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Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 7125	Posted - 2015.02.12 08:56:00 - [1] - Quote Is the final proposal going to deviate wildly from the current spreadsheet and extrapolated EHP? if it will be similar I can start breaking down the Infantry AV for tentative looks at TTK. My intent is to keep my infantry AV DPS numbers at least 250-300 DPS lower than equivalent heavy turrets Before skill adds. I think they should be the brute force, "second choice" for busting HAVs while remaining able to do so. I don't think that AV will need much in the way of damage increase overall. Shot rate might need to go up for the PLC and forge. I'm at a loss as to what to recommend for the swarms though. Trying to figure that conundrum literally gives me a headache. AV
DUST Fiend Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 15709	Posted - 2015.02.12 09:23:00 - [2] - Quote Hard to estimate when we have no idea where dropships will be. Buff AV but leave DS survivability as is and you will place the final nail in our flying coffins My YouTube (currently inactive) Homeless Dropship Enthusiast "See You Space Cowboy"
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 7125	Posted - 2015.02.12 09:33:00 - [3] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Hard to estimate when we have no idea where dropships will be. Buff AV but leave DS survivability as is and you will place the final nail in our flying coffins Only if swarms got buffed. And LOL hell no. AV
DUST Fiend Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 15709	Posted - 2015.02.12 09:37:00 - [4] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Hard to estimate when we have no idea where dropships will be. Buff AV but leave DS survivability as is and you will place the final nail in our flying coffins Only if swarms got buffed. And LOL hell no. A forge damage or RoF boost would be troublesome as well without buffing hp to compensate. Forge vs DS is possibly the most balanced part of this game right now. PLC RoF buff is totally acceptable though My YouTube (currently inactive) Homeless Dropship Enthusiast "See You Space Cowboy"
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 7126	Posted - 2015.02.12 10:40:00 - [5] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Hard to estimate when we have no idea where dropships will be. Buff AV but leave DS survivability as is and you will place the final nail in our flying coffins Only if swarms got buffed. And LOL hell no. A forge damage or RoF boost would be troublesome as well without buffing hp to compensate. Forge vs DS is possibly the most balanced part of this game right now. PLC RoF buff is totally acceptable though I would honestly like to know all of the malleable attributes on swarm launchers so I can fiddle with the numbers. I guarantee there's got to be a way to tweak the damn things to allow them to be deadly at range without making yhem OP that would allow an increase to ADS agility. As it stands a standard dropship can just chug out of range because it takes 4 forge shots to drop (except the breach) and even the breach fires too slow to land the killshot. But Agility should be an ADS primary defense. Fortunately the forge requires the operator to be able to aim. No I don't think dropships should be easy mode. But I do believe pilot maneuvering skill should be the primary defense, not the EHP buffer. AV
DUST Fiend Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 15714	Posted - 2015.02.12 11:12:00 - [6] - Quote As an AV Incubus pilot I always forget about standard dropships since any and all fits melts well before they can retreat or retaliate. Honestly, if a standard ship is being useful -at all- then its taking two players, so you should be happy with the free WP and knowledge that youre preventing two players from doing anything meaningful. Standard ships should stay sluggish and tanky, giving them more mobility wll just step on the feet of ADS and buff suicide dropships in the process. My YouTube (currently inactive) Homeless Dropship Enthusiast "See You Space Cowboy"
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 7128	Posted - 2015.02.12 11:15:00 - [7] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: As an AV Incubus pilot I always forget about standard dropships since any and all fits melts well before they can retreat or retaliate. Honestly, if a standard ship is being useful -at all- then its taking two players, so you should be happy with the free WP and knowledge that youre preventing two players from doing anything meaningful. Standard ships should stay sluggish and tanky, giving them more mobility wll just step on the feet of ADS and buff suicide dropships in the process. I'm actually not horribly annoyed by myron/grimsnes tankiness. And bluntly we might get a better setup for dropships soon if the HAV thing works in practice rather than theory. But I'm not going to say that not touching AV is fair if HAVs can't be effectively hit. That simple. If dropships have to be adjusted up a bit yo compensate so be it. AV
DUST Fiend Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 15714	Posted - 2015.02.12 11:28:00 - [8] - Quote I hear you loud and clear man, and I agree. Simply offering up a word of caution to keep my beloved babies from fading into obscurity. My YouTube (currently inactive) Homeless Dropship Enthusiast "See You Space Cowboy"
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 7128	Posted - 2015.02.12 12:42:00 - [9] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: I hear you loud and clear man, and I agree. Simply offering up a word of caution to keep my beloved babies from fading into obscurity. Na. Believe it or not I keep all of them in mind, including the impact of pointing AV weapons at infantry. AV
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 2901	Posted - 2015.02.12 12:54:00 - [10] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Hard to estimate when we have no idea where dropships will be. Buff AV but leave DS survivability as is and you will place the final nail in our flying coffins Buff AV again? Why? Are you insane? Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 7128	Posted - 2015.02.12 12:57:00 - [11] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Hard to estimate when we have no idea where dropships will be. Buff AV but leave DS survivability as is and you will place the final nail in our flying coffins Buff AV again? Why? Are you insane? Oh look. I see you haven't bothered to read. Again. AV
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 2901	Posted - 2015.02.12 13:05:00 - [12] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: I don't think that AV will need much in the way of damage increase overall. Shot rate might need to go up for the PLC and forge. AV doesn't need any more buffs. They've had enough. Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 2901	Posted - 2015.02.12 13:06:00 - [13] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Hard to estimate when we have no idea where dropships will be. Buff AV but leave DS survivability as is and you will place the final nail in our flying coffins Buff AV again? Why? Are you insane? Oh look. I see you haven't bothered to read. Again. I read them all the time. Sorry not sorry it doesn't take me half an hour to compose a reply to two sentences. Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
DarthJT5 Random Gunz RISE of LEGION 266	Posted - 2015.02.12 16:13:00 - [14] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Hard to estimate when we have no idea where dropships will be. Buff AV but leave DS survivability as is and you will place the final nail in our flying coffins Buff AV again? Why? Are you insane? Oh look. I see you haven't bothered to read. Again. I read them all the time. Sorry not sorry it doesn't take me half an hour to compose a reply to two sentences. V/AV is more balanced right now than its been for a long time. If tanks are buffed, as will AV Spkr, get it through your thick skull. The problem is as stated above, how will it affect other vehicles/they will also need a buff. You complaining about how your always getting destroyed by AV makes me wonder if you lie about all your experience as a tanker. Ever since 1.7 dropped, I can count on one hand the amount of times I've been Solo'ed by AV, ADS or Tank (not counting when I was trololoing or getting knocked into a building while flying). When I'm actually trying, I almost never die to a solo AV'er. How do you constantly get destroyed by them? Dedicated Shield Tanking vet since Open Beta. Up and coming Python pilot. The awnser is always XT missiles....
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 7137	Posted - 2015.02.12 16:25:00 - [15] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: I don't think that AV will need much in the way of damage increase overall. Shot rate might need to go up for the PLC and forge. AV doesn't need any more buffs. They've had enough. remind me when the last buffs were for the forge gun again? You know, after the 20%-33% rate of fire nerf, reduction in alpha, increaser in fitting cost, and increase of refire delay? when was the last buff again? And for the PLC, besides the shot travelling fast enough to actually hit a mountain before geological forces put the mountain behind cover. What buffs were there for that? I appear to have missed a few buffs that I should be grateful for. AV
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4929	Posted - 2015.02.12 16:28:00 - [16] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: I hear you loud and clear man, and I agree. Simply offering up a word of caution to keep my beloved babies from fading into obscurity. I always get a little spooked when a reasonable Dropship Pilot appears. It's like seeing Bigfoot or a Unicorn. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 7137	Posted - 2015.02.12 16:29:00 - [17] - Quote If you say one word about swarms, which I NEVER USE and DO NOT ADVOCATE BUFFING You have proven you are incapable of reading. Or engaging in debate. Or logic. AV
D3LTA Blitzkrieg II 0uter.Heaven 210	Posted - 2015.02.12 17:05:00 - [18] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Hard to estimate when we have no idea where dropships will be. Buff AV but leave DS survivability as is and you will place the final nail in our flying coffins Buff AV again? Why? Are you insane? no he just never played PC. lol >.<
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4930	Posted - 2015.02.12 17:18:00 - [19] - Quote Actually these swarms would really struggle against dropships since their transverse velocity would likely exceed the turn radius of the missiles, particularly if they're moving perpendicular to the firing vector. The dropship would either have to be fairy stationary, or the swarmer would have to lead the target and try to get the dropship to fly into the effective tracking cone of the missiles. If I had the current missile velocity and turning radius data, I could do a comparison illustration to show exactly what this would do. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
DUST Fiend Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 15724	Posted - 2015.02.12 18:44:00 - [20] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: I hear you loud and clear man, and I agree. Simply offering up a word of caution to keep my beloved babies from fading into obscurity. I always get a little spooked when a reasonable Dropship Pilot appears. It's like seeing Bigfoot or a Unicorn. Theres only like 10 of us who are actual, dedicated pilots haha. And for the record, im a unicorn with big feet. My YouTube (currently inactive) Homeless Dropship Enthusiast "See You Space Cowboy"
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4933	Posted - 2015.02.12 18:48:00 - [21] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: I hear you loud and clear man, and I agree. Simply offering up a word of caution to keep my beloved babies from fading into obscurity. I always get a little spooked when a reasonable Dropship Pilot appears. It's like seeing Bigfoot or a Unicorn. Theres only like 10 of us who are actual, dedicated pilots haha. And for the record, im a unicorn with big feet. Petition for 'Fiend' Gallente Dropship. It's hot pink with a giant horn on the front that can be used to spear other dropships in midair. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command 981	Posted - 2015.02.12 18:56:00 - [22] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: No I don't think dropships should be easy mode. But I do believe pilot maneuvering skill should be the primary defense, not the EHP buffer. I'm really in love with how ADS are nimble and need to maneuver out of mortal danger while NDS are slow and need to not get into mortal danger in the first place, but have a higher threshold for the term "mortal". Seriously, I love my flying truck. Also, I'm loving AV versus (N)DS right now. I'm very afraid that this will change with the HAV bring back initiative.
raven glow Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 2	Posted - 2015.02.12 19:01:00 - [23] - Quote amarr laser cannon? hybrid of laser and plasma cannon? very quick to overheat laser with 200+ damage per second? or maybe less. HA YES JUST YES me and you, hint hint :D CLICK ME
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 7141	Posted - 2015.02.12 19:06:00 - [24] - Quote raven glow wrote: amarr laser cannon? hybrid of laser and plasma cannon? very quick to overheat laser with 200+ damage per second? or maybe less. 200 dps won't even break vehicle shield regen AV
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4933	Posted - 2015.02.12 19:10:00 - [25] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: raven glow wrote: amarr laser cannon? hybrid of laser and plasma cannon? very quick to overheat laser with 200+ damage per second? or maybe less. 200 dps won't even break vehicle shield regen I still think they should impliment a Scrambler rifle-like weapon that's charge shot only, fires like an Assault Forge Gun but it's a light weapon and EM profile. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
DUST Fiend Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 15729	Posted - 2015.02.12 19:12:00 - [26] - Quote https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2491488#post2491488 My old idea for anti shield AV My YouTube (currently inactive) Homeless Dropship Enthusiast "See You Space Cowboy"
duster 35000 Algintal Core Gallente Federation 246	Posted - 2015.02.12 19:13:00 - [27] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: I hear you loud and clear man, and I agree. Simply offering up a word of caution to keep my beloved babies from fading into obscurity. I always get a little spooked when a reasonable Dropship Pilot appears. It's like seeing Bigfoot or a Unicorn. No, it's like seeing an alicorn aka a pegacorn. Choo Choo
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 7142	Posted - 2015.02.12 19:22:00 - [28] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: raven glow wrote: amarr laser cannon? hybrid of laser and plasma cannon? very quick to overheat laser with 200+ damage per second? or maybe less. 200 dps won't even break vehicle shield regen I still think they should impliment a Scrambler rifle-like weapon that's charge shot only, fires like an Assault Forge Gun but it's a light weapon and EM profile. I actually statted this. 1 second charge time, 1.5 second long burst of laser. Scrambler rifle asset. AV
Mary Sedillo Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 370	Posted - 2015.02.12 19:43:00 - [29] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Hard to estimate when we have no idea where dropships will be. Buff AV but leave DS survivability as is and you will place the final nail in our flying coffins Only if swarms got buffed. And LOL hell no. Buff any AV and you will harm Dropships. You do realize forge guns hurt them really badly as is, right?
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 7145	Posted - 2015.02.12 19:55:00 - [30] - Quote Mary Sedillo wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Hard to estimate when we have no idea where dropships will be. Buff AV but leave DS survivability as is and you will place the final nail in our flying coffins Only if swarms got buffed. And LOL hell no. Buff any AV and you will harm Dropships. You do realize forge guns hurt them really badly as is, right? I amn also aware that dropships actually have a good chance of not getting popped to forge guns. all the buffs in the world won't help if you can't aim. and I'm not recommending a damage buff at all. AV

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