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Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 7125	Posted - 2015.02.12 08:56:00 - [1] - Quote Is the final proposal going to deviate wildly from the current spreadsheet and extrapolated EHP? if it will be similar I can start breaking down the Infantry AV for tentative looks at TTK. My intent is to keep my infantry AV DPS numbers at least 250-300 DPS lower than equivalent heavy turrets Before skill adds. I think they should be the brute force, "second choice" for busting HAVs while remaining able to do so. I don't think that AV will need much in the way of damage increase overall. Shot rate might need to go up for the PLC and forge. I'm at a loss as to what to recommend for the swarms though. Trying to figure that conundrum literally gives me a headache. AV
DUST Fiend Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 15709	Posted - 2015.02.12 09:23:00 - [2] - Quote Hard to estimate when we have no idea where dropships will be. Buff AV but leave DS survivability as is and you will place the final nail in our flying coffins My YouTube (currently inactive) Homeless Dropship Enthusiast "See You Space Cowboy"
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 7125	Posted - 2015.02.12 09:33:00 - [3] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Hard to estimate when we have no idea where dropships will be. Buff AV but leave DS survivability as is and you will place the final nail in our flying coffins Only if swarms got buffed. And LOL hell no. AV
DUST Fiend Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 15709	Posted - 2015.02.12 09:37:00 - [4] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Hard to estimate when we have no idea where dropships will be. Buff AV but leave DS survivability as is and you will place the final nail in our flying coffins Only if swarms got buffed. And LOL hell no. A forge damage or RoF boost would be troublesome as well without buffing hp to compensate. Forge vs DS is possibly the most balanced part of this game right now. PLC RoF buff is totally acceptable though My YouTube (currently inactive) Homeless Dropship Enthusiast "See You Space Cowboy"
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 7126	Posted - 2015.02.12 10:40:00 - [5] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Hard to estimate when we have no idea where dropships will be. Buff AV but leave DS survivability as is and you will place the final nail in our flying coffins Only if swarms got buffed. And LOL hell no. A forge damage or RoF boost would be troublesome as well without buffing hp to compensate. Forge vs DS is possibly the most balanced part of this game right now. PLC RoF buff is totally acceptable though I would honestly like to know all of the malleable attributes on swarm launchers so I can fiddle with the numbers. I guarantee there's got to be a way to tweak the damn things to allow them to be deadly at range without making yhem OP that would allow an increase to ADS agility. As it stands a standard dropship can just chug out of range because it takes 4 forge shots to drop (except the breach) and even the breach fires too slow to land the killshot. But Agility should be an ADS primary defense. Fortunately the forge requires the operator to be able to aim. No I don't think dropships should be easy mode. But I do believe pilot maneuvering skill should be the primary defense, not the EHP buffer. AV
DUST Fiend Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 15714	Posted - 2015.02.12 11:12:00 - [6] - Quote As an AV Incubus pilot I always forget about standard dropships since any and all fits melts well before they can retreat or retaliate. Honestly, if a standard ship is being useful -at all- then its taking two players, so you should be happy with the free WP and knowledge that youre preventing two players from doing anything meaningful. Standard ships should stay sluggish and tanky, giving them more mobility wll just step on the feet of ADS and buff suicide dropships in the process. My YouTube (currently inactive) Homeless Dropship Enthusiast "See You Space Cowboy"
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 7128	Posted - 2015.02.12 11:15:00 - [7] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: As an AV Incubus pilot I always forget about standard dropships since any and all fits melts well before they can retreat or retaliate. Honestly, if a standard ship is being useful -at all- then its taking two players, so you should be happy with the free WP and knowledge that youre preventing two players from doing anything meaningful. Standard ships should stay sluggish and tanky, giving them more mobility wll just step on the feet of ADS and buff suicide dropships in the process. I'm actually not horribly annoyed by myron/grimsnes tankiness. And bluntly we might get a better setup for dropships soon if the HAV thing works in practice rather than theory. But I'm not going to say that not touching AV is fair if HAVs can't be effectively hit. That simple. If dropships have to be adjusted up a bit yo compensate so be it. AV
DUST Fiend Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 15714	Posted - 2015.02.12 11:28:00 - [8] - Quote I hear you loud and clear man, and I agree. Simply offering up a word of caution to keep my beloved babies from fading into obscurity. My YouTube (currently inactive) Homeless Dropship Enthusiast "See You Space Cowboy"
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 7128	Posted - 2015.02.12 12:42:00 - [9] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: I hear you loud and clear man, and I agree. Simply offering up a word of caution to keep my beloved babies from fading into obscurity. Na. Believe it or not I keep all of them in mind, including the impact of pointing AV weapons at infantry. AV
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 2901	Posted - 2015.02.12 12:54:00 - [10] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Hard to estimate when we have no idea where dropships will be. Buff AV but leave DS survivability as is and you will place the final nail in our flying coffins Buff AV again? Why? Are you insane? Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 7128	Posted - 2015.02.12 12:57:00 - [11] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Hard to estimate when we have no idea where dropships will be. Buff AV but leave DS survivability as is and you will place the final nail in our flying coffins Buff AV again? Why? Are you insane? Oh look. I see you haven't bothered to read. Again. AV
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 2901	Posted - 2015.02.12 13:05:00 - [12] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: I don't think that AV will need much in the way of damage increase overall. Shot rate might need to go up for the PLC and forge. AV doesn't need any more buffs. They've had enough. Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 2901	Posted - 2015.02.12 13:06:00 - [13] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Hard to estimate when we have no idea where dropships will be. Buff AV but leave DS survivability as is and you will place the final nail in our flying coffins Buff AV again? Why? Are you insane? Oh look. I see you haven't bothered to read. Again. I read them all the time. Sorry not sorry it doesn't take me half an hour to compose a reply to two sentences. Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
DarthJT5 Random Gunz RISE of LEGION 266	Posted - 2015.02.12 16:13:00 - [14] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Hard to estimate when we have no idea where dropships will be. Buff AV but leave DS survivability as is and you will place the final nail in our flying coffins Buff AV again? Why? Are you insane? Oh look. I see you haven't bothered to read. Again. I read them all the time. Sorry not sorry it doesn't take me half an hour to compose a reply to two sentences. V/AV is more balanced right now than its been for a long time. If tanks are buffed, as will AV Spkr, get it through your thick skull. The problem is as stated above, how will it affect other vehicles/they will also need a buff. You complaining about how your always getting destroyed by AV makes me wonder if you lie about all your experience as a tanker. Ever since 1.7 dropped, I can count on one hand the amount of times I've been Solo'ed by AV, ADS or Tank (not counting when I was trololoing or getting knocked into a building while flying). When I'm actually trying, I almost never die to a solo AV'er. How do you constantly get destroyed by them? Dedicated Shield Tanking vet since Open Beta. Up and coming Python pilot. The awnser is always XT missiles....
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 7137	Posted - 2015.02.12 16:25:00 - [15] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: I don't think that AV will need much in the way of damage increase overall. Shot rate might need to go up for the PLC and forge. AV doesn't need any more buffs. They've had enough. remind me when the last buffs were for the forge gun again? You know, after the 20%-33% rate of fire nerf, reduction in alpha, increaser in fitting cost, and increase of refire delay? when was the last buff again? And for the PLC, besides the shot travelling fast enough to actually hit a mountain before geological forces put the mountain behind cover. What buffs were there for that? I appear to have missed a few buffs that I should be grateful for. AV
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4929	Posted - 2015.02.12 16:28:00 - [16] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: I hear you loud and clear man, and I agree. Simply offering up a word of caution to keep my beloved babies from fading into obscurity. I always get a little spooked when a reasonable Dropship Pilot appears. It's like seeing Bigfoot or a Unicorn. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 7137	Posted - 2015.02.12 16:29:00 - [17] - Quote If you say one word about swarms, which I NEVER USE and DO NOT ADVOCATE BUFFING You have proven you are incapable of reading. Or engaging in debate. Or logic. AV
D3LTA Blitzkrieg II 0uter.Heaven 210	Posted - 2015.02.12 17:05:00 - [18] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Hard to estimate when we have no idea where dropships will be. Buff AV but leave DS survivability as is and you will place the final nail in our flying coffins Buff AV again? Why? Are you insane? no he just never played PC. lol >.<
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4930	Posted - 2015.02.12 17:18:00 - [19] - Quote Actually these swarms would really struggle against dropships since their transverse velocity would likely exceed the turn radius of the missiles, particularly if they're moving perpendicular to the firing vector. The dropship would either have to be fairy stationary, or the swarmer would have to lead the target and try to get the dropship to fly into the effective tracking cone of the missiles. If I had the current missile velocity and turning radius data, I could do a comparison illustration to show exactly what this would do. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
DUST Fiend Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 15724	Posted - 2015.02.12 18:44:00 - [20] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: I hear you loud and clear man, and I agree. Simply offering up a word of caution to keep my beloved babies from fading into obscurity. I always get a little spooked when a reasonable Dropship Pilot appears. It's like seeing Bigfoot or a Unicorn. Theres only like 10 of us who are actual, dedicated pilots haha. And for the record, im a unicorn with big feet. My YouTube (currently inactive) Homeless Dropship Enthusiast "See You Space Cowboy"
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4933	Posted - 2015.02.12 18:48:00 - [21] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: I hear you loud and clear man, and I agree. Simply offering up a word of caution to keep my beloved babies from fading into obscurity. I always get a little spooked when a reasonable Dropship Pilot appears. It's like seeing Bigfoot or a Unicorn. Theres only like 10 of us who are actual, dedicated pilots haha. And for the record, im a unicorn with big feet. Petition for 'Fiend' Gallente Dropship. It's hot pink with a giant horn on the front that can be used to spear other dropships in midair. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command 981	Posted - 2015.02.12 18:56:00 - [22] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: No I don't think dropships should be easy mode. But I do believe pilot maneuvering skill should be the primary defense, not the EHP buffer. I'm really in love with how ADS are nimble and need to maneuver out of mortal danger while NDS are slow and need to not get into mortal danger in the first place, but have a higher threshold for the term "mortal". Seriously, I love my flying truck. Also, I'm loving AV versus (N)DS right now. I'm very afraid that this will change with the HAV bring back initiative.
raven glow Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 2	Posted - 2015.02.12 19:01:00 - [23] - Quote amarr laser cannon? hybrid of laser and plasma cannon? very quick to overheat laser with 200+ damage per second? or maybe less. HA YES JUST YES me and you, hint hint :D CLICK ME
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 7141	Posted - 2015.02.12 19:06:00 - [24] - Quote raven glow wrote: amarr laser cannon? hybrid of laser and plasma cannon? very quick to overheat laser with 200+ damage per second? or maybe less. 200 dps won't even break vehicle shield regen AV
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4933	Posted - 2015.02.12 19:10:00 - [25] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: raven glow wrote: amarr laser cannon? hybrid of laser and plasma cannon? very quick to overheat laser with 200+ damage per second? or maybe less. 200 dps won't even break vehicle shield regen I still think they should impliment a Scrambler rifle-like weapon that's charge shot only, fires like an Assault Forge Gun but it's a light weapon and EM profile. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
DUST Fiend Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 15729	Posted - 2015.02.12 19:12:00 - [26] - Quote https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2491488#post2491488 My old idea for anti shield AV My YouTube (currently inactive) Homeless Dropship Enthusiast "See You Space Cowboy"
duster 35000 Algintal Core Gallente Federation 246	Posted - 2015.02.12 19:13:00 - [27] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: I hear you loud and clear man, and I agree. Simply offering up a word of caution to keep my beloved babies from fading into obscurity. I always get a little spooked when a reasonable Dropship Pilot appears. It's like seeing Bigfoot or a Unicorn. No, it's like seeing an alicorn aka a pegacorn. Choo Choo
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 7142	Posted - 2015.02.12 19:22:00 - [28] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: raven glow wrote: amarr laser cannon? hybrid of laser and plasma cannon? very quick to overheat laser with 200+ damage per second? or maybe less. 200 dps won't even break vehicle shield regen I still think they should impliment a Scrambler rifle-like weapon that's charge shot only, fires like an Assault Forge Gun but it's a light weapon and EM profile. I actually statted this. 1 second charge time, 1.5 second long burst of laser. Scrambler rifle asset. AV
Mary Sedillo Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 370	Posted - 2015.02.12 19:43:00 - [29] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Hard to estimate when we have no idea where dropships will be. Buff AV but leave DS survivability as is and you will place the final nail in our flying coffins Only if swarms got buffed. And LOL hell no. Buff any AV and you will harm Dropships. You do realize forge guns hurt them really badly as is, right?
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 7145	Posted - 2015.02.12 19:55:00 - [30] - Quote Mary Sedillo wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Hard to estimate when we have no idea where dropships will be. Buff AV but leave DS survivability as is and you will place the final nail in our flying coffins Only if swarms got buffed. And LOL hell no. Buff any AV and you will harm Dropships. You do realize forge guns hurt them really badly as is, right? I amn also aware that dropships actually have a good chance of not getting popped to forge guns. all the buffs in the world won't help if you can't aim. and I'm not recommending a damage buff at all. AV
Mary Sedillo Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 373	Posted - 2015.02.12 19:59:00 - [31] - Quote But you did bro. You want faster firing speed, which is a DPS buff.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 7146	Posted - 2015.02.12 20:03:00 - [32] - Quote Mary Sedillo wrote: But you did bro. You want faster firing speed, which is a DPS buff. damage. alpha. rate of fire is not the same and bluntly Im not worried about shooting dropships. HAVs hold a much higher priority. AV
DUST Fiend Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 15729	Posted - 2015.02.12 20:05:00 - [33] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Mary Sedillo wrote: But you did bro. You want faster firing speed, which is a DPS buff. damage. alpha. rate of fire is not the same Not the same no, but it will most certainly effect dropships as well, giving skilled forge gunners an upper hand in what is typically a very balanced engagement. My YouTube (currently inactive) Homeless Dropship Enthusiast "See You Space Cowboy"
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 7148	Posted - 2015.02.12 20:29:00 - [34] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Mary Sedillo wrote: But you did bro. You want faster firing speed, which is a DPS buff. damage. alpha. rate of fire is not the same Not the same no, but it will most certainly effect dropships as well, giving skilled forge gunners an upper hand in what is typically a very balanced engagement. in your opinion. AV
Godin Thekiller The Corporate Raiders 2875	Posted - 2015.02.12 21:32:00 - [35] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: I hear you loud and clear man, and I agree. Simply offering up a word of caution to keep my beloved babies from fading into obscurity. I always get a little spooked when a reasonable Dropship Pilot appears. It's like seeing Bigfoot or a Unicorn. Theres only like 10 of us who are actual, dedicated pilots haha. And for the record, im a unicorn with big feet. Petition for 'Fiend' Gallente Dropship. It's hot pink with a giant horn on the front that can be used to spear other dropships in midair. I want a Rainbow colored FRDS from this click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
DUST Fiend Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 15732	Posted - 2015.02.12 21:33:00 - [36] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Mary Sedillo wrote: But you did bro. You want faster firing speed, which is a DPS buff. damage. alpha. rate of fire is not the same Not the same no, but it will most certainly effect dropships as well, giving skilled forge gunners an upper hand in what is typically a very balanced engagement. in your opinion. How would being able to land more shots before they can retreat from your range or find cover NOT lend an advantage to the forge gun? How is that in any way an opinion? O.o My YouTube (currently inactive) Homeless Dropship Enthusiast "See You Space Cowboy"
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 7156	Posted - 2015.02.12 21:37:00 - [37] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Mary Sedillo wrote: But you did bro. You want faster firing speed, which is a DPS buff. damage. alpha. rate of fire is not the same Not the same no, but it will most certainly effect dropships as well, giving skilled forge gunners an upper hand in what is typically a very balanced engagement. in your opinion. How would being able to land more shots before they can retreat from your range or find cover NOT lend an advantage to the forge gun? How is that in any way an opinion? O.o losing a short amount of time isn't going to render dropships unusable. Nevermind there are two variants of forge guns that are pretty much useless except against the clinically stupid. the breach only lands a second hit vs. an idiot, and the standard model forge has the worst Alpha and worst DPS. The PLC is in desperate need of an RoF buff. AV
DUST Fiend Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 15732	Posted - 2015.02.12 21:44:00 - [38] - Quote I have never, and will never say that PLC doesnt need some more love, at least not till it receives it. Breach forge gun, ive always felt that was the team variant, as its borderline OP when paired with any other form of AV from basic on up. IAFG is beautifully balanced, period. Standard forge guns could maybe use a small RoF and or damage buff, but I mean, even if they got it, who would use it? Buff either too much and the IAFG loses its appeal, dont buff it enough and its a pointless buff. Im inclined to say Forge guns are the most balanced weapon in this game, and only "suffer" because theyre weak vs shield, and we have virtually no anti shield AV still. My YouTube (currently inactive) Homeless Dropship Enthusiast "See You Space Cowboy"
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 7156	Posted - 2015.02.12 21:50:00 - [39] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: I have never, and will never say that PLC doesnt need some more love, at least not till it receives it. Breach forge gun, ive always felt that was the team variant, as its borderline OP when paired with any other form of AV from basic on up. IAFG is beautifully balanced, period. Standard forge guns could maybe use a small RoF and or damage buff, but I mean, even if they got it, who would use it? Buff either too much and the IAFG loses its appeal, dont buff it enough and its a pointless buff. Im inclined to say Forge guns are the most balanced weapon in this game, and only "suffer" because theyre weak vs shield, and we have virtually no anti shield AV still. I'm recommending the alpha on the forge fill the gap between the assault and breach. I want to revert the RoF nerf, because with the EHP Rattati's giving HAVs it's going to need it. Me and pokey have already run EHP numbers on the various chassis. As it stands a maxed HAV (madrugar) versus a matched max HP assault forge will require a reload solo. I'm surprisingly comfortable with this. but the RoF will have to go up slightly. There's a lot going on with those hulls. I'm recommending that the PLC reload time drop sharply. charge time slightly. I know you don't like it, but rather than bitching about it, why aren't you looking at offering suggestions for doing the tier setup for the ADS and standard dropships? It's not like they've been thrown off the table. And honestly I don't think the ADS is quite at the agility range it needs to be, but I dunno how to buff that. but i've found that rattati is remarkably receptive to suggestions backed with numbers. I have found him remarkably unreceptive to people trying to tell him that tanks shouldn't be fixed, or that AV shouldn't be a credible threat. The HAv drivers absolutely insist it should take several infantry gunners to kill an HAV regardless of the fact that all of the proposed numbers are several HUNDRED DPS behind the proposed HAV RAILGUN which runs at a bit over 850 DPS. so most of the resistance is purely reactionary. You have a valid beef, because dropships are going to need something in response, but standing out going "no dude, you can't do that" isn't likely to get much traction. AV
DUST Fiend Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 15732	Posted - 2015.02.12 21:55:00 - [40] - Quote I domt involve myself with numbers because thats not my strong point, and im not going to offer up discussion on that topic until its actually on the table, in front of me. Too many empty promises to put my faith there again. And im not "bitching", im simply concerned that AV will be buffed to handle new tanks, while every single other vehicle gets brutally raped into the ground until CCP gets around to giving them a similar overhaul. My YouTube (currently inactive) Homeless Dropship Enthusiast "See You Space Cowboy"
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 7157	Posted - 2015.02.12 21:59:00 - [41] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: I domt involve myself with numbers because thats not my strong point, and im not going to offer up discussion on that topic until its actually on the table, in front of me. Too many empty promises to put my faith there again. And im not "bitching", im simply concerned that AV will be buffed to handle new tanks, while every single other vehicle gets brutally raped into the ground until CCP gets around to giving them a similar overhaul. LAVs need a nerf so that you have to fit them to survive a damn forge strike. Dropships can be fixed by doing something about the swarm turn radii and speeding them up while slowing down the refire a bit. But that would require increasing the range. Increasing the overall agility of dropships (maybe making the controls a bit less clunky would help) would reduce the chance of catastrophic speedball forge shots. I'm not JUST working or brainstorming on the AV side here. There's a lot more I'm considering at all times when I'm making recommendations to rattati. AV
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4945	Posted - 2015.02.12 22:02:00 - [42] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: I domt involve myself with numbers because thats not my strong point, and im not going to offer up discussion on that topic until its actually on the table, in front of me. Too many empty promises to put my faith there again. And im not "bitching", im simply concerned that AV will be buffed to handle new tanks, while every single other vehicle gets brutally raped into the ground until CCP gets around to giving them a similar overhaul. Hopefully Dropships will be next (LAvs after that, they're less critical) but your concerns are valid. Sadly I will not be able to do ** for dropships as I don't use them like...at all, so try to remain engaged in the conversation when it comes. You're probably one of the most knowledgeable dropship pilots I know, so please be involved so it gets done right. "That little st Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 7157	Posted - 2015.02.12 22:06:00 - [43] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: I domt involve myself with numbers because thats not my strong point, and im not going to offer up discussion on that topic until its actually on the table, in front of me. Too many empty promises to put my faith there again. And im not "bitching", im simply concerned that AV will be buffed to handle new tanks, while every single other vehicle gets brutally raped into the ground until CCP gets around to giving them a similar overhaul. Hopefully Dropships will be next (LAvs after that, they're less critical) but your concerns are valid. Sadly I will not be able to do **** for dropships as I don't use them like...at all, so try to remain engaged in the conversation when it comes. You're probably one of the most knowledgeable dropship pilots I know, so please be involved so it gets done right. plus it goes like this Fiend, you have input, we are number nerds. Coincidence? Just don't lunatic out on us like spkr4thedead. AV
DUST Fiend Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 15734	Posted - 2015.02.12 22:17:00 - [44] - Quote To be perfectly honest, im actually sort of against increasing dropship mobility, as ill probably never die to forge guns ever again haha. I would love to see 2% resitance to armor (incubus) and 2% resistance to shield (python) added per level to their respective skills, without applying stacking penalty. That change alone could go a long way towards keeping dropships balanced in the face of new AV. Im also STRONGLY in favor of weaker hulls with more fitting capacity for ALL vehicles, since vehicle fits are painfully boring right now. Ive gotten most of my knee jerk reactions out over the past few years, but I AM manic depressive bi polar so I am prone to lashing out emotionally before ive had time to properly test and consider things. Which is why im PUMPED to be able to record again soon, it really helps with analysis. My YouTube (currently inactive) Homeless Dropship Enthusiast "See You Space Cowboy"
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 7157	Posted - 2015.02.12 22:20:00 - [45] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: To be perfectly honest, im actually sort of against increasing dropship mobility, as ill probably never die to forge guns ever again haha. I would love to see 2% resitance to armor (incubus) and 2% resistance to shield (python) added per level to their respective skills, without applying stacking penalty. That change alone could go a long way towards keeping dropships balanced in the face of new AV. Im also STRONGLY in favor of weaker hulls with more fitting capacity for ALL vehicles, since vehicle fits are painfully boring right now. Ive gotten most of my knee jerk reactions out over the past few years, but I AM manic depressive bi polar so I am prone to lashing out emotionally before ive had time to properly test and consider things. Which is why im PUMPED to be able to record again soon, it really helps with analysis. so whenever AV changes come down the pipe, you and I can go rounds to see just where the failure points are. It's what I did with a couple other people when I did my original ADS analysis. And when i did a few other things. Also if Rattati brings in more heavy weapons I want to trade out the splash resistance for racial weapon bonusing. AV
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4946	Posted - 2015.02.12 22:20:00 - [46] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: To be perfectly honest, im actually sort of against increasing dropship mobility, as ill probably never die to forge guns ever again haha. I would love to see 2% resitance to armor (incubus) and 2% resistance to shield (python) added per level to their respective skills, without applying stacking penalty. That change alone could go a long way towards keeping dropships balanced in the face of new AV. Im also STRONGLY in favor of weaker hulls with more fitting capacity for ALL vehicles, since vehicle fits are painfully boring right now. Ive gotten most of my knee jerk reactions out over the past few years, but I AM manic depressive bi polar so I am prone to lashing out emotionally before ive had time to properly test and consider things. Which is why im PUMPED to be able to record again soon, it really helps with analysis. Again I know very little about the operation of dropships, so I can only speak conceptually here. Do you feel the slot progression for Dropships and ADS is in a good place? It always looked right to me on paper, but do you feel it's fine from your personal experience? "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
DUST Fiend Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 15734	Posted - 2015.02.12 22:25:00 - [47] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: To be perfectly honest, im actually sort of against increasing dropship mobility, as ill probably never die to forge guns ever again haha. I would love to see 2% resitance to armor (incubus) and 2% resistance to shield (python) added per level to their respective skills, without applying stacking penalty. That change alone could go a long way towards keeping dropships balanced in the face of new AV. Im also STRONGLY in favor of weaker hulls with more fitting capacity for ALL vehicles, since vehicle fits are painfully boring right now. Ive gotten most of my knee jerk reactions out over the past few years, but I AM manic depressive bi polar so I am prone to lashing out emotionally before ive had time to properly test and consider things. Which is why im PUMPED to be able to record again soon, it really helps with analysis. Again I know very little about the operation of dropships, so I can only speak conceptually here. Do you feel the slot progression for Dropships and ADS is in a good place? It always looked right to me on paper, but do you feel it's fine from your personal experience? I just want a 2/3 - 3/2 layout with either a slight buff to hp, or my propsed native resists. That could open up so many fitting options for us. My YouTube (currently inactive) Homeless Dropship Enthusiast "See You Space Cowboy"
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 7157	Posted - 2015.02.12 22:27:00 - [48] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: To be perfectly honest, im actually sort of against increasing dropship mobility, as ill probably never die to forge guns ever again haha. I would love to see 2% resitance to armor (incubus) and 2% resistance to shield (python) added per level to their respective skills, without applying stacking penalty. That change alone could go a long way towards keeping dropships balanced in the face of new AV. Im also STRONGLY in favor of weaker hulls with more fitting capacity for ALL vehicles, since vehicle fits are painfully boring right now. Ive gotten most of my knee jerk reactions out over the past few years, but I AM manic depressive bi polar so I am prone to lashing out emotionally before ive had time to properly test and consider things. Which is why im PUMPED to be able to record again soon, it really helps with analysis. Again I know very little about the operation of dropships, so I can only speak conceptually here. Do you feel the slot progression for Dropships and ADS is in a good place? It always looked right to me on paper, but do you feel it's fine from your personal experience? I just want a 2/3 - 3/2 layout with either a slight buff to hp, or my propsed native resists. That could open up so many fitting options for us. with the idea of not making ADS as bricky as HAVs, what kinds of fitting options could help? AV
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4947	Posted - 2015.02.12 22:29:00 - [49] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: I just want a 2/3 - 3/2 layout with either a slight buff to hp, or my propsed native resists. That could open up so many fitting options for us. I assume you're speaking specifically about ADS in that case? Assault Dropship Amarr: 1/4 Caldari: 4/1 Minmatar: 3/2 Gallente: 2/3 I take it the extra off-rack slot is for utility? What about your thoughts on the normal dropship? Also I think if the ADS needs more eHP to deal with changes to AV that's fine, but I'd avoid attaching a damage resistance to the ADS...I think it gives the wrong idea about how it is supposed to perform. In the case of the ADS I'd rather tie it to the HP directly. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
DarthJT5 Random Gunz RISE of LEGION 266	Posted - 2015.02.12 22:33:00 - [50] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: I just want a 2/3 - 3/2 layout with either a slight buff to hp, or my propsed native resists. That could open up so many fitting options for us. I assume you're speaking specifically about ADS in that case? Assault Dropship Amarr: 1/4 Caldari: 4/1 Minmatar: 3/2 Gallente: 2/3 I take it the extra off-rack slot is for utility? What about your thoughts on the normal dropship? Also I think if the ADS needs more eHP to deal with changes to AV that's fine, but I'd avoid attaching a damage resistance to the ADS...I think it gives the wrong idea about how it is supposed to perform. In the case of the ADS I'd rather tie it to the HP directly. That layout looks good to me. A lot better than what it is currently obviously. Somebody needs to start an ADS overhaul thread (I'm looking at you guys) Dedicated Shield Tanking vet since Open Beta. Up and coming Python pilot. The awnser is always XT missiles....
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4947	Posted - 2015.02.12 22:35:00 - [51] - Quote Well don't look at me too much. I can speak on concepts and roles but when it comes to fitting/flying the damn things.... "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
DUST Fiend Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 15734	Posted - 2015.02.12 22:35:00 - [52] - Quote The additional slot is mainly for utility in my mind. We could use some more v3hicle modules to spice thingd up, but im not sure what off the top of my head. ABs being mandatoryon armor ships is my main reason for wanting a second high slot. The second low slot on shield ships could yield much higher tank for shield ships, allowing them to forgo the AB if they choose to go that route. Standard ships I really dont care about. They should be throw away garbage only good as elevators, suicide bombs, and training tools. If any ship should stand and deliver and transport, its logistics ships. My YouTube (currently inactive) Homeless Dropship Enthusiast "See You Space Cowboy"
Godin Thekiller The Corporate Raiders 2875	Posted - 2015.02.12 22:39:00 - [53] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: I domt involve myself with numbers because thats not my strong point, and im not going to offer up discussion on that topic until its actually on the table, in front of me. Too many empty promises to put my faith there again. And im not "bitching", im simply concerned that AV will be buffed to handle new tanks, while every single other vehicle gets brutally raped into the ground until CCP gets around to giving them a similar overhaul. LAVs need a nerf so that you have to fit them to survive a damn forge strike. Dropships can be fixed by doing something about the swarm turn radii and speeding them up while slowing down the refire a bit. But that would require increasing the range. Increasing the overall agility of dropships (maybe making the controls a bit less clunky would help) would reduce the chance of catastrophic speedball forge shots. I'm not JUST working or brainstorming on the AV side here. There's a lot more I'm considering at all times when I'm making recommendations to rattati. Agreed I'd also suggest lowering their turning angles, and if they could not let them stop and turn anymore, so dodging could be a thing. It's really more of ingame movement than controls. And You've so far done well. click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4949	Posted - 2015.02.12 22:41:00 - [54] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: The additional slot is mainly for utility in my mind. We could use some more v3hicle modules to spice thingd up, but im not sure what off the top of my head. ABs being mandatoryon armor ships is my main reason for wanting a second high slot. The second low slot on shield ships could yield much higher tank for shield ships, allowing them to forgo the AB if they choose to go that route. Standard ships I really dont care about. They should be throw away garbage only good as elevators, suicide bombs, and training tools. If any ship should stand and deliver and transport, its logistics ships. Well taking a page from what Ratatti came up with for HAVs I kinda see it as follows Standard Dropship Role: Tranport Ship Average Defenses Average Speed 1 Pilot 4 Passengers 2 Gunners Most Slots Generalist ship, mostly used to ferry people around/provide light fire support. Assault Dropship Role: Heavy Fire Support Below Average Defenses High Speed 1 Pilot 2 Passengers 2 Gunners 1 Pilot Turret Less Slots (Same as Logistics) Quick zippy ship, hard to catch, capable of good dps. Bonuses to small turrets. Logistics Dropship Role: Troop Deployment/Vehicle Support Above Average Defenses Low Speed 1 Pilot 4 Passengers 0 Gunners Less Slots (Same as Assault) Difficult to kill but lacks any offensive ability. Built in Mobile CRU. Bonuses for damage resistance. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
DUST Fiend Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 15737	Posted - 2015.02.12 22:45:00 - [55] - Quote I feel like logistics ships should have the most fitting options, but only if logistics modules are added. Or, if you must have them have less fitting options, make it so they can ONLY fit infantry repair turrets, while giving the LDS a strong, medium range vehicle rep, and a high base tank, along with a built in MCRU that spawns faster as you level up the LDS skill My YouTube (currently inactive) Homeless Dropship Enthusiast "See You Space Cowboy"
DarthJT5 Random Gunz RISE of LEGION 266	Posted - 2015.02.12 23:05:00 - [56] - Quote I've started a dedicated thread for it guys, if yall wanna start it there. Dedicated Shield Tanking vet since Open Beta. Up and coming Python pilot. The awnser is always XT missiles....
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4951	Posted - 2015.02.12 23:07:00 - [57] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: I feel like logistics ships should have the most fitting options, but only if logistics modules are added. Or, if you must have them have less fitting options, make it so they can ONLY fit infantry repair turrets, while giving the LDS a strong, medium range vehicle rep, and a high base tank, along with a built in MCRU that spawns faster as you level up the LDS skill Well for one I want to completely do away with the "Lock onto Infantry to Rep them" mechanic for vehicles, I feel its far too clunky. My plan was to propose an infantry rep module which acted like a repping nanohive, producing a bubble around the vehicle which repped any friendlies inside. Lock on repping modules would be reserved for repping vehicles. That being said, we need to decide where vehicle repair modules land. Ideally, I'd like to see Light vehicles focus on infantry, repping them, spawning them, ect. Whereas Medium vehicles would be focused on 'larger' functions, repping vehicles for example. Don't get me wrong, I dont have an issue with a LAV repping vehicles or an MAV repping infantry, but I think the specific bonuses should be unique to each vehicle 'frame' size. So should LAVs and Dropships be able to fit vehicle reppers? Totally. Should get get awesome bonuses specific to repping vehicles? Probably not. But thats just my personal view at the moment "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Godin Thekiller The Corporate Raiders 2875	Posted - 2015.02.12 23:29:00 - [58] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: The additional slot is mainly for utility in my mind. We could use some more vehicle modules to spice things up, but im not sure what off the top of my head. ABs being mandatory on armor ships is my main reason for wanting a second high slot. The second low slot on shield ships could yield much higher tank, allowing them to forgo the AB if they choose to go that route. Standard ships I really dont care about. They should be throw away garbage only good as elevators, suicide bombs, and training tools. If any ship should stand and deliver and transport, its logistics ships. That's unnecessary. Making it to where things aren't useful, and others simply overall better than others is broken. There simply would be no point in having those things, just like the T I Dropsuits, so they might as well not exist. Do I think that LDS's should be better at getting a lot of people on point? yes. Do I think that they should be simply better DS's than the STD DS? No. It shouldn't be able to attack as well as the regular one (a small turret nerf and being in general slower would help with that), and it won't be as fast to deploy, so it would be made more for getting there, and staying in the general area for a decent period of time. Same for ADS, but in the opposite direction. Should it be a better DS's? No. It wouldn't have the passenger count needed to do full squad drops, but be able to protect whatever they drop and any nearby people, or at least give them enough time to get into cover before having to fly off due to getting another pickup request, or getting shot at by AV or another vehicle, such as a HAV. click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Godin Thekiller The Corporate Raiders 2875	Posted - 2015.02.12 23:32:00 - [59] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: I feel like logistics ships should have the most fitting options, but only if logistics modules are added. Or, if you must have them have less fitting options, make it so they can ONLY fit infantry repair turrets, while giving the LDS a strong, medium range vehicle rep, and a high base tank, along with a built in MCRU that spawns faster as you level up the LDS skill Well for one I want to completely do away with the "Lock onto Infantry to Rep them" mechanic for vehicles, I feel its far too clunky. My plan was to propose an infantry rep module which acted like a repping nanohive, producing a bubble around the vehicle which repped any friendlies inside. Lock on repping modules would be reserved for repping vehicles. That being said, we need to decide where vehicle repair modules land. Ideally, I'd like to see Light vehicles focus on infantry, repping them, spawning them, ect. Whereas Medium vehicles would be focused on 'larger' functions, repping vehicles for example. Don't get me wrong, I dont have an issue with a LAV repping vehicles or an MAV repping infantry, but I think the specific bonuses should be unique to each vehicle 'frame' size. So should LAVs and Dropships be able to fit vehicle reppers? Totally. Should get get awesome bonuses specific to repping vehicles? Probably not. But thats just my personal view at the moment Vehicles can't really follow infantry to infantry specific locations, so it'd only be useful in more open locations where the vehicle can move, in which would be kind pointless to have a single vehicle type do such a task, or at least too specific. click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
DUST Fiend Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 15740	Posted - 2015.02.13 03:43:00 - [60] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: I feel like logistics ships should have the most fitting options, but only if logistics modules are added. Or, if you must have them have less fitting options, make it so they can ONLY fit infantry repair turrets, while giving the LDS a strong, medium range vehicle rep, and a high base tank, along with a built in MCRU that spawns faster as you level up the LDS skill Well for one I want to completely do away with the "Lock onto Infantry to Rep them" mechanic for vehicles, I feel its far too clunky. My plan was to propose an infantry rep module which acted like a repping nanohive, producing a bubble around the vehicle which repped any friendlies inside. Lock on repping modules would be reserved for repping vehicles. That being said, we need to decide where vehicle repair modules land. Ideally, I'd like to see Light vehicles focus on infantry, repping them, spawning them, ect. Whereas Medium vehicles would be focused on 'larger' functions, repping vehicles for example. Don't get me wrong, I dont have an issue with a LAV repping vehicles or an MAV repping infantry, but I think the specific bonuses should be unique to each vehicle 'frame' size. So should LAVs and Dropships be able to fit vehicle reppers? Totally. Should get get awesome bonuses specific to repping vehicles? Probably not. But thats just my personal view at the moment I think repairer turrets should be targetted, exactly like a remote repairer. Its a turret that can only be fit to logistics vehicles, and logistics vehicles cannot fit standard turrets. They have charge, which is basically ammo, so they require trips to the depot like everyone else LAVs could have a burst radius heal on a cooldown, while dropships would have a targetted remote vehicle rep. I see logistics ships as mobile staging platforms capable of bolstering their troops through powerful heals and mobile spawns. My YouTube (currently inactive) Homeless Dropship Enthusiast "See You Space Cowboy"
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4954	Posted - 2015.02.13 03:49:00 - [61] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: I feel like logistics ships should have the most fitting options, but only if logistics modules are added. Or, if you must have them have less fitting options, make it so they can ONLY fit infantry repair turrets, while giving the LDS a strong, medium range vehicle rep, and a high base tank, along with a built in MCRU that spawns faster as you level up the LDS skill Well for one I want to completely do away with the "Lock onto Infantry to Rep them" mechanic for vehicles, I feel its far too clunky. My plan was to propose an infantry rep module which acted like a repping nanohive, producing a bubble around the vehicle which repped any friendlies inside. Lock on repping modules would be reserved for repping vehicles. That being said, we need to decide where vehicle repair modules land. Ideally, I'd like to see Light vehicles focus on infantry, repping them, spawning them, ect. Whereas Medium vehicles would be focused on 'larger' functions, repping vehicles for example. Don't get me wrong, I dont have an issue with a LAV repping vehicles or an MAV repping infantry, but I think the specific bonuses should be unique to each vehicle 'frame' size. So should LAVs and Dropships be able to fit vehicle reppers? Totally. Should get get awesome bonuses specific to repping vehicles? Probably not. But thats just my personal view at the moment Vehicles can't really follow infantry to infantry specific locations, so it'd only be useful in more open locations where the vehicle can move, in which would be kind pointless to have a single vehicle type do such a task, or at least too specific. You haven't seen the places I can jam an LAV in "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 17152	Posted - 2015.02.13 03:59:00 - [62] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Godin Thekiller wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: I feel like logistics ships should have the most fitting options, but only if logistics modules are added. Or, if you must have them have less fitting options, make it so they can ONLY fit infantry repair turrets, while giving the LDS a strong, medium range vehicle rep, and a high base tank, along with a built in MCRU that spawns faster as you level up the LDS skill Well for one I want to completely do away with the "Lock onto Infantry to Rep them" mechanic for vehicles, I feel its far too clunky. My plan was to propose an infantry rep module which acted like a repping nanohive, producing a bubble around the vehicle which repped any friendlies inside. Lock on repping modules would be reserved for repping vehicles. That being said, we need to decide where vehicle repair modules land. Ideally, I'd like to see Light vehicles focus on infantry, repping them, spawning them, ect. Whereas Medium vehicles would be focused on 'larger' functions, repping vehicles for example. Don't get me wrong, I dont have an issue with a LAV repping vehicles or an MAV repping infantry, but I think the specific bonuses should be unique to each vehicle 'frame' size. So should LAVs and Dropships be able to fit vehicle reppers? Totally. Should get get awesome bonuses specific to repping vehicles? Probably not. But thats just my personal view at the moment Vehicles can't really follow infantry to infantry specific locations, so it'd only be useful in more open locations where the vehicle can move, in which would be kind pointless to have a single vehicle type do such a task, or at least too specific. You haven't seen the places I can jam an LAV in On no...... I used to have a buddy nightchild77...... the stunts he could pull off with an LAV defied conventional wisdom. "This is the Usumgal boy, the exalted dragon, wreathed in the fires of heaven. He is a true symbol of God's majesty."
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 7178	Posted - 2015.02.13 18:29:00 - [63] - Quote Amendment: the IAFG is 370 DPS behind the proposed proto rail turret for baseline (before skills/mods) DPS with the numbers I am poking at. It's still a viable weapon for HAVs. This should be interesting. AV
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4957	Posted - 2015.02.13 18:39:00 - [64] - Quote True Adamance wrote: On no...... I used to have a buddy nightchild77...... the stunts he could pull off with an LAV defied conventional wisdom. I mean ** even easy stunts like jumping an LAV into the silo objective of Gallente research lab, get it into the objective area and flip on a wide-rage infantry repper? Makes my toes curl. "That little st Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net

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