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Roy Ventus
Axis of Chaos
1874
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Posted - 2015.02.11 20:44:00 -
[31] - Quote
The commonly used strategies don't incorporate dropships into them as their main tool for transport.
Why? Because dropships can be easily targeted if in the air for too long.
I have seen them get put into good use for transportation. Using them as a rapid transport in a very large battlefield, using their mCRU to hover over the enemies objectives in an industrial area and drop mercs like paratroopers, and moving mercs from place to place if they want the height advantage of a rooftop.
But yes, again, dropships are highly vulnerable. People will snipe mercs out of their if they can. They're not viable in PC, currently, and they're not that much more viable in battle.
Now if a commander can make use of a dropship, props to him, but the general belief still applies.
"There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all."
http://royventus.tumblr.com
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CELESTA AUNGM
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
410
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Posted - 2015.02.11 21:21:00 -
[32] - Quote
I guess I haven't contributed to the endorsement of Dropships in a long time, so I'll do so once, here.
All of the posts I've read here ARE valid, but only because I think they come mostly from the type of matches and maps we are populating every day: Pub matches and FW sessions.
It was always necessary to have these kinds of matches in the gameGǪ but some of the players realized a few years ago that the MAPS in these matches are not the size maps that require vehicles as potent as the far-shooting HAV, the Auto-controlled Gun Installation, and the unlimited-travel Dropship.
Because of the small SIZE of the maps you are playing most of Dust on, adjustments had to be made like removing the brain from all Gun-Installations (GǪthey used to be SO darn good at targeting anything that moved, that no one COULD move around the map--it was humans vs the robot Installations!),GǪ and whole new version of vehicles were introduced, like the ADS version of what was meant to be simply a "huey" style squad-insertion and fire-support Dropship.
We can argue about "what CCP intended these vehicles to be used for", but we couldn't argue that SOME of the vehicles and entities just CAN'T be effectively used in goldfish-size maps (and by now are easily substituted by mini-items like uplinks, etc.).
These vehicles and Installation-types can only shine in a full-size map, a PC map, and through PC fights, you realize what a Dropship is needed for.
The immediate problems a full-size PC map presents for a 16-person team trying to hack and hold Null points, and the STRATEGIES that knowledgeable PC commanders rely on (that almost never get used in tiny Pub or FW matches because they just aren't needed), make a Dropship the ONLY gadget of value in distributing squads or key specialists where and very-quickly WHEN the fight starts changing up on you.
PC is heavily about detecting, assessing what part of the map is experiencing "what", and "solving" by having to quickly pick-up specialists who are not where they need to be, babysitting possible objectives in order to gamble on where the enemy seems to be likely to try fooling you, and then redistributing when the fight "changes up on you" again.
It is really NOT like Pub matches at all, from a commander's decision-making POV. Uplinks and similar gear cannot give his squad the fluid "swap this, change of plans, get half my squad over to Alpha to insert from 3 points simultaneously" solutions.
And believe it or not, I'm only talking THIRD-hand from things that were explained to me when a few PC players tried to educate me on how most PC squaders would (NO-JOKE) kill to have good, disciplined, DS drivers (please) be a guest in their matches (cocky barnstorming and ADS work that many DS "pilots" brag and display are not what PC folks are interested in at all).
Only a handful of the vehicles made for Dust are TOO BIG-FUNCTIONED to be bouncing around in a Pub-sized map, and can't do their real stuff without a real Dust landscape. Dropships are in that group. 
Universe of good wishes for the 49, especially CCP Eterne...
No story can have life without writers and publishers.
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Leadfoot10
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
3186
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Posted - 2015.02.11 21:24:00 -
[33] - Quote
Kuruld Sengar wrote:tal mrak-thanl wrote:It would be nice to see rooftop uplinks get challenged a bit. Imagine if we had tactical flux strikes that do a max 300 or 500 ehp and only require 50wp, coupled with an increase in uplink scan profile when placed above a certain elevation. That might change some game dynamics for the better. The whole point of the 300wp flux strike was to do exactly that. The only issue is that it doesn't go through walls and floors like the major does.
That, and it's even harder to hit uplinks than it is a bunny hopping min scout with a plasma cannon.
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Derpty Derp
Dead Man's Game
755
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Posted - 2015.02.12 00:08:00 -
[34] - Quote
Buwaro Draemon wrote:All it takes is one guy with good Uplinks and to get to the roof first. Drops the Uplinks and your whole squad and team can spawn there.
All of that renders the DS useless except for a quick elevator trip.
But those glitched rooftop uplinks do make good parking spaces for a dropship >__> |
Lahut K'mar
Royal Uhlans
Amarr Empire
32
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Posted - 2015.02.12 00:35:00 -
[35] - Quote
Thumb Green wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Dropships have never had their primary purpose be troop transport, as it is not needed in this game. Those who tell you otherwise simply dont grasp what the game actually is, and instead grasp at concept. Troop transport in DUST is a side effect of dropships, not their primary purpose. I suppose that makes sense why CCP would attach this to DS' "Able to traverse the battlefield virtually unimpeded, the dropship is the perfect way to get infantry into and out of hotspots".
Uplinks = holding a position (domination)
Derpships = attacking/reclaiming positions (skirmish)
Horrifying? That's a strange way to spell "romantic".
FIX THE WHEEL, CCP!
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Zindorak
Nyain Chan
1704
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Posted - 2015.02.12 01:42:00 -
[36] - Quote
So what.
Dropships can be useful for pressuring the point. Slap on 2 XT's and farm assists. Uplinks are fine as is
Pokemon master and Tekken Lord
Give me da iskiez
Gk0 Scout yay :)
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Imp Smash
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
675
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Posted - 2015.02.12 01:54:00 -
[37] - Quote
I wish dropships were more useful outside of rocket spam too. Uplinks need a serious re-working. |
Mex-0
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
377
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Posted - 2015.02.12 03:02:00 -
[38] - Quote
Buwaro Draemon wrote:Mex-0 wrote:Have you ever actually played a match of dom on the tower map?
1st ones to the roof = winners Troop transport. Not "Use a MLT DS to get to this rooftop, abandon it and soam my uplinks all over this place" That's a shameful use of a DS.
What do you mean?
Death taxiing from an incubus?
Squishing people with a grimsnes?
Not exactly efficient for troop transport. However, they are pretty good for getting to high places quick, and taking out snipers.
Gû¼+¦GòÉGòÉn¦ñ
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Buwaro Draemon
WarRavens
Capital Punishment.
995
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Posted - 2015.02.12 03:48:00 -
[39] - Quote
Mex-0 wrote:Buwaro Draemon wrote:Mex-0 wrote:Have you ever actually played a match of dom on the tower map?
1st ones to the roof = winners Troop transport. Not "Use a MLT DS to get to this rooftop, abandon it and soam my uplinks all over this place" That's a shameful use of a DS. What do you mean? Death taxiing from an incubus? Squishing people with a grimsnes? Not exactly efficient for troop transport. However, they are pretty good for getting to high places quick, and taking out snipers.
That's the point. The only use DS ever use is to get to high places. Which you don't even need a dedicated DS pilot to do so because anyone can do it.
The thing about this post is that, dedicated DS pilots will never see their day as long as Uplinks continue to function the way they do now.
Back in beta they could be used to gun a point, but the ADS does a WAY better job at it than the DS.
Even when maps fully open, people will most likely use LAVs because LAVs have speed, can use terrain to evade AV, and can run over people or people can pull up to said AV and gun it down. After the LAV reaches its location point with the Uplink crew, all they have to do is spam it across the whole field, more troops spawn in those links and they drop down more, after they die they can switch to another suit (that has the bandwith to support said links of course) and keep on going.
A DS is much faster than an LAV, yes, but they are easily targetable for any and all AV. You can argue that he can fly high up and have the passangers do a halo jump, but the enemy is obviously smart (assuming that maps will be fully open only for PC) and they will wait for the guys on the bottom and just finish them off.
DS in general have no good role. And even more so that thanks to the easy use of uplinks, the job of troop transportation is rendered useless to them.
As long as uplinks keep being easy use, with no penalty for choosing to spawn in them (like the description says), a DS will never be used properly other than quick and easy access to rooftops.
Changes to Damage mods!
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Buwaro Draemon
WarRavens
Capital Punishment.
995
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Posted - 2015.02.12 03:51:00 -
[40] - Quote
Imp Smash wrote:I wish dropships were more useful outside of rocket spam too. Uplinks need a serious re-working.
Me too. Uplinks should either have a height limit on which they can be deployed or come with some sort of penalty.
I say height limit because even with the flux OB's people will still go to rooftops, spam uplinks and have their entire team reign grenades, REs, Mass Drivers and Heavies from the rooftops.
I have tried it. They just get another MLT DS and fly up there again to drop more Uplinks, or someone saved up an uplink for that same reason and the hive is back up in less than 30 seconds.
A penalty would work more like your passive SP not applying for X ammount of seconds, and having the Amarr Logi skill affect that.
Changes to Damage mods!
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Imp Smash
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
675
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Posted - 2015.02.12 04:17:00 -
[41] - Quote
Well, to be fair, Buwaro, the new tactical 300 WP strike is severely underused. It's pretty good for stopping uplinks up high. If it had a bit better hit detection or went through things like walls and structures (looking at you Null Cannon tower) smart SLs would be clearing Uplinks way faster and more efficiently than DSes often. |
Buwaro Draemon
WarRavens
Capital Punishment.
995
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Posted - 2015.02.12 04:33:00 -
[42] - Quote
Imp Smash wrote:Well, to be fair, Buwaro, the new tactical 300 WP strike is severely underused. It's pretty good for stopping uplinks up high. If it had a bit better hit detection or went through things like walls and structures (looking at you Null Cannon tower) smart SLs would be clearing Uplinks way faster and more efficiently than DSes often.
I always use the 300WP when I am with my good friend squad. Since, I really do not care if my squad achieves the 5000WP to use the major one.
As long as we have enough WP to drop minor fluxes and probably even a major flux one. I am happy.
PS: I run with 1 or 2 people when I am squadded up.
Changes to Damage mods!
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