You move faster, that's the excuse you're going with, right then.

I asked why he was so close that he had no evasion chance against even AV grenades.

Logi, yes, ADS/DS: no.

Then logis should have to take out each others' equipment.

Making vehicles > AV makes Anti-Vehicle weapons useless in a competitive match, as nobody will field the 8-10 players it would require under your model to deal with them as opposed to a vehicle. While I'm 99% sure this is your intention, it is not CCP's and as such won't happen.

The Dropship being designed for troop transport and close aerial support doesn't change the fact that the Anti-Vehicle weapons are designed for the sole purpose of Destroying vehicles and given said design should and will destroy you if you refuse to (or cannot) take evasive action.

While rendering is certainly an issue, stealth is not. AVer's engagements are limited to wherever the Pilot flies/drives, which allows them to always dictate the scenario in which a fight happens. Given this advantage, I believe that not being able to see where an AVer is before they fire is fair. Though while antedotal, I will note that I have yet (since 1.10) to expireence a Swarm that was both invisible and inaudible and rarely one of the formers.

Being disadvantaged when fighting an AVer in CQC is fair, as at Long Range the AVer can either not attack you (PLC and SL) or their shots will be easy to avoid (FG and SL). I have a test to take in a few minutes so I won't go in-depth until later but an AV rig costs also costs ~20mil SP. When it comes to ISK the investment is similar due to the fact that while the AVer's base price is low, they're far more likely to die than the PIlot.

Having been on boths ideas of the equation I sympathise with the rendering issues - I've seen you fly and my flying skills are terrible compared to you since I haven't done it in a long while.... but the age-old fallacies that were trumpeted back in 1.7 in the eternal Vehicles vs AV debate shouldn't really make a comeback.

As has been said before, ISK cost vs power is never really a good equaliser, and at this moment, while we are on limited 16 vs 16 engagements, as soon as you start saying 1 vehicle should equal 2 or more AV users, this becomes a force multiplier, and thus, automatically gives a numerical advantage to the side fielding the force multiplier - think back to the 1.7 tankbushes and tank spam... it was really game destroying.

This being said, I don't have the solution either. I feel the solution will be a combination of improved rendering and larger team sizes and of course, different maps, but on different hardware, probably in a different game altogether. :)

Intelligence is OP.

I'm going to tell you the truth in the nicest, most polite way I possibly can.

Dust 514 is an infantry assault game...the meat of this game is close quarter combat one on one. Its hacking, running and defending that goes down.

Dropships are ridiculous because they sit on the objectives (in domination) and just rain down kills. There is no risk involved in that UNLESS someone pulls out a proto swarm launcher loaded down with damage mods which is rare that they can or will pull one out without being nova knifed, shotgunned or AR'd in the nuts!

The same with tanks...you all park your tanks in red lines and shoot. You snipe people. You take no risk at all. You just sit back, kick back and shoot your cannon off.

So me? I run both Gal Logi gk.0 and Min Assault mk.0 fittings to vehicle hunt!

I see you in the redline? I'll sneak up on you with remote explosives. I wait for a second to get the timing you are shooting your cannon off....you shoot, I drop RE...a lot of times, I can drop them on you and you have no idea due to the sound of you shooting your tank's weapon....I get at least 4 on you, but I try for 6 or all 10 just in case you're beefy....but then I hit you with the AV grenade and as soon as it goes off, you takers FREAK THE EFF OUT!!I But as soon as you start to move I'll trigger the 4 re's (boundless) first and then hope they annihilate you but if not I'll try to switch as fast as I can to F/45's or plain 'ol RE's and try to get you. KABOOM!

You're dead.

I get you more than you get me....period.

But if I can't get you...because sometimes you get me or sometimes you're just too slick for my tricks to work...I'll hit you with the swarm launcher and try to finish you off before you kill me!

I'm a tank hunter..tell your friends.

But back to the topic at hand...you vehicle guys whine and moan and b!tch and p!ss and cry and boo hoo and the whambulance's sirens are blazing like we're all at the discotech because you HIDE behind your tanks and dropships. You don't transport troops, you rain down artillery on folks noggins and then think you're a beast at 66/0 at the end of the match because you blew up all the CRU's, flux'd anywhere you saw uplinks and camped the only spawn point left.

So yeah...increase AV! You should have the same danger from us with you driving your vehicles as we have from you because you're driving your vehicles!

I want to sneeze on your tanky whip and it blow up son!

The fact that a single AV user can put several vehicle users out of action is just ridiculous