DUST Search - LAV - Add slots & PG/CPU, but reduce HP

Slave of MORTE wrote:

The-Errorist wrote:

Slave of MORTE wrote:

Spkr4theDead wrote:

The-Errorist wrote:

Trello card to vote on.

LAVs need to lose around 1k HP, gain 2 slots, and some more PG/CPU to fill those slots. This would make cheap through-away LAVs killable by AV grenades and give legitimate LAV drivers a bit more potential fitting options.

1000 HP!!

What? Do you use vehicles at all for anything?

How many shield ext would my saga 2 have to fit to survive 1 nade if it lost 1000.shields

No just no terrible idea lavs barely have any hp to begin with

Yes 1k less base HP, but 2 more slots and PG/CPU to bring that HP back up. A basic packed AV grenade does 1042.5 damage per grenade and 2 of those should kill an unfit LAV. If you want to survive one AV grenade, you will need to add 0 extra shield extenders, and if you want to survive 2, fill 1 of the available 5 slots with an HP mod.

Over all this would nerf higher end lavs which are already
Subpar fitting 2 complex light shield ext doesn't give you a thousand extra hp..and it cuts you recovery ...

Not to mention increases the isk cost of higher end lava which are already not worth speccing

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
The-Errorist 1004	Posted - 2015.02.06 23:43:00 - [1] - Quote Trello card to vote on. LAVs need to lose around 1k HP, gain 2 slots, and some more PG/CPU to fill those slots. This would make cheap through-away LAVs killable by AV grenades and give legitimate LAV drivers a bit more potential fitting options. My Basic medium frames, logis & Commandos Racial tanks
Kaeru Nayiri Ready to Play 471	Posted - 2015.02.06 23:46:00 - [2] - Quote The-Errorist wrote: Trello card to vote on. LAVs need to lose around 1k HP, gain 2 slots, and some more PG/CPU to fill those slots. This would make cheap through-away LAVs killable by AV grenades and give legitimate LAV drivers a bit more potential fitting options. I really like this idea ! Many people complain you can't kill an LAV with av grenades, and it adds insult to injury that they are the "throw away" variety. This could actually deepen the strategy of how LAVs are fitted while also making the infinite BPO variety more vulnerable.
Godin Thekiller The Corporate Raiders 2833	Posted - 2015.02.07 00:01:00 - [3] - Quote Agreed, and also, this click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 9500	Posted - 2015.02.07 00:16:00 - [4] - Quote Ammo Resupply module while we are at it please . Improved Small Blaster Mechanics too Also, some front shield protection for blaster gunners while we are at it. In fact, why they hell are LAVs convertibles in the first place? *Vote 'Keshava' for the new Gallente HAV name!* *~Democracy will win!*

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 16856	Posted - 2015.02.07 03:17:00 - [5] - Quote good idea, I have looked into some form of protection for gunners but it's not easy at all "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Lynn Beck Delta Vanguard 6 2364	Posted - 2015.02.07 06:29:00 - [6] - Quote The-Errorist wrote: Trello card to vote on. LAVs need to lose around 1k HP, gain 2 slots, and some more PG/CPU to fill those slots. This would make cheap through-away LAVs killable by AV grenades and give legitimate LAV drivers a bit more potential fitting options. Can we specify which race is getting this? 1200/900 is pitifully small for a Caldari LAV comparitively, and if we dropped it by 1k it'd be even more pitiful. Unless of course, we want these things to have 25/15 HP with 5/4 slots and enough PG/CPU to fit their own tank/support mods... Gallente LAVs have something like 900/2700 right? General John Ripper -BAM! I'm Emeril Lagasse. This message was approved by the 'Nobody Loved You' Foundation'
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 6994	Posted - 2015.02.07 07:07:00 - [7] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: good idea, I have looked into some form of protection for gunners but it's not easy at all Can you add a resist to the turret that applies only to the gunner? Even 10% general resist ( representing the turret blocking fire) would be solid. AV
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 6994	Posted - 2015.02.07 07:08:00 - [8] - Quote Lynn Beck wrote: The-Errorist wrote: Trello card to vote on. LAVs need to lose around 1k HP, gain 2 slots, and some more PG/CPU to fill those slots. This would make cheap through-away LAVs killable by AV grenades and give legitimate LAV drivers a bit more potential fitting options. Can we specify which race is getting this? 1200/900 is pitifully small for a Caldari LAV comparitively, and if we dropped it by 1k it'd be even more pitiful. Unless of course, we want these things to have 25/15 HP with 5/4 slots and enough PG/CPU to fit their own tank/support mods... Gallente LAVs have something like 900/2700 right? Less. AV
137H4RGIC Pure Evil. Negative-Feedback 488	Posted - 2015.02.07 07:19:00 - [9] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: good idea, I have looked into some form of protection for gunners but it's not easy at all Well, me and my buddy stopped gun/LAVing because he couldn't see my healthbar anymore and he couldn't react fast enough if I was being hit. I would be busy focusing on my target trying to shoot him down, and by the time I realized I was at 50% it was already too late, we'd speed off and they'd get that last hit. TL;DR: Bring back visible health bars of the gunner for the driver to see. I want to help DUST become a better experience for everyone. Let's work together! 137H4RGIC - Running for CPM2 (SOONGäó)
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 9503	Posted - 2015.02.07 07:53:00 - [10] - Quote 137H4RGIC wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: good idea, I have looked into some form of protection for gunners but it's not easy at all Well, me and my buddy stopped gun/LAVing because he couldn't see my healthbar anymore and he couldn't react fast enough if I was being hit. I would be busy focusing on my target trying to shoot him down, and by the time I realized I was at 50% it was already too late, we'd speed off and they'd get that last hit. TL;DR: Bring back visible health bars of the gunner for the driver to see. Yes, Visible Health Bars helped a ton when LAV gunning. *~New Eden's #1 Gallente Arm's Dealer*

The-Errorist 1010	Posted - 2015.02.07 08:12:00 - [11] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Lynn Beck wrote: The-Errorist wrote: Trello card to vote on. LAVs need to lose around 1k HP, gain 2 slots, and some more PG/CPU to fill those slots. This would make cheap through-away LAVs killable by AV grenades and give legitimate LAV drivers a bit more potential fitting options. Can we specify which race is getting this? 1200/900 is pitifully small for a Caldari LAV comparitively, and if we dropped it by 1k it'd be even more pitiful. Unless of course, we want these things to have 25/15 HP with 5/4 slots and enough PG/CPU to fit their own tank/support mods... Gallente LAVs have something like 900/2700 right? Less. Gallente LAVs, Balachs and Methanas, currently have 650 shields and 2450 armor. What I want is for Gal LAVs to have 2k total HP and for Cal LAVs to have 1.8k HP. My Basic medium frames, logis & Commandos Racial tanks
The-Errorist 1010	Posted - 2015.02.07 08:26:00 - [12] - Quote 137H4RGIC wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: good idea, I have looked into some form of protection for gunners but it's not easy at all Well, me and my buddy stopped gun/LAVing because he couldn't see my healthbar anymore and he couldn't react fast enough if I was being hit. I would be busy focusing on my target trying to shoot him down, and by the time I realized I was at 50% it was already too late, we'd speed off and they'd get that last hit. TL;DR: Bring back visible health bars of the gunner for the driver to see. Made that into a thread and here's the trello card for it. My Basic medium frames, logis & Commandos Racial tanks
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 818	Posted - 2015.02.07 08:42:00 - [13] - Quote The-Errorist wrote: Trello card to vote on. LAVs need to lose around 1k HP, gain 2 slots, and some more PG/CPU to fill those slots. This would make cheap through-away LAVs killable by AV grenades and give legitimate LAV drivers a bit more potential fitting options. Both LAVs unfit are killable by 2 AV grenades. LAI DAI packed AV 'nades: 1563.75 damage X 2 = 3,127.50 Methana: 3100 ehp Saga: 2100 eHP Just saying. I don't mind making survivable LAVs out of reach of players who haven't specced into vehicle modules. It will certainly be the final death of the Jihad Jeep. But if LAV gunners get extra protection, then my dropship gunners should get extra protection as well. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
The-Errorist 1012	Posted - 2015.02.07 08:49:00 - [14] - Quote Tesfa Alem wrote: The-Errorist wrote: Trello card to vote on. LAVs need to lose around 1k HP, gain 2 slots, and some more PG/CPU to fill those slots. This would make cheap through-away LAVs killable by AV grenades and give legitimate LAV drivers a bit more potential fitting options. Both LAVs unfit are killable by 2 AV grenades. LAI DAI packed AV 'nades: 1563.75 damage X 2 = 3,127.50 Methana: 3100 ehp Saga: 2100 eHP Just saying. I don't mind making survivable LAVs out of reach of players who haven't specced into vehicle modules. It will certainly be the final death of the Jihad Jeep. But if LAV gunners get extra protection, then my dropship gunners should get extra protection as well. And make std and adv av grenades useful for something. My Basic medium frames, logis & Commandos Racial tanks
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 818	Posted - 2015.02.07 10:23:00 - [15] - Quote The-Errorist wrote: Tesfa Alem wrote: The-Errorist wrote: Trello card to vote on. LAVs need to lose around 1k HP, gain 2 slots, and some more PG/CPU to fill those slots. This would make cheap through-away LAVs killable by AV grenades and give legitimate LAV drivers a bit more potential fitting options. Both LAVs unfit are killable by 2 AV grenades. LAI DAI packed AV 'nades: 1563.75 damage X 2 = 3,127.50 Methana: 3100 ehp Saga: 2100 eHP Just saying. I don't mind making survivable LAVs out of reach of players who haven't specced into vehicle modules. It will certainly be the final death of the Jihad Jeep. But if LAV gunners get extra protection, then my dropship gunners should get extra protection as well. And make std and adv av grenades useful for something. They are usefull. Two ADVEXO 11 will kill sagas, and with the bonus to armor hurt methanas very badly. You cant solo a LAV by chucking 2 std grenade at it, but in a AV fit, one shot and a couple tosses that LAV is toast. If you're in a heavy suit two AV nades and a few rounds will finish off any LAV. What i like is forcing people to fit a LAV properly, and giving them some value. Thats how i take care of all of my LAVs. Looking at the new base tank hull stats, current LAVs will have comparable base eHP. LAV ehp naturally has to go down as well. But i also don't think unfit LAVs are in and of themselves an issue. There's no real way to tell if that murder taxi is fit or not, they move too erratically to spend time id'ing the eHP, the way you can by pointing a weapon at a tank or a dropship. They also tend to blow up very fast. all, in all, i'm behind what you are proposing. Just talking the finer points as to what needs to be adressed more. Encourage a good fit, keep LAV in line with new tank proposals, but not have it be balanced vs AV grenades. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 6995	Posted - 2015.02.07 10:45:00 - [16] - Quote I have no personal problem with an LAV taking a couple proto forge hits. But the caveat is I believe firmly that this should require the investment of SP and fittings. The free LAV that takes proto AV in the face to deliver an idiot with an HMG successfully is a bit much. Unless said idiot was actually a mad genius who properly invests ISK/SP into modules so his murder taxi can live up to the name. AV
itssnowingon me The Exemplars RISE of LEGION 8	Posted - 2015.02.07 12:19:00 - [17] - Quote Wear a high rep heavy while gunning ? Little star protection
Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command 968	Posted - 2015.02.07 12:58:00 - [18] - Quote I've been in support for this idea ever since it first popped up. We don't walk around with unfit dropsuits because that'd be a silly idea. Using an unfit LAV for transport however is reasonable in the current implementation. People don't even bother to fit militia modules to their LAVs. That's bad. A first step would be to deduct the ehp of a complex small tanking module (complex light shield extender respective complex 60 mm plate) and adding one slot and the CPU/PG of that tanking module (after fitting optimization 5). That is a minimum effort implementation that will already have a large effect. Afterwards we can go from there. On the topic of gunner protection, I guess stuff like this could be also be mitigated by tweaking the turrets. If you know what you're doing a missile launcher or small railgun will allow you to stay far enough away from the action that retaliation with non-AV weapons is unfeasible. It's only the limited range of the small blaster that forces you to go within ~50 meters and thus expose the gunner of an LAV of DS to possible harm. Reducing small blaster dispersion to make them effective at ~80 meter would be a fix with comparatively small effort, even if it's not perfect.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 2882	Posted - 2015.02.07 13:08:00 - [19] - Quote The-Errorist wrote: Trello card to vote on. LAVs need to lose around 1k HP, gain 2 slots, and some more PG/CPU to fill those slots. This would make cheap through-away LAVs killable by AV grenades and give legitimate LAV drivers a bit more potential fitting options. 1000 HP!! What? Do you use vehicles at all for anything? Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
Slave of MORTE Eyniletti Rangers Minmatar Republic 264	Posted - 2015.02.07 14:25:00 - [20] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: good idea, I have looked into some form of protection for gunners but it's not easy at all Why can't you just give them a forward facing blast shield Yet another slave of Mortedeamor

Slave of MORTE Eyniletti Rangers Minmatar Republic 270	Posted - 2015.02.07 14:26:00 - [21] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: The-Errorist wrote: Trello card to vote on. LAVs need to lose around 1k HP, gain 2 slots, and some more PG/CPU to fill those slots. This would make cheap through-away LAVs killable by AV grenades and give legitimate LAV drivers a bit more potential fitting options. 1000 HP!! What? Do you use vehicles at all for anything? How many shield ext would my saga 2 have to fit to survive 1 nade if it lost 1000.shields No just no terrible idea lavs barely have any hp to begin with Yet another slave of Mortedeamor
Aeon Amadi Chimera Core 8527	Posted - 2015.02.08 01:06:00 - [22] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: good idea, I have looked into some form of protection for gunners but it's not easy at all Would sacrifice goats to Rattati in the eventuality a frontal shields were implemented. Have a suggestion for the Planetary Services Department? *Founder of AIV*
Baal Omniscient Qualified Scrub 2159	Posted - 2015.02.08 02:00:00 - [23] - Quote Now that is a vehicle change I can get behind. An unfitted shield LAV, MLT or otherwise, should NOT be able to tank two proto packed AV grenades. If this means basic and ADV grenades are actually worth running again to deal with all BPO LAV's or unfitted throw away cars, I'm more than happy to support it. As long as 'more fitting options' doesn't essentially bring back that damn Charybdis that is.... Winmatar Assault, Proficiency 5 SMG's & Proficiency 5 Swarms Since Uprising 1.0 I GÖú Puppies (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.*pâ+n+ín+ƒ.
The True Inferno Taiyou Corporation Proficiency V. 151	Posted - 2015.02.08 03:24:00 - [24] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: good idea, I have looked into some form of protection for gunners but it's not easy at all What if, until they're depleted, shields protect any occupants of the vehicle, or, give them a resistance buff. ScP = GÖÑ Burst AR all the way! An Ace Pilot
The-Errorist 1027	Posted - 2015.02.08 21:48:00 - [25] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: The-Errorist wrote: Trello card to vote on. LAVs need to lose around 1k HP, gain 2 slots, and some more PG/CPU to fill those slots. This would make cheap through-away LAVs killable by AV grenades and give legitimate LAV drivers a bit more potential fitting options. 1000 HP!! What? Do you use vehicles at all for anything? Slave of MORTE wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: The-Errorist wrote: Trello card to vote on. LAVs need to lose around 1k HP, gain 2 slots, and some more PG/CPU to fill those slots. This would make cheap through-away LAVs killable by AV grenades and give legitimate LAV drivers a bit more potential fitting options. 1000 HP!! What? Do you use vehicles at all for anything? How many shield ext would my saga 2 have to fit to survive 1 nade if it lost 1000.shields No just no terrible idea lavs barely have any hp to begin with Read post #11. Also going to make the OP more specific. My Basic medium frames, logis & Commandos Racial tanks
Slave of MORTE Eyniletti Rangers Minmatar Republic 276	Posted - 2015.02.08 23:42:00 - [26] - Quote Slave of MORTE wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: The-Errorist wrote: Trello card to vote on. LAVs need to lose around 1k HP, gain 2 slots, and some more PG/CPU to fill those slots. This would make cheap through-away LAVs killable by AV grenades and give legitimate LAV drivers a bit more potential fitting options. 1000 HP!! What? Do you use vehicles at all for anything? How many shield ext would my saga 2 have to fit to survive 1 nade if it lost 1000.shields No just no terrible idea lavs barely have any hp to begin with Yes 1k less base HP, but 2 more slots and PG/CPU to bring that HP back up. A basic packed AV grenade does 1042.5 damage per grenade and 2 of those should kill an unfit LAV. If you want to survive one AV grenade, you will need to add 0 extra shield extenders, and if you want to survive 2, fill 1 of the available 5 slots with an HP mod.[/quote] Over all this would nerf higher end lavs which are already Subpar fitting 2 complex light shield ext doesn't give you a thousand extra hp..and it cuts you recovery ... Not to mention increases the isk cost of higher end lava which are already not worth speccing Yet another slave of Mortedeamor
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game 718	Posted - 2015.02.09 00:21:00 - [27] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: good idea, I have looked into some form of protection for gunners but it's not easy at all What's wrong with a heavy suit? Wanna be a dedicated gunner, set up a heavy with Nova Knives and stack hp. Can already down proto heavy with HMG in a 1 on 1 fight using adv blaster and adv heavy suit. Just to point out that if you add protection for the gunner & they fit a suit like this, that's gonna be some badly unbalanced gunners going around. Tesfa Alem wrote: It will certainly be the final death of the Jihad Jeep. Really? The amount of times I've bounced off a tank with a Jihad Jeep and wished I could fit less hp to it... If anything this is a bonus, lol.
The-Errorist 1027	Posted - 2015.02.09 00:24:00 - [28] - Quote Slave of MORTE wrote: The-Errorist wrote: Slave of MORTE wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: The-Errorist wrote: Trello card to vote on. LAVs need to lose around 1k HP, gain 2 slots, and some more PG/CPU to fill those slots. This would make cheap through-away LAVs killable by AV grenades and give legitimate LAV drivers a bit more potential fitting options. 1000 HP!! What? Do you use vehicles at all for anything? How many shield ext would my saga 2 have to fit to survive 1 nade if it lost 1000.shields No just no terrible idea lavs barely have any hp to begin with Yes 1k less base HP, but 2 more slots and PG/CPU to bring that HP back up. A basic packed AV grenade does 1042.5 damage per grenade and 2 of those should kill an unfit LAV. If you want to survive one AV grenade, you will need to add 0 extra shield extenders, and if you want to survive 2, fill 1 of the available 5 slots with an HP mod. Over all this would nerf higher end lavs which are already Subpar fitting 2 complex light shield ext doesn't give you a thousand extra hp..and it cuts you recovery ... Not to mention increases the isk cost of higher end lava which are already not worth speccing What about the extra PG/CPU they would get with those slots and what if LAV prices also went down? Suits, Tanks, a mode
Kuruld Sengar ROGUE RELICS VP Gaming Alliance 195	Posted - 2015.02.09 01:01:00 - [29] - Quote The True Inferno wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: good idea, I have looked into some form of protection for gunners but it's not easy at all What if, until they're depleted, shields protect any occupants of the vehicle, or, give them a resistance buff. You know what... I like that idea ^
MetalWolf-Cell ROGUE RELICS VP Gaming Alliance 29	Posted - 2015.02.09 01:07:00 - [30] - Quote Kuruld Sengar wrote: The True Inferno wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: good idea, I have looked into some form of protection for gunners but it's not easy at all What if, until they're depleted, shields protect any occupants of the vehicle, or, give them a resistance buff. You know what... I like that idea ^ It's a good idea...but then the Methana would be left due to it's protection based on armor, not shields. I would go as some said, just devise a frontal shield for the gunner seat. Kind of sucks that no matter where you go, the gunner always gets blapped on all sides. Love LAV's, but that is the reason no one uses them: Gunners are completely vulnerable. DUST 514/LEGION



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