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DeadlyAztec11
Ostrakon Agency
7184
   |
Posted - 2015.01.22 11:32:00 -
[1] - Quote
Yes.
Put your flags up in the sky.
And wave them side to side.
Show the world where you're from.
Show the world we are one.
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Godin Thekiller
The Corporate Raiders
2710
|
Posted - 2015.01.22 11:55:00 -
[2] - Quote
1: That is a heavy with a swarm launcher, not a heavy swarm launcher.
2: There's videos with heavies using other light weapons. Want a heavy LR or PR too?
3: That would end up being just a buffed Swarm, unless you're suguesting otherwise. If the former, hell no.
click me
Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
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Megaman Trigger
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
195
|
Posted - 2015.01.22 11:58:00 -
[3] - Quote
Is that a Sentinel or a Commando?
Purifier. First Class.
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Breakin Stuff
Internal Error.
Negative-Feedback
6647
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Posted - 2015.01.22 12:46:00 -
[4] - Quote
That's a hellmar sentinel with a swarm launcher
VHCL
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pegasis prime
BIG BAD W0LVES
1968
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Posted - 2015.01.22 12:49:00 -
[5] - Quote
Swarm launchers used to be heavy wepons. That's why the immortal vid has heavies using swarms . Swarms also used to be dumb fire and actually were quite op against infantry .
Proud Caldari purist . Rank 10 colonel omiwarrior.
I fought and bled for the State on Caldari prime.
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Lazer Fo Cused
Shining Flame
Amarr Empire
587
|
Posted - 2015.01.22 13:47:00 -
[6] - Quote
1. No
2. No more weapons that require 0 skill
3. No more weapons that require 0 aim |
Derpty Derp
Dead Man's Game
646
|
Posted - 2015.01.22 14:03:00 -
[7] - Quote
If I had my way... Plasma cannons and swarms would be heavy weapons.
A scout carrying av is just plain wrong.
Put them on heavy suits, you wont want to try sprinting around to get close, you might actually have to aim...
Also dedicated av might become a viable thing again, rather than "oh look a vehicle" whole team swaps to av & fires together "job done!" switch back.
That and, bring back dumbfire swarms with 0 splash, increase lock time to 8 seconds... Now you have a weapon that takes skill. |
Mortishai Belmont
G.L.O.R.Y
General Tso's Alliance
371
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Posted - 2015.01.22 14:11:00 -
[8] - Quote
No, we need a particle cannon as a heavy weapon, some AV proficient against shield... As there is no such thing and I find that hilariously stupid.
G.L.O.R.Y Soldier,
I'm that Amarr heavy you warn your team about <3
-Heavy/Logi/Assault/Scout-
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Alaika Arbosa
Minmatar Republic
2407
|
Posted - 2015.01.22 15:03:00 -
[9] - Quote
Large Missile Turret---->Vehicle Mounted Swarm Launcher?
I think that would be a better idea.
Ad Space Available Here
1m Isk/day
Mail me message after transferring Isk (sig updated upon transfer completion)
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Lazer Fo Cused
Shining Flame
Amarr Empire
588
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Posted - 2015.01.22 16:32:00 -
[10] - Quote
Alaika Arbosa wrote:Large Missile Turret---->Vehicle Mounted Swarm Launcher?
I think that would be a better idea.
1. No
2. No more weapons that require 0 skill
3. No more weapons that require 0 aim |
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DeadlyAztec11
Ostrakon Agency
7186
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Posted - 2015.01.22 19:51:00 -
[11] - Quote
Godin Thekiller wrote:1: That is a heavy with a swarm launcher, not a heavy swarm launcher.
2: There's videos with heavies using other light weapons. Want a heavy LR or PR too?
3: That would end up being just a buffed Swarm, unless you're suguesting otherwise. If the former, hell no.
1: That's what I want it to look like
2: The LR, HMG and PC are already going to be made into heavy variants.
3: Basically semi auto (one missile per trigger pull), and you have to maintain the lock. The Magazine is twice as large. Missiles do 1.75x damage of regular swarm Missile. Missiles travel at only .80 speed of regular missiles.
4: Can we stop talking in lists? It makes everyone look special.
Put your flags up in the sky.
And wave them side to side.
Show the world where you're from.
Show the world we are one.
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Kierkegaard Soren
Eridani Light Horse Striker
654
|
Posted - 2015.01.22 20:30:00 -
[12] - Quote
A swarm launcher that mirrors the plasma cannon but deals explosive damage would be reasonable. Fun, even.
Dedicated Commando. CEO of Eridani Light Horse Strikers.
"He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing."
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Godin Thekiller
The Corporate Raiders
2711
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Posted - 2015.01.22 20:58:00 -
[13] - Quote
DeadlyAztec11 wrote:Godin Thekiller wrote:1: That is a heavy with a swarm launcher, not a heavy swarm launcher.
2: There's videos with heavies using other light weapons. Want a heavy LR or PR too?
3: That would end up being just a buffed Swarm, unless you're suguesting otherwise. If the former, hell no. 1: That's what I want it to look like 2: The LR, HMG and PC are already going to be made into heavy variants. 3: Basically semi auto (one missile per trigger pull), and you have to maintain the lock. The Magazine is twice as large. Missiles do 1.75x damage of regular swarm Missile. Missiles travel at only .80 speed of regular missiles. 4: Can we stop talking in lists? It makes everyone look special.
Hell no. That thing would be OP as hell.
click me
Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
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DeadlyAztec11
Ostrakon Agency
7189
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Posted - 2015.01.22 22:16:00 -
[14] - Quote
Godin Thekiller wrote:DeadlyAztec11 wrote:
3: Basically semi auto (one missile per trigger pull), and you have to maintain the lock. The Magazine is twice as large. Missiles do 1.75x damage of regular swarm Missile. Missiles travel at only .80 speed of regular missiles.
4: Can we stop talking in lists? It makes everyone look special.
Hell no. That thing would be OP as hell.
How's that OP? It is semi auto and you need to maintain the lock I.E. not fire and forget. Plus the missiles travel slower. The only benefit is a larger mag and more damage. Though you wouldn't be able to pop out of cover and just fire then move position. You would have to wait till the missiles hit or you would miss.
Put your flags up in the sky.
And wave them side to side.
Show the world where you're from.
Show the world we are one.
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CCP Rattati
C C P
C C P Alliance
15520
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Posted - 2015.01.23 08:00:00 -
[15] - Quote
Lazer Fo Cused wrote:1. No
2. No more weapons that require 0 skill
3. No more weapons that require 0 aim
Whatever, you know full well that a militia swarm is shrugged off by most armor, you also know that it needs to be very carefully aimed to get all missiles to hit, it obstructs your field of vision and you are very exposed while using it with only a sidearm as it has no AI capability, other than the forge and plasma cannon.
I am understanding of many HAV issues, but I can assure you, there is noone listening to this in particular.
"As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"
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Sgt Kirk
Fatal Absolution
9303
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Posted - 2015.01.23 08:05:00 -
[16] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Lazer Fo Cused wrote:1. No
2. No more weapons that require 0 skill
3. No more weapons that require 0 aim Whatever, you know full well that a militia swarm is shrugged off by most armor, you also know that it needs to be very carefully aimed to get all missiles to hit, it obstructs your field of vision and you are very exposed while using it with only a sidearm as it has no AI capability, other than the forge and plasma cannon. I am understanding of many HAV issues, but I can assure you, there is noone listening to this in particular.
what is the problem is that the fire and forget Swarm does more damage than a PLC that actually requires aiming
and timing.
What's an even bigger problem is that I have no idea how you guys are going to balance shield and armor vehicles when all of the AV in this game, save for one, is anti-armor.
What's an even bigger problem is that I think people will actually care that this deep rooted issue with vehicle balance.
Vote 'Keshava' for the new Gallente HAV name!
~Democracy will win!
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
18451
|
Posted - 2015.01.23 08:10:00 -
[17] - Quote
pegasis prime wrote:Swarm launchers used to be heavy wepons. That's why the immortal vid has heavies using swarms . Swarms also used to be dumb fire and actually were quite op against infantry .
Amarr only had 1 suit back then; guess which!?
CPM 1
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior
\\= Prototype Forge Gun=// Unlocked
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Tesfa Alem
Death by Disassociation
745
|
Posted - 2015.01.23 08:24:00 -
[18] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:
Whatever, you know full well that a militia swarm is shrugged off by most armor, you also know that it needs to be very carefully aimed to get all missiles to hit, it obstructs your field of vision and you are very exposed while using it with only a sidearm as it has no AI capability, other than the forge and plasma cannon.
I am understanding of many HAV issues, but I can assure you, there is noone listening to this in particular.
Commando
It is classifed as a heavy suit (for the OP), the minmatar alone runs around with about 1000 ehp and can carry the light weapon of choice. The swarm launcher becomes a sidearm.
Say a swarmer is under attack while waiting to lock on there is no weapon switch delay like a cloak does, as well as a near 1000 HP buffer to absorb a few alpha hits.
sorry to bring this up again, but the swarms being "victimised" by infantry is a falsehood.
Miltia swarms are going to have a tough time vs any tank, because tanks are fit to try and survive proto AV attacks. Its akin to having your only option fighting proto suits a militia AR. Personally i would remove the milita starter AV suit, its suicide vs everything, to try to protect yourself with a militia sidearm is suicide and give noobs a mlt starter forge gun suit. or a mlt starter commando suit.
Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
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CCP Rattati
C C P
C C P Alliance
15528
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Posted - 2015.01.23 08:40:00 -
[19] - Quote
Tesfa Alem wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:
Whatever, you know full well that a militia swarm is shrugged off by most armor, you also know that it needs to be very carefully aimed to get all missiles to hit, it obstructs your field of vision and you are very exposed while using it with only a sidearm as it has no AI capability, other than the forge and plasma cannon.
I am understanding of many HAV issues, but I can assure you, there is noone listening to this in particular.
Commando It is classifed as a heavy suit (for the OP), the minmatar alone runs around with about 1000 ehp and can carry the light weapon of choice. The swarm launcher becomes a sidearm. Say a swarmer is under attack while waiting to lock on there is no weapon switch delay like a cloak does, as well as a near 1000 HP buffer to absorb a few alpha hits. sorry to bring this up again, but the swarms being "victimised" by infantry is a falsehood. Miltia swarms are going to have a tough time vs any tank, because tanks are fit to try and survive proto AV attacks. Its akin to having your only option fighting proto suits a militia AR. Personally i would remove the milita starter AV suit, its suicide vs everything, to try to protect yourself with a militia sidearm is suicide and give noobs a mlt starter forge gun suit. or a mlt starter commando suit.
Sure, but the usual complaint is the "free swarm launcher that everyone gets" i.e. the starter fit, not a commando and swarm launcher that needs millions of SP to be truly effective
"As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"
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CCP Rattati
C C P
C C P Alliance
15528
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Posted - 2015.01.23 08:42:00 -
[20] - Quote
Tesfa Alem wrote:give noobs a mlt starter forge gun suit. or a mlt starter commando suit.
new starter fit: "militia commando with faction assault rifle and militia plasma cannon" being planned as of three days ago
"As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"
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Shamarskii Simon
The Hundred Acre Hood
RISE of LEGION
45
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Posted - 2015.01.23 08:49:00 -
[21] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:
Whatever, you know full well that a militia swarm is shrugged off by most armor, you also know that it needs to be very carefully aimed to get all missiles to hit
No. I don't mean to burst your bubble but, no one ever shrugs off militia swarms. Well, in any game I'm in. Hell, only time they won't hit is if it's a ground vehicle. If a dropship it's an immediate evacuate the area because-
1: no way to dodge other than full speed away.
2: usually 3 people decide to switch to swarms by now, or a minmando is chilling near by (always always always is).
The air matters too. Not just the HAVs. And in a dropship sense, it's somewhat true.
Either you see swarmer, or you leave. Or you look for swarmer but lol we all know that's not the best thing to do. There isn't a way to dance around with swarms compared to FG/PLC/Rail-Inky.
I think that's what he (Lazer Fo Cused) was getting at.
Entering the void and becoming wind with my repbus.
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Aeon Amadi
Chimera Core
7956
|
Posted - 2015.01.23 08:50:00 -
[22] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Tesfa Alem wrote:give noobs a mlt starter forge gun suit. or a mlt starter commando suit. new starter fit: "militia commando with faction assault rifle and militia plasma cannon" being planned as of three days ago
Hahahaha
New players are going to hate you and they won't even know why xD
Sniper range nerf did nothing but make it harder to counter-snipe redliners. That and open up for really stupid feedback
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Aeon Amadi
Chimera Core
7956
|
Posted - 2015.01.23 08:52:00 -
[23] - Quote
Shamarskii Simon wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:
Whatever, you know full well that a militia swarm is shrugged off by most armor, you also know that it needs to be very carefully aimed to get all missiles to hit
No. I don't mean to burst your bubble but, no one ever shrugs off militia swarms. Well, in any game I'm in. Hell, only time they won't hit is if it's a ground vehicle. If a dropship it's an immediate evacuate the area because- 1: no way to dodge other than full speed away. 2: usually 3 people decide to switch to swarms by now, or a minmando is chilling near by (always always always is). The air matters too. Not just the HAVs. And in a dropship sense, it's somewhat true. Either you see swarmer, or you leave. Or you look for swarmer but lol we all know that's not the best thing to do. There isn't a way to dance around with swarms compared to FG/PLC/Rail-Inky. I think that's what he was getting at.
I just think it's hilarious that anyone has an issue with it requiring three people to make anyone run away when it comes to AV. Even more so when that issue is in favor of the vehicle.
Sniper range nerf did nothing but make it harder to counter-snipe redliners. That and open up for really stupid feedback
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Shamarskii Simon
The Hundred Acre Hood
RISE of LEGION
45
|
Posted - 2015.01.23 08:57:00 -
[24] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Shamarskii Simon wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:
Whatever, you know full well that a militia swarm is shrugged off by most armor, you also know that it needs to be very carefully aimed to get all missiles to hit
No. I don't mean to burst your bubble but, no one ever shrugs off militia swarms. Well, in any game I'm in. Hell, only time they won't hit is if it's a ground vehicle. If a dropship it's an immediate evacuate the area because- 1: no way to dodge other than full speed away. 2: usually 3 people decide to switch to swarms by now, or a minmando is chilling near by (always always always is). The air matters too. Not just the HAVs. And in a dropship sense, it's somewhat true. Either you see swarmer, or you leave. Or you look for swarmer but lol we all know that's not the best thing to do. There isn't a way to dance around with swarms compared to FG/PLC/Rail-Inky. I think that's what he was getting at. I just think it's hilarious that anyone has an issue with it requiring three people to make anyone run away when it comes to AV. Even more so when that issue is in favor of the vehicle.
I don't have an issue with it, it's the fact that one can't stay to fight it out 1v1. 3 people is a definite dead situation anyways.
Even the most dangerous flying won't have a swarm "miss" the ship, is what i'm getting at.
Entering the void and becoming wind with my repbus.
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Aeon Amadi
Chimera Core
7956
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Posted - 2015.01.23 09:02:00 -
[25] - Quote
Shamarskii Simon wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Shamarskii Simon wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:
Whatever, you know full well that a militia swarm is shrugged off by most armor, you also know that it needs to be very carefully aimed to get all missiles to hit
No. I don't mean to burst your bubble but, no one ever shrugs off militia swarms. Well, in any game I'm in. Hell, only time they won't hit is if it's a ground vehicle. If a dropship it's an immediate evacuate the area because- 1: no way to dodge other than full speed away. 2: usually 3 people decide to switch to swarms by now, or a minmando is chilling near by (always always always is). The air matters too. Not just the HAVs. And in a dropship sense, it's somewhat true. Either you see swarmer, or you leave. Or you look for swarmer but lol we all know that's not the best thing to do. There isn't a way to dance around with swarms compared to FG/PLC/Rail-Inky. I think that's what he was getting at. I just think it's hilarious that anyone has an issue with it requiring three people to make anyone run away when it comes to AV. Even more so when that issue is in favor of the vehicle. I don't have an issue with it, it's the fact that one can't stay to fight it out 1v1. 3 people is a definite dead situation anyways. Even the most dangerous flying won't have a swarm "miss" the ship, is what i'm getting at.
You do realize that an ADV/Proto Small Missile Turret can 2/3 shot even a commando, right? There's ungodly 1-v-1 capability in favor of the ADS.
Sniper range nerf did nothing but make it harder to counter-snipe redliners. That and open up for really stupid feedback
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Juno Tristan
Obscure Reference
288
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Posted - 2015.01.23 09:08:00 -
[26] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Tesfa Alem wrote:give noobs a mlt starter forge gun suit. or a mlt starter commando suit. new starter fit: "militia commando with faction assault rifle and militia plasma cannon" being planned as of three days ago
give noobs a mlt tank |
Shamarskii Simon
The Hundred Acre Hood
RISE of LEGION
45
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Posted - 2015.01.23 09:23:00 -
[27] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Shamarskii Simon wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Shamarskii Simon wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:
Whatever, you know full well that a militia swarm is shrugged off by most armor, you also know that it needs to be very carefully aimed to get all missiles to hit
No. I don't mean to burst your bubble but, no one ever shrugs off militia swarms. Well, in any game I'm in. Hell, only time they won't hit is if it's a ground vehicle. If a dropship it's an immediate evacuate the area because- 1: no way to dodge other than full speed away. 2: usually 3 people decide to switch to swarms by now, or a minmando is chilling near by (always always always is). The air matters too. Not just the HAVs. And in a dropship sense, it's somewhat true. Either you see swarmer, or you leave. Or you look for swarmer but lol we all know that's not the best thing to do. There isn't a way to dance around with swarms compared to FG/PLC/Rail-Inky. I think that's what he was getting at. I just think it's hilarious that anyone has an issue with it requiring three people to make anyone run away when it comes to AV. Even more so when that issue is in favor of the vehicle. I don't have an issue with it, it's the fact that one can't stay to fight it out 1v1. 3 people is a definite dead situation anyways. Even the most dangerous flying won't have a swarm "miss" the ship, is what i'm getting at. You do realize that an ADV/Proto Small Missile Turret can 2/3 shot even a commando, right? There's ungodly 1-v-1 capability in favor of the ADS.
Sigh, not everyone uses a missile firstly(me, i AV with a rail incubus) to engage AV is hard because most of the time swarms have first mover advantage, especially before one enters the combat area. Then, swarms move the dropship also, making it harder to aim. After that, there is cover on the ground.
It's not ungodly unless you get the jump on them.
Anyways, that's not what i'm getting at, what i'm saying there needs to be a way to dodge w/o relying on AB away. Skillful dropship piloting doesn't matter currently (unless it's against a vehicle)
Entering the void and becoming wind with my repbus.
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Tesfa Alem
Death by Disassociation
747
|
Posted - 2015.01.23 11:39:00 -
[28] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Tesfa Alem wrote:give noobs a mlt starter forge gun suit. or a mlt starter commando suit. new starter fit: "militia commando with faction assault rifle and militia plasma cannon" being planned as of three days ago
This is very good news, though I actually would not mind keeping swarms on a MLT commando, as long as they don't get the racial bonus. Partly because Swarms are the simplest weapon to use, and it would be tough for a brand new player in dust to get the hang of the Plasma Cannon. Most Vets have a hard time getting used to it, its the only light weapon i left at level 1.
Once racial AV weapon parity sets it, you can re assign the starter commando fits with the racial AV weapon. Untill then we can leave the swarms on all of the commando starter fits.
Before the lynch mob settles in with pitchforks, I'm not really arguing for more swarms, just for the basic swarms that everybody has access to now to be on a survivable suit.
Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
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Sole Fenychs
Sinq Laison Gendarmes
Gallente Federation
595
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Posted - 2015.01.23 12:13:00 -
[29] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Tesfa Alem wrote:give noobs a mlt starter forge gun suit. or a mlt starter commando suit. new starter fit: "militia commando with faction assault rifle and militia plasma cannon" being planned as of three days ago
Will this mean militia specializations for everything? Or at least a proper Logi entry suit?
Because otherwise I imagine a few very confused newberries.
...Hell, you could just as well scrap basic suits altogether if you get specializations at militia. The basics already have no purpose, aside from being the stepping stone to specializations
Well, unless you intend to make basic suits generalists, best used by solo players, while specialized suits get heavy flaws to offset their strengths, making them good team players. |
Derpty Derp
Dead Man's Game
648
|
Posted - 2015.01.23 13:01:00 -
[30] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:
Whatever, you know full well that a militia swarm is shrugged off by most armor
That's only because most vehicles go full proto, because most av goes full proto and if you aren't full proto in a vehicle you're dead before you can shout 'afterburner!'
Yet if I'm on the ground, I can run a starter fit and stay alive in the middle of a fight, with people running full proto suits (maybe not for long, but long enough to plan an escape strategy.)
CCP Rattati wrote:
you also know that it needs to be very carefully aimed to get all missiles to hit, it obstructs your field of vision and you are very exposed while using it with only a sidearm as it has no AI capability
I've chased off vehicles with the starter fit swarms, vs militia vehicles it does enough to destroy them if you get your positioning right (as in, don't alert them to your presence before you're close enough to land 3 shots.) The only aiming required is to point it away from anything between you and the target, not exactly rocket science. |
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Lazer Fo Cused
Shining Flame
Amarr Empire
598
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Posted - 2015.01.23 13:20:00 -
[31] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Lazer Fo Cused wrote:1. No
2. No more weapons that require 0 skill
3. No more weapons that require 0 aim Whatever, you know full well that a militia swarm is shrugged off by most armor, you also know that it needs to be very carefully aimed to get all missiles to hit, it obstructs your field of vision and you are very exposed while using it with only a sidearm as it has no AI capability, other than the forge and plasma cannon. I am understanding of many HAV issues, but I can assure you, there is noone listening to this in particular.
1. MLT maybe but its still broken because you cant dodge it, use a DS its even worse
2. Carefully aimed? You are joking right? I can spam missiles and they will hit, i dont even have to aim at the target to fire the missiles - You have never used the weapon have you?
3. FOV is fine
4. Sidearms are good if you know what you are doing and if you are in a place where you dont need to use your sidearm then its better
5. You really have never used the weapon have you? |
Lazer Fo Cused
Shining Flame
Amarr Empire
598
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Posted - 2015.01.23 13:25:00 -
[32] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Tesfa Alem wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:
Whatever, you know full well that a militia swarm is shrugged off by most armor, you also know that it needs to be very carefully aimed to get all missiles to hit, it obstructs your field of vision and you are very exposed while using it with only a sidearm as it has no AI capability, other than the forge and plasma cannon.
I am understanding of many HAV issues, but I can assure you, there is noone listening to this in particular.
Commando It is classifed as a heavy suit (for the OP), the minmatar alone runs around with about 1000 ehp and can carry the light weapon of choice. The swarm launcher becomes a sidearm. Say a swarmer is under attack while waiting to lock on there is no weapon switch delay like a cloak does, as well as a near 1000 HP buffer to absorb a few alpha hits. sorry to bring this up again, but the swarms being "victimised" by infantry is a falsehood. Miltia swarms are going to have a tough time vs any tank, because tanks are fit to try and survive proto AV attacks. Its akin to having your only option fighting proto suits a militia AR. Personally i would remove the milita starter AV suit, its suicide vs everything, to try to protect yourself with a militia sidearm is suicide and give noobs a mlt starter forge gun suit. or a mlt starter commando suit. Sure, but the usual complaint is the "free swarm launcher that everyone gets" i.e. the starter fit, not a commando and swarm launcher that needs millions of SP to be truly effective
1. It need less than 5mil SP to be effective
2. A vehicle needs upwards of 10mil just to survive let alone be any use it needs alot more and even then it can still be made a joke of by 'fire and forget and dont need to look at you to fire swarms and i know my missiles will bend around x amount of corners at full speed to hit you while you try to make a evasive maneuver in which the missile stop in midair make the 235deg turn on the spot and set off at full speed again and you pray that you somehow get to 400m or some working cover'
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Tesfa Alem
Death by Disassociation
748
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Posted - 2015.01.23 14:07:00 -
[33] - Quote
Lazer Fo Cused wrote:
1. It need less than 5mil SP to be effective
2. A vehicle needs upwards of 10mil just to survive let alone be any use it needs alot more and even then it can still be made a joke of by 'fire and forget and dont need to look at you to fire swarms and i know my missiles will bend around x amount of corners at full speed to hit you while you try to make a evasive maneuver in which the missile stop in midair make the 235deg turn on the spot and set off at full speed again and you pray that you somehow get to 400m or some working cover'
Swarms to be effective you don't need 5 mil. In a straight vehicle vs AV fight Swarms level V , which is well under a million SP is all you need to hunt the best vehicles. Even if a grant another mil for a ADV min commando suit from scratch, thats hardly breaking Two mill.
With this you have unlocked basic heavy, adv basic heavy, basic commando, adv commando, STD, ADV, and proto swarms with a 6% bonus damage bonus. Thats 4 very useful suits and 3 tiers of weapons., the most expesive of which is roughly 70 thousand isk.
Prof.3 is around 300,000 SP. In under 3 million SP i can have a very dangerous and effective Vehicle hunting suit. which is exaclty what i run if i'm swarming.
Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
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Soldner VonKuechle
SAM-MIK
General Tso's Alliance
1399
|
Posted - 2015.01.23 15:03:00 -
[34] - Quote
Tesfa Alem wrote:Lazer Fo Cused wrote:
1. It need less than 5mil SP to be effective
2. A vehicle needs upwards of 10mil just to survive let alone be any use it needs alot more and even then it can still be made a joke of by 'fire and forget and dont need to look at you to fire swarms and i know my missiles will bend around x amount of corners at full speed to hit you while you try to make a evasive maneuver in which the missile stop in midair make the 235deg turn on the spot and set off at full speed again and you pray that you somehow get to 400m or some working cover'
Swarms to be effective you don't need 5 mil. In a straight vehicle vs AV fight Swarms level V , which is well under a million SP is all you need to hunt the best vehicles. Even if a grant another mil for a ADV min commando suit from scratch, thats hardly breaking Two mill. With this you have unlocked basic heavy, adv basic heavy, basic commando, adv commando, STD, ADV, and proto swarms with a 6% bonus damage bonus. Thats 4 very useful suits and 3 tiers of weapons., the most expesive of which is roughly 70 thousand isk. Prof.3 is around 300,000 SP. In under 3 million SP i can have a very dangerous and effective Vehicle hunting suit. which is exaclty what i run if i'm swarming.
Holy sgit, it's like "specialization" or something.
Add+10 million for core upgrades and you've just described current progression.
I've seen more bad ideas on these forums than the US Congress over the last decade.
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Sole Fenychs
Sinq Laison Gendarmes
Gallente Federation
595
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Posted - 2015.01.23 15:24:00 -
[35] - Quote
Tesfa Alem wrote:Lazer Fo Cused wrote:
1. It need less than 5mil SP to be effective
2. A vehicle needs upwards of 10mil just to survive let alone be any use it needs alot more and even then it can still be made a joke of by 'fire and forget and dont need to look at you to fire swarms and i know my missiles will bend around x amount of corners at full speed to hit you while you try to make a evasive maneuver in which the missile stop in midair make the 235deg turn on the spot and set off at full speed again and you pray that you somehow get to 400m or some working cover'
Swarms to be effective you don't need 5 mil. In a straight vehicle vs AV fight Swarms level V , which is well under a million SP is all you need to hunt the best vehicles. Even if a grant another mil for a ADV min commando suit from scratch, thats hardly breaking Two mill. With this you have unlocked basic heavy, adv basic heavy, basic commando, adv commando, STD, ADV, and proto swarms with a 6% bonus damage bonus. Thats 4 very useful suits and 3 tiers of weapons., the most expesive of which is roughly 70 thousand isk. Prof.3 is around 300,000 SP. In under 3 million SP i can have a very dangerous and effective Vehicle hunting suit. which is exaclty what i run if i'm swarming.
Good luck surviving the blueberries with combat rifles and the nova knife tryhards while you are at it. Especially with zero investment in the armor categories and no points in basic rifles. |
Sir Dukey
Murphys-Law
General Tso's Alliance
1575
|
Posted - 2015.01.23 16:07:00 -
[36] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Lazer Fo Cused wrote:1. No
2. No more weapons that require 0 skill
3. No more weapons that require 0 aim Whatever, you know full well that a militia swarm is shrugged off by most armor, you also know that it needs to be very carefully aimed to get all missiles to hit, it obstructs your field of vision and you are very exposed while using it with only a sidearm as it has no AI capability, other than the forge and plasma cannon. I am understanding of many HAV issues, but I can assure you, there is noone listening to this in particular.
Do you ever care to think about ADS?
Acquire Currency, Disregard Female Canis lupus familiaris
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Godin Thekiller
The Corporate Raiders
2715
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Posted - 2015.01.23 16:13:00 -
[37] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Lazer Fo Cused wrote:1. No
2. No more weapons that require 0 skill
3. No more weapons that require 0 aim Whatever, you know full well that a militia swarm is shrugged off by most armor, you also know that it needs to be very carefully aimed to get all missiles to hit, it obstructs your field of vision and you are very exposed while using it with only a sidearm as it has no AI capability, other than the forge and plasma cannon. I am understanding of many HAV issues, but I can assure you, there is noone listening to this in particular.
It doesn't take 0 skill, but it doesn't take that much skill to ambush a HAV anyways, and seeing as you don't have to aim, you're giving it way too much credit.
click me
Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
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ACT1ON BASTARD
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
426
|
Posted - 2015.01.23 16:15:00 -
[38] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Tesfa Alem wrote:give noobs a mlt starter forge gun suit. or a mlt starter commando suit. new starter fit: "militia commando with faction assault rifle and militia plasma cannon" being planned as of three days ago
Honestly just give them forges, or change militia swarm launchers to only shoot 3 salvos. Theres enough swarms as is, and I hate that you can't tell a mlt weapon from proto til you're dead.
Proud owner of 4 proto commandos and 3 proto sentinels. All except amarr sent, its a beginner heavy tbh.:p
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Tesfa Alem
Death by Disassociation
750
|
Posted - 2015.01.23 16:27:00 -
[39] - Quote
Sole Fenychs wrote:
Good luck surviving the blueberries with combat rifles and the nova knife tryhards while you are at it. Especially with zero investment in the armor categories and no points in basic rifles.
So we are assuming that the character in question has nothing else to run but a swarm fit?
We could go max armor, but since the suit i described has only 1 low slot, lets go for reps, 700K SP to max it out, but about 400k for the reps we ca fit. Max shield fittings the same, but for two enh extenders we only need 400K as well. Add in an adv combat rifle,BK 42 about 300K SP.
Thats about 600K for the swarms+ 300K proficiency + 300K combat rifle + 400K armor reps + 400K shields+ 300K basic heavu suit 500K ADV comando. I'll even toss in adv nano hives for another 300K
This is for an effective fit, not the maximum best possible fit ever.
For roughly 3.1 million SP
ADV minmatar commando (+ 6% damage bonus + 6% reload speed)
unlocked: basic std heavy, basic adv heavy, basic commando, adv commando
Wyrokami swarms + prof 3 (-20% lock on speed, + 9% damage v armor)
unlocked: STD, ADV, PRO swarms
BK42 (-15% kick)
unlocked: STD and adv reuglar and assault combat rifle
2 enh shield extender
1 enhanced rep
1 K2 nanohive
unlocked STD nanohive, compact nanohive
If you saying that this is an ineffective fit, go cry me a river. You really are just playing the victim card.
Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
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Alaika Arbosa
Minmatar Republic
2412
|
Posted - 2015.01.23 16:34:00 -
[40] - Quote
Tesfa Alem wrote:Sole Fenychs wrote:
Good luck surviving the blueberries with combat rifles and the nova knife tryhards while you are at it. Especially with zero investment in the armor categories and no points in basic rifles.
So we are assuming that the character in question has nothing else to run but a swarm fit? We could go max armor, but since the suit i described has only 1 low slot, lets go for reps, 700K SP to max it out, but about 400k for the reps we ca fit. Max shield fittings the same, but for two enh extenders we only need 400K as well. Add in an adv combat rifle,BK 42 about 300K SP. Thats about 600K for the swarms+ 300K proficiency + 300K combat rifle + 400K armor reps + 400K shields+ 300K basic heavu suit 500K ADV comando. I'll even toss in adv nano hives for another 300K This is for an effective fit, not the maximum best possible fit ever. For roughly 3.1 million SP ADV minmatar commando (+ 6% damage bonus + 6% reload speed) unlocked: basic std heavy, basic adv heavy, basic commando, adv commando Wyrokami swarms + prof 3 (-20% lock on speed, + 9% damage v armor) unlocked: STD, ADV, PRO swarmsBK42 (-15% kick) unlocked: STD and adv reuglar and assault combat rifle2 enh shield extender 1 enhanced rep 1 K2 nanohive unlocked STD nanohive, compact nanohiveIf you saying that this is an ineffective fit, go cry me a river. You really are just playing the victim card.
Can you fit all of that with minimal cores?
I know that I wouldn't have a problem fitting all of that though someone who doesn't have all cores to 5 might not have the same experience.
Ad Space Available Here
1m Isk/day
Mail me message after transferring Isk (sig updated upon transfer completion)
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Balistyc Farshot
The Exemplars
RISE of LEGION
43
|
Posted - 2015.01.23 17:00:00 -
[41] - Quote
Godin Thekiller wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Lazer Fo Cused wrote:1. No
2. No more weapons that require 0 skill
3. No more weapons that require 0 aim Whatever, you know full well that a militia swarm is shrugged off by most armor, you also know that it needs to be very carefully aimed to get all missiles to hit, it obstructs your field of vision and you are very exposed while using it with only a sidearm as it has no AI capability, other than the forge and plasma cannon. I am understanding of many HAV issues, but I can assure you, there is noone listening to this in particular. It doesn't take 0 skill, but it doesn't take that much skill to ambush a HAV anyways, and seeing as you don't have to aim, you're giving it way too much credit.
Ok, reading this garbage is making me mad again about crying ADS pilots. ADS pilots, BACK OFF!
You are mad because of proto light swarms knocking you out of the air. This post was about a decent heavy weapon for vehicles that isn't an assault forge gun. If you get knocked out of the air by a forge gun then you better tip your hat and acknowledge your better (It requirements more skill than an ADS). Forge guns are tough to wield and full of trade offs that you don't understand.
A heavy version of a swarm launcher for sentinels is perfect because sentinels get eaten by vehicles, even a LAV because we can't run for cover or move around the field without our own vehicle. We have very little defense unless we switch our main gun. You have an issue with a heavy, send in a scout. Vehcile pilots should be praising heavies as the perfect balance.
Back on topic - Now a heavy swarm sounds awesome! Guided missiles on a heavy make sense especially if you add in the charge time style walking we have to do with the standard Forge Guns. (If you haven't seen that, we can barely move. The arch enemy of a heavy is a 6 inch curb.) If we had to walk around like that to get a lock, flying away would be easy. Just stroll by at half impulse and if a sentinel is proto focused on this new AV weapon, expect it to knock you out of the sky. Deal with it by out maneuvering.
Only stationary ADS are in trouble currently. If you are stationary ADS, expect to be blown up with the current swarms. Any good ADS pilot knows you always keep moving. Standing and fighting as a flying fortress was taken away. Stop QQ on these great idea posts.
Heavy with a massive bullet hose called Lola (Burst HMG).
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Balistyc Farshot
The Exemplars
RISE of LEGION
43
|
Posted - 2015.01.23 17:02:00 -
[42] - Quote
Last note. With heavies in vehicles, if they get a heavy swarm launcher, don't be surprised when you see a heavy jump out of a tank that is on fire to take you out with his AV. It just is going to happen and won't be solved by keeping a gun out of a heavies hands.
Heavy with a massive bullet hose called Lola (Burst HMG).
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Tesfa Alem
Death by Disassociation
752
|
Posted - 2015.01.23 17:23:00 -
[43] - Quote
i only have my electronics and engineering to 4 and i can fit it no problem.
I'll add those to the rough tally though, at about 400K apiece.
Still 3.9 million.
If you gave me a 5 million SP budget i could also build a pretty good ADV heavy at the same time (ehn armor plactes 400K, enh HMG, 250K ADV forge 250K.
thats a pretty good deal.
Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
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ACT1ON BASTARD
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
426
|
Posted - 2015.01.23 17:25:00 -
[44] - Quote
Balistyc Farshot wrote:Godin Thekiller wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Lazer Fo Cused wrote:1. No
2. No more weapons that require 0 skill
3. No more weapons that require 0 aim Whatever, you know full well that a militia swarm is shrugged off by most armor, you also know that it needs to be very carefully aimed to get all missiles to hit, it obstructs your field of vision and you are very exposed while using it with only a sidearm as it has no AI capability, other than the forge and plasma cannon. I am understanding of many HAV issues, but I can assure you, there is noone listening to this in particular. It doesn't take 0 skill, but it doesn't take that much skill to ambush a HAV anyways, and seeing as you don't have to aim, you're giving it way too much credit. Ok, reading this garbage is making me mad again about crying ADS pilots. ADS pilots, BACK OFF! You are mad because of proto light swarms knocking you out of the air. This post was about a decent heavy weapon for vehicles that isn't an assault forge gun. If you get knocked out of the air by a forge gun then you better tip your hat and acknowledge your better (It requirements more skill than an ADS). Forge guns are tough to wield and full of trade offs that you don't understand. A heavy version of a swarm launcher for sentinels is perfect because sentinels get eaten by vehicles, even a LAV because we can't run for cover or move around the field without our own vehicle. We have very little defense unless we switch our main gun. You have an issue with a heavy, send in a scout. Vehcile pilots should be praising heavies as the perfect balance. Back on topic - Now a heavy swarm sounds awesome! Guided missiles on a heavy make sense especially if you add in the charge time style walking we have to do with the standard Forge Guns. (If you haven't seen that, we can barely move. The arch enemy of a heavy is a 6 inch curb.) If we had to walk around like that to get a lock, flying away would be easy. Just stroll by at half impulse and if a sentinel is proto focused on this new AV weapon, expect it to knock you out of the sky. Deal with it by out maneuvering. Only stationary ADS are in trouble currently. If you are stationary ADS, expect to be blown up with the current swarms. Any good ADS pilot knows you always keep moving. Standing and fighting as a flying fortress was taken away. Stop QQ on these great idea posts.
No, Assault dropships take more skill then any other role in the game.
Proud owner of 4 proto commandos and 3 proto sentinels. All except amarr sent, its a beginner heavy tbh.:p
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Tesfa Alem
Death by Disassociation
752
|
Posted - 2015.01.23 18:18:00 -
[45] - Quote
Balistyc Farshot wrote:Last note. With heavies in vehicles, if they get a heavy swarm launcher, don't be surprised when you see a heavy jump out of a tank that is on fire to take you out with his AV. It just is going to happen and won't be solved by keeping a gun out of a heavies hands.
I repeat again just for you
Commandos are Heavy Suits
Minmatar Commandos are Heavy Suits with a damage bonus to Swarm Launchers
You already have a Swam Launcher that is best fit on a Heavy Suit.
Sentinels get Forge Gus, Prototype versions of AV which do the most damage of any weapon vehicle based or no in all of Dust.
Sentinels and Commandos already jump out of burning vehicles wih swarms and forge guns ready to go.
Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
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Nothing Certain
Bioshock Rejects
1488
|
Posted - 2015.01.23 20:32:00 -
[46] - Quote
Swarms are OP. You know how I know this? Every tanker I see runs a swarm fit and when they see another vehicle they pop out and use swarms to kill it. If swarms weren't OP, when there was a troublesome vehicle they would call in another vehicle to kill it and they would wear a slayer fit in their tank so they could run right up to swarmers and kill them. They never do that though, do they? It is always the damn swarm suit they choose.
Because, that's why.
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Stupid Blueberry
Pure Evil.
Capital Punishment.
967
|
Posted - 2015.01.23 21:19:00 -
[47] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Lazer Fo Cused wrote:1. No
2. No more weapons that require 0 skill
3. No more weapons that require 0 aim Whatever, you know full well that a militia swarm is shrugged off by most armor, you also know that it needs to be very carefully aimed to get all missiles to hit, it obstructs your field of vision and you are very exposed while using it with only a sidearm as it has no AI capability, other than the forge and plasma cannon. I am understanding of many HAV issues, but I can assure you, there is noone listening to this in particular.
Quit with that sidearm **** already. Commandos have been here for like a year now. Nobody in their right mind uses a medium frame for this.
Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu.
Haajakin Kalen.
Blueberry smokin' that crack y'all
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Sgt Kirk
Fatal Absolution
9309
|
Posted - 2015.01.23 22:31:00 -
[48] - Quote
Stupid Blueberry wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Lazer Fo Cused wrote:1. No
2. No more weapons that require 0 skill
3. No more weapons that require 0 aim Whatever, you know full well that a militia swarm is shrugged off by most armor, you also know that it needs to be very carefully aimed to get all missiles to hit, it obstructs your field of vision and you are very exposed while using it with only a sidearm as it has no AI capability, other than the forge and plasma cannon. I am understanding of many HAV issues, but I can assure you, there is noone listening to this in particular. Quit with that sidearm **** already. Commandos have been here for like a year now. Nobody in their right mind uses a medium frame for this.
Only stupid blueberries and scouts run around with Swarms as their main.
Any other person with some common damn sense knows to use AV with a Commando, but as we all know. Blueberry pub players don't have much common sense.
I've tried squadding with them to help them out....never again.
Vote 'Keshava' for the new Gallente HAV name!
~Democracy will win!
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Atiim
Titans of Phoenix
15227
|
Posted - 2015.01.23 22:50:00 -
[49] - Quote
This thread is like a Comedy Club.
One guy claims that you can have 1000 HP on an AV MinCom, another states that MLT Swarms are a competent threat, and then I heard another one say that they could make a rig for less than 4mil SP.
What's even funnier is that this was a thread asking for an AV variant (most likely a joke) and still devolved into a tear fest.
The 1st Matari Commando
-HAND
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DeadlyAztec11
Ostrakon Agency
7200
|
Posted - 2015.01.24 00:32:00 -
[50] - Quote
Atiim wrote:This thread is like a Comedy Club.
One guy claims that you can have 1000 HP on an AV MinCom, another states that MLT Swarms are a competent threat, and then I heard another one say that they could make a rig for less than 4mil SP.
What's even funnier is that this was a thread asking for an AV variant (most likely a joke) and still devolved into a tear fest.
It actually started off as a joke, but then I actually made a serious suggestion lol
Put your flags up in the sky.
And wave them side to side.
Show the world where you're from.
Show the world we are one.
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