DUST Search - idea to fix redline sniping

Aeon Amadi wrote:

Vesta Opalus wrote:

Kodho wrote:

Vesta, how would you propose we do that? There has to be more than fixing sway while standing.

We can try having a sniper variant that removes sway, I think most people can agree sniper rifles are **** and have no real effect on battles, removing sway does not make redline sniping significantly stronger, so I think removing sway is an obvious way to make in field usefulness of sniper rifles better, which may or may not be OP, we can rebalance it later if its a problem.

You can do it incrementally (remove sway on zooming or sway on movement or standing sway) or all at once and just see how things work out.

You retain the unpredictable hipfire > ADS aim direction like we have now to keep quickscoping limited, but remove the sway as above to make it more and more possible to do actual field sniping (which requires the ability to make relatively quick shots after or during re positioning, instead of redline sniper tendencies to just sit in one spot).

In terms of field sniping the sway is a huge deal, because you cant respond quickly and accurately because of sway, and you cant consistently get headshots or even consistent hits alot of the time because the sway keeps dragging you off target in an unpredictable way, which is a fatal flaw when you've got some guy with a rifle pecking at you or moving to get into his optimal before you can kill him.

It's an interesting proposal but it further shoe-horns snipers into the traditional slayer role. I'd much rather team-based features and additions that (AND I'M SORRY MIDDAS BUT IT'S TRUE) won't happen because #Dev-Tax.

I mean, can you imagine how awesome it would be to have a sniper on your team if they could actually spot targets like in Battlefield..? But this is far too much to ask.

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Vesta Opalus T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K General Tso's Alliance 319	Posted - 2015.01.21 18:42:00 - [31] - Quote Kodho wrote: Vesta, how would you propose we do that? There has to be more than fixing sway while standing. We can try having a sniper variant that removes sway, I think most people can agree sniper rifles are **** and have no real effect on battles, removing sway does not make redline sniping significantly stronger, so I think removing sway is an obvious way to make in field usefulness of sniper rifles better, which may or may not be OP, we can rebalance it later if its a problem. You can do it incrementally (remove sway on zooming or sway on movement or standing sway) or all at once and just see how things work out. You retain the unpredictable hipfire > ADS aim direction like we have now to keep quickscoping limited, but remove the sway as above to make it more and more possible to do actual field sniping (which requires the ability to make relatively quick shots after or during re positioning, instead of redline sniper tendencies to just sit in one spot). In terms of field sniping the sway is a huge deal, because you cant respond quickly and accurately because of sway, and you cant consistently get headshots or even consistent hits alot of the time because the sway keeps dragging you off target in an unpredictable way, which is a fatal flaw when you've got some guy with a rifle pecking at you or moving to get into his optimal before you can kill him.
Aeon Amadi Chimera Core 7935	Posted - 2015.01.21 20:30:00 - [32] - Quote Vesta Opalus wrote: Kodho wrote: Vesta, how would you propose we do that? There has to be more than fixing sway while standing. We can try having a sniper variant that removes sway, I think most people can agree sniper rifles are **** and have no real effect on battles, removing sway does not make redline sniping significantly stronger, so I think removing sway is an obvious way to make in field usefulness of sniper rifles better, which may or may not be OP, we can rebalance it later if its a problem. You can do it incrementally (remove sway on zooming or sway on movement or standing sway) or all at once and just see how things work out. You retain the unpredictable hipfire > ADS aim direction like we have now to keep quickscoping limited, but remove the sway as above to make it more and more possible to do actual field sniping (which requires the ability to make relatively quick shots after or during re positioning, instead of redline sniper tendencies to just sit in one spot). In terms of field sniping the sway is a huge deal, because you cant respond quickly and accurately because of sway, and you cant consistently get headshots or even consistent hits alot of the time because the sway keeps dragging you off target in an unpredictable way, which is a fatal flaw when you've got some guy with a rifle pecking at you or moving to get into his optimal before you can kill him. It's an interesting proposal but it further shoe-horns snipers into the traditional slayer role. I'd much rather team-based features and additions that (AND I'M SORRY MIDDAS BUT IT'S TRUE) won't happen because #Dev-Tax. I mean, can you imagine how awesome it would be to have a sniper on your team if they could actually spot targets like in Battlefield..? But this is far too much to ask. Sniper range nerf did nothing but make it harder to counter-snipe redliners. That and open up for really stupid feedback
Kodho Hidden Suppression 141	Posted - 2015.01.21 22:43:00 - [33] - Quote Thanks for your input Aeon. It's much appreciated. Long Live the Scout! Kodho
Middas Betancore Mantodea MC 401	Posted - 2015.01.21 23:50:00 - [34] - Quote Can kind of do it, sqd leader sniper using orders to mark things and a proto flux scanner... Still though....snipers with built in target painter/relay Look at it=Lights it up for ur sqd "Deploy the gas, we'll burn what's left"- Redacted
Middas Betancore Mantodea MC 401	Posted - 2015.01.21 23:58:00 - [35] - Quote As for DM shooting, or field sniping as u put it I do it on a calmando with tac sniper/assault rail I find the main issue is, even if they are beyond their optimal range and are hardly damaging me, the act of being hit still throws off tgthe shooters aim via "flinching" so id like to see that addressed But yes, incremental sway reduction, see how it goes, perhaps rather than having to crouch to stop sway, u just have to be below certain speed, standing or not "Deploy the gas, we'll burn what's left"- Redacted
Vesta Opalus T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K General Tso's Alliance 322	Posted - 2015.01.22 04:16:00 - [36] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Vesta Opalus wrote: Kodho wrote: Vesta, how would you propose we do that? There has to be more than fixing sway while standing. We can try having a sniper variant that removes sway, I think most people can agree sniper rifles are **** and have no real effect on battles, removing sway does not make redline sniping significantly stronger, so I think removing sway is an obvious way to make in field usefulness of sniper rifles better, which may or may not be OP, we can rebalance it later if its a problem. You can do it incrementally (remove sway on zooming or sway on movement or standing sway) or all at once and just see how things work out. You retain the unpredictable hipfire > ADS aim direction like we have now to keep quickscoping limited, but remove the sway as above to make it more and more possible to do actual field sniping (which requires the ability to make relatively quick shots after or during re positioning, instead of redline sniper tendencies to just sit in one spot). In terms of field sniping the sway is a huge deal, because you cant respond quickly and accurately because of sway, and you cant consistently get headshots or even consistent hits alot of the time because the sway keeps dragging you off target in an unpredictable way, which is a fatal flaw when you've got some guy with a rifle pecking at you or moving to get into his optimal before you can kill him. It's an interesting proposal but it further shoe-horns snipers into the traditional slayer role. I'd much rather team-based features and additions that (AND I'M SORRY MIDDAS BUT IT'S TRUE) won't happen because #Dev-Tax. I mean, can you imagine how awesome it would be to have a sniper on your team if they could actually spot targets like in Battlefield..? But this is far too much to ask. I agree, however to be competitive every suit needs to meet a sort of baseline slaying ability (except for maybe logis), and right now snipers are below even logis in this.
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 1061	Posted - 2015.01.22 04:41:00 - [37] - Quote hold that wrote: Hey that's not that bad of an idea tho if CCP could easily implement it. I'd say 50 meters bonus. Another thing that could bring more snipers out is if they got rid or reduced sway while standing up. Every map has built-in disruptions made specifically for snipers. The reason they are in the hills, is because there are no good spots on the ground. Have you ever tried using one? I mean seriously using one. Not just piddling around with one for about an hour. Putting actual investment into a Sniper, and trying to get into a fight? You can't do that. CCP made sure of it with the ground layout. Where else can you shoot from? The only other spots are up high, or within the redline. You should be asking CCP to make the maps more Sniper accessible. If such a thing happened, they probably won't stay in the edges for long. As for the other reason, why there are so many Snipers? You should ask the Proto Corps why they Queue synch or wear Proto armor constantly. Bluntly put, the casual players were rejected from the central battlefield, hence sniping was the only venue left for many of them. In other words, it's the fault of most of the people who complain about snipers doing nothing, who were the source of the snipers doing nothing to begin with. http://youtu.be/dtXupQg77SU Dust to Dust Remember the dream you had before the day you were born.
Raptor Princess ALLOTEC INC 131	Posted - 2015.01.22 07:31:00 - [38] - Quote Middas Betancore wrote: Can kind of do it, sqd leader sniper using orders to mark things and a proto flux scanner... Still though....snipers with built in target painter/relay Look at it=Lights it up for ur sqd I would love it if all snipers could flag an enemy to the rest of the squad/team without being squad lead! I always find myself placing attack orders on cloaked scouts so they can't sneak up behind my squad mates if I'm sniping. If you've got a sniper with comms on your squad, they can be very useful for relaying information about where the enemy are. It's not a great way to make points, but it can really help the squad :)
The Eristic Dust 90210 706	Posted - 2015.01.22 10:25:00 - [39] - Quote My Cal char has Pro Calmando and Snipers, use him a couple times a week. I agree that it's mainly lack of positioning opportunities, especially with a slow AND squishy suit like Calmando, that just about force you into the redline. Not many non-redline places on most maps to get good elevation for the FoV a traditional sniper needs. You can pseudo-mobile snipe with the Tac but not really like one would hope (sway or time-to-stable should be lowered to make it a more viable playstyle), but if you're using vanilla or Charge, you're essentially stuck in place for a while, so you'd better find a good spot. Also, seeming (note: "seeming", not necessarily "being") inaccessible to the enemy in order to demoralize them is also an important aspect of sniping, and once again, the majority of the places that don't amount to sitting in the middle of an open field in terms of defensibility can only be found in the redline. (As an aside, can we get a basic and advanced Charge, please? Seems like it should be the default sniper type anyway, what with the whole Caldari charge up mechanic!) Reality is the original Rorschach. Verily! So much for all that.
Kodho Hidden Suppression 143	Posted - 2015.01.22 19:14:00 - [40] - Quote Ok. What I gather from the conversation is that sway while standing and map design are the two biggest factors that are hampering snipers at the moment. It seems that most believe that if these two items are addressed, the redline issue will somewhat be eliminated. Thanks to everyone who has provided constructive and civil input into this matter. CCP, please hear our opinions on this matter! Long Live the Scout! Kodho

Vesta Opalus T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K General Tso's Alliance 326	Posted - 2015.01.22 19:28:00 - [41] - Quote Kodho wrote: Ok. What I gather from the conversation is that sway while standing and map design are the two biggest factors that are hampering snipers at the moment. It seems that most believe that if these two items are addressed, the redline issue will somewhat be eliminated. Thanks to everyone who has provided constructive and civil input into this matter. CCP, please hear our opinions on this matter! Its not just sway while standing, you have 3 kinds of sway: Sway while standing (never goes away), sway just after zoom (will go away if you stay zoomed for ~1 second or so), sway from movement (will go away if you stop moving after a second or so) All of these combined make it nearly impossible to respond effectively to a target unless you have an unrealistic amount of time given that you have to hit someone quite a bit, unless you headshot them, to kill them or gain enough advantage to deter them or finish them with a sidearm.
Kodho Hidden Suppression 143	Posted - 2015.01.22 19:55:00 - [42] - Quote Nice recap Vesta. Thanks! Long Live the Scout! Kodho


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