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Vesta Opalus
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
General Tso's Alliance
309
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Posted - 2015.01.20 17:24:00 -
[1] - Quote
Kodho wrote:As we all know the range nerf on sniper rifles has not limited the amount of redline sniping that occurs during a match. I has also been a contributing factor in the inability to counter the said redline snipers. Here's an idea that may have been mentioned before but may help elevate both problems at once.
If you snipe from inside your redline the existing ranges apply. However, if you snipe outside of your redline, your range will go up a certain amount (100 meters?). This will allow redline snipers to be countered and force them to move out of the redline in order to compete at range with those who are countering them. Or, assume the higher risk of being killed with no ability to kill the counter sniper.
I'm in know way suggesting this as a definate solution to the sniping issue. I just wanted to start the discussion and see if it is a viable solution. However, it does seem to solve three of the big issues that concern the current state of snipers (range, counter play and redline).
Let's here everyone's thoughts on this.
Countersniping is more viable than ever. Learn some subtlety and its not a big deal to work your way into range and kill them.
Countersniping is all I do with the sniper rifle now, I almost never settle into a game and snipe right off the bat, I always pull them out in response to some guy who's making trouble. The real problem with the sniper rifle is that it still sucks compared to any other style of play. Literally any other. I can do better with a PLC trolling fit than with a sniper. |
Vesta Opalus
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
General Tso's Alliance
317
|
Posted - 2015.01.21 00:23:00 -
[2] - Quote
LUGMOS wrote:Vesta Opalus wrote:Kodho wrote:As we all know the range nerf on sniper rifles has not limited the amount of redline sniping that occurs during a match. I has also been a contributing factor in the inability to counter the said redline snipers. Here's an idea that may have been mentioned before but may help elevate both problems at once.
If you snipe from inside your redline the existing ranges apply. However, if you snipe outside of your redline, your range will go up a certain amount (100 meters?). This will allow redline snipers to be countered and force them to move out of the redline in order to compete at range with those who are countering them. Or, assume the higher risk of being killed with no ability to kill the counter sniper.
I'm in know way suggesting this as a definate solution to the sniping issue. I just wanted to start the discussion and see if it is a viable solution. However, it does seem to solve three of the big issues that concern the current state of snipers (range, counter play and redline).
Let's here everyone's thoughts on this. Countersniping is more viable than ever. Learn some subtlety and its not a big deal to work your way into range and kill them. Countersniping is all I do with the sniper rifle now, I almost never settle into a game and snipe right off the bat, I always pull them out in response to some guy who's making trouble. The real problem with the sniper rifle is that it still sucks compared to any other style of play. Literally any other. I can do better with a PLC trolling fit than with a sniper. Edited to add: if you want to fix redline sniping you need to fix the reason people tend to snipe from the redline. That reason primarily is that snipers are incredibly vulnerable while using their primary weapon due to the sway + crouch requirements. Being this vulnerable forces people to play in the redline for any kind of safety, especially with the prevalence of scans and scouts in the game. Long ranges enable this tactical retreat into the redline but long ranges are not the REASON for redline sniping. So counter sniping is the best thing its good at,so its fine? Seems legit. The last bit I agree with though.
The main complaint was countersniping was less viable. I disagree and think its more viable than ever. Like I said if we want to make sniping useful and bring it out of the red line (which I'd love) thats a different discussion from what the OP started out with. |
Vesta Opalus
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
General Tso's Alliance
317
|
Posted - 2015.01.21 00:25:00 -
[3] - Quote
KILL3R H3LLH0UND wrote:hold that wrote:Vesta Opalus wrote:Countersniping is more viable than ever. Learn some subtlety and its not a big deal to work your way into range and kill them.
Countersniping is all I do with the sniper rifle now, I almost never settle into a game and snipe right off the bat, I always pull them out in response to some guy who's making trouble. The real problem with the sniper rifle is that it still sucks compared to any other style of play. Literally any other. I can do better with a PLC trolling fit than with a sniper.
Edited to add: if you want to fix redline sniping you need to fix the reason people tend to snipe from the redline. That reason primarily is that snipers are incredibly vulnerable while using their primary weapon due to the sway + crouch requirements. Being this vulnerable forces people to play in the redline for any kind of safety, especially with the prevalence of scans and scouts in the game. Long ranges enable this tactical retreat into the redline but long ranges are not the REASON for redline sniping. Amen. Get rid of sway when standing or have a sp sink that gets rid of it. I have level 5 and I almost don't even notice the sway. read the skills.
If you dont notice the sway you might want to head to the ophthalmologist and get your eyes checked, you might be blind. |
Vesta Opalus
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
General Tso's Alliance
319
|
Posted - 2015.01.21 18:42:00 -
[4] - Quote
Kodho wrote:Vesta, how would you propose we do that? There has to be more than fixing sway while standing.
We can try having a sniper variant that removes sway, I think most people can agree sniper rifles are **** and have no real effect on battles, removing sway does not make redline sniping significantly stronger, so I think removing sway is an obvious way to make in field usefulness of sniper rifles better, which may or may not be OP, we can rebalance it later if its a problem.
You can do it incrementally (remove sway on zooming or sway on movement or standing sway) or all at once and just see how things work out.
You retain the unpredictable hipfire > ADS aim direction like we have now to keep quickscoping limited, but remove the sway as above to make it more and more possible to do actual field sniping (which requires the ability to make relatively quick shots after or during re positioning, instead of redline sniper tendencies to just sit in one spot).
In terms of field sniping the sway is a huge deal, because you cant respond quickly and accurately because of sway, and you cant consistently get headshots or even consistent hits alot of the time because the sway keeps dragging you off target in an unpredictable way, which is a fatal flaw when you've got some guy with a rifle pecking at you or moving to get into his optimal before you can kill him. |
Vesta Opalus
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
General Tso's Alliance
322
|
Posted - 2015.01.22 04:16:00 -
[5] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Vesta Opalus wrote:Kodho wrote:Vesta, how would you propose we do that? There has to be more than fixing sway while standing. We can try having a sniper variant that removes sway, I think most people can agree sniper rifles are **** and have no real effect on battles, removing sway does not make redline sniping significantly stronger, so I think removing sway is an obvious way to make in field usefulness of sniper rifles better, which may or may not be OP, we can rebalance it later if its a problem. You can do it incrementally (remove sway on zooming or sway on movement or standing sway) or all at once and just see how things work out. You retain the unpredictable hipfire > ADS aim direction like we have now to keep quickscoping limited, but remove the sway as above to make it more and more possible to do actual field sniping (which requires the ability to make relatively quick shots after or during re positioning, instead of redline sniper tendencies to just sit in one spot). In terms of field sniping the sway is a huge deal, because you cant respond quickly and accurately because of sway, and you cant consistently get headshots or even consistent hits alot of the time because the sway keeps dragging you off target in an unpredictable way, which is a fatal flaw when you've got some guy with a rifle pecking at you or moving to get into his optimal before you can kill him. It's an interesting proposal but it further shoe-horns snipers into the traditional slayer role. I'd much rather team-based features and additions that (AND I'M SORRY MIDDAS BUT IT'S TRUE) won't happen because #Dev-Tax. I mean, can you imagine how awesome it would be to have a sniper on your team if they could actually spot targets like in Battlefield..? But this is far too much to ask.
I agree, however to be competitive every suit needs to meet a sort of baseline slaying ability (except for maybe logis), and right now snipers are below even logis in this. |
Vesta Opalus
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
General Tso's Alliance
326
|
Posted - 2015.01.22 19:28:00 -
[6] - Quote
Kodho wrote:Ok. What I gather from the conversation is that sway while standing and map design are the two biggest factors that are hampering snipers at the moment. It seems that most believe that if these two items are addressed, the redline issue will somewhat be eliminated.
Thanks to everyone who has provided constructive and civil input into this matter. CCP, please hear our opinions on this matter!
Its not just sway while standing, you have 3 kinds of sway: Sway while standing (never goes away), sway just after zoom (will go away if you stay zoomed for ~1 second or so), sway from movement (will go away if you stop moving after a second or so)
All of these combined make it nearly impossible to respond effectively to a target unless you have an unrealistic amount of time given that you have to hit someone quite a bit, unless you headshot them, to kill them or gain enough advantage to deter them or finish them with a sidearm. |
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