DUST Search - idea to fix redline sniping

LUGMOS wrote:

Vesta Opalus wrote:

Kodho wrote:

As we all know the range nerf on sniper rifles has not limited the amount of redline sniping that occurs during a match. I has also been a contributing factor in the inability to counter the said redline snipers. Here's an idea that may have been mentioned before but may help elevate both problems at once.

If you snipe from inside your redline the existing ranges apply. However, if you snipe outside of your redline, your range will go up a certain amount (100 meters?). This will allow redline snipers to be countered and force them to move out of the redline in order to compete at range with those who are countering them. Or, assume the higher risk of being killed with no ability to kill the counter sniper.

I'm in know way suggesting this as a definate solution to the sniping issue. I just wanted to start the discussion and see if it is a viable solution. However, it does seem to solve three of the big issues that concern the current state of snipers (range, counter play and redline).

Let's here everyone's thoughts on this.

Countersniping is more viable than ever. Learn some subtlety and its not a big deal to work your way into range and kill them.

Countersniping is all I do with the sniper rifle now, I almost never settle into a game and snipe right off the bat, I always pull them out in response to some guy who's making trouble. The real problem with the sniper rifle is that it still sucks compared to any other style of play. Literally any other. I can do better with a PLC trolling fit than with a sniper.

Edited to add: if you want to fix redline sniping you need to fix the reason people tend to snipe from the redline. That reason primarily is that snipers are incredibly vulnerable while using their primary weapon due to the sway + crouch requirements. Being this vulnerable forces people to play in the redline for any kind of safety, especially with the prevalence of scans and scouts in the game. Long ranges enable this tactical retreat into the redline but long ranges are not the REASON for redline sniping.

So counter sniping is the best thing its good at,so its fine? Seems legit.

The last bit I agree with though.

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Kodho Hidden Suppression 138	Posted - 2015.01.20 14:03:00 - [1] - Quote As we all know the range nerf on sniper rifles has not limited the amount of redline sniping that occurs during a match. I has also been a contributing factor in the inability to counter the said redline snipers. Here's an idea that may have been mentioned before but may help elevate both problems at once. If you snipe from inside your redline the existing ranges apply. However, if you snipe outside of your redline, your range will go up a certain amount (100 meters?). This will allow redline snipers to be countered and force them to move out of the redline in order to compete at range with those who are countering them. Or, assume the higher risk of being killed with no ability to kill the counter sniper. I'm in know way suggesting this as a definate solution to the sniping issue. I just wanted to start the discussion and see if it is a viable solution. However, it does seem to solve three of the big issues that concern the current state of snipers (range, counter play and redline). Let's here everyone's thoughts on this. Long Live the Scout! Kodho
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1933	Posted - 2015.01.20 14:29:00 - [2] - Quote The sniping 'issue' is that the weapon is worthless, the game has been actively changed to prevent it from being useful (cover added, points being inside structures etc) it's nearly impossible to actually use the weapon and if you were a 'good sniper' you'd likely be 1000x more useful with a rail or scram. Snipers may as well be afk for the use they are to their team. The only exception is in ambush really and even that is seldom one. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Kodho Hidden Suppression 138	Posted - 2015.01.20 15:51:00 - [3] - Quote Would this be a step in the right direction? Long Live the Scout! Kodho
hold that Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 565	Posted - 2015.01.20 16:05:00 - [4] - Quote Hey that's not that bad of an idea tho if CCP could easily implement it. I'd say 50 meters bonus. Another thing that could bring more snipers out is if they got rid or reduced sway while standing up.
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1935	Posted - 2015.01.20 16:45:00 - [5] - Quote Kodho wrote: Would this be a step in the right direction? Unlikely. Sniping is a very passive style of game play, people who snipe get into a high spot and plink at anyone that crosses their field of view, usually failing to do anything meaningful to them (strafing, hit detection & high hp are all factors). Many never move from their designated 'spot' and contribute nothing to the objective based nature of the game. It boils down to three things: snipers are not playing the objectives, snipers are not killing people (or not in substantial enough manners to influence a match), snipers cannot function meaningfully in a support role. Snipers are not mechanically capable of being good or valuable teammates. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Middas Betancore Mantodea MC 383	Posted - 2015.01.20 17:04:00 - [6] - Quote Simply hitting a moving target is what makes sniping so difficult Im not sure if there's a problem with hit detection, I simply put it down to character movement being so twitchy and the general M.O. is to constantly twitch Overall if ppl refuse to engage the enemy and wish to stay in the redline there's not much one can do to stop this entirely We could implement a "no wp" in the redline policy, but that inadvertently punishes those who are tactically forced into the redline The maps are partly the problem, quite small and with few areas where snipers can effectively position, not to say there are no areas at all that are unfeasible for sniping, but in a game where you have to hack terminals in built up areas a sniper becomes less useful Not sure what exactly needs to change in sniping, I think higher base damage and better scaling through tiers But as for redline sniping, it will always be a thing, snipers like to hide, where better than where the enemy cannot fully engage you "Deploy the gas, we'll burn what's left"- Redacted
Vesta Opalus T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K General Tso's Alliance 309	Posted - 2015.01.20 17:24:00 - [7] - Quote Kodho wrote: As we all know the range nerf on sniper rifles has not limited the amount of redline sniping that occurs during a match. I has also been a contributing factor in the inability to counter the said redline snipers. Here's an idea that may have been mentioned before but may help elevate both problems at once. If you snipe from inside your redline the existing ranges apply. However, if you snipe outside of your redline, your range will go up a certain amount (100 meters?). This will allow redline snipers to be countered and force them to move out of the redline in order to compete at range with those who are countering them. Or, assume the higher risk of being killed with no ability to kill the counter sniper. I'm in know way suggesting this as a definate solution to the sniping issue. I just wanted to start the discussion and see if it is a viable solution. However, it does seem to solve three of the big issues that concern the current state of snipers (range, counter play and redline). Let's here everyone's thoughts on this. Countersniping is more viable than ever. Learn some subtlety and its not a big deal to work your way into range and kill them. Countersniping is all I do with the sniper rifle now, I almost never settle into a game and snipe right off the bat, I always pull them out in response to some guy who's making trouble. The real problem with the sniper rifle is that it still sucks compared to any other style of play. Literally any other. I can do better with a PLC trolling fit than with a sniper.
J0LLY R0G3R And the ButtPirates 1837	Posted - 2015.01.20 17:40:00 - [8] - Quote Kodho wrote: As we all know the range nerf on sniper rifles has not limited the amount of redline sniping that occurs during a match. I has also been a contributing factor in the inability to counter the said redline snipers. Here's an idea that may have been mentioned before but may help elevate both problems at once. If you snipe from inside your redline the existing ranges apply. However, if you snipe outside of your redline, your range will go up a certain amount (100 meters?). This will allow redline snipers to be countered and force them to move out of the redline in order to compete at range with those who are countering them. Or, assume the higher risk of being killed with no ability to kill the counter sniper. I'm in know way suggesting this as a definate solution to the sniping issue. I just wanted to start the discussion and see if it is a viable solution. However, it does seem to solve three of the big issues that concern the current state of snipers (range, counter play and redline). Let's here everyone's thoughts on this. So an enemy can shoot farther into ur redline than u can shoot back out of? Range seems good at where it is. They just need to make the gun better (quicker) at acquiring the target. (Less sway possibly) I think that's the reason people are afraid to get out of their redline. Just easier and safer to stay there than risk being in the range of a quicker gun. But hey I'm not a 'specialist' lol. XD TLDR : Last Dust Montage
Kodho Hidden Suppression 139	Posted - 2015.01.20 18:37:00 - [9] - Quote The Hanks for the input everyone. Like I said in my original post, I'm not sure this is a viable fix for the situation. However, in order to fix the situation that snipers are currently in, we must think out of the box to come up with a solution. This is my take on the situation. I am a sniper. I do find myself in the redline a lot. However, I will engaugement on objectives when my help is needed. I do think sniping is a viable method in helping your team. Unfortunately, map design and current game mechanics related to snipers have severely hampered this viability. All I'm asking for is constructive discussion on this matter. Don't hate. Based on where the game is heading for snipers, I believe something needs to be done to save this role. If not, you might as well remove all sniper weapons from the game. For me, a dedicated sniper, that would prevent me from playing the game I love. Long Live the Scout! Kodho
Operative 1174 Uuali Y.A.M.A.H 369	Posted - 2015.01.20 18:44:00 - [10] - Quote Increase the map sizes back to before Uprising and we snipers can return to being outside the redline to get into useful positions. Problem solved. I always had people coming after me and then CCP reduced the map sizes so when I got into some of my previous positions, albeit edited by the new terrain and layouts, I was suddenly in the redline and everybody started b*tching about redline sniping. So now I went to assault dropshipping and pop people while hovering right overhead. I never get more than an average of 3 to 5 kills no matter what I play (unless it's a heavy) so ADS is like sniper rifle for me. And sniping for me is no less useful to the team because I atill get 3 to 5 kills average with assaults and even as a sniper or ADS pilot I run around dropping uplinks most times. I'm better than laser focused; I'm hybrid focused.

Kodho Hidden Suppression 140	Posted - 2015.01.20 21:41:00 - [11] - Quote Thanks for input! Long Live the Scout! Kodho
Kodho Hidden Suppression 140	Posted - 2015.01.20 21:44:00 - [12] - Quote I would really like some dev input if possible! Long Live the Scout! Kodho
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. 3162	Posted - 2015.01.20 21:49:00 - [13] - Quote If CCP wanted to "Fix" Red-line sniping they would of. They would of made a counter that players could operate in the red-line while still getting points then after it is done they no longer score kills or war points for anything in the red-line. Or installed a giant one sided force-field like PS2. CCP Shanghai doesn't want to fix red-line sniping.... You can tell by their actions... or lack there of. Snipers would require CCP to actually put effort into crafting maps and you see them release brand new sockets with the same roof problems and lack of ladders and terrible turret placements that has plagued every map that has came before. CCP's ability to learn from actions and mistakes = 0.
LUGMOS Quafe Premium 1613	Posted - 2015.01.20 22:11:00 - [14] - Quote Vesta Opalus wrote: Kodho wrote: As we all know the range nerf on sniper rifles has not limited the amount of redline sniping that occurs during a match. I has also been a contributing factor in the inability to counter the said redline snipers. Here's an idea that may have been mentioned before but may help elevate both problems at once. If you snipe from inside your redline the existing ranges apply. However, if you snipe outside of your redline, your range will go up a certain amount (100 meters?). This will allow redline snipers to be countered and force them to move out of the redline in order to compete at range with those who are countering them. Or, assume the higher risk of being killed with no ability to kill the counter sniper. I'm in know way suggesting this as a definate solution to the sniping issue. I just wanted to start the discussion and see if it is a viable solution. However, it does seem to solve three of the big issues that concern the current state of snipers (range, counter play and redline). Let's here everyone's thoughts on this. Countersniping is more viable than ever. Learn some subtlety and its not a big deal to work your way into range and kill them. Countersniping is all I do with the sniper rifle now, I almost never settle into a game and snipe right off the bat, I always pull them out in response to some guy who's making trouble. The real problem with the sniper rifle is that it still sucks compared to any other style of play. Literally any other. I can do better with a PLC trolling fit than with a sniper. Edited to add: if you want to fix redline sniping you need to fix the reason people tend to snipe from the redline. That reason primarily is that snipers are incredibly vulnerable while using their primary weapon due to the sway + crouch requirements. Being this vulnerable forces people to play in the redline for any kind of safety, especially with the prevalence of scans and scouts in the game. Long ranges enable this tactical retreat into the redline but long ranges are not the REASON for redline sniping. So counter sniping is the best thing its good at,so its fine? Seems legit. The last bit I agree with though. Official QuafeGäó Advocate Anti-FoTM Prof. V Forum Scavenger Prof. V
hold that Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 567	Posted - 2015.01.20 23:33:00 - [15] - Quote Vesta Opalus wrote: Countersniping is more viable than ever. Learn some subtlety and its not a big deal to work your way into range and kill them. Countersniping is all I do with the sniper rifle now, I almost never settle into a game and snipe right off the bat, I always pull them out in response to some guy who's making trouble. The real problem with the sniper rifle is that it still sucks compared to any other style of play. Literally any other. I can do better with a PLC trolling fit than with a sniper. Edited to add: if you want to fix redline sniping you need to fix the reason people tend to snipe from the redline. That reason primarily is that snipers are incredibly vulnerable while using their primary weapon due to the sway + crouch requirements. Being this vulnerable forces people to play in the redline for any kind of safety, especially with the prevalence of scans and scouts in the game. Long ranges enable this tactical retreat into the redline but long ranges are not the REASON for redline sniping. Amen. Get rid of sway when standing or have a sp sink that gets rid of it.
KILL3R H3LLH0UND The Mercenaries of P.A.S.T 224	Posted - 2015.01.20 23:41:00 - [16] - Quote hold that wrote: Vesta Opalus wrote: Countersniping is more viable than ever. Learn some subtlety and its not a big deal to work your way into range and kill them. Countersniping is all I do with the sniper rifle now, I almost never settle into a game and snipe right off the bat, I always pull them out in response to some guy who's making trouble. The real problem with the sniper rifle is that it still sucks compared to any other style of play. Literally any other. I can do better with a PLC trolling fit than with a sniper. Edited to add: if you want to fix redline sniping you need to fix the reason people tend to snipe from the redline. That reason primarily is that snipers are incredibly vulnerable while using their primary weapon due to the sway + crouch requirements. Being this vulnerable forces people to play in the redline for any kind of safety, especially with the prevalence of scans and scouts in the game. Long ranges enable this tactical retreat into the redline but long ranges are not the REASON for redline sniping. Amen. Get rid of sway when standing or have a sp sink that gets rid of it. I have level 5 and I almost don't even notice the sway. read the skills. Ex-Master Scout Trainer, been falling in love with my Minja again. I <3 my Gû¼+¦GòÉGòÉn¦ñ
Bremen van Equis BASTARDS OF BEDLAM 135	Posted - 2015.01.20 23:45:00 - [17] - Quote Make time spent behind the redline a leaderboard stat. Buckle up, boysGÇªthis ramp leads to space. -Axe Cop
VECTORS ABROAD WRECK THE DAY 13	Posted - 2015.01.20 23:46:00 - [18] - Quote I say that you must make it so bad in being in the redline that it will force people out. Such as that everyone can see you regardless of how damped you are or reduce the redline to basically nothing or something. Life sucks sometimes, much like Dust 514.
JUDASisMYhomeboy xCosmic Voidx 285	Posted - 2015.01.20 23:50:00 - [19] - Quote The jackass in a tank railsniping concerns me more "In a world gone mad,only a lunatic is truly insane" Homer J Simpson
Vesta Opalus T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K General Tso's Alliance 317	Posted - 2015.01.21 00:23:00 - [20] - Quote LUGMOS wrote: Vesta Opalus wrote: Kodho wrote: As we all know the range nerf on sniper rifles has not limited the amount of redline sniping that occurs during a match. I has also been a contributing factor in the inability to counter the said redline snipers. Here's an idea that may have been mentioned before but may help elevate both problems at once. If you snipe from inside your redline the existing ranges apply. However, if you snipe outside of your redline, your range will go up a certain amount (100 meters?). This will allow redline snipers to be countered and force them to move out of the redline in order to compete at range with those who are countering them. Or, assume the higher risk of being killed with no ability to kill the counter sniper. I'm in know way suggesting this as a definate solution to the sniping issue. I just wanted to start the discussion and see if it is a viable solution. However, it does seem to solve three of the big issues that concern the current state of snipers (range, counter play and redline). Let's here everyone's thoughts on this. Countersniping is more viable than ever. Learn some subtlety and its not a big deal to work your way into range and kill them. Countersniping is all I do with the sniper rifle now, I almost never settle into a game and snipe right off the bat, I always pull them out in response to some guy who's making trouble. The real problem with the sniper rifle is that it still sucks compared to any other style of play. Literally any other. I can do better with a PLC trolling fit than with a sniper. Edited to add: if you want to fix redline sniping you need to fix the reason people tend to snipe from the redline. That reason primarily is that snipers are incredibly vulnerable while using their primary weapon due to the sway + crouch requirements. Being this vulnerable forces people to play in the redline for any kind of safety, especially with the prevalence of scans and scouts in the game. Long ranges enable this tactical retreat into the redline but long ranges are not the REASON for redline sniping. So counter sniping is the best thing its good at,so its fine? Seems legit. The last bit I agree with though. The main complaint was countersniping was less viable. I disagree and think its more viable than ever. Like I said if we want to make sniping useful and bring it out of the red line (which I'd love) thats a different discussion from what the OP started out with.

Vesta Opalus T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K General Tso's Alliance 317	Posted - 2015.01.21 00:25:00 - [21] - Quote KILL3R H3LLH0UND wrote: hold that wrote: Vesta Opalus wrote: Countersniping is more viable than ever. Learn some subtlety and its not a big deal to work your way into range and kill them. Countersniping is all I do with the sniper rifle now, I almost never settle into a game and snipe right off the bat, I always pull them out in response to some guy who's making trouble. The real problem with the sniper rifle is that it still sucks compared to any other style of play. Literally any other. I can do better with a PLC trolling fit than with a sniper. Edited to add: if you want to fix redline sniping you need to fix the reason people tend to snipe from the redline. That reason primarily is that snipers are incredibly vulnerable while using their primary weapon due to the sway + crouch requirements. Being this vulnerable forces people to play in the redline for any kind of safety, especially with the prevalence of scans and scouts in the game. Long ranges enable this tactical retreat into the redline but long ranges are not the REASON for redline sniping. Amen. Get rid of sway when standing or have a sp sink that gets rid of it. I have level 5 and I almost don't even notice the sway. read the skills. If you dont notice the sway you might want to head to the ophthalmologist and get your eyes checked, you might be blind.
Kodho Hidden Suppression 140	Posted - 2015.01.21 00:27:00 - [22] - Quote Vesta, how would you propose we do that? There has to be more than fixing sway while standing. Long Live the Scout! Kodho
Yokal Bob Titans of Phoenix VP Gaming Alliance 665	Posted - 2015.01.21 00:32:00 - [23] - Quote snore /{o.o}/ ---L Inflatable hammer strikes again
hold that Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 568	Posted - 2015.01.21 08:24:00 - [24] - Quote KILL3R H3LLH0UND wrote: hold that wrote: Vesta Opalus wrote: Countersniping is more viable than ever. Learn some subtlety and its not a big deal to work your way into range and kill them. Countersniping is all I do with the sniper rifle now, I almost never settle into a game and snipe right off the bat, I always pull them out in response to some guy who's making trouble. The real problem with the sniper rifle is that it still sucks compared to any other style of play. Literally any other. I can do better with a PLC trolling fit than with a sniper. Edited to add: if you want to fix redline sniping you need to fix the reason people tend to snipe from the redline. That reason primarily is that snipers are incredibly vulnerable while using their primary weapon due to the sway + crouch requirements. Being this vulnerable forces people to play in the redline for any kind of safety, especially with the prevalence of scans and scouts in the game. Long ranges enable this tactical retreat into the redline but long ranges are not the REASON for redline sniping. Amen. Get rid of sway when standing or have a sp sink that gets rid of it. I have level 5 and I almost don't even notice the sway. read the skills. i have level 5 in everything sniper, i notice the sway. esp. while standing.
Aeon Amadi Chimera Core 7922	Posted - 2015.01.21 10:18:00 - [25] - Quote This thread is hilarious to me. Mostly because anyone actually thinks that either CCP, the CPM, or the community at large is willing to do anything for snipers besides remove them from the game entirely as a mercy killing. Ideas that make snipers more team-oriented in the form of a support role are too dev taxing. Anything beyond that is considered 'bias' and 'intentionally benefitting snipers'. Larger maps wouldn't do anything but raise more frustration out of the players who actually have to walk from point a to point b. Changing redline mechanics will never happen because it hasn't happened already. More sniper opportunities in sockets will never happen because CCP intentionally designed them to be anti-sniper and this mentality continues even with current map changes (Manus Peak objective A now has more cover, for instance). Almost every player who ever bothered to even run dedicated sniper has sense quit, moving on to things that are more competitive or viable because they realize that there will never be a fix to sniping as long as no-one is listening. The simple fact of the matter is a grim reality, but a reality none-the-less: No-one gives a kitten. But incidentally, the most amusing thing about this, is what the playerbase expects the losing team to do once they've been forced into their redline. It's either snipe or go AFK unless you just want to be farmed for kills, which no-one seems to have an issue with. They do, however, have an issue with being shot at by someone they can't kill in the eventuality that they're winning. Sniper range nerf did nothing but make it harder to counter-snipe redliners. That and open up for really stupid feedback
Middas Betancore Mantodea MC 395	Posted - 2015.01.21 10:32:00 - [26] - Quote The most amusing thing about this thread is u writing up such a large whiny post Chumpette "Deploy the gas, we'll burn what's left"- Redacted
Aeon Amadi Chimera Core 7922	Posted - 2015.01.21 11:08:00 - [27] - Quote Middas Betancore wrote: The most amusing thing about this thread is u writing up such a large whiny post Chumpette Prove me wrong, rabbit ears. Sniper range nerf did nothing but make it harder to counter-snipe redliners. That and open up for really stupid feedback
xavier zor Rogue Instincts 447	Posted - 2015.01.21 11:10:00 - [28] - Quote why not just fix the whole 'scope-wobble when you move' thing, and reduce the scope magnification so it can be used out of the redline closer to enemies. Coming from destiny, the sniping in destiny is not camper-like. It is all camper-like sniping in dust Stabbed to death: Radar R4D-47, duna2002, killed again more to come...
Middas Betancore Mantodea MC 395	Posted - 2015.01.21 11:27:00 - [29] - Quote How did u know I have the ears of the mighty hoppity hop? Prove what wrong? That redline sniping can't be fixed? Technically it can't as it's a choice...either ppl are allowed to make that choice or not?? All I can think is making it more versatile so redline isn't ur only option Variable zoom, reduced sway when standing/moving, tweaking char movement to make target prediction easier Im not very good at balancing though I get why we nerfed snipers, just not sure exactly how we slide it back to a more reasonable state But moaning an dev bashing only sets us back mmmk Though I am aware of the severity of your bittervet syndrome "Deploy the gas, we'll burn what's left"- Redacted
Divillrii Montross GNGPSTL 2	Posted - 2015.01.21 12:21:00 - [30] - Quote You know, i'm not so sure this needs a fix. I used to be a dedicated sniper, full proto'd it out first thing, etc. I now run proto commando w/ proto combat rifle + charged sniper rifle. A point I'd like to make is that there is no point a Merc can snipe from that cannot be hit by another sniper. Redlined or no. Part of the core of this game is improvisation. The map changes force snipers (as well as everyone else) to improvise. To find more efficient ways of aiding your team as a sniper. And many of the best sniping spots can be hit by 'nades and sidearms. Yes, the weapon sway is annoying, so crouch. Yes, crouching isn't always the smartest thing to do, so carry a proper sidearm weapon. Yes, carrying a sidearm can use too much of your resources, so improvise. It's that simple. Redline sniping is annoying, but there are worse things, (such as when someone is using a very rare officer variant weapon on a very squishy suit...) You don't have to reduce the zoom and the viable distance, that's what tactical versions are for. This game gives you a choice, you can stay still or keep moving. The more and faster you move, the longer you'll live. Snipers are simply the other end of the spectrum, right past Heavys and Forge gunners. If CCP were to make any map changes, I would suggest adding underground bunker/city type maps like what you would find in 007 or judge dredd ps2 games. If you truly want to do away with redline sniping, you could try removing the redline completely, forcing Mercs to drop from their MCC and capture their ground spawns. The only redline would be around the borders of the map, and it's lethal to all. A gentleman knows when to draw his pistol... but sometimes overkill is necessary. Live to Kill or Die Maiming!



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