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Kain Spero Internal Error. 4213	Posted - 2015.01.15 10:54:00 - [1] - Quote Change the kill and assist logic to give the kill and kill WP to the player that causes the most damage to a target. This would apply to infantry, vehicles, and turrets. Player that lands a kill shot gets an assist and a new "final blow" wp reward. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
Jonny D Buelle Mors Effera 407	Posted - 2015.01.15 11:01:00 - [2] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: Change the kill and assist logic to give the kill and kill WP to the player that causes the most damage to a target. This would apply to infantry, vehicles, and turrets. Player that lands a kill shot gets an assist and a new "final blow" wp reward. I can see a lot of people being upset at this while also a lot being for this. My argument for this is how will it show up on the killboard as it only shows us K/D WP? Also what if it was a situation that if someone didn't finish my opponent I would of died, who deserves the kill then? Also what if I did die, would I still get the kill? If so how would that be fair? Drink until you can't drink no more. Then grab another bottle and drink some more! - Demetrious 'Jonny' Buelle.
Kain Spero Internal Error. 4213	Posted - 2015.01.15 11:11:00 - [3] - Quote Jonny D Buelle wrote: Kain Spero wrote: Change the kill and assist logic to give the kill and kill WP to the player that causes the most damage to a target. This would apply to infantry, vehicles, and turrets. Player that lands a kill shot gets an assist and a new "final blow" wp reward. I can see a lot of people being upset at this while also a lot being for this. My argument for this is how will it show up on the killboard as it only shows us K/D WP? Also what if it was a situation that if someone didn't finish my opponent I would of died, who deserves the kill then? Also what if I did die, would I still get the kill? If so how would that be fair? Maybe you tie it just to the WP reward and not the stat itself? I'm on the fence about who gets the kill stat on the leaderboard, but giving the WP to most damage seems to be reasonable. In regards to the who geta the kill for statistical purposes I'd like to hear other folks opinions though. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
Jonny D Buelle Mors Effera 410	Posted - 2015.01.15 11:19:00 - [4] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: Jonny D Buelle wrote: Kain Spero wrote: Change the kill and assist logic to give the kill and kill WP to the player that causes the most damage to a target. This would apply to infantry, vehicles, and turrets. Player that lands a kill shot gets an assist and a new "final blow" wp reward. I can see a lot of people being upset at this while also a lot being for this. My argument for this is how will it show up on the killboard as it only shows us K/D WP? Also what if it was a situation that if someone didn't finish my opponent I would of died, who deserves the kill then? Also what if I did die, would I still get the kill? If so how would that be fair? Maybe you tie it just to the WP reward and not the stat itself? I'm on the fence about who gets the kill stat on the leaderboard, but giving the WP to most damage seems to be reasonable. In regards to the who geta the kill for statistical purposes I'd like to hear other folks opinions though. WP rewards for slayers are f**ed in my opinion, seeing as logis gain more WPs faster than even the best slayer can kill. So I would love to see the WP rewards for a final blow. My concerns with the stats come from knowing that some of the bigger corps require a certain K/D ratio from their slayers (some even from their logis). So those questions are really for the benefit of those who focus on their K/D ratio. Drink until you can't drink no more. Then grab another bottle and drink some more!* - Demetrious 'Jonny' Buelle.
Lightning35 Delta514 48TH SPECIAL OPERATIONS FORCE 146	Posted - 2015.01.15 11:47:00 - [5] - Quote No. This is a team game, not a solo player. Yes it's sometimes annoying, but deal with it. 48th Special Operations Force. "As a team or alone, I dominate the battlefield."
Jonny D Buelle Mors Effera 410	Posted - 2015.01.15 11:52:00 - [6] - Quote Lightning35 Delta514 wrote: No. This is a team game, not a solo player. Yes it's sometimes annoying, but deal with it. How does this relate to solo play vs team play? If anything, this might encourage more team play because it gives slayers more opportunities to gain WP, thus helping the squad and team. Drink until you can't drink no more. Then grab another bottle and drink some more! - Demetrious 'Jonny' Buelle.
Godin Thekiller The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 2695	Posted - 2015.01.15 11:52:00 - [7] - Quote Lightning35 Delta514 wrote: No. This is a team game, not a solo player. Yes it's sometimes annoying, but deal with it. This folks, is not how you argue. To Lightning: I've thought of 17 situations why this does in fact make sense, many of them having to do with ISK. You want to **** people of ISK? click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Kain Spero Internal Error. 4213	Posted - 2015.01.15 12:00:00 - [8] - Quote Lightning35 Delta514 wrote: No. This is a team game, not a solo player. Yes it's sometimes annoying, but deal with it. Not really a matter of dealing with it. I think you are missing the point behind adding a "Final Blow" reward. I'll use an example: Three squad mates engage a target. We'll call them Joe, Bob, and Frank. Bob does 60% of the damage while Frank does 10% and Joe does 20%. Joe lands the kill shot and points are rewarded like so: Bob: +50 WP "Kill" Frank: +25 WP Kill Assist Joe: +25 WP Kill Assist, +25 WP "Final Blow" (+10 WP if it's a Headshot) Godin Thekiller wrote: To Lightning: I've thought of 17 situations why this does in fact make sense, many of them having to do with ISK. You want to **** people of ISK? This is actually another important issue if "keep what you kill" is implemented. With money on the line doesn't it make sense that the person who did the most damage gets the ISK? Or does it make more sense that the increased ISK payout goes to the person that landed the final shot? Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
Roman837 Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance 755	Posted - 2015.01.15 12:20:00 - [9] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: Lightning35 Delta514 wrote: No. This is a team game, not a solo player. Yes it's sometimes annoying, but deal with it. Not really a matter of dealing with it. I think you are missing the point behind adding a "Final Blow" reward. I'll use an example: Three squad mates engage a target. We'll call them Joe, Bob, and Frank. Bob does 60% of the damage while Frank does 10% and Joe does 20%. Joe lands the kill shot and points are rewarded like so: Bob: +50 WP "Kill" Frank: +25 WP Kill Assist Joe: +25 WP Kill Assist, +25 WP "Final Blow" (+10 WP if it's a Headshot) Godin Thekiller wrote: To Lightning: I've thought of 17 situations why this does in fact make sense, many of them having to do with ISK. You want to **** people of ISK? This is actually another important issue if "keep what you kill" is implemented. With money on the line doesn't it make sense that the person who did the most damage gets the ISK? Or does it make more sense that the increased ISK payout goes to the person that landed the final shot? Interesting idea Kane..but...The kill should go to the person who got the kill. It sucks when somone "steals" your kill...but...that's part of this game it's not a 1v1 game. It would be nice tho to get a most damage done reward assist or even a bonus if you get a solo kill.. The major issue you will run into is the time or the kill. Did somone just fight the guy....and the opponent died....then you come a long and finish him. Does the other dead guy get the kill? If so why he died. As much as people think they may have killed the person without somone swooping in and kill stealing. You never will know. Plus. The kill mail and kill feed always tell you what you died from...what would it say? Maple Syrup Drinking Canadian, EVE Character Cesar Sousa, CEO of Murphys-Law
Vulpes Dolosus Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2813	Posted - 2015.01.15 12:24:00 - [10] - Quote If you almost kill someone and he gets away, you get nothing. If you almost kill some one and he gets away then someone else kills him you get a assist because you couldn't finish the job. It's the actual kill that matters. Also: what you you do about regen and repairing? Is the damage cumulative or negated by repair? Wouldn't it be difficult (tech wise) to keep track of those numbers? Dust is there! I was real! Dear diary, Rattati senpai noticed me today~

Kain Spero Internal Error. 4213	Posted - 2015.01.15 12:28:00 - [11] - Quote Roman837 wrote: Interesting idea Kane..but...The kill should go to the person who got the kill. It sucks when somone "steals" your kill...but...that's part of this game it's not a 1v1 game. It would be nice tho to get a most damage done reward assist or even a bonus if you get a solo kill.. The major issue you will run into is the time or the kill. Did somone just fight the guy....and the opponent died....then you come a long and finish him. Does the other dead guy get the kill? If so why he died. As much as people think they may have killed the person without somone swooping in and kill stealing. You never will know. Plus. The kill mail and kill feed always tell you what you died from...what would it say? Maybe that is the way to go about this. Again, I'm not super torn up about how the stat itself counts, so I'm fine with who gets the kill stat as is. Kill feed would also be unaffected as well by this change in the way I imagine it. In terms of the time of the kill and damage you would just have it follow the current logic in the game around a kill assist. I really think the area where this would be the most applicable is the destruction of installations and vehicles, and as Godin pointed out in any kind of ISK system that rewards for what has been killed or destroyed on the battlefield. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
Roman837 Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance 756	Posted - 2015.01.15 12:46:00 - [12] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: Roman837 wrote: Interesting idea Kane..but...The kill should go to the person who got the kill. It sucks when somone "steals" your kill...but...that's part of this game it's not a 1v1 game. It would be nice tho to get a most damage done reward assist or even a bonus if you get a solo kill.. The major issue you will run into is the time or the kill. Did somone just fight the guy....and the opponent died....then you come a long and finish him. Does the other dead guy get the kill? If so why he died. As much as people think they may have killed the person without somone swooping in and kill stealing. You never will know. Plus. The kill mail and kill feed always tell you what you died from...what would it say? Maybe that is the way to go about this. Again, I'm not super torn up about how the stat itself counts, so I'm fine with who gets the kill stat as is. Kill feed would also be unaffected as well by this change in the way I imagine it. I see this mainly as a change in WP rewards and potential tracking for ISK rewards if CCP goes that route with keep what you kill. In terms of the time of the kill and damage you would just have it follow the current logic in the game around a kill assist, so no need for any extra bells or whistles in that regard. I really think the area where this would be the most applicable is the destruction of installations and vehicles, and, as Godin pointed out, in any kind of ISK system that rewards for what has been killed or destroyed on the battlefield. Aha! Bonus. You mentioned turret destructions lol. Speaking of which saw you in a dom the other day popping turrets with your tank lol. I put a 1 mill per kill bounty on ya with my squad....so that may explain why people were chasing you all match haha Maple Syrup Drinking Canadian, EVE Character Cesar Sousa, CEO of Murphys-Law
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 710	Posted - 2015.01.15 12:47:00 - [13] - Quote Its not a bad idea, just a nonsensical one. Its seems fitting for anybody who see a heavily weakened enemy get taken down by somebody else, concerning the amount damage weapons do per second in dust, its a rarity really. 2 people (player A and player B) engage a target, A does 51% damage and dies, B does 49% damage and eliminates target, and is then taken down. Player A gets a 1/1 KD but did not kill anyone, player B gets a 0/1 KD ratio. You can add this up ad neausem, 3 players attack a target then the one player who did 35% damage gets a kill, as in not even doing half the damage to an enemy. Or Redline Sniper A lands a body shot on a target, wounding him, Heroic Noob Grunt B actually in the fight sees a red heavy with 49% armor takes hims on doing a little jiggle, a little stick and move and wins the fight, but sniper A gets the kill, without actually killing anything. this actually equates to more kill stealing. I don't even have to waste ammo to bump the KD, just a plug a guy a couple times leave him and eventually, no matter what happens i get a kill and the others dont. A tip to avoid kill steals is not to run a in a massive blob where 6 or 7 blues and greens are all firing at the same targets. Be creative and flank. or simply put, "git gud". Damage mods exist for a reason. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
Kuruld Sengar RED 0MEN. 153	Posted - 2015.01.15 12:55:00 - [14] - Quote Mare assist points multiply the percentage of damage you did to the target by 50 so that the kill gets 50 and the assist can get up to 49 wp with enough damage dealt. Or as little as 1. Would be script intensive...
Kain Spero Internal Error. 4213	Posted - 2015.01.15 13:13:00 - [15] - Quote Kuruld Sengar wrote: Mare assist points multiply the percentage of damage you did to the target by 50 so that the kill gets 50 and the assist can get up to 49 wp with enough damage dealt. Or as little as 1. Would be script intensive... Battlefield 3 did assist points this way and is somewhat where the idea came from although I was looking at simplifying it somewhat. Someone mentioned in a squad that I was in that Battlefield 4 awards kills based on damage though. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 2386	Posted - 2015.01.15 13:14:00 - [16] - Quote Do we know if it is possible to divide the WP by the % of damage you inflicted on the "killed" target? If it is, why not ask for it to be divided like that? I know that you know what I am talking about, you were around the first time I remember bringing it up. I am not saying your idea is bad, just that I think the following (as I have detailed it before) is more elegant. 50 WP for a kill; do away with Assists Award % of Kill WP (and the kill) to every involved party dependant on % of damage they inflicted +5 WP for Final Blow +5 WP for Top Damage Amarr/Minmatar vehicles are OP (especially Minmatar speed tanks) ^The reason why CCP is afraid to release them
GLOBAL fils'de RAGE Consolidated Dust 136	Posted - 2015.01.15 20:37:00 - [17] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: Change the kill and assist logic to give the kill and kill WP to the player that causes the most damage to a target. This would apply to infantry, vehicles, and turrets. Player that lands a kill shot gets an assist and a new "final blow" wp reward. HA HA how would CCP ever figure this out...lol they have a high latency cesspool that they call a "competetive FPS". it's a crap shoot and nothing more-actually "craps" is a good game even if it's gambling.
Godin Thekiller The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 2696	Posted - 2015.01.15 20:52:00 - [18] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: Lightning35 Delta514 wrote: No. This is a team game, not a solo player. Yes it's sometimes annoying, but deal with it. Not really a matter of dealing with it. I think you are missing the point behind adding a "Final Blow" reward. I'll use an example: Three squad mates engage a target. We'll call them Joe, Bob, and Frank. Bob does 60% of the damage while Frank does 10% and Joe does 20%. Joe lands the kill shot and points are rewarded like so: Bob: +50 WP "Kill" Frank: +25 WP Kill Assist Joe: +25 WP Kill Assist, +25 WP "Final Blow" (+10 WP if it's a Headshot) Godin Thekiller wrote: To Lightning: I've thought of 17 situations why this does in fact make sense, many of them having to do with ISK. You want to **** people of ISK? This is actually another important issue if "keep what you kill" is implemented. With money on the line doesn't it make sense that the person who did the most damage gets the ISK? Or does it make more sense that the increased ISK payout goes to the person that landed the final shot? Most work= most pay. click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Godin Thekiller The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 2696	Posted - 2015.01.15 20:54:00 - [19] - Quote Roman837 wrote: Kain Spero wrote: Roman837 wrote: Interesting idea Kane..but...The kill should go to the person who got the kill. It sucks when somone "steals" your kill...but...that's part of this game it's not a 1v1 game. It would be nice tho to get a most damage done reward assist or even a bonus if you get a solo kill.. The major issue you will run into is the time or the kill. Did somone just fight the guy....and the opponent died....then you come a long and finish him. Does the other dead guy get the kill? If so why he died. As much as people think they may have killed the person without somone swooping in and kill stealing. You never will know. Plus. The kill mail and kill feed always tell you what you died from...what would it say? Maybe that is the way to go about this. Again, I'm not super torn up about how the stat itself counts, so I'm fine with who gets the kill stat as is. Kill feed would also be unaffected as well by this change in the way I imagine it. I see this mainly as a change in WP rewards and potential tracking for ISK rewards if CCP goes that route with keep what you kill. In terms of the time of the kill and damage you would just have it follow the current logic in the game around a kill assist, so no need for any extra bells or whistles in that regard. I really think the area where this would be the most applicable is the destruction of installations and vehicles, and, as Godin pointed out, in any kind of ISK system that rewards for what has been killed or destroyed on the battlefield. Aha! Bonus. You mentioned turret destructions lol. Speaking of which saw you in a dom the other day popping turrets with your tank lol. I put a 1 mill per kill bounty on ya with my squad....so that may explain why people were chasing you all match haha Turrets are annoying, they must all die. click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Hector Carson G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 142	Posted - 2015.01.15 21:02:00 - [20] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: Change the kill and assist logic to give the kill and kill WP to the player that causes the most damage to a target. This would apply to infantry, vehicles, and turrets. Player that lands a kill shot gets an assist and a new "final blow" wp reward. Agreed +1 Assault c.k0 Proto Tankers

Kain Spero Internal Error. 4223	Posted - 2015.01.15 22:20:00 - [21] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: Most work= most pay. That was kind of my thought on the issue in terms of where the ISK goes in a "keep what you kill" system. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
IMPAIRS YOUR ABILITY Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic 344	Posted - 2015.01.15 23:48:00 - [22] - Quote Is "stealing a kill" a real thing in a team based game? Serious question the idea seems counter intuitive to winning/playing. No I in team it would make sense in a smaller game like the 3v3 in destiny or in a total deathmatch mode where it's everyone vs everyone but it sounds like sour grapes or delicious tears in a team based game. *RED LIGHT*
Imp Smash Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 516	Posted - 2015.01.15 23:54:00 - [23] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: Change the kill and assist logic to give the kill and kill WP to the player that causes the most damage to a target. This would apply to infantry, vehicles, and turrets. Player that lands a kill shot gets an assist and a new "final blow" wp reward. Personally I think the system they use in BF4 works very very well.
Kain Spero Internal Error. 4224	Posted - 2015.01.16 00:01:00 - [24] - Quote Imp Smash wrote: Kain Spero wrote: Change the kill and assist logic to give the kill and kill WP to the player that causes the most damage to a target. This would apply to infantry, vehicles, and turrets. Player that lands a kill shot gets an assist and a new "final blow" wp reward. Personally I think the system they use in BF4 works very very well. I was reading up on this: http://bf4central.com/battlefield-4-point-system/ Does this mean that two people can get a kill? Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
Godin Thekiller The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 2698	Posted - 2015.01.16 00:05:00 - [25] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: Imp Smash wrote: Kain Spero wrote: Change the kill and assist logic to give the kill and kill WP to the player that causes the most damage to a target. This would apply to infantry, vehicles, and turrets. Player that lands a kill shot gets an assist and a new "final blow" wp reward. Personally I think the system they use in BF4 works very very well. I was reading up on this: http://bf4central.com/battlefield-4-point-system/ Does this mean that two people can get a kill? No, but yes. The person who does the most damage gets counted as getting the kill, but the person who actually gets counted as well. Difference is that the person w/o the kill only gets as much points as he shot out. click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
CELESTA AUNGM Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 394	Posted - 2015.01.16 00:23:00 - [26] - Quote Let me say, for a thread-subject I would normally turn my back on, the posts here (even the ones I disagree with) are well worded, and are darned intelligent points of view. Kudos to EVERY single person who posted here! I learned from a documentary that, in WWII Battle of Britain, pilots would be debriefed after each combat engagement once they returned to the home airfield. Now these are "pilots", so you can't imagine how egotistic and eager their competitive spirits are--and in a aerial fight among 15 planes, you can only imagine how wild/frantic/non-linear events must be. So Alfie would correctly report that he put a bucket of rounds into the yellow-nose plane---and Ronald correctly reported he shot the tail surface off that same plane--and Archibald put a quick burst of bullets into the engine of that same plane and saw the engine explode. All three pilots saw that yellow-nose enemy eventually spiral and crash. Of course each pilot expects to get a enemy sticker painted on the side of his cockpit--each pilot GOT the kill, and it's hard to say the last pilot to shoot could have succeeded without the contribution of "the other two pilots". GÇªBut Fighter Command's solution was to give each pilot a "third" of a Kill. WHA?!! Fighter Command's interest was not with WHO shoot down, just that the enemy fighter got shot down so he can't stop our side from winning the air war. Yes, it was useful to say "Alfie is our top ace with 60 Kills to his credit", because it helped keep the country inspired and helps recruitmentGÇª but the War is won by neutralizing as many of the enemy from opposing our side, not by counting up WHO from our side neutralized the most enemies. At first I thought, woah! 1/3-Kill? That's nonsense--just give one pilot the credit, and the other two should be pro enough to suck it up. GÇªThen I thought, where was my brain? Of course Fighter Command's point of view makes sense. Not trying to be super-precise about which pilot gets the "official" kill each time was their way of forcing the best peace among cocky pilots. I wouldn't want the current Kill-credit mechanic to be changed at all. We come from Playstation gaming, arguably some of the most blazing-frantic and least-teamlike 'team-shooter' titles of any format. When you put a gun in our hands, no player is going to feel more impulsively competitive and than a PS player on her console! Rock ON! But the devs of Dust are repeatedly showing us that, even though the game HAS a "leader board" and gives honor to top-tier gunmen, a Dust War is won by neutralizing the enemy team from opposing our hack-ownership of the map, not by WHO neutralized the most enemies. Paul sees Celesta wearing a pro to-suit-n-proto-hmg, and Paul knows that no ones got a chance of killing Celesta unless Paul steps out and sacrifices himself to hose her with rounds and weaken her HP. Alan sees Paul commit point-blank suicide against Celesta, and unloads his militia-rail on her from a safe position. Rockson had a proto-rifle, and empties his gun on Celesta from behind, but his clip ran out of bullets just before Alan's militia ammo, so Alan gets the 50+Kill, and Rockson and Paul get 25+assists. Should Paul feel happy that, at least this is a game that notifies him on-screen that his intentional sacrifice paid of and rewards him for his contribution? Should Rockson get the 50+Kill credit since they probably reduced the most of Celesta's EHP (Alan's gun is too weak to take on Celesta alone). If Alan had fired on Celesta 2 seconds AFTER Paul made his sacrifice, should Paul NOT get any 25+ credit at all? (Would Alan and Rockson even succeeded if it weren't for Paul's gutsy warrior-act?) These are really tough questions to answer. I think I'm grateful that CCP didn't try to address the issue, and instead just implemented a mechanic that forces an"official" peace among incredibly competitive players. Universe of good wishes for the 49, especially CCP Eterne... No story can have life without writers and publishers.
Kain Spero Internal Error. 4228	Posted - 2015.01.16 00:53:00 - [27] - Quote Godin is doing some live fire exploration of how the Battlefield 4 assist system works right now. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
Imp Smash Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 516	Posted - 2015.01.16 01:07:00 - [28] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: Imp Smash wrote: Kain Spero wrote: Change the kill and assist logic to give the kill and kill WP to the player that causes the most damage to a target. This would apply to infantry, vehicles, and turrets. Player that lands a kill shot gets an assist and a new "final blow" wp reward. Personally I think the system they use in BF4 works very very well. I was reading up on this: http://bf4central.com/battlefield-4-point-system/ Does this mean that two people can get a kill? Simply put, yes. However, it is the assist system that I believe Dust could benefit from. Assist points being equal to how much damage dealt percentwise. Assume I am fighting with a guy. I do 45% of his EHP in damage. My squadmate does 55% of it. He gets the kill. He gets a full kill worth of WP (Dust case: 50) and I get 45% of 50 (slightly less than now.) Same scenario. I do 95% of the damage. My squadmate is a KSing ***** just landing one shot at the very end. In current Dust he would get 50, and I would get 25 plus a huge case of the grumblies. With the BF assist system, I would get 95% of 50 so, much MUCH less grumbly as I would earn almost a full 50 wp from it. In BF4 yes two people can get the kill in the above mentioned scenario. I can take it or leave it personally. This game's SP and ISK accrual is heavily weighted towards WP gain, so having WP gain as closely tied to contribution as possible can only be a positive imo. That would be enough for me. When I play BF4, I am encouraged and rewarded for playing a firesupport role. I will often times suppress a group of reds while my squadmates move up and flank them. I often times get no kills. However, I also often times see: Kill Assist (30) Kill Assist (70) Kill Assist (65) Kill Assist (65) I didn't kill a single guy, but I got the score of killing more than 2 simply because I damaged and suppressed them for my team while they moved up. That's not even including the Suppression assists. All in all it works well and makes having your kill stolen MUCH less annoying.
cris bleu Carbon 7 Iron Oxide. 62	Posted - 2015.01.16 01:28:00 - [29] - Quote I dunno. I think this may be a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. If 3 mercs are going round in a group pumping plasma into the other side, say one has great gun game and typically does 60% damage to each opponent they encounter, each of the other two does 20%. Well, on average, the killing blow is going to be landed 60% by the first guy, 20% by each of the other two. In other words, they're going to end up getting kills in proportion to damage dealt anyway. Also, I agree with posters that suggest the concept of "stealing kills" doesn't feel fight in a mature team game.
Kain Spero Internal Error. 4229	Posted - 2015.01.16 02:21:00 - [30] - Quote cris bleu wrote: I dunno. I think this may be a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. If 3 mercs are going round in a group pumping plasma into the other side, say one has great gun game and typically does 60% damage to each opponent they encounter, each of the other two does 20%. Well, on average, the killing blow is going to be landed 60% by the first guy, 20% by each of the other two. In other words, they're going to end up getting kills in proportion to damage dealt anyway. Also, I agree with posters that suggest the concept of "stealing kills" doesn't feel fight in a mature team game. From looking at how some other games handle this is seems like the solution is that if you do over X% of damage you get a kill as well as the person who fires the kill shot. This would work for tanks and turrets as well. If it's a situation where you wouldn't currently get an assist then you can cross the threshold to get a kill. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news

501st Headstrong 0uter.Heaven 800	Posted - 2015.01.16 11:53:00 - [31] - Quote Why can't you just get Proficiency 5 and headshot people? If others steal your kills, shouldn't you be trying to kill them faster? "There are no rights. The world owes no one a living."-Sumner Official 0uter.Heaven Mascot XD Moody come back SWBF3!!
Booby Tuesdays Ahrendee Mercenaries 1208	Posted - 2015.01.16 14:58:00 - [32] - Quote What happens when Harry chases Steve down, but Steve "fell and died". How many WP would be awarded under this system? Similar scenario, what happens when you have an explosive user near death, and they "committed suicide"? Half-Assed Forum Warrior / Half-Decent Commando / Damn Good Logi / Matari Loyalty 7
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 2388	Posted - 2015.01.16 16:05:00 - [33] - Quote Booby Tuesdays wrote: What happens when Harry chases Steve down, but Steve "fell and died". How many WP would be awarded under this system? Similar scenario, what happens when you have an explosive user near death, and they "committed suicide"? A) you get points for the amount of damage you inflicted B) you get points for the amount of damage you inflicted Amarr/Minmatar vehicles are OP (especially Minmatar speed tanks) ^The reason why CCP is afraid to release them
lee corwood Knights Of Ender RISE of LEGION 1139	Posted - 2015.01.16 17:28:00 - [34] - Quote I will say I'm torn from the two different outlooks. Perspective from my own team: I often have moments where I'm caught without cover/stuck on terrain/just SOL but I stand my ground and unload as many bullets as I can into the guy. Usually in the case of a heavy, because my teammate is near by and killing him is what gets us the objective and thus the win. I never feel mad in those situations because it never feels like a 'steal' to me. This is probably just my mentality, as I am not a slayer, but when a BB scores a kill on someone I'm engaging, I'm never offended. I'm not a KD ***** and this is a team game. Perspective of the other team engaging me: However, on the reverse side of that, I have felt bad for some redberries. I have been in situations where I know Red A did 96% of the damage and then a Red B sniper snuck in the last shot. The first thing to leave my mouth is usually 'oh, you stole that kill'. In the end, I think I'm for the kill stat still going for the one who landed the bullet. But the wp being proportional to the amount of damage inflicted by the person. I could care less about K/D. But WP directly affects your SP which I think is more important to the maturation of your character progress than a pissing contest on a board. ISK is something I honestly don't know enough about as far as how kills/wp affect your payout, so I can't comment there. Knights of Ender Director Logi 4 Life \| Youtube Vids
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides Learning Alliance 5879	Posted - 2015.01.16 20:05:00 - [35] - Quote 50 WP to Top Damage 50 WP to Final Blow (if not top damage, they would not be cumulative.) 25 WP to all other assists. Final Blow gets the kill stat. 0r... 1 WP for every 2% damage signed when the kill is registered. 10 WP for Killing Blow. Final Blow gets the kill stat. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Kain Spero Negative-Feedback 4251	Posted - 2015.01.16 22:37:00 - [36] - Quote What do folks think about up to 2 people getting a kill count on their stats? The final blow and if someone does more than X% of damage (like over 50 or 75%) or the person that does the most damage? Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
Kain Spero Negative-Feedback 4252	Posted - 2015.01.16 22:40:00 - [37] - Quote Booby Tuesdays wrote: What happens when Harry chases Steve down, but Steve "fell and died". How many WP would be awarded under this system? Similar scenario, what happens when you have an explosive user near death, and they "committed suicide"? Not only would Harry still get WP equal to the damage he did but also a kill on his stats. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides Learning Alliance 5884	Posted - 2015.01.17 00:07:00 - [38] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: What do folks think about up to 2 people getting a kill count on their stats? The final blow and if someone does more than X% of damage (like over 50 or 75%) or the person that does the most damage? I am ok with it. Most damage + over 50%, to get a kill credit without being the one to get the killing blow. If no one does over 50% then it is a group effort and only the one with the killing blow should gets the kill credit. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 2389	Posted - 2015.01.17 00:18:00 - [39] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: Kain Spero wrote: What do folks think about up to 2 people getting a kill count on their stats? The final blow and if someone does more than X% of damage (like over 50 or 75%) or the person that does the most damage? I am ok with it. Most damage + over 50%, to get a kill credit without being the one to get the killing blow. If no one does over 50% then it is a group effort and only the one with the killing blow should gets the kill credit. I still say that we should just do away with Assists and award kills to all involved parties and divide WP by % among all involved parties. It is the way to truly encourage teamwork. Amarr/Minmatar vehicles are OP (especially Minmatar speed tanks) ^The reason why CCP is afraid to release them
Imp Smash Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 523	Posted - 2015.01.17 00:27:00 - [40] - Quote cris bleu wrote: I dunno. I think this may be a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. If 3 mercs are going round in a group pumping plasma into the other side, say one has great gun game and typically does 60% damage to each opponent they encounter, each of the other two does 20%. Well, on average, the killing blow is going to be landed 60% by the first guy, 20% by each of the other two. In other words, they're going to end up getting kills in proportion to damage dealt anyway. Also, I agree with posters that suggest the concept of "stealing kills" doesn't feel fight in a mature team game. It's not really a problem. More of a 'quality of life' enhancement for the game. Currently WP gain is weighted heavily towards equipment use. Killers get significantly less WP for killing than support equipment. Support roles (such as suppression, shield stripping, artillery) get even less. Which hurts SP/ISK gain. Hence we see LOTs of equipment whoring (they had to introduce Bandwidth because of this). This would provide a small closing of the WP gap for killers and a large closing of the gap for the non-equipment support folks. If it makes other roles rewarding (and still less rewarding than the equipment support role--don't worry logis) really why not do it? The BF4 point system is really quite superb. Check it out if you haven't done so.

JUDASisMYhomeboy xCosmic Voidx 272	Posted - 2015.01.17 01:05:00 - [41] - Quote It happens. Get over it "In a world gone mad,only a lunatic is truly insane" Homer J Simpson
Kain Spero Negative-Feedback 4254	Posted - 2015.01.17 02:00:00 - [42] - Quote JUDASisMYhomeboy wrote: It happens. Get over it Next time actually go through and read the thread. This isn't about getting over anything but improving the game play for everyone. This issue also becomes a lot more important if CCP does move to a keep what you kill system. Imp Smash, the more I read up on BF4's system the more I like it. I just wonder if UE3 can handle point tracking like this. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
Imp Smash Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 525	Posted - 2015.01.17 03:22:00 - [43] - Quote No idea. Dice built an entire system for BF. 'Frostbite' is actually damn good. If Legion, maybe not UR engine but original 'Carbon' Engine that CCP made-- and then maybe? OR PS4 port....hmmmm Carbon Dust 514 on PS4....so sexy...hmmm....take my moneyz......
Twelve Guage Death Firm. 438	Posted - 2015.01.17 16:29:00 - [44] - Quote While I like this ideal I can't help but think that this is going to have a bad effect on area of denial weapons mainly the mass driver. I mean yeah it would be nice to get recognition for all the damage I do on the field but people will find some odd way abuse this. Sandwich maker LVL. 5 You've been like by Twelve Gauge = her grabbing your @$$. My like button is back. C:<
Nirwanda Vaughns 1228	Posted - 2015.01.17 20:25:00 - [45] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: Change the kill and assist logic to give the kill and kill WP to the player that causes the most damage to a target. This would apply to infantry, vehicles, and turrets. Player that lands a kill shot gets an assist and a new "final blow" wp reward. EDIT: From some systems that others have pointed out rather than add final blow etc. change the assist system to be based of % damage. If you do over 75% you get a kill as well (or vehicle destruction in the case of a vehicle/turret). pretty sure at somepoint it was fixed liek that. it seems in the past few updates the calculation seems to have been lost in th eupdates Never argue with an idiot. they bring you down to their level and beat you through experience proud C-II bpo owner
ROMULUS H3X research lab 284	Posted - 2015.01.17 21:25:00 - [46] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: Change the kill and assist logic to give the kill and kill WP to the player that causes the most damage to a target. This would apply to infantry, vehicles, and turrets. Player that lands a kill shot gets an assist and a new "final blow" wp reward. EDIT: From some systems that others have pointed out rather than add final blow etc. change the assist system to be based of % damage. If you do over 75% you get a kill as well (or vehicle destruction in the case of a vehicle/turret). No such thing as kill stealing in a team based game. FORGE/FLAYLOCK/FISTS PLASMA/PISTOL/PUNCH ALL OF YOU PUNKS GET HUMILIATED AFTER LUNCH!
Devadander Woodgrain Atari 182	Posted - 2015.01.17 22:31:00 - [47] - Quote if I see a red with 10% life as I come around a turn I'll shoot it every time. If I'm shooting a red and someone kills it I'll look for a new red every time. This feels like a way for multi-squad teams to just milk more WP and I don't like it. "Lets group up and push an objective" ~ No blueberry ever 07-28-12 ~Deal with it~
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides Learning Alliance 5897	Posted - 2015.01.17 22:32:00 - [48] - Quote I would be happy just to see Assists listed in the end of match leader boards so people can see your contribution when you are not lucky on getting the final blow. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Imp Smash Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 527	Posted - 2015.01.17 23:36:00 - [49] - Quote Again -- the only reason (I am guessing here) that Kain mentioned this, or that I've commented on it so much, is simply due to the direct influence on SP/ISK gain that WP has. All of you who said that it doesn't matter who gets the kill as teamwork is more important are 100% right. I don't think this is about score padding. Death in this game costs money. We are dealing with an economic equation. WP are required to earn money to continue playing or SP to advance your character. Some roles really get very little in the way of WP -- other roles get barrels of WP. So the former have a harder time keeping up with expense. Where another roles can keep up far more easily and bank money. Sometimes for significantly less risk (let me stress this -- sometimes.) Adding the above would help close the gap with the low WP gaining roles towards the high WP gaining roles. I don't see how parity is a bad thing. Of course codeability is a whole separate issue. It simpl
deezy dabest IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP 1788	Posted - 2015.01.17 23:47:00 - [50] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: Change the kill and assist logic to give the kill and kill WP to the player that causes the most damage to a target. This would apply to infantry, vehicles, and turrets. Player that lands a kill shot gets an assist and a new "final blow" wp reward. EDIT: From some systems that others have pointed out rather than add final blow etc. change the assist system to be based of % damage. If you do over 75% you get a kill as well (or vehicle destruction in the case of a vehicle/turret). This is a terrible idea. This would throw the impromptu team work out the window. How many times has a blue berry attempting to steal your kill saved your life? How many times has a blue berry stealing your kill been the entire reason you were able to take down that heavy in the first place?

Kain Spero Negative-Feedback 4261	Posted - 2015.01.18 00:23:00 - [51] - Quote deezy dabest wrote: Kain Spero wrote: Change the kill and assist logic to give the kill and kill WP to the player that causes the most damage to a target. This would apply to infantry, vehicles, and turrets. Player that lands a kill shot gets an assist and a new "final blow" wp reward. EDIT: From some systems that others have pointed out rather than add final blow etc. change the assist system to be based of % damage. If you do over 75% you get a kill as well (or vehicle destruction in the case of a vehicle/turret). This is a terrible idea. This would throw the impromptu team work out the window. How many times has a blue berry attempting to steal your kill saved your life? How many times has a blue berry stealing your kill been the entire reason you were able to take down that heavy in the first place? Heh, for the people that play with me you'll know that my main concern is that the target is down. The kill stealing term was used to be intentionally inflammatory to start a discussion, so please read the actual mechanics and explain how encouraging teamwork and rewarding players by the work put into a target and rewarding the player that has the initiative to complete the engagement (final blow) is a bad thing. Imp Smash hit it on the head though as these mechanics become more important in a "keep what you kill" environment. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news


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