Why would allowing non-logis to better perform the support role, encourage people to spec into the support role more than they currently are?

If you want people to play Logistics, then buff Logistics. Plain and simple.

Surely an additional 4 or 5 bw per dropsuit does not constitue a supplanting of the support role. But it is enough to let everyone contribute to the support effort without having to change roles completely.

Surely an additional 4 or 5 bw per dropsuit does not constitue a supplanting of the support role. But it is enough to let everyone contribute to the support effort without having to change roles completely.

Ok lets break this down.


Bandwidth makes Logistics more essential.

You're complaining there are not enough logistics on the field

Because they're so essential, you feel you need to help more in the support role to make up for lack of Logistics.

So if there were more Logistics, this would fix the issue, as you would no longer feel the need to assist in the Support role.


That makes a lot of sense.

What doesn't make sense is your solution.


You want to make Logistics *less* important, so they're less essential, so the lack of Logistics is less detrimental to the gameplay.

This will *not* encourage people to play Logistics at all, in fact it will discourage them more than they already are, because now the need for logistics is lessened.

This is bad.

So if you true goal is to have more Logistics on the field, then buff to suit so that people are more encouraged to actually play it. That is how you fix the problem.

What you should *really* be advocating for, if you want flexibility, is a proper overhaul of the Frame suits so that they can perform the middleground you seem to want so you can play both roles (to a weaker extent) at the same time.

My goal is not to have more logistics on the field. It is to make the game fun and stop using governance and policy to enforce public behavior. If nobody wants to be a logi, then it is self evident in the meta. Open your eyes to what is happening.

I understand that you have an ideal, but you are trying to force feed it to the community, when the players' behavior clearly shows how they feel and how they want to play.

Have you stopped to consider why the Logi player count is low? And I'm not talking about the derpy WP farmers, I'm talking about *real* Logistics. Why do you think there are so few of them?

Because people don't want to logi for various reasons. If it were family feud, then I'd guess the #1 answer is .... boredom.

It is a first person shooter, not a first person healer.

That may the reason for you, but I can assure you that is not the reason for most people. The main reason people are discouraged from playing Logistics is that not only is by far the most expensive class (Both in ISK and SP) but it is also the weakest combat frame in the game. It has bad speed, bad stamina, bad HP, and extremely limited bonuses. High level Logi suits run upwards over 250k ISK, and die faster than anything else in the game.

I'm not saying you should balance around ISK cost, but who the hell is going to want to get in a stumpy weak and slow suit that's going to cost them an arm and a leg and die faster than another role which can still get most of the job done with a suit which is FAR more survivable. You can't play the Support Role if you're dead, no matter how good your gear is, so why would I want to run Logistics? If I die too easily, then I can't play the support role at all. So people realized it was better to just play a non-logi role because it was better to run a gimped support fit on a better class of suit and survive, rather than run a full support fit, die, and be useless.

The fact that you can't even recognize the true problem behind the lack of Logistics, and insist on simply buffing your own class, shows that what you're more interested in cramming your own playstyle down everyone's throat rather that actually fixing a serious problem in the game. So don't sit there and spew crap like "This is what the players want so we should just make the class I don't play be less important" as some lame excuse.

It's clear you have no idea what you're talking

If people wanted to play logistics, then they would have been doing it all along, regardless of the drawbacks. There is a thing called the defiant power of the human spirit. It basically drives this game. When something challenges us, we strive hard to overcome it.

We would have to poll people as to why they have not been playing logi all of this time. Neither you nor I know the real reason until we get some data to work with.

When they nerfed the flaylock, a small group of loyalists continued to tote it as their sidearm. Those are the people who wanted to use flaylocks because they were flaylocks.

The rest of the flaylock users migrated elsewhere because they wanted something more effective to get what they wanted out of the game.

People play this game for myriad reasons. Policies like bandwidth, especially enforced so strictly, assert that the design is more important than the fun of the player base.

When the mob fotm club doesn't even want to play logi, even after it has been chosen as the golden child of 1.10, then that's gotta tell ya something. Nobody wants to do it because it doesn't have the appeal of the other roles.

So then people say, buff logis. Instead of letting it be what it is, you're trying to mashup the logi role with the shooter role and say, "hey everybody it's not so bad! Get in here and try this out now." But you had to add the functionality of the other roles to the logi role. The logi role alone was not attractive nor desirable.

Well, I gathered this from one thread. Imagine how much more we could find if we sorted through the forums:



put uplinks on scouts and assaults
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2559694#post2559694

put uplink on assault
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2558369#post2558369

assault put uplink, not hives
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2558586#post2558586

carry uplinks on your assault
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2558647#post2558647

scouts run uplinks
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2558744#post2558744

if you need uplinks do it yourself
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2558397#post2558397

use uplinks, not REs
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2558549#post2558549

others can carry equipment besides logis
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2558562#post2558562

logis can't do everything. Not enough logis. Everyone must pitch in.
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2559362#post2559362

There aren't enough logis
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2559511#post2559511

not enough people playing logi
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2559928#post2559928

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0

I'm out.

And the majority of us seem to think you are wrong and need to quit sh*tting up the forums.

I don't care how many people think that I'm wrong. It is okay to have a different point of view and express my experience with the game.

If you don't like a thread, then either politely express your opposition or don't bump it by responding.

It's not that you're making a thread. It's making ten of them in rapid succession that is bloody juvenile.

People play this game for myriad reasons. Policies like bandwidth, especially enforced so strictly, assert that the design is more important than the fun of the player base.

When the mob fotm club doesn't even want to play logi, even after it has been chosen as the golden child of 1.10, then that's gotta tell ya something. Nobody wants to do it because it doesn't have the appeal of the other roles.

So are you against 'strict Policies' like "Only Commandos get 2 Light Weapons" "Only Heavies & Sentinels get Heavy Weapons" "Sentinels Can't use Equipment" "Only Scouts Can readily fit Cloaks"? Because you're clearly against "Only Logistics can readily fit uplinks". They're all 'strict policies' to prevent roles from doing certain things, so surely you must be against all of them, right?

Chosen by who? People who think Bandwidth was a Buff to Logistics are sadly confused. Bandwidth did not in any way make Logistics better at what it does in any way. All it did was make other roles less effective in faking the Logistics role, which make the Logistics more necessary, but It did not make them any better.

Granting limitations to a dropsuit defines the dropsuit. The problem is when bandwidth is so tight that other roles can not perform a minimal amount of team support in addition to the demands of their role. There will be times when no logis are around. During those times, everyone must do their part. My recommendation to slightly loosen bandwidth allows everyone to do their minor support contribution in addition to their chosen role.

Things That You can Do to Support Your Team with equipment

Repair Tool - Doesn't use Bandwidth
Active Scanner - Doesn't use Bandwidth
Nanite Injector - Doesn't use Bandwidth
Nanohives - Requires Bandwidth
Demolitions - Requires Bandwidth
Uplinks - Requires Bandwidth

So, half of the support functions that Logistics do, don't even require bandwidth, so even if you have 0 badwidth, you could still perform half of possible support options with your equipment slot. So how exactly can you "not perform a minimal amount of team support" when there are 50%+ of the available options are open to you?

What class, tier of Suit, and tier of uplink are you trying to use?

EDIT: You know it doesn't even matter. What you're basically saying is "I want an uplink and something else deployed at the same time" even though you suit has one equipment *for a reason*. If you want to make use of multiply types of equipment simultaneously *use a Logistics suit* that's why they exist! So you can do that!

What you're effectively asking for is Assaults to have two equipment slots. Further devaluing the Logistics role.

You're just repeating yourself, but your end goal is to be able to deploy uplinks and keep them active at the same time as whatever other piece of equipment you want to use. The end result is that you want two equipment at the same time, uplinks, and something else.

I am repeating myself because you are repeating yourself. See?

You are being coy, and you're being extreme. The ability to deploy one uplink in addition to a role's traditional duties does not infringe upon the logi role.

This is not the ability to deploy poppy fields of nanohives. We're talking one uplink to prevent redlining.

Well well whatever, its clear you're only interested in buffing your own class rather than fixing the underpowered support role. As you put, if you dislike the playstyle of the Assault because it can't have uplinks and nanohives deployed at the same time, then you should just migrate away from it.

I play all classes and am interested in allowing an additional margin of bandwidth devoted to team support apart from their traditional role. It is not an extreme or biased view. It is a well adjusted, global perspective.

Can you answer this for me?

Hypothetically, if every role were able to deploy 1 uplink in addition to their standard duties:

1. Would it cause uplink spam?

2. Would logis be out of a job?