I agree with Xel, I don't see the point in adding bandwidth just to effectively reverse it with a skill.

If it was a specific bonus for a particular suit....maybe? But certainly not for everyone, it would completely defeat the purpose.

It'd be silly to undo the whole point of bandwidth by giving everyone more bandwidth all the time.

If you want to deploy more equipment, use a suit that is designed to deploy more equipment. The system is working exactly as intended.

doesn't limit my potential as a logistics. i actually use up more equipment now than i used to. i have been using up more proto gear than i ever did before because in the past even my standard gear wasn't being used up.

whats 50% bandwidth added to a logi with 36BW. sure suits could be adjusted but adjusting the suits bw allowance would mean that all including the lowest suits would have to be adjusted meaning those on the lower suits would have so little bw that it would be unable to deploy equipment until they train the skill.

You're right, you have limited support abilities, but giving you more just devalues the Logi's importance.

Then you wouldn't need a logi for uplinks Working as intended

Citations, please.


edit: include the contextual text also please, to better verify the quote as genuine and not just some Logi telling an Aassault to get his own damn link because the Logi is tired of hearing the crying.

we don't need any help. i drop uplinks for the whole team when i'm there. if there is no logistics like me on your team its not a problem with logistics. its a problem with not having someone filling the role. the simple answer to this is fill the role to maximum effect by using a logistics or fill it in a basic capacity using your current setup. what is not the answer is allowing players to fill the role with every suit. dropping the odd piece of equipment is not role breaking.

so when are you going to quit sh*tting up the forums with new "I hate bandwidth" threads every couple hours?

you don't have to be a logi to drop uplinks. you do not have to drop 9 uplinks to be able to support the team. all it takes is 1 uplink. that is all you need to drop to be effective at bringing teammates in.

Why would allowing non-logis to better perform the support role, encourage people to spec into the support role more than they currently are?

If you want people to play Logistics, then buff Logistics. Plain and simple.

Ok lets break this down.


Bandwidth makes Logistics more essential.

You're complaining there are not enough logistics on the field

Because they're so essential, you feel you need to help more in the support role to make up for lack of Logistics.

So if there were more Logistics, this would fix the issue, as you would no longer feel the need to assist in the Support role.


That makes a lot of sense.

What doesn't make sense is your solution.


You want to make Logistics *less* important, so they're less essential, so the lack of Logistics is less detrimental to the gameplay.

This will *not* encourage people to play Logistics at all, in fact it will discourage them more than they already are, because now the need for logistics is lessened.

This is bad.

So if you true goal is to have more Logistics on the field, then buff to suit so that people are more encouraged to actually play it. That is how you fix the problem.

What you should *really* be advocating for, if you want flexibility, is a proper overhaul of the Frame suits so that they can perform the middleground you seem to want so you can play both roles (to a weaker extent) at the same time.

Have you stopped to consider why the Logi player count is low? And I'm not talking about the derpy WP farmers, I'm talking about *real* Logistics. Why do you think there are so few of them?

That may the reason for you, but I can assure you that is not the reason for most people. The main reason people are discouraged from playing Logistics is that not only is by far the most expensive class (Both in ISK and SP) but it is also the weakest combat frame in the game. It has bad speed, bad stamina, bad HP, and extremely limited bonuses. High level Logi suits run upwards over 250k ISK, and die faster than anything else in the game.

I'm not saying you should balance around ISK cost, but who the hell is going to want to get in a stumpy weak and slow suit that's going to cost them an arm and a leg and die faster than another role which can still get most of the job done with a suit which is FAR more survivable. You can't play the Support Role if you're dead, no matter how good your gear is, so why would I want to run Logistics? If I die too easily, then I can't play the support role at all. So people realized it was better to just play a non-logi role because it was better to run a gimped support fit on a better class of suit and survive, rather than run a full support fit, die, and be useless.

The fact that you can't even recognize the true problem behind the lack of Logistics, and insist on simply buffing your own class, shows that what you're more interested in cramming your own playstyle down everyone's throat rather that actually fixing a serious problem in the game. So don't sit there and spew crap like "This is what the players want so we should just make the class I don't play be less important" as some lame excuse.

It's clear you have no idea what you're talking

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0

I'm out.

And the majority of us seem to think you are wrong and need to quit sh*tting up the forums.

It's not that you're making a thread. It's making ten of them in rapid succession that is bloody juvenile.

So are you against 'strict Policies' like "Only Commandos get 2 Light Weapons" "Only Heavies & Sentinels get Heavy Weapons" "Sentinels Can't use Equipment" "Only Scouts Can readily fit Cloaks"? Because you're clearly against "Only Logistics can readily fit uplinks". They're all 'strict policies' to prevent roles from doing certain things, so surely you must be against all of them, right?

Chosen by who? People who think Bandwidth was a Buff to Logistics are sadly confused. Bandwidth did not in any way make Logistics better at what it does in any way. All it did was make other roles less effective in faking the Logistics role, which make the Logistics more necessary, but It did not make them any better.

Things That You can Do to Support Your Team with equipment

Repair Tool - Doesn't use Bandwidth
Active Scanner - Doesn't use Bandwidth
Nanite Injector - Doesn't use Bandwidth
Nanohives - Requires Bandwidth
Demolitions - Requires Bandwidth
Uplinks - Requires Bandwidth

So, half of the support functions that Logistics do, don't even require bandwidth, so even if you have 0 badwidth, you could still perform half of possible support options with your equipment slot. So how exactly can you "not perform a minimal amount of team support" when there are 50%+ of the available options are open to you?

What class, tier of Suit, and tier of uplink are you trying to use?

EDIT: You know it doesn't even matter. What you're basically saying is "I want an uplink and something else deployed at the same time" even though you suit has one equipment *for a reason*. If you want to make use of multiply types of equipment simultaneously *use a Logistics suit* that's why they exist! So you can do that!

What you're effectively asking for is Assaults to have two equipment slots. Further devaluing the Logistics role.

You're just repeating yourself, but your end goal is to be able to deploy uplinks and keep them active at the same time as whatever other piece of equipment you want to use. The end result is that you want two equipment at the same time, uplinks, and something else.

Well well whatever, its clear you're only interested in buffing your own class rather than fixing the underpowered support role. As you put, if you dislike the playstyle of the Assault because it can't have uplinks and nanohives deployed at the same time, then you should just migrate away from it.

1. It would increase the number of uplinks on the field by 1 for every assault. Propagating the problem further.

2. It would make the logis less important, when they're already too unimportant. Propagating the problem further.

1. It would increase the number of uplinks on the field by 1 for every assault. Propagating the problem further.

2. It would make the logis less important, when they're already too unimportant. Propagating the problem further.

It doesn't matter. Simply put, if a suit has a single equipment slot, it's intention is allow it to make use of a single equipment at a time. If it was supposed to have 2 at a time, it would have had 2 equipment slots. I have no issue with Assaults carrying Uplinks. What I have an issue with is them dropping uplinks then just getting around their intended limitation of 1 equipment by swapping fits to deploy a second equipment type.



We've already established that there is a lack of Logistics on the field. The current usage is significantly lower than it used to be, and this is because of subsequent nerfs to the Logistics class time and time again. Even the Logi you linked to stated that this is the case. Let me clarify:



People stopped playing Logi *because of nerfs* not because they found the role to be boring. Nerfs --> Less Logis --> Less Uplinks. You have stated yourself that the lack of logis on the field is problematic in that there is insufficient equipment being dropped to support the battle. Therefor it is painfully clear that in order to reverse a negative effect, you reverse the cause of said effect. The solution is to buff Logistics.

If we assume everyone has a single equipment slot, you have 32 Equipment Slots on the field, so the absolute maximum would be 96. Obviously this is an extreme case, as not everyone has an equipment slot, and some have more, and it is extremely unlikely that everyone on the team will be using uplinks at the same time.

The point to take away from this is not the number of uplinks, its the number of intended equipment types on the field. If 32 Assaults want to drop 3 uplinks each and have 96 uplinks on the field? I have zero issue with that.

Secondly, you simply proved my point by linking me to a Logistics player who mirrored my sentiments that *the reason there isn't enough logistics is because they got nerfed* which your solution isn't to buff logis, it's to buff yourself so you can do their job them. And yes he said "Use your uplinks" but he didn't say "Use your uplinks, and hives, and then maybe even switch to a needle once you're all set up. What he's saying is "You've got limited support abilities, if you're going to ***** that we don't do our job, then help us support". He said nothing about "And abuse the system to get around your lack of equipment slots"

In this particular case, I'm not concerned with spam. Im concerned with you effectively gaining a second equipment slot.

Tell me, why are you so against simply buffing the Logis in order to encourage their use and thus get the intended effect of better support on the field?

If you make logis more like assaults, then essentially, you'll make a super assault plus - fun for fighting and can carry/deploy a bunch of equipment. Then people will leave assault behind and play super assault because it offers the same fun with more options. Then the assault fanboys will say, hey we need more incentives as assaults, etc. It is a downward spiral. Why can't we leave the suits alone, admit they are what they are and that the number of people who want to play them will vary with the context of the game/meta.

Slayer Logi fear is irrational.

What you're trying to do is buff a class which is actually in a pretty solid spot, sans some tweaks to its attacking bonuses.

You're also ignoring a class which is innately underpowered.

I don't see how it makes any sense at all to buff the Assault class and leave the Logi underpowered.

You don't get it. There are quite a few people whom I talk to on a regular basis who don't play the game at all because the Logi is in such a ****** place. They're only interested in playing the support role and nothing else, so until that role is more viable, they're not interested at all. There are also many other players who respecced out of Logi or simply trained something else, myself included, because they no longer felt viable on the battlefield after countless nerfs.

Buffing the Logi isn't going to make people who had no interest in Support previously to spec into it, that's not my intention. The whole point is to make those who actually want to play the support role but don't because their suits suck, actually want to pick the suit back up again. So you want to make the game fun? Great. Then let people who want to run support actually have a fighting chance at doing so instead of just handing off the leftovers to everyone else.

And then you won't need that extra bandwidth for your Assault since there will be more, better logis on the field.

I understand your intention, but I prefer to just fix the source of a problem rather than place temporary measures in. I apologize for being agressive earlier, I just get frustrated with the lack of action on CCP's part to fix the issue at hand.