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Mad Syringe
ReDust Inc.
432
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Posted - 2015.01.07 13:22:00 -
[31] - Quote
+1 for more ammo on the md |
Forlorn Destrier
Incorruptibles
3169
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Posted - 2015.01.07 14:04:00 -
[32] - Quote
Atiim wrote:As many players know, Mass Drivers have a very limited ammunition total.
While I'm fine with it not having as much ammo as other types of weapons, there is a problem with it having too little ammo as the amount of kills it can obtain before needing a resupply is disproportionate with other weapons.
Kills Per Capacity
For example, it takes (on average) about 24 rounds to kill the average suit with a CR. Since CRs have a maximum of 325 rounds, that means you can kill about 14 enemies before needing to replenish your ammunition.
However, it takes about 4 rounds to kill an enemy with the Mass Driver, meaning you can only kill 5 players before having to replenish your ammunition. Not only is that disproportional, but that's not even enough to kill an entire squad.
Additional Kills With Ammunition Skill
Then we have the Ammunition skills, which makes things even more disproportionate. At Ammo V, the CR receives an extra 81 rounds, allowing it to kill an extra 4 people. On the other hand, the MD receives 6 rounds, which only allows it to kill 1 extra player.
Only being able to kill 1 extra player isn't worth the SP investment, especially when the CR allows you to kill 4 extra players with the same SP costs.
My Solution
Mass Driers are a Launcher, and have AoE capabilities, which means that they should still have a lower KPC than the Conventional Rifles. However, I believe that the gap needs to be reduced from 66% to somewhere reasonable, such as 35%.
That in mind, I believe that they should have an ammo capacity of 36 (30 in reserve, with 6 in the mag). Then, the Ammo skill should be +2.5 rounds per level (giving it +3 max kills instead of only +1 max kills).
I think your numbers are off - for me it is an average of 2-3 shots per kill.
I am the Forgotten Warhorse, the Lord of Lightning
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ResistanceGTA
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
1725
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Posted - 2015.01.07 15:00:00 -
[33] - Quote
Add it to the Min Assault Bonus like I said when they originally changed the bonuses...but you said no..
If you find an issue and I stumble upon your thread, I will do my darnedest to get the issue known.
Also, Raptors...
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Vitantur Nothus
Nos Nothi
1534
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Posted - 2015.01.07 17:42:00 -
[34] - Quote
Her Chosen wrote:I'm sorry, but any weapon that allows you to miss your opponent 6m to the left, or right, does not need a buff.
It's a low-skill weapon, meant for casual players. It should not generate as many kills or have the same effects as aim-based weapons.
Never considered Kaughst or Regular Trooper to be a low-skill players. When I think low-skill, the HMG and HAV are first to come to mind. |
KA24DERT
TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback
978
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Posted - 2015.01.07 19:15:00 -
[35] - Quote
Doc DDD wrote:The mass driver does not need a buff in anyway
/thread Et Tu, Brute?
BAN ADVANCED GEAR FROM PUBS | Mass Driver Advocate
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KA24DERT
TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback
978
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Posted - 2015.01.07 19:16:00 -
[36] - Quote
Vitantur Nothus wrote:Her Chosen wrote:I'm sorry, but any weapon that allows you to miss your opponent 6m to the left, or right, does not need a buff.
It's a low-skill weapon, meant for casual players. It should not generate as many kills or have the same effects as aim-based weapons. Never considered Kaughst or Regular Trooper to be a low-skill players. When I think low-skill, the HMG and HAV are first to come to mind. Obviously anyone who refuses to play "L1R1 Hero" is a scrub.
BAN ADVANCED GEAR FROM PUBS | Mass Driver Advocate
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Vitantur Nothus
Nos Nothi
1538
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Posted - 2015.01.07 19:28:00 -
[37] - Quote
KA24DERT wrote:Vitantur Nothus wrote:Her Chosen wrote:I'm sorry, but any weapon that allows you to miss your opponent 6m to the left, or right, does not need a buff.
It's a low-skill weapon, meant for casual players. It should not generate as many kills or have the same effects as aim-based weapons. Never considered Kaughst or Regular Trooper to be a low-skill players. When I think low-skill, the HMG and HAV are first to come to mind. Obviously anyone who refuses to play "L1R1 Hero" is a scrub.
Not sure what you mean, but if wanted to smoke or eat chips while playing Dust, I'd strap on an HMG or hop in a tank. Perhaps both. |
Gyn Wallace
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
180
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Posted - 2015.01.08 14:47:00 -
[38] - Quote
Her Chosen wrote:Sorry, but the last thing we want again is more MD campers on roofs... Ha! Good one. Because there are so many people getting killed by MDs?
Seriously, the MD has to be near the bottom of the list for kills. I wouldn't be surprised if there were more kills with some of the side-arms than the MD.
That's the really hilarious thing about all this. Back when some people were excessively worried about the return of slayer-logis they were looking for ways to nerf logis (or perhaps just distract from the discussion of still needed buffs for logis) some would suggest that logis should only carry side-arms, not primary weapons.
Here I've been running a logi with an MD for most of Dust514, and in effect I AM running with only a side-arm. The MD doesn't have the stats of a primary weapon. Compare the range, kills, and ammo capacity of the bolt pistol against the MD. I scoffed at the idea that logis should be limited to side-arms, but in effect that's exactly what I've been doing because of my affection for the MD. I routinely get more kills when I try other weapons, like the plasma cannon. I seem to be addicted to the satisfaction of wearing people down and getting kills with one of the weakest/hardest-to-use-well primary weapons in the game. Is this what Laser Rifle aficionados feel like?
When we had that side-arm challenge and I was running an Amar logi with two scrambler pistols my kills went UP. I understand that some people hate getting killed by an MD, just like some people hate getting sniped, or hate getting killed by tanks, but when the stats utterly gut any argument that the MD (or snipers, or tanks) are getting a disproportionate number of kills, its funny to still see people argue that "the last thing we need is more of ___." Its just not true, if we want to play a game with diverse weaponry.
The Dust/Eve Isk Exchange Thread
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides Learning Alliance
5682
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Posted - 2015.01.08 15:25:00 -
[39] - Quote
Her Chosen wrote:I'm sorry, but any weapon that allows you to miss your opponent 6m to the left, or right, does not need a buff.
It's a low-skill weapon, meant for casual players. It should not generate as many kills or have the same effects as aim-based weapons. If you have no experience using a mass driver I would be wiling to bet you could not hit someone at 30m with one before the clip ran out, even if they were standing still.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides Learning Alliance
5682
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Posted - 2015.01.08 15:42:00 -
[40] - Quote
One thing to consider is that the necessity to equip a NanoHive prevents Sentinels from using Mass Drivers. With a 25% resistance to explosive damage Sentinels would have a lot more leeway to use Mass Drivers in Close Quarters.
That is the only issue I can think of with giving the Mass Driver more reserve ammo.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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Orion Sanjeet
Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance
268
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Posted - 2015.01.08 18:17:00 -
[41] - Quote
+1
Increasing the reserve ammo won't make the weapon anymore or less effective than it is and will merely bring it's total kills/bullets ratio a bit closer to the baseline.
Ebola makes me feel all warm and squishy inside.
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Orion Sanjeet
Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance
268
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Posted - 2015.01.08 18:28:00 -
[42] - Quote
IZI doro wrote:Regarding ammunition, increasing the maximum capacity to 30-36 warheads seems to fall under normal anti-personnel payload conventions (5 - 6 "full magazines"). All the anti-personnel weapons except the MD falls under this convention. Even the anti-armor / launcher weapons offer higher payload capacities (SL: 100,000+hp; PLC: 115,500+hp; MD: 5,400+hp / 2,800+hp)
Another issue regarding ammunition is the reload animation. I'd like a individual round reload much like the shotgun, but the internal revolving magazine still needs to swivel out / in. Reload time would be variable depending on the number of units but the minimum is still 3.5 for one round.
3.5/sec FOR ONE ROUND?!?!?! No, there is no way you could possibly have meant 19 seconds for a full reload. I am gonna guess you meant 3.5 for one magazine.
Ebola makes me feel all warm and squishy inside.
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el OPERATOR
Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention
713
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Posted - 2015.01.08 19:36:00 -
[43] - Quote
Orion Sanjeet wrote:IZI doro wrote:Regarding ammunition, increasing the maximum capacity to 30-36 warheads seems to fall under normal anti-personnel payload conventions (5 - 6 "full magazines"). All the anti-personnel weapons except the MD falls under this convention. Even the anti-armor / launcher weapons offer higher payload capacities (SL: 100,000+hp; PLC: 115,500+hp; MD: 5,400+hp / 2,800+hp)
Another issue regarding ammunition is the reload animation. I'd like a individual round reload much like the shotgun, but the internal revolving magazine still needs to swivel out / in. Reload time would be variable depending on the number of units but the minimum is still 3.5 for one round. 3.5/sec FOR ONE ROUND?!?!?! No, there is no way you could possibly have meant 19 seconds for a full reload. I am gonna guess you meant 3.5 for one magazine.
I'm reading that as a request to do a single-round "quick load" with the MD like how SG can in other games. It doesn't make sense that it still take 3.5 seconds tho, might as well just load the full mag.
Open-Beta Vet.
Drunk Night Tree Burner.
This is my Main and Original.
DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
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Atiim
Titans of Phoenix
14951
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Posted - 2015.01.09 16:13:00 -
[44] - Quote
Bump.
The 1st Matari Commando
-HAND
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