Why. Why the hell does these things still exists.

EDIT: Since some people thinks it's perfectly fine, a question to them: Would you say that DS crushing should be brung back to the game? It's quite literally on the same level of bullshit.

Hey Pokey,

The answer depends entirely on what's being ganked and how many of what is doing the ganking. Gankers don't generally use T2 fits, they use the cheapest crap on the market, but lots of it, i.e. a bunch of T1 cruisers, lets say 3 or 4M each x 6 or 7 ships, all land on the 150M Battleship at their optimal, web/scram, blap. Cost about 28M, destroy about 150M, maybe loot 10M, so ratio of about 1:5, but that changes radically if the BS is a pricey mission runner, which can cost over a bil. Then you might need 13 gankers, but your ratio jumps to 1:20. Its hard to get an answer because the numbers can vary so wildly.

Suicide ganking tends not to be profitable; people don't do it for profit, they do it for tears, just like some JLAVing.

I just realize I commented without answering your original question. Yes, dropships should be able to crush things, so long as the damage is mutual and they show up on radar like a Christmas tree. (Merry Christmas, btw.)

With respect to tank balance, I favor slower, more ehp, more expensive tanks. I have trouble feeling bad for tankers whose losses are cheaper than mine when I go AV. Tanks should be end-game force multipliers for well coordinated teams; not newb-friendly hot rods with a get out of trouble nitro button. Any tanker who gets in nade range of two or three enemy AV infantry should die if he isn't accompanied by friendly anti-personnel infantry. Solo tankers speeding around the map are every bit as cheesy as JLAVs.

So in that case it would take 6-7 people in order to pull that off. About how much would it take for a single person to perform the same job?

The tears here are almost as good as last year's.

Let me see if I understand your argument.

You want tanks/AV balanced so that instead of being easy, its somewhat more difficult to kill a tanker who lingers right next to AV infantry for 30 seconds?

If the game were balanced for that circumstance, it would be impossible to kill tankers who don't linger next to AV infantry.

That has very little to do with improving tank/AV balance. I'd support removing JLAVs from the game, as soon as AV infantry has a way to counter tanks just driving away from any troublesome infantry. The JLAVs are used, because there's no other way to catch or trap good tankers, the ones who use their superior mobility. Introduce webber AV nades, webber swarms, or webber plasma cannons, or make flux nades briefly slow tanks down to scout sprinting speeds, ANYTHING to (not take away completely, but) counter the ability of tankers to just drive away from AV infantry, and no one will need to resort to JLAVs to deal with more competent tankers.

I agree that BPOs, that are actually useful as AV, aren't a great way to achieve balance. But currently, they might be the only way to catch good tankers, i.e. the ones that don't just sit there letting AV infantry hose them. Maybe CCP has the numbers on forge/swarm fits lost vs. tanks lost, so that they understand that the balance is better with JLAVs than it would be without them. How can we know? Perhaps CCP will share those numbers with us.

This late into the game and people still care about ISK Price?

JLAVs could cost 100mil ISK and it would still kill you. Gameplay wise you'd still be unaffected by how much ISK was spent on the JLAV so what's the point in complaining about it?

Also, why is driving away a bad thing? Nobody ever said you had to kill it. Making a HAV run= killing it, as it's not there; it's a non threat.

Just because no one ever said I have to doesn't mean I can't or Won't.

Killing HAVs is as valid gameplay as the drive away return drive away WP farming Yo yo.

It's just that one of them actually kills the nerd behind the wheel. Which is the objective. You just have to go through a glacis plate to do it.

Also this.

Teamwork is OP. This takes teamwork out of it.I'm fine if swarms ambush me, I'll be pissed at my team for not helping me (which they hardly ever do). When one person can do the job of a couple people, it pisses me off.

So in that case it would take 6-7 people in order to pull that off. About how much would it take for a single person to perform the same job?

The guy wasn't lingering, a chased it down, cornered it, and then laid into it. ...
Also, why is driving away a bad thing? Nobody ever said you had to kill it. Making a HAV run= killing it, as it's not there; it's a non threat.

...You can't just become overall superior, end all solution to vehicles, that's just wrong.

Also, I like how you assumed that I just want to sit there for 30 seconds without having to worry about infantry, when I've never said that.

Maybe. Sometimes gankers are single individuals using multiple fairly new, cheap accounts. Sometimes they're coordinating with allies. The problem with complaining about the cheapness of gank fits is that they do fit the risk/reward equation. The ganker is almost certain to lose his ships; unless the ganker uses overwhelming force (which is more expensive) the target might escape the gank. Just like the JLAV and targeted tank.

If your loses are more than a HAV, you're doing it wrong. My AV fits are 100k, and my HAV's are at least double that.

I think you're misunderstanding my question. If someone wanted to gank a battleship using only a single ship, about how much would they need to spend in order to achieve this goal?

I think you're misunderstanding my question. If someone wanted to gank a battleship using only a single ship, about how much would they need to spend in order to achieve this goal?

Isk spent building ships in Eve is only circumstantially advantageous.

this is what people fail to realize when they bang the ISK spent drum.

a 20m Interceptor or assault ship hull can spend maybe 10-15 more million to create a solid murder fit in Null and go find a Battleship (which is usually poorly equipped to handle fast moving interceptors) that is engaged, tackle and tear it down piece by piece. Bonus points if you're in an amarr assault ship neuting it to death.

Average T2 fit Battleship: 450-600m ISK

You got ganked for the cost of your ammo for three days.

this is what people fail to realize when they bang the ISK spent drum.

a 20m Interceptor or assault ship hull can spend maybe 10-15 more million to create a solid murder fit in Null and go find a Battleship (which is usually poorly equipped to handle fast moving interceptors) that is engaged, tackle and tear it down piece by piece. Bonus points if you're in an amarr assault ship neuting it to death.

Average T2 fit Battleship: 450-600m ISK

You got ganked for the cost of your ammo for three days.

And tanks usually die as a consequence of multiple people using their AV fits, which have a combined cost that routinely exceeds the value of the tank. Comparing the cost of your single AV fit, which has almost no chance of killing a well driven tank without cooperation from the rest of your team, isn't a useful comparison. If 4 or 5 people have to use AV fits to get 3 or 4 of them in position to do damage quickly enough to kill a good tank driver, the cost of all their fits is properly compared against the cost of the tank.

That isn't the same thing, and you know it.

Yeah they are and Ill be the first to admit that..... but one broken mechanic should not be widely accepted as a positive thing in order to beat the other. JLAV are almost 0 risk for massive potential reward.



Honestly when Rattati speaks of bringing back Marauder, etc I can see why some pilots want them to be OP..... who the **** wants to play a 1.5-3.0 million ISK HAV when a douche bag with less than 50K ISK can instantly wreck you with little to no effort.

If you're taking more than one AV to kill a HAV now, you're still doing it wrong.

Look. When a single AV player can solo a tank,

The way to fix your argument is to present a balanced solution that works against tankers that aren't lousy, i.e. tanks that don't get chased down and cornered by a lone AV infantry.