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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
4068
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Posted - 2014.12.22 16:36:00 -
[1] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Simply put, because it's valid gameplay.
It's not valid if it takes a **** on risk/reward balance. That would be like saying that in EVE I should be able to ram a Marauder Battleship with my Rookie ship and blow it up.
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
Dust514 // Podcast
www.biomassed.net
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
4068
|
Posted - 2014.12.22 18:45:00 -
[2] - Quote
Sole Fenychs wrote:
This is not an argument against JLAVS.
It is, however, a good argument against free LAVs.
Militia LAV then? Not free but cheap enough to not care.
Sole Fenychs wrote:
JLAV is FULL risk, by virtue of costing you an entire fitting (generally around the 40k mark) and having a possibility of failing.
APEX suits cost nothing.
Sole Fenychs wrote:
LAV handling isn't exactly the best in the game. You can die by driving out too early or too late or by missing the tank or by having AV randomly shoot at you... Or by hitting a random rock.
LAV handling if fine if you use the proper control setup and are skilled with them. I used to drift around corners to avoid Swarms back when I used LAVs more frequently, it's not difficult to spear an HAV with an LAV.
Sole Fenychs wrote:
And if you want to raise your probability of success, you need to dish out money for some additional LAV modules, like nitro.
Fun fact, you can fit a Militia Heavy Shield Extender on an LAV. Cheap or free if you have the BPO.
Sole Fenychs wrote:
It's the incarnation of risk/reward. You make your death inevitable and use it to do a lot of damage.
Not in terms of ISK efficiency. Again, it would be like taking a free Noob ship in EVE and crashing it into a 2 Billion ISK Marauder Battleship and blowing both up, then saying "Well, I guaranteed my death, so that's fair!"
"Hell, the HAV driver has an easier time escaping than the LAV driver. If they see the hit coming but can't counter anymore, they can just let their fatsuit teleport out of the vehicle."
Again, Free/Cheap LAV instantly killing a 1Million+ HAV. It does not matter if his damn clone dies, no one cares about a single clone dead (especially since most pilots just use a starter suit anyways. I would rather lose my clone than lose the vehicle.
And if you're THAT upset about them hopping out, then add a time to slow down climbing in and out of vehicles. Don't use that as an excuse to defend the JLAV.
"JLAV is the vehicle version of sniping, with the difference that you can't hide behind the redline or even any cover at all."
Right. Sniping. Except in this case shooting them anywhere on the body is an instant kill.... Give me a break.
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
Dust514 // Podcast
www.biomassed.net
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
4077
|
Posted - 2014.12.22 23:39:00 -
[3] - Quote
TheEnd762 wrote:I love how everyone calling JLAVing a "crutch" and "for scrubs" is rolling around in super-tanked mobile murder fortresses with ridiculous armor/shield reppers, and likely wearing a heavy suit with HMG to mow down any stragglers.
I have no issue with the tactic itself. I have an issue with how effective it is compared to how much it costs the driver of the LAV. Either make it less effective, or make it cost more.
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
Dust514 // Podcast
www.biomassed.net
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
4087
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Posted - 2014.12.23 15:57:00 -
[4] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:
Suicide ganking says you're wrong.
Suicide ganking actually costs ISK.
Also, I'm not too familiar with the exact finances of ISK efficiency in ganking since it's not an activity I partake in. Typically speaking what ratio of cost does it take to gank your average T1 Battleship with a T2 fit?
I know people love to cite "BUT BUT BUT WHAT ABOUT GANKING HULKS?!" well sure if the HAV was a mining vehicle I'd totally buy that argument, but it's not, its a heavy combat vehicle, much like a battleship. So how much ISK do you have to spend to gank your average battleship? I can't seem to get an answer out of anyone.
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
Dust514 // Podcast
www.biomassed.net
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
4093
|
Posted - 2014.12.23 17:54:00 -
[5] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:It's official!
This thread has achieved critical stupid.
Everyone who has posted here should feel ashamed.
I am without shame, for only he who is shameless can call himself Pokey.
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
Dust514 // Podcast
www.biomassed.net
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
4126
|
Posted - 2014.12.24 15:18:00 -
[6] - Quote
Gyn Wallace wrote:
Hey Pokey,
The answer depends entirely on what's being ganked and how many of what is doing the ganking. Gankers don't generally use T2 fits, they use the cheapest crap on the market, but lots of it, i.e. a bunch of T1 cruisers, lets say 3 or 4M each x 6 or 7 ships, all land on the 150M Battleship at their optimal, web/scram, blap. Cost about 28M, destroy about 150M, maybe loot 10M, so ratio of about 1:5, but that changes radically if the BS is a pricey mission runner, which can cost over a bil. Then you might need 13 gankers, but your ratio jumps to 1:20. Its hard to get an answer because the numbers can vary so wildly.
Suicide ganking tends not to be profitable; people don't do it for profit, they do it for tears, just like some JLAVing.
So in that case it would take 6-7 people in order to pull that off. About how much would it take for a single person to perform the same job?
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
Dust514 // Podcast
www.biomassed.net
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
4128
|
Posted - 2014.12.24 16:14:00 -
[7] - Quote
Godin Thekiller wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:
So in that case it would take 6-7 people in order to pull that off. About how much would it take for a single person to perform the same job?
Also this. Teamwork is OP. This takes teamwork out of it.I'm fine if swarms ambush me, I'll be pissed at my team for not helping me (which they hardly ever do). When one person can do the job of a couple people, it pisses me off.
I think its fair when a group of people working together have a far better ISK efficiency. That's more or less what Force Multiplier means. But when its a solo JLAV vs an HAV.....I kinda expect a small ISK ratio.
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
Dust514 // Podcast
www.biomassed.net
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
4147
|
Posted - 2014.12.24 18:49:00 -
[8] - Quote
Gyn Wallace wrote:
Maybe. Sometimes gankers are single individuals using multiple fairly new, cheap accounts. Sometimes they're coordinating with allies. The problem with complaining about the cheapness of gank fits is that they do fit the risk/reward equation. The ganker is almost certain to lose his ships; unless the ganker uses overwhelming force (which is more expensive) the target might escape the gank. Just like the JLAV and targeted tank.
I think you're misunderstanding my question. If someone wanted to gank a battleship using only a single ship, about how much would they need to spend in order to achieve this goal?
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
Dust514 // Podcast
www.biomassed.net
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