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Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5923	Posted - 2014.12.22 18:22:00 - [31] - Quote Jacques Cayton II wrote: So what your saying is you don't want an armor upgrade in the high slot. Say what 3/10 try harder EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
jace silencerww D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 116	Posted - 2014.12.22 18:41:00 - [32] - Quote Jacques Cayton II wrote: jace silencerww wrote: does no one remember hav or murder taxis? they had the resist mods plus natural resist. however 20% maybe to high why not try 6% basic, 8% adv & 10% to one type per mod. yes there will be stacking penalies but only if you stack the same type of resist mod, cpu/pg of the damage mods, armor ones on high side and shields to low. this way heavies can not abuse them to op levels, the worst heavy to abuse this would be caldari making their armor harder to take out or the Minnie but both have lower ehp the the gall or amarr by 200-400 (easily on protos). logis and assault could stack 2-3 making them more of a defender, resist damage but at the cost of dealing damage. the resist mods themselves should be broke up like the damage resist of the heavies. hybrid - blasters, hybrid- railgun, laser weapons, projectile weapons, both having an armor on high slots and shield on low slots the amarr heavies would be harder to kill when going up against with another heavy since they have a natural 15% resist the throw another 10% on, however 5% damage mod plus proficiency of the hmg 15% (when in armor) and the natural 10 of being an armor weapon being it to 25% so it is equal damage plus resist, Are you guys forgetting armor resistance modules would be high slots? An amarr heavy has wahat 1 high slot? Thats sooooooo op. Same goes for Caldari heavy 1 low slot 4 highs no room for resistance modules it was a joke lol I was showing that the amarr heavy would not be op. if the caldari heavy stacked all armor resist on the high slots that the limited armor it can stack would help them when they are fluxed. armor resist mods on high slot shields on low each have resist in these hybrid - blasters, hybrid- railgun, laser weapons, projectile weapons. True Adamance wrote: NOPE NOPE NOPE. Resistance Modules fit in the correct racial slot. Shields- High Armour - Low that would be op amarr heavy with 2 resist too both projectile, and hybrid railgun with 750 armor and a logi will be very hard to kill unless REs or grenades
jace silencerww D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 116	Posted - 2014.12.22 18:45:00 - [33] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Jace I think adding resistance mods would natively require a rework the sentinel defenses again. Also you have to remember that the amarr rail resistance is on the shields, which means the amsent isn't as cut and dried as you might think. The Sentinel suits won't gain as much traction as one might think. The downside to resists is the fact that if you stack resists you sacrifice HP. This is a big deal. Stacking plates you can get away with buffer tanking. With resists you cannot get away with it as well. You become dependent upon reps. Further because as resists are no-drawback they need to provide less overall HP than plates. I'm on the fence about how to balance them against extenders because you can spike shield regen through the roof. For single-damage type hardeners it needs to cap at about 20% ish. Since three plates can almost double your EHP triple stacking hardeners should provide less benefit to raw EHP while providing solid protection vs. Specific damage. Remember plates protect against everything. But if you four-stack projectile resists to fight other sentinels you will be leaving yourself untanked vs. Rails AR and lasers. In short yer dead. understandable but armor resist will be high slots and shield resist low slot so amarr heavy can still stack 4 plates and have 1 armor resist in his high slot stilling editing brb
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5925	Posted - 2014.12.22 19:30:00 - [34] - Quote jace silencerww wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Jace I think adding resistance mods would natively require a rework the sentinel defenses again. Also you have to remember that the amarr rail resistance is on the shields, which means the amsent isn't as cut and dried as you might think. The Sentinel suits won't gain as much traction as one might think. The downside to resists is the fact that if you stack resists you sacrifice HP. This is a big deal. Stacking plates you can get away with buffer tanking. With resists you cannot get away with it as well. You become dependent upon reps. Further because as resists are no-drawback they need to provide less overall HP than plates. I'm on the fence about how to balance them against extenders because you can spike shield regen through the roof. For single-damage type hardeners it needs to cap at about 20% ish. Since three plates can almost double your EHP triple stacking hardeners should provide less benefit to raw EHP while providing solid protection vs. Specific damage. Remember plates protect against everything. But if you four-stack projectile resists to fight other sentinels you will be leaving yourself untanked vs. Rails AR and lasers. In short yer dead. understandable but armor resist will be high slots only and shield resist on low slots only so amarr heavy can still stack 4 plates and have 1 armor resist in his high slot however if he wanted to make his shields more resist he could due to shield resist are low slots. Oh dear Christ no. No no no no no. If they want to have resists they must sacrifice HP mods. putting armor resists in high and shield resists in low is the WORST way to balance the mods. Hands down, WORST. It needs to be madee so that if you fit a resist module you must sacrifice a slot reserved for HP or regen of your tank type. Otherwise you've just made sentinels even MORE disgustingly hard to kill and you give the assaults current sentinel level EHP. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
ACT1ON BASTARD Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 311	Posted - 2014.12.22 22:46:00 - [35] - Quote Protection from fotm sounds interesting. Say everyone switches to RR or something, just put on a rail resist. Really cool idea.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 16218	Posted - 2014.12.22 22:49:00 - [36] - Quote ACT1ON BASTARD wrote: Protection from fotm sounds interesting. Say everyone switches to RR or something, just put on a rail resist. Really cool idea. It's not a Railgun Resistance Mod..... It's a Kinetic Resistance Amplifier/ Plating *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5929	Posted - 2014.12.23 05:21:00 - [37] - Quote True Adamance wrote: ACT1ON BASTARD wrote: Protection from fotm sounds interesting. Say everyone switches to RR or something, just put on a rail resist. Really cool idea. It's not a Railgun Resistance Mod..... It's a Kinetic Resistance Amplifier/ Plating it's a railgun resistance mod. CCP didn't use the same damage profiles EVE does. quit trying to force EVE terminology that isn't being used. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Fizzer XCIV Heaven's Lost Property Negative-Feedback 1496	Posted - 2014.12.23 05:36:00 - [38] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: True Adamance wrote: ACT1ON BASTARD wrote: Protection from fotm sounds interesting. Say everyone switches to RR or something, just put on a rail resist. Really cool idea. It's not a Railgun Resistance Mod..... It's a Kinetic Resistance Amplifier/ Plating it's a railgun resistance mod. CCP didn't use the same damage profiles EVE does. quit trying to force EVE terminology that isn't being used. Thank you for saying it! I can't stand True when he does that ****. Things that work well in EVE, like resistance modules, just won't work in Dust. Let me ask all you "Dust should be just like EVE" guys out there something. Would you even entertain the idea of equipping resistance modules if you knew you were going to be in a 16v16 battle where the enemy is using a practically random assortment of weapons? What if the alternative (standard HP mods) gave as much relative HP as they do in Dust, where a single plate can boost HP by up to 50%? Someone's gotta tell the stupids that their ideas are bad, and I guess it's my job...
Fizzer XCIV Heaven's Lost Property Negative-Feedback 1497	Posted - 2014.12.23 05:58:00 - [39] - Quote Let me just do a little bit of math to prove that even 15% of flat resistance would be pretty much useless on anything but Gallente and Amarr Sentinels. An Amarr Assault with 4 complex Armor Plates(already a shitfit, but I'm using an extreme example to get my point across), has about 990 Armor. A 15% omni resistance module would raise that HP to be effectively 1160. Only 22 more HP than just another Plate would add. About 170 HP... But let's think for a moment. That fit would have no repair modules, and would take almost 8 minutes to fully repair. Useless. So obviously, we are going to need to remove an armor plate or 2 to have a repairer or 2... Let's say we make room for 2 repairers. This will result in a much more effective repair rate. But it cuts our Armor HP down to 690. Now our Resistance module only adds 121 HP worth of resistance! Might as well just equip an Enhanced Armor Plate, which will add almost the exact same amount of HP, instead of wasting the PG/CPU to fit a Complex mod. TL;DR Even 15% of flat resistance would be pracically useless on all but Armor Heavies, and they don't really need a buff. Someone's gotta tell the stupids that their ideas are bad, and I guess it's my job...
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5930	Posted - 2014.12.23 06:02:00 - [40] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: Let me just do a little bit of math to prove that even 15% of flat resistance would be pretty much useless on anything but Gallente and Amarr Sentinels. An Amarr Assault with 4 complex Armor Plates(already a shitfit, but I'm using an extreme example to get my point across), has about 990 Armor. A 15% omni resistance module would raise that HP to be effectively 1160. Only 22 more HP than just another Plate would add. About 170 HP... But let's think for a moment. That fit would have no repair modules, and would take almost 8 minutes to fully repair. Useless. So obviously, we are going to need to remove an armor plate or 2 to have a repairer or 2... Let's say we make room for 2 repairers. This will result in a much more effective repair rate. But it cuts our Armor HP down to 690. Now our Resistance module only adds 121 HP worth of resistance! Might as well just equip an Enhanced Armor Plate, which will add almost the exact same amount of HP, instead of wasting the PG/CPU to fit a Complex mod. TL;DR Even 15% of flat resistance would be pracically useless on all but Armor Heavies, and they don't really need a buff. where you say useless, I say "this has no meaningful penalties." adding the EHP of an enhanced plate isn't a downside. It also means each armor point counts for more, which means any fitted regen modules become comparatively much more efficient because they rep a higher percent of overall health per tick. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.

Fizzer XCIV Heaven's Lost Property Negative-Feedback 1497	Posted - 2014.12.23 06:26:00 - [41] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: Let me just do a little bit of math to prove that even 15% of flat resistance would be pretty much useless on anything but Gallente and Amarr Sentinels. An Amarr Assault with 4 complex Armor Plates(already a shitfit, but I'm using an extreme example to get my point across), has about 990 Armor. A 15% omni resistance module would raise that HP to be effectively 1160. Only 22 more HP than just another Plate would add. About 170 HP... But let's think for a moment. That fit would have no repair modules, and would take almost 8 minutes to fully repair. Useless. So obviously, we are going to need to remove an armor plate or 2 to have a repairer or 2... Let's say we make room for 2 repairers. This will result in a much more effective repair rate. But it cuts our Armor HP down to 690. Now our Resistance module only adds 121 HP worth of resistance! Might as well just equip an Enhanced Armor Plate, which will add almost the exact same amount of HP, instead of wasting the PG/CPU to fit a Complex mod. TL;DR Even 15% of flat resistance would be pracically useless on all but Armor Heavies, and they don't really need a buff. where you say useless, I say "this has no meaningful penalties." adding the EHP of an enhanced plate isn't a downside. It also means each armor point counts for more, which means any fitted regen modules become comparatively much more efficient because they rep a higher percent of overall health per tick. So you agree a Complex 15% Omni Resistance Mod (which is significantly more than anyone else would have suggested, really), is a little bit better than an Enhanced Armor Plate? That sounds balanced. A Complex mod should be a bit better than an enhanced one. I say 15% omni resistance is fine then! Just scale it down from there! Same scale as the Plates! An enhanced one would give 14%, and a basic one would give 11% The percentages will have to be completely redone for Sheilds... Someone's gotta tell the stupids that their ideas are bad, and I guess it's my job...
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5931	Posted - 2014.12.23 06:46:00 - [42] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: Let me just do a little bit of math to prove that even 15% of flat resistance would be pretty much useless on anything but Gallente and Amarr Sentinels. An Amarr Assault with 4 complex Armor Plates(already a shitfit, but I'm using an extreme example to get my point across), has about 990 Armor. A 15% omni resistance module would raise that HP to be effectively 1160. Only 22 more HP than just another Plate would add. About 170 HP... But let's think for a moment. That fit would have no repair modules, and would take almost 8 minutes to fully repair. Useless. So obviously, we are going to need to remove an armor plate or 2 to have a repairer or 2... Let's say we make room for 2 repairers. This will result in a much more effective repair rate. But it cuts our Armor HP down to 690. Now our Resistance module only adds 121 HP worth of resistance! Might as well just equip an Enhanced Armor Plate, which will add almost the exact same amount of HP, instead of wasting the PG/CPU to fit a Complex mod. TL;DR Even 15% of flat resistance would be pracically useless on all but Armor Heavies, and they don't really need a buff. where you say useless, I say "this has no meaningful penalties." adding the EHP of an enhanced plate isn't a downside. It also means each armor point counts for more, which means any fitted regen modules become comparatively much more efficient because they rep a higher percent of overall health per tick. So you agree a Complex 15% Omni Resistance Mod (which is significantly more than anyone else would have suggested, really), is a little bit better than an Enhanced Armor Plate? That sounds balanced. A Complex mod should be a bit better than an enhanced one. I say 15% omni resistance is fine then! Just scale it down from there! Same scale as the Plates! An enhanced one would give 14%, and a basic one would give 11% The percentages will have to be completely redone for Sheilds... No they won't. Shields won't need to be retooled. Theres a reason resistance mods in EVE give identical resistance adds to shields and armor. It does actually balance out and would make shields strong as hell against armor cracking weapons. But shieldbusters will still rip them open. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Fizzer XCIV Heaven's Lost Property Negative-Feedback 1497	Posted - 2014.12.23 07:27:00 - [43] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: Let me just do a little bit of math to prove that even 15% of flat resistance would be pretty much useless on anything but Gallente and Amarr Sentinels. An Amarr Assault with 4 complex Armor Plates(already a shitfit, but I'm using an extreme example to get my point across), has about 990 Armor. A 15% omni resistance module would raise that HP to be effectively 1160. Only 22 more HP than just another Plate would add. About 170 HP... But let's think for a moment. That fit would have no repair modules, and would take almost 8 minutes to fully repair. Useless. So obviously, we are going to need to remove an armor plate or 2 to have a repairer or 2... Let's say we make room for 2 repairers. This will result in a much more effective repair rate. But it cuts our Armor HP down to 690. Now our Resistance module only adds 121 HP worth of resistance! Might as well just equip an Enhanced Armor Plate, which will add almost the exact same amount of HP, instead of wasting the PG/CPU to fit a Complex mod. TL;DR Even 15% of flat resistance would be pracically useless on all but Armor Heavies, and they don't really need a buff. where you say useless, I say "this has no meaningful penalties." adding the EHP of an enhanced plate isn't a downside. It also means each armor point counts for more, which means any fitted regen modules become comparatively much more efficient because they rep a higher percent of overall health per tick. So you agree a Complex 15% Omni Resistance Mod (which is significantly more than anyone else would have suggested, really), is a little bit better than an Enhanced Armor Plate? That sounds balanced. A Complex mod should be a bit better than an enhanced one. I say 15% omni resistance is fine then! Just scale it down from there! Same scale as the Plates! An enhanced one would give 14%, and a basic one would give 11% The percentages will have to be completely redone for Sheilds... No they won't. Shields won't need to be retooled. Theres a reason resistance mods in EVE give identical resistance adds to shields and armor. It does actually balance out and would make shields strong as hell against armor cracking weapons. But shieldbusters will still rip them open. 15% resists would actually end up being a lot more effective on shields. A lot. On a Calassault with 4 Complex Extenders, a 15% Resistance mod would actually provide 107.5 HP worth of HP, which is 148.1% more efficient than a Complex extender, with none of the drawbacks. They would have to be reworked here since Shields and Armor work differently than they do in EVE. Someone's gotta tell the stupids that their ideas are bad, and I guess it's my job...
Fizzer XCIV Heaven's Lost Property Negative-Feedback 1498	Posted - 2014.12.23 07:53:00 - [44] - Quote All right, I did some math. Let's say we continue the same trend we did with the Armor ones, where a Complex Resistance mod is only a little better than a Complex HP mod when you already have 4 of the HP mods on the corresponding Assault suit, Cal assault in this case. So, a Calassault with 4 Complex extenders has 609 HP. Another Extender will bump it to 681. Thats the equivalent of taking 10.5% less damage. With that in mind, I say a Complex Shield Resistance Mod should block 11% of all damage. Let's just follow the same ratios that Extenders do, just like we did. In the end, we get: Complex Shield Resistance mod: 11% Enhanced Shield Resistance mod: 9% Basic Shield Resistance mod: 6% Complex Armor Resistance mod: 15% Enhanced Armor Resistance mod: 12% Basic Armor Reistance mod: 9% Someone's gotta tell the stupids that their ideas are bad, and I guess it's my job...
Fizzer XCIV Heaven's Lost Property Negative-Feedback 1498	Posted - 2014.12.23 08:00:00 - [45] - Quote Although honestly, I don't even think there should be resistance modules. In EVE, you can tell if an enemy is using a fit that resists your weapons, and you have enough time to react to that by switching ammo types. This is part of the reason they work there. You just can't really do either in Dust. They would either be horribly underpowered, or overpowered. There really isn't an inbetween here because its a shooter, not a Spaceship MMO. Someone's gotta tell the stupids that their ideas are bad, and I guess it's my job...
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5936	Posted - 2014.12.23 18:25:00 - [46] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: Although honestly, I don't even think there should be resistance modules. In EVE, you can tell if an enemy is using a fit that resists your weapons, and you have enough time to react to that by switching ammo types. This is part of the reason they work there. You just can't really do either in Dust. They would either be horribly underpowered, or overpowered. There really isn't an inbetween here because its a shooter, not a Spaceship MMO. really the only way to do it is omni resists in lieu of plates or extenders. they would allow players to build better recovery tank builds while not being mandatory to swap away from plate/extender builds. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.


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