DUST Search - an idea for resistance mods.

Fizzer XCIV wrote:

Breakin Stuff wrote:

Fizzer XCIV wrote:

Let me just do a little bit of math to prove that even 15% of flat resistance would be pretty much useless on anything but Gallente and Amarr Sentinels.

An Amarr Assault with 4 complex Armor Plates(already a shitfit, but I'm using an extreme example to get my point across), has about 990 Armor. A 15% omni resistance module would raise that HP to be effectively 1160. Only 22 more HP than just another Plate would add. About 170 HP...

But let's think for a moment. That fit would have no repair modules, and would take almost 8 minutes to fully repair. Useless.
So obviously, we are going to need to remove an armor plate or 2 to have a repairer or 2...

Let's say we make room for 2 repairers. This will result in a much more effective repair rate.
But it cuts our Armor HP down to 690. Now our Resistance module only adds 121 HP worth of resistance!
Might as well just equip an Enhanced Armor Plate, which will add almost the exact same amount of HP, instead of wasting the PG/CPU to fit a Complex mod.

TL;DR Even 15% of flat resistance would be pracically useless on all but Armor Heavies, and they don't really need a buff.

where you say useless, I say "this has no meaningful penalties."

adding the EHP of an enhanced plate isn't a downside. It also means each armor point counts for more, which means any fitted regen modules become comparatively much more efficient because they rep a higher percent of overall health per tick.

So you agree a Complex 15% Omni Resistance Mod (which is significantly more than anyone else would have suggested, really), is a little bit better than an Enhanced Armor Plate?
That sounds balanced. A Complex mod should be a bit better than an enhanced one.

I say 15% omni resistance is fine then!
Just scale it down from there! Same scale as the Plates!
An enhanced one would give 14%, and a basic one would give 11%

The percentages will have to be completely redone for Sheilds...

EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.


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Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5908	Posted - 2014.12.21 20:28:00 - [1] - Quote resist only fits don't work in anything resembling PvP. You need to have a buffer and some form of reps to back the resists or the fits wind up being deceptively squishy. Especially in a combat environment like DUST where there is literally no possible way to predict enemy fits. Plus everyone will just stack projectile resists to counter heavy spam EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5912	Posted - 2014.12.21 23:20:00 - [2] - Quote Megaman Trigger wrote: I assume that any Resistance Mods would have a stacking penalty? anything with a percent base would. But for overall resist mods (omni resists) anything over 10-12% would be excessive as hell. For single-damage resists you could go upwards of 15-18% before you break the calculations. the way CCP sets up their calculations it is literally impossible to get 100% resists in any category. I think the highest I have personally seen in EVE was 82%? But that was active tank resist mods, not passive. Actives give MUCH higher values. Edit: I need to redo my math. Generally a omni resist module is ROUGHLY equivalent to the module used to add raw HP like plates or extenders. So a resist mod for omni would be roughly equivalent EHP to a plate or an extender. It just means you're more able to take advantage of reps easily. HP stacking for holding the line, resists work best for regen builds. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5915	Posted - 2014.12.22 09:01:00 - [3] - Quote Jace I think adding resistance mods would natively require a rework the sentinel defenses again. Also you have to remember that the amarr rail resistance is on the shields, which means the amsent isn't as cut and dried as you might think. The Sentinel suits won't gain as much traction as one might think. The downside to resists is the fact that if you stack resists you sacrifice HP. This is a big deal. Stacking plates you can get away with buffer tanking. With resists you cannot get away with it as well. You become dependent upon reps. Further because as resists are no-drawback they need to provide less overall HP than plates. I'm on the fence about how to balance them against extenders because you can spike shield regen through the roof. For single-damage type hardeners it needs to cap at about 20% ish. Since three plates can almost double your EHP triple stacking hardeners should provide less benefit to raw EHP while providing solid protection vs. Specific damage. Remember plates protect against everything. But if you four-stack projectile resists to fight other sentinels you will be leaving yourself untanked vs. Rails AR and lasers. In short yer dead. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5923	Posted - 2014.12.22 18:22:00 - [4] - Quote Jacques Cayton II wrote: So what your saying is you don't want an armor upgrade in the high slot. Say what 3/10 try harder EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5925	Posted - 2014.12.22 19:30:00 - [5] - Quote jace silencerww wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Jace I think adding resistance mods would natively require a rework the sentinel defenses again. Also you have to remember that the amarr rail resistance is on the shields, which means the amsent isn't as cut and dried as you might think. The Sentinel suits won't gain as much traction as one might think. The downside to resists is the fact that if you stack resists you sacrifice HP. This is a big deal. Stacking plates you can get away with buffer tanking. With resists you cannot get away with it as well. You become dependent upon reps. Further because as resists are no-drawback they need to provide less overall HP than plates. I'm on the fence about how to balance them against extenders because you can spike shield regen through the roof. For single-damage type hardeners it needs to cap at about 20% ish. Since three plates can almost double your EHP triple stacking hardeners should provide less benefit to raw EHP while providing solid protection vs. Specific damage. Remember plates protect against everything. But if you four-stack projectile resists to fight other sentinels you will be leaving yourself untanked vs. Rails AR and lasers. In short yer dead. understandable but armor resist will be high slots only and shield resist on low slots only so amarr heavy can still stack 4 plates and have 1 armor resist in his high slot however if he wanted to make his shields more resist he could due to shield resist are low slots. Oh dear Christ no. No no no no no. If they want to have resists they must sacrifice HP mods. putting armor resists in high and shield resists in low is the WORST way to balance the mods. Hands down, WORST. It needs to be madee so that if you fit a resist module you must sacrifice a slot reserved for HP or regen of your tank type. Otherwise you've just made sentinels even MORE disgustingly hard to kill and you give the assaults current sentinel level EHP. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5929	Posted - 2014.12.23 05:21:00 - [6] - Quote True Adamance wrote: ACT1ON BASTARD wrote: Protection from fotm sounds interesting. Say everyone switches to RR or something, just put on a rail resist. Really cool idea. It's not a Railgun Resistance Mod..... It's a Kinetic Resistance Amplifier/ Plating it's a railgun resistance mod. CCP didn't use the same damage profiles EVE does. quit trying to force EVE terminology that isn't being used. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5930	Posted - 2014.12.23 06:02:00 - [7] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: Let me just do a little bit of math to prove that even 15% of flat resistance would be pretty much useless on anything but Gallente and Amarr Sentinels. An Amarr Assault with 4 complex Armor Plates(already a shitfit, but I'm using an extreme example to get my point across), has about 990 Armor. A 15% omni resistance module would raise that HP to be effectively 1160. Only 22 more HP than just another Plate would add. About 170 HP... But let's think for a moment. That fit would have no repair modules, and would take almost 8 minutes to fully repair. Useless. So obviously, we are going to need to remove an armor plate or 2 to have a repairer or 2... Let's say we make room for 2 repairers. This will result in a much more effective repair rate. But it cuts our Armor HP down to 690. Now our Resistance module only adds 121 HP worth of resistance! Might as well just equip an Enhanced Armor Plate, which will add almost the exact same amount of HP, instead of wasting the PG/CPU to fit a Complex mod. TL;DR Even 15% of flat resistance would be pracically useless on all but Armor Heavies, and they don't really need a buff. where you say useless, I say "this has no meaningful penalties." adding the EHP of an enhanced plate isn't a downside. It also means each armor point counts for more, which means any fitted regen modules become comparatively much more efficient because they rep a higher percent of overall health per tick. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5931	Posted - 2014.12.23 06:46:00 - [8] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: Let me just do a little bit of math to prove that even 15% of flat resistance would be pretty much useless on anything but Gallente and Amarr Sentinels. An Amarr Assault with 4 complex Armor Plates(already a shitfit, but I'm using an extreme example to get my point across), has about 990 Armor. A 15% omni resistance module would raise that HP to be effectively 1160. Only 22 more HP than just another Plate would add. About 170 HP... But let's think for a moment. That fit would have no repair modules, and would take almost 8 minutes to fully repair. Useless. So obviously, we are going to need to remove an armor plate or 2 to have a repairer or 2... Let's say we make room for 2 repairers. This will result in a much more effective repair rate. But it cuts our Armor HP down to 690. Now our Resistance module only adds 121 HP worth of resistance! Might as well just equip an Enhanced Armor Plate, which will add almost the exact same amount of HP, instead of wasting the PG/CPU to fit a Complex mod. TL;DR Even 15% of flat resistance would be pracically useless on all but Armor Heavies, and they don't really need a buff. where you say useless, I say "this has no meaningful penalties." adding the EHP of an enhanced plate isn't a downside. It also means each armor point counts for more, which means any fitted regen modules become comparatively much more efficient because they rep a higher percent of overall health per tick. So you agree a Complex 15% Omni Resistance Mod (which is significantly more than anyone else would have suggested, really), is a little bit better than an Enhanced Armor Plate? That sounds balanced. A Complex mod should be a bit better than an enhanced one. I say 15% omni resistance is fine then! Just scale it down from there! Same scale as the Plates! An enhanced one would give 14%, and a basic one would give 11% The percentages will have to be completely redone for Sheilds... No they won't. Shields won't need to be retooled. Theres a reason resistance mods in EVE give identical resistance adds to shields and armor. It does actually balance out and would make shields strong as hell against armor cracking weapons. But shieldbusters will still rip them open. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5936	Posted - 2014.12.23 18:25:00 - [9] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: Although honestly, I don't even think there should be resistance modules. In EVE, you can tell if an enemy is using a fit that resists your weapons, and you have enough time to react to that by switching ammo types. This is part of the reason they work there. You just can't really do either in Dust. They would either be horribly underpowered, or overpowered. There really isn't an inbetween here because its a shooter, not a Spaceship MMO. really the only way to do it is omni resists in lieu of plates or extenders. they would allow players to build better recovery tank builds while not being mandatory to swap away from plate/extender builds. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.