DUST Search - an idea for resistance mods.

Breakin Stuff wrote:

Fizzer XCIV wrote:

Breakin Stuff wrote:

Fizzer XCIV wrote:

Let me just do a little bit of math to prove that even 15% of flat resistance would be pretty much useless on anything but Gallente and Amarr Sentinels.

An Amarr Assault with 4 complex Armor Plates(already a shitfit, but I'm using an extreme example to get my point across), has about 990 Armor. A 15% omni resistance module would raise that HP to be effectively 1160. Only 22 more HP than just another Plate would add. About 170 HP...

But let's think for a moment. That fit would have no repair modules, and would take almost 8 minutes to fully repair. Useless.
So obviously, we are going to need to remove an armor plate or 2 to have a repairer or 2...

Let's say we make room for 2 repairers. This will result in a much more effective repair rate.
But it cuts our Armor HP down to 690. Now our Resistance module only adds 121 HP worth of resistance!
Might as well just equip an Enhanced Armor Plate, which will add almost the exact same amount of HP, instead of wasting the PG/CPU to fit a Complex mod.

TL;DR Even 15% of flat resistance would be pracically useless on all but Armor Heavies, and they don't really need a buff.

where you say useless, I say "this has no meaningful penalties."

adding the EHP of an enhanced plate isn't a downside. It also means each armor point counts for more, which means any fitted regen modules become comparatively much more efficient because they rep a higher percent of overall health per tick.

So you agree a Complex 15% Omni Resistance Mod (which is significantly more than anyone else would have suggested, really), is a little bit better than an Enhanced Armor Plate?
That sounds balanced. A Complex mod should be a bit better than an enhanced one.

I say 15% omni resistance is fine then!
Just scale it down from there! Same scale as the Plates!
An enhanced one would give 14%, and a basic one would give 11%

The percentages will have to be completely redone for Sheilds...

No they won't. Shields won't need to be retooled. Theres a reason resistance mods in EVE give identical resistance adds to shields and armor. It does actually balance out and would make shields strong as hell against armor cracking weapons.

But shieldbusters will still rip them open.

Someone's gotta tell the stupids that their ideas are bad, and I guess it's my job...


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Fizzer XCIV Heaven's Lost Property Negative-Feedback 1471	Posted - 2014.12.21 18:39:00 - [1] - Quote Regnier Feros wrote: If the percentage is going to be 10-20% then you'll need a huge downside to it. Something like this : Complex projectile resistance mod resist projectile weapons by 20% increase damage taken by explosive weapons by 20% I wouldn't even entertain the idea of using one. That would be an utterly trash deal to take in a PVP setting. Completely useless module. I could understand if the game had predictable PVE enemies, but the weapons your PVP enemies use are for all intents and purposes, random. And having a resistance fit set up for every situation would just be impractical. Why would I use that module, when I could just equip a Normal HP mod that would increase my HP by 15-20% with much less crippling drawbacks? Someone's gotta tell the stupids that their ideas are bad, and I guess it's my job...
Fizzer XCIV Heaven's Lost Property Negative-Feedback 1471	Posted - 2014.12.21 18:48:00 - [2] - Quote Doshneil Antaro wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: Regnier Feros wrote: If the percentage is going to be 10-20% then you'll need a huge downside to it. Something like this : Complex projectile resistance mod resist projectile weapons by 20% increase damage taken by explosive weapons by 20% I wouldn't even entertain the idea of using one. That would be an utterly trash deal to take in a PVP setting. Completely useless module. I could understand if the game had predictable PVE enemies, but the weapons your PVP enemies use are for all intents and purposes, random. And having a resistance fit set up for every situation would just be impractical. Why would I use that module, when I could just equip a Normal HP mod that would increase my HP by 15-20% with much less crippling drawbacks? Because heavies would benefit greatly from this. No need to stack armor that reduces strafe when you could add resistance. Alright. You know what? Add these modules CCP! Just as the people in this thread has described them! Its quite obvious that everyone but me would use them, so I just want to reap the rewards and get all the easy kills. Someone's gotta tell the stupids that their ideas are bad, and I guess it's my job...
Fizzer XCIV Heaven's Lost Property Negative-Feedback 1472	Posted - 2014.12.21 18:55:00 - [3] - Quote I mean... How can you guys seriously think the idea of a module where the penalties heavily outweigh the advantages would make a good module? There would be more reasons not to use it than to use it! Pros: +20% resists Cons: -20% resists Uses slot Uses PG/CPU Costs ISK You might as well be equipping a module that does absolutely nothing, because you would be better off using that! Jesus, some of the people in these forums have absolutely no sense for balance. At all... Someone's gotta tell the stupids that their ideas are bad, and I guess it's my job...
Fizzer XCIV Heaven's Lost Property Negative-Feedback 1496	Posted - 2014.12.23 05:36:00 - [4] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: True Adamance wrote: ACT1ON BASTARD wrote: Protection from fotm sounds interesting. Say everyone switches to RR or something, just put on a rail resist. Really cool idea. It's not a Railgun Resistance Mod..... It's a Kinetic Resistance Amplifier/ Plating it's a railgun resistance mod. CCP didn't use the same damage profiles EVE does. quit trying to force EVE terminology that isn't being used. Thank you for saying it! I can't stand True when he does that ****. Things that work well in EVE, like resistance modules, just won't work in Dust. Let me ask all you "Dust should be just like EVE" guys out there something. Would you even entertain the idea of equipping resistance modules if you knew you were going to be in a 16v16 battle where the enemy is using a practically random assortment of weapons? What if the alternative (standard HP mods) gave as much relative HP as they do in Dust, where a single plate can boost HP by up to 50%? Someone's gotta tell the stupids that their ideas are bad, and I guess it's my job...
Fizzer XCIV Heaven's Lost Property Negative-Feedback 1497	Posted - 2014.12.23 05:58:00 - [5] - Quote Let me just do a little bit of math to prove that even 15% of flat resistance would be pretty much useless on anything but Gallente and Amarr Sentinels. An Amarr Assault with 4 complex Armor Plates(already a shitfit, but I'm using an extreme example to get my point across), has about 990 Armor. A 15% omni resistance module would raise that HP to be effectively 1160. Only 22 more HP than just another Plate would add. About 170 HP... But let's think for a moment. That fit would have no repair modules, and would take almost 8 minutes to fully repair. Useless. So obviously, we are going to need to remove an armor plate or 2 to have a repairer or 2... Let's say we make room for 2 repairers. This will result in a much more effective repair rate. But it cuts our Armor HP down to 690. Now our Resistance module only adds 121 HP worth of resistance! Might as well just equip an Enhanced Armor Plate, which will add almost the exact same amount of HP, instead of wasting the PG/CPU to fit a Complex mod. TL;DR Even 15% of flat resistance would be pracically useless on all but Armor Heavies, and they don't really need a buff. Someone's gotta tell the stupids that their ideas are bad, and I guess it's my job...
Fizzer XCIV Heaven's Lost Property Negative-Feedback 1497	Posted - 2014.12.23 06:26:00 - [6] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: Let me just do a little bit of math to prove that even 15% of flat resistance would be pretty much useless on anything but Gallente and Amarr Sentinels. An Amarr Assault with 4 complex Armor Plates(already a shitfit, but I'm using an extreme example to get my point across), has about 990 Armor. A 15% omni resistance module would raise that HP to be effectively 1160. Only 22 more HP than just another Plate would add. About 170 HP... But let's think for a moment. That fit would have no repair modules, and would take almost 8 minutes to fully repair. Useless. So obviously, we are going to need to remove an armor plate or 2 to have a repairer or 2... Let's say we make room for 2 repairers. This will result in a much more effective repair rate. But it cuts our Armor HP down to 690. Now our Resistance module only adds 121 HP worth of resistance! Might as well just equip an Enhanced Armor Plate, which will add almost the exact same amount of HP, instead of wasting the PG/CPU to fit a Complex mod. TL;DR Even 15% of flat resistance would be pracically useless on all but Armor Heavies, and they don't really need a buff. where you say useless, I say "this has no meaningful penalties." adding the EHP of an enhanced plate isn't a downside. It also means each armor point counts for more, which means any fitted regen modules become comparatively much more efficient because they rep a higher percent of overall health per tick. So you agree a Complex 15% Omni Resistance Mod (which is significantly more than anyone else would have suggested, really), is a little bit better than an Enhanced Armor Plate? That sounds balanced. A Complex mod should be a bit better than an enhanced one. I say 15% omni resistance is fine then! Just scale it down from there! Same scale as the Plates! An enhanced one would give 14%, and a basic one would give 11% The percentages will have to be completely redone for Sheilds... Someone's gotta tell the stupids that their ideas are bad, and I guess it's my job...
Fizzer XCIV Heaven's Lost Property Negative-Feedback 1497	Posted - 2014.12.23 07:27:00 - [7] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: Let me just do a little bit of math to prove that even 15% of flat resistance would be pretty much useless on anything but Gallente and Amarr Sentinels. An Amarr Assault with 4 complex Armor Plates(already a shitfit, but I'm using an extreme example to get my point across), has about 990 Armor. A 15% omni resistance module would raise that HP to be effectively 1160. Only 22 more HP than just another Plate would add. About 170 HP... But let's think for a moment. That fit would have no repair modules, and would take almost 8 minutes to fully repair. Useless. So obviously, we are going to need to remove an armor plate or 2 to have a repairer or 2... Let's say we make room for 2 repairers. This will result in a much more effective repair rate. But it cuts our Armor HP down to 690. Now our Resistance module only adds 121 HP worth of resistance! Might as well just equip an Enhanced Armor Plate, which will add almost the exact same amount of HP, instead of wasting the PG/CPU to fit a Complex mod. TL;DR Even 15% of flat resistance would be pracically useless on all but Armor Heavies, and they don't really need a buff. where you say useless, I say "this has no meaningful penalties." adding the EHP of an enhanced plate isn't a downside. It also means each armor point counts for more, which means any fitted regen modules become comparatively much more efficient because they rep a higher percent of overall health per tick. So you agree a Complex 15% Omni Resistance Mod (which is significantly more than anyone else would have suggested, really), is a little bit better than an Enhanced Armor Plate? That sounds balanced. A Complex mod should be a bit better than an enhanced one. I say 15% omni resistance is fine then! Just scale it down from there! Same scale as the Plates! An enhanced one would give 14%, and a basic one would give 11% The percentages will have to be completely redone for Sheilds... No they won't. Shields won't need to be retooled. Theres a reason resistance mods in EVE give identical resistance adds to shields and armor. It does actually balance out and would make shields strong as hell against armor cracking weapons. But shieldbusters will still rip them open. 15% resists would actually end up being a lot more effective on shields. A lot. On a Calassault with 4 Complex Extenders, a 15% Resistance mod would actually provide 107.5 HP worth of HP, which is 148.1% more efficient than a Complex extender, with none of the drawbacks. They would have to be reworked here since Shields and Armor work differently than they do in EVE. Someone's gotta tell the stupids that their ideas are bad, and I guess it's my job...
Fizzer XCIV Heaven's Lost Property Negative-Feedback 1498	Posted - 2014.12.23 07:53:00 - [8] - Quote All right, I did some math. Let's say we continue the same trend we did with the Armor ones, where a Complex Resistance mod is only a little better than a Complex HP mod when you already have 4 of the HP mods on the corresponding Assault suit, Cal assault in this case. So, a Calassault with 4 Complex extenders has 609 HP. Another Extender will bump it to 681. Thats the equivalent of taking 10.5% less damage. With that in mind, I say a Complex Shield Resistance Mod should block 11% of all damage. Let's just follow the same ratios that Extenders do, just like we did. In the end, we get: Complex Shield Resistance mod: 11% Enhanced Shield Resistance mod: 9% Basic Shield Resistance mod: 6% Complex Armor Resistance mod: 15% Enhanced Armor Resistance mod: 12% Basic Armor Reistance mod: 9% Someone's gotta tell the stupids that their ideas are bad, and I guess it's my job...
Fizzer XCIV Heaven's Lost Property Negative-Feedback 1498	Posted - 2014.12.23 08:00:00 - [9] - Quote Although honestly, I don't even think there should be resistance modules. In EVE, you can tell if an enemy is using a fit that resists your weapons, and you have enough time to react to that by switching ammo types. This is part of the reason they work there. You just can't really do either in Dust. They would either be horribly underpowered, or overpowered. There really isn't an inbetween here because its a shooter, not a Spaceship MMO. Someone's gotta tell the stupids that their ideas are bad, and I guess it's my job...