Mouse and Keyboard Control needs to be Priority ONE
I realize this post may "troll" dedicated console fps players. That's not my intention. I would however challenge you to play a few games of pc counterstrike and then see if you see ANYONE in Dust514 right now exhibiting the skills of even mid-score counterstrike mouse players.

The bigger issue with mouse\kb vs controller is how the two will interact with each other. I think it's a mistake personally, i think a lot of ps3 players who walk into this game with a controller are going to get torn to shreds by mouse\kb people. FPS give veterans an innate advantage just by being familiar with the game, adding an element of mouse\kb vs controller is only going to further widen that gap, of which the only way to close is to go out and get a mouse\kb yourself. I think most people will just move on to the next game. I don't think there is much question as which is better and more desirable, it's an issue of level playing field.

The bigger issue with mouse\kb vs controller is how the two will interact with each other. I think it's a mistake personally, i think a lot of ps3 players who walk into this game with a controller are going to get torn to shreds by mouse\kb people. FPS give veterans an innate advantage just by being familiar with the game, adding an element of mouse\kb vs controller is only going to further widen that gap, of which the only way to close is to go out and get a mouse\kb yourself. I think most people will just move on to the next game. I don't think there is much question as which is better and more desirable, it's an issue of level playing field.

I'm with you on this one, but CCP keeps saying that they're focusing on making the KB/M not give much of an advantage to its users against the controller. I wonder how they'll do that tho.

I agree with you and I left this part unspoken.

However I think to some extent this will be OK because mouse and keyboard players will simply be in the top clans fighting in Nullsec and Lowsec.

There should be plenty of room for controller players in the Highsec pickup matches like we are fight in now.

Any of the more serious fights will be all mouse/key though.

I think CCP should figure out how to message the "upgrade" path perhaps by actually suggesting a mouse/keyboard purchase along with the Aurum.

As long as people understand WHY they are getting schooled and have a cheap path to get caught up I think it will be ok. To some extent it will just be the experienced Merc corps telling their members "you are bad, get a mouse".

The bigger issue with mouse\kb vs controller is how the two will interact with each other. I think it's a mistake personally, i think a lot of ps3 players who walk into this game with a controller are going to get torn to shreds by mouse\kb people. FPS give veterans an innate advantage just by being familiar with the game, adding an element of mouse\kb vs controller is only going to further widen that gap, of which the only way to close is to go out and get a mouse\kb yourself. I think most people will just move on to the next game. I don't think there is much question as which is better and more desirable, it's an issue of level playing field.

I'm not against PC people, or the KB/M, I'm originally a PC guy, and planning to use the KB/M for Dust 514. But I like to state the facts, this is a CONSOLE game, with the majority of its players going to be console FPS players.

snip

The IMPORTANT matches will be all mouse and keyboard. Who cares about the thousands of players STUCK in Highsec/Lowsec because they are on controllers? They will be wondering why they aren't doing well however...

Mouse and Keyboard Control needs to be Priority ONE

1 - Game balance at this stage is MEANINGLESS without having mouse/key players in the game right now. You cannot figure out whether a heavy/assault/covops is balanced against anything else until you have experienced PC fps players with good shot control, on mouses, in this game.

When mouse players come online it will change everything.

2 - It will take time to work through the bugs and issues with mouse and keyboard. LET'S GET STARTED NOW.

3 - It's really impossible to judge the fluidity/lag/framerate issues without a mouse control. The controller is so bad (in general) that it's not clear whats just the bad controls and what's down to that CRITICAL part of FPS games "feel".

4 - CCP has been warned repeatedly about mixing mouse and controller players. I applaud you for doing it HOWEVER it is a serious STRATEGIC error to not be testing this already. It's an unspoken cornerstone to the entire game and you haven't begun to address it.

5 - Mouse control may challenge your fundamental assumptions about your main loop, update cycles etc etc etc. This game isn't in BETA it's in early ALPHA until you get mouse control in.

I realize this post may "troll" dedicated console fps players. That's not my intention. I would however challenge you to play a few games of pc counterstrike and then see if you see ANYONE in Dust514 right now exhibiting the skills of even mid-score counterstrike mouse players.


Again "When mouse players come online it will change everything."

This is a big deal that it isn't here yet.

FWIW the rest of the game seems pretty promising.

I guess I am not going to be in those "IMPORTANT" matches, huh? Too bad I will not be doing well just because I prefer a controller over another input type thanks for pointing out that all my experience will count for nothing against people using a different input.

However I think to some extent this will be OK because mouse and keyboard players will simply be in the top clans fighting in Nullsec and Lowsec.

There should be plenty of room for controller players in the Highsec pickup matches like we are fight in now.

Any of the more serious fights will be all mouse/key though.

To some extent it will just be the experienced Merc corps telling their members "you are bad, get a mouse".

This post is about what we'll see over time over a broad range of players. The vast majority of which will automatically rank higher just based on using mouse vs keyboard.

Setup should not allow a certain input to have aspects of the game which are supposed to be skilled up (Sway/dispersion) to be manipulated.

With all due respect, I personally will be able to hunt every KB/M user who thinks they are better just because they are accustomed to only that. Also experience > input device



I guess I am not going to be in those "IMPORTANT" matches, huh? Too bad I will not be doing well just because I prefer a controller over another input type thanks for pointing out that all my experience will count for nothing against people using a different input. Ignorance is bliss when stating statistics of the future and how things should be .

Well, there definitely needs to be a test so people can compare M/KB vs. Controller. If it allows too much of an advantage, I say scrap it. After all, there is a reason the word 'practice' exists. If you're not good at using the controller, practice, that's what I had to do when I played a PC FPS for the first time and sucked at using a mouse, it works both ways.

EDIT: As for what should be priority one, fix the lag first, it doesn't make much difference what control system you're using if your bullets don't hit your target (hit detection, etc.).

Well, i would hope that KB/M would be something for the future, but there are stuff that need more priority if you ask me. I think I would suck just the same!

Peopel has played FPSes without KB/M since... well since FPSes started...

/Kendran

If you're not good at using a mouse, practice. It cuts both ways. The only fair way is to allow both. In competitions they've shown that the difference only really comes out in equally skilled players. If the mouse user was better anyway, he'll usually win. if the controller user was better anyway, he'll usually win.

Better controls won't help you if you suck anyway.

True, but that's why I said there has to be a test to make sure one control system isn't better than another in Dust 514, besides, it wouldn't exactly be fair if people who don't have a PS3 compatible mouse/keyboard have to go out and buy them just to stand a chance.

Wolf3d, Doom, Doom 2, Heretic, and i THINK Hexen. That's the list of major FPS games that didn't support a mouse.

Huh, there was a mouse I had a while back that I simply couldn't get to work with my ps3. Still, it's a bit of a PITA to unplug the mouse/keyboard from your PC and then plug them into your ps3 and vice versa, and there's still a good chance people will have to buy a USB hub at least (Mouse + Keyboard + Headset = 3 USB ports, unless the headset is wireless, etc.) Maybe I'm worrying too much about it, I just don't think mouse/keyboard support is 'needed', though if it brings in more players without unbalancing the game, why not.