All of them had mouse support, and all of them played better with one. Playing Doom without a mouse was horrid.

And anyway, the OP's point is being a bit misinterpreted, I feel.

If they intend to support KB&M and Move, they need to start testing it ASAP, because it's going to be a ***** to balance all three controller types GÇö it's not something they want to leave for later. The impact this can have on how skills are used, on what equipment is valuable and useful is pretty significant (not to mention the whole GÇ£get X or get lostGÇ¥ angle, which can make the different between the game dying horribly and being prosperous).

It's not a matter of which is better or which more people will use GÇö it's a matter of making sure they will not break the game.

Huh, there was a mouse I had a while back that I simply couldn't get to work with my ps3. Still, it's a bit of a PITA to unplug the mouse/keyboard from your PC and then plug them into your ps3 and vice versa, and there's still a good chance people will have to buy a USB hub at least (Mouse + Keyboard + Headset = 3 USB ports, unless the headset is wireless, etc.) Maybe I'm worrying too much about it, I just don't think mouse/keyboard support is 'needed', though if it brings in more players without unbalancing the game, why not.

Setup should not allow a certain input to have aspects of the game which are supposed to be skilled up (Sway/dispersion) to be manipulated.

With all due respect, I personally will be able to hunt every KB/M user who thinks they are better just because they are accustomed to only that. Also experience > input device



I guess I am not going to be in those "IMPORTANT" matches, huh? Too bad I will not be doing well just because I prefer a controller over another input type thanks for pointing out that all my experience will count for nothing against people using a different input. Ignorance is bliss when stating statistics of the future and how things should be .

I'm not sure what you are even arguing about.

The IMPORTANT matches will be all mouse and keyboard. Who cares about the thousands of players STUCK in Highsec/Lowsec because they are on controllers? They will be wondering why they aren't doing well however...

Actually, the originals of those I listed did NOT have mouse support. I believe they MAY have added mouse support in the Doom95 CD re-release, but the original games did not support mice (hell, I'm not even sure there were standard drivers in DOS for mice at that point, but it's been a long time lol).

Worth noting that Wolf3d and the original Doom didn't even have vertical space, and that Doom 2, Heretic, Hexen, and Duke Nukem 3d had vertical auto-aim (i.e. if you had the horizontal direction correct for the target, the bullets automagically went in the correct vertical direction.)

As to the OP's point, I don't think it's so much being misunderstood as people are simply ignoring it because they're terrified of having to compete against mice (i've seen it for years now.) They don't care about mice, therefor the feature doesn't deserve any attention at all, and many of that sort actively oppose the inclusion of such things

It would be an awful decision to listen to a group of beta testers picked almost exclusively from a PC game's community on something that carries such an obvious bias.

A lot of people here want Kb/m, and a lot of people are willing to put the investment into buying extra equipment, setting up their ps3 at their PC desk, maybe even buying another monitor. I know a lot of people who've bought a ps3 JUST for this beta. These are all people who've already heavily invested in the EVE franchise. These are incidentally the exact people that DUST 514 isn't supposed to be targeting.

"I want kb/m because I can't use a controller but I still want to be an uber elite nullsec merc badass who incidentally will be above anyone who uses a controller by virtue of the interface" Just doesn't work, it's not fair and especially not when this is supposed to be an introduction to the EVE universe to a broader audience. If you want to be super hardxcore, learn how to use a controller, Afterall isn't that what skill is?

The way I see things is that we've been invited to this closed Beta because CCP is kind enough to show their fans what's going on. We are in no way representative of the overall target demographic and we should be mindful of that when calling for things that could irreperably damage the game. I said this before in the other thread, CCP needs to wait until the game has been released and the community has settled before commiting to something like this.

"""@EONmagazine and those asking for an "official statement": DUST 514 *will* support keyboard and mouse on PS3
GÇö Brandon Laurino (@CCP_Jian) February 7, 2012"""

The way I see things is that we've been invited to this closed Beta because CCP is kind enough to show their fans what's going on. We are in no way representative of the overall target demographic and we should be mindful of that when calling for things that could irreperably damage the game. I said this before in the other thread, CCP needs to wait until the game has been released and the community has settled before commiting to something like this.

"""@EONmagazine and those asking for an "official statement": DUST 514 *will* support keyboard and mouse on PS3
GÇö Brandon Laurino (@CCP_Jian) February 7, 2012"""

I agree with you and I left this part unspoken.

However I think to some extent this will be OK because mouse and keyboard players will simply be in the top clans fighting in Nullsec and Lowsec.

There should be plenty of room for controller players in the Highsec pickup matches like we are fight in now.

Any of the more serious fights will be all mouse/key though.

I think CCP should figure out how to message the "upgrade" path perhaps by actually suggesting a mouse/keyboard purchase along with the Aurum.

As long as people understand WHY they are getting schooled and have a cheap path to get caught up I think it will be ok. To some extent it will just be the experienced Merc corps telling their members "you are bad, get a mouse".

So I gather, and it's going to be interesting to see whether they go forward with it.

There's a real risk of pandering so much to the established EVE community (like everyone here) that anyone who is unwilling to invest in the "startup costs" will be essentially left in the dust (no pun intended). Console FPS gamers have a bunch of better known games with larger communities (and arguably better gameplay) which they know all their friends will be playing and that also doesn't slap them with an automatic disadvantage because they have the audacity to use the standard controller for their system (not to mention all the other disadvantages like going against vets and the skillpoint barrier).

Sure you can could that it might get balanced, but do you really want to use a kb/m with comparable controls to a controller? I'd imagine that it would be infuriating (and rightfully so too). I don't see any scenario where they'll be balanced, and in a game that is supposedly going to be at it's very core, highly competitive, that's kind of a big issue.

Remove auto-aim assist for mouse users and I think all these problems go away...

Hard limits on aim speed and turn speed mean mouse has no advantage over controllers, only player aptitude with their input method of choice. I've said it before in this thread and I'm saying it again to make sure people see it. There will not be a massive difference in 'precision control' from using a mouse unless you've never used a controller before and you've been a PC FPS fan all your life.

I agree that it should get in sooner than later, but it is by far a top priority for them to add asap.

lol
ahhh the good ole PC elitist
challenge accepted
that is all.
/thread

Wow, just wow.

1) The EVE community is the one that's going to keep this game going once the next cookie-cutter comes out

2) Console gamers have a bunch of better known games? Seriously? Let me see, there's Halo (arguably the worst example of FPS gaming in recent years), there's Resistance (surprisingly good, and an interesting story), and there's.... ummm..... exactly. The rest are on all platforms. Meanwhile the PC had the majority of your big namers in the past, and had them well before consoles, and continues to get nearly all the big namers though it's no longer the only one to have them.

3) You're really going to bring in the "skillpoint barrier" strawman? Seriously? Come back to this one when you actually understand the nuances of how the skill systems here and in EVE work.

As to the core issue, balancing controls, they can be (and should be) adjusted so that a mouse won't let you "cheat" the intended maximum turn speeds. That said, it won't affect the innate advantages, namely better speed and precision. These advantages are related to the control interface itself and how we interact with it, not settings.


They certainly better remove auto-aim, no mouse user wants the computer actively messing up their shots by taking over their crosshairs, that's there to help nubs using inferior controls (read: controllers) actually hit something in the first place.

Mouse and Keyboard Control needs to be Priority ONE

1 - Game balance at this stage is MEANINGLESS without having mouse/key players in the game right now. You cannot figure out whether a heavy/assault/covops is balanced against anything else until you have experienced PC fps players with good shot control, on mouses, in this game.

When mouse players come online it will change everything.

2 - It will take time to work through the bugs and issues with mouse and keyboard. LET'S GET STARTED NOW.

3 - It's really impossible to judge the fluidity/lag/framerate issues without a mouse control. The controller is so bad (in general) that it's not clear whats just the bad controls and what's down to that CRITICAL part of FPS games "feel".

4 - CCP has been warned repeatedly about mixing mouse and controller players. I applaud you for doing it HOWEVER it is a serious STRATEGIC error to not be testing this already. It's an unspoken cornerstone to the entire game and you haven't begun to address it.

5 - Mouse control may challenge your fundamental assumptions about your main loop, update cycles etc etc etc. This game isn't in BETA it's in early ALPHA until you get mouse control in.

I realize this post may "troll" dedicated console fps players. That's not my intention. I would however challenge you to play a few games of pc counterstrike and then see if you see ANYONE in Dust514 right now exhibiting the skills of even mid-score counterstrike mouse players.


Again "When mouse players come online it will change everything."

This is a big deal that it isn't here yet.

FWIW the rest of the game seems pretty promising.

They certainly better remove auto-aim, no mouse user wants the computer actively messing up their shots by taking over their crosshairs, that's there to help nubs using inferior controls (read: controllers) actually hit something in the first place.

Get down your high horse.... Unbelievable....
I just HATE that PC elitism that has absolutely NO good reason to exist. Without Consoles, gaming would still be marginal...

Still, i too would very much rather play with KB\M as i played CS for a decade, but i also got used to controllers when it was needed. You're an EVE player ? I thought the learning cliff would have gotten you prepared for anything.... And you're shaking in front of a tiny controller.

In the end, the way you're asking KB\M to be #1 priority is, to me, talks of a whiner who can get to frag with something else and is purely raging.

On a difftent note: People saying that kb/m will break the game for Joe sixpack because he will not be able to compete, seem to think that dust is a game for the average PS player.

It is not.

Just look at the market. the skill tree, the whole menu and all the stuff that's in there. Dust will be exactly the same type of niche game as eve. And that is a good thing because the world simply does not need another dumbed down time waster for the masses.

My primary worry is that KB/M support will be implemented as a tacked-on feature that will hamper gameplay. For instance being able to map all of the buttons on a modern gaming mouse, and reasonable sensitivity adjustments.

More food for thought

- Unreal Tournament 3 on the PS3 already supports keyboard and mouse (don't fear, I hear the extra mouse buttons don't work)
- DUST 514 runs on the Unreal engine

coincidence? doubt it