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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
3203
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Posted - 2014.12.19 21:53:00 -
[1] - Quote
Weapons that do more damage to the weaker tank (shield) have higher DPS than weapons that do damage to the stronger tank (armor)....
And then CCP says:
"LETS BUFF ANTI SHIELD WEAPONS!!!!"
"Yeah, skilled players relying on suits that have slightly more regen at the cost of much less HP are killing pub scrubs. Something needs to be done."
"MAKE ONLY SCRUBS VIABLE!!!!!"
"...Sure..."
edit: this doesn't include the HMG, which isn't even an anti armor/shield weapon--its more of a "I see yo..oh sorry, you're dead" weapon.
"Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms.
FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ
I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.
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Powerh8er
The Rainbow Effect
583
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Posted - 2014.12.19 22:46:00 -
[2] - Quote
"Runs a scout twenty four seven constantly ganking people by shooting them in the back with ohk weapons, calls everyone else a scrub." |
Bam Nutshot
Kaalmayoti Warzone Control
50
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Posted - 2014.12.19 22:48:00 -
[3] - Quote
My Assault railrifle still kicks ass so i don't care...Cal assault is awesome!!
For the State!
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gustavo acosta
Capital Acquisitions LLC
General Tso's Alliance
603
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Posted - 2014.12.20 00:17:00 -
[4] - Quote
The reason why shield based weaponry does so much damage is because armor type weaponry does relatively little to shields.
Do you know how to fit a shield suit?
GimmeDatSuhWeet isk
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gustavo acosta
Capital Acquisitions LLC
General Tso's Alliance
603
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Posted - 2014.12.20 00:29:00 -
[5] - Quote
Powerh8er wrote:>Runs a scout twenty four seven
>constantly ganking people by shooting them in the back with ohk weapons
>calls everyone else a scrub
FTFY
GimmeDatSuhWeet isk
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THE-PIMP-NAMED-SLICKBACK
Direct Action Resources
271
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Posted - 2014.12.20 01:23:00 -
[6] - Quote
gustavo acosta wrote:The reason why shield based weaponry does so much damage is because armor type weaponry does relatively little to shields.
Do you know how to fit a shield suit?
Did you get that backwards or are you just high as ****? The scrambler rifle exists and a milita can drop a proto cal assault in under two seconds if they know what they're doing. Oddly enough it'll take 50-75% of my arr clip to kill an apex amarr assault.
The mysteties of this game eh? 
The One And Only
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gustavo acosta
Capital Acquisitions LLC
General Tso's Alliance
605
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Posted - 2014.12.20 01:45:00 -
[7] - Quote
THE-PIMP-NAMED-SLICKBACK wrote:gustavo acosta wrote:The reason why shield based weaponry does so much damage is because armor type weaponry does relatively little to shields.
Do you know how to fit a shield suit? Did you get that backwards or are you just high as ****? The scrambler rifle exists and a milita can drop a proto cal assault in under two seconds if they know what they're doing. Oddly enough it'll take 50-75% of my arr clip to kill an apex amarr assault. The mysteties of this game eh?
My militia AR takes out proto like butter too, armor and shields, what's your point?
You might just have bad aim, bad fits, bad strafe, bad situational awareness. I don't know what you have, but from what I've experienced that -15% to shields really saves my min scout from getting instagibbed from hmgs, and my -20% on my gal assault really stops those scrambler riflers in their tracks, as long as I avoid armor based weapons on my gal assault I have an easy time taking everything else out.
GimmeDatSuhWeet isk
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THE-PIMP-NAMED-SLICKBACK
Direct Action Resources
271
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Posted - 2014.12.20 02:24:00 -
[8] - Quote
gustavo acosta wrote:THE-PIMP-NAMED-SLICKBACK wrote:gustavo acosta wrote:The reason why shield based weaponry does so much damage is because armor type weaponry does relatively little to shields.
Do you know how to fit a shield suit? Did you get that backwards or are you just high as ****? The scrambler rifle exists and a milita can drop a proto cal assault in under two seconds if they know what they're doing. Oddly enough it'll take 50-75% of my arr clip to kill an apex amarr assault. The mysteties of this game eh? My militia AR takes out proto like butter too, armor and shields, what's your point? You might just have bad aim, bad fits, bad strafe, bad situational awareness. I don't know what you have, but from what I've experienced that -15% to shields really saves my min scout from getting instagibbed from hmgs, and my -20% on my gal assault really stops those scrambler riflers in their tracks, as long as I avoid armor based weapons on my gal assault I have an easy time taking everything else out.
My fits are about as effective as a regen tank caldari assault can get. My aim well enough to actively maintain a 3.0 kdr while running apex cal assaults/logis. Doesn't mean much when all shield based weapons are geared towards high alpha, and maintain a relatively high rof. Playing with a controller over a mouse pad I don't have the same strafing advantages but circling the analog stick is sufficient. The imbalance is obvious between the two tanking methods.
The One And Only
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gustavo acosta
Capital Acquisitions LLC
General Tso's Alliance
605
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Posted - 2014.12.20 02:26:00 -
[9] - Quote
THE-PIMP-NAMED-SLICKBACK wrote:The imbalance is obvious between the two tanking methods.
You're right shield suits are too effective at armor tanking, they need a nerf IMO.
GimmeDatSuhWeet isk
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THE-PIMP-NAMED-SLICKBACK
Direct Action Resources
271
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Posted - 2014.12.20 02:37:00 -
[10] - Quote
gustavo acosta wrote:THE-PIMP-NAMED-SLICKBACK wrote:The imbalance is obvious between the two tanking methods. You're right shield suits are too effective at armor tanking, they need a nerf IMO.
Lol.
Might as well nerf them scouts while we're at it. 50% strafe speed reduction per armor/shield equipped.
That'll teach them to stop strafin.
The One And Only
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gustavo acosta
Capital Acquisitions LLC
General Tso's Alliance
606
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Posted - 2014.12.20 05:44:00 -
[11] - Quote
THE-PIMP-NAMED-SLICKBACK wrote:gustavo acosta wrote:THE-PIMP-NAMED-SLICKBACK wrote:The imbalance is obvious between the two tanking methods. You're right shield suits are too effective at armor tanking, they need a nerf IMO. Lol. Might as well nerf them scouts while we're at it. 50% strafe speed reduction per armor/shield equipped. That'll teach them to stop strafin.
Shield suits aren't supposed to armor tank properly genius. It's more like letting scouts run around with HMGs.
GimmeDatSuhWeet isk
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
3211
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Posted - 2014.12.20 07:21:00 -
[12] - Quote
Powerh8er wrote:"Runs a scout twenty four seven constantly ganking people by shooting them in the back with ohk weapons, calls everyone else a scrub."
Actually, I run an assault now.
Scouts suck because CCP decided that alpha weapons were too good, so they gave everyone entitlement HP.
But this coming from a guy complaining about heavies being underpowered, yeah Im sure you're real good....scrub.
"Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms.
FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ
I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.
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Zeke Dunevent
0uter.Heaven
22
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Posted - 2014.12.20 09:17:00 -
[13] - Quote
I feel like we should turn this into a "scrambler rifle is OP thread." Yes ARs did just receive buffs, but they are just now universally useable, whereas before only the breach was good. However to say that armor weapons are not as good against armor as shield weapons are against shields is not universally true. The Rail or Combat rifle goes through armor more easily than ARs go through shields, I have prof. 5 in all three of those rifle types, but I only have adv scramblers and yet they feel like they cut shields even more quickly than my prof. 5 ARs. I understand feeling sad that shield weapons are getting stronger, when shield suits are the weaker of the two kinds, but lets not point the finger at the recently buffed ARs (my babies), which are just now getting to where they are effective enough to be feasibly used when set next to the other three rifles, when the elephant in the room is still the scrambler. I have said many times that nothing in the game kills armor as quickly as the scrambler kills shields, whether or not that is the intention is unknown to me, but the ARs are in a good place now and should be left alone for a while, whilst the scrambler should be reexamined as it is still the most OP amongst the rifles.
I think I know a lot.
I can run just about anything.
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Lynn Beck
Delta Vanguard 6
2330
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Posted - 2014.12.20 09:51:00 -
[14] - Quote
What he means is, anti-shield based weaponry has higher DPS than any comparable Anti-Armor weapon.
CR is comparable to Burst AR- loses in DPS and damage a clip, and now, even in psuedo full auto.
RR is utter crap(But oddly, the ARR can instantly deal 2x my health in damage on the death screen before i can overheat a SCR.)
Scr has quite possibly the highest alpha strike in the game, aside from Shotguns and Charged headshots(Alpha being a Charge and a followup or 3, as you can pull that off within .025 seconds) Along with 2nd highest range amongst rifles, AND has maybe the 3rd highest DPS in the entire game.
CR...fails horribly against caldari sentinels, and gallente logis with ARRs, screw having that +40% to armor, i'm still going to die horribly because the ARR can instagank me in CQC.
AR... Is actually in a good place, it's just the WTF tier DPS of hte Breach and(to a MUCH lesser extent) the burst. Actually i'm a little confused as to why the Burst has a 70 shot clip but fires 3 round bursts, and is supposed to follow the CR in terms of higher-ish DPS and lower damage a clip.
General John Ripper
-BAM! I'm Emeril Lagasse.
This message was approved by the 'Nobody Loved You' Foundation'
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THE-PIMP-NAMED-SLICKBACK
Direct Action Resources
273
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Posted - 2014.12.20 10:09:00 -
[15] - Quote
gustavo acosta wrote:THE-PIMP-NAMED-SLICKBACK wrote:gustavo acosta wrote:THE-PIMP-NAMED-SLICKBACK wrote:The imbalance is obvious between the two tanking methods. You're right shield suits are too effective at armor tanking, they need a nerf IMO. Lol. Might as well nerf them scouts while we're at it. 50% strafe speed reduction per armor/shield equipped. That'll teach them to stop strafin. Shield suits aren't supposed to armor tank properly genius. It's more like letting scouts run around with HMGs.
I never said they were, just spitting out my own foolish statement along with yours. Dual tanked caldaris are easy kills, garbage regin, garbage movement speed, garbage armor rep with moderate armor. Nerfing them at the moment would require a pg reduction which we currently need in order to run complex shield mods.
A gallente assault can stack shield mods over damage and gain relatively high shields. Fairly effective considering that still have their armor/rep amount on top of their say 350 shield buffer. I would be looking at that before nerfing the cal assault, all brick tanking does is dig your own grave in those suits anyway.
The One And Only
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THE-PIMP-NAMED-SLICKBACK
Direct Action Resources
273
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Posted - 2014.12.20 10:28:00 -
[16] - Quote
Lynn Beck wrote:What he means is, anti-shield based weaponry has higher DPS than any comparable Anti-Armor weapon.
CR is comparable to Burst AR- loses in DPS and damage a clip, and now, even in psuedo full auto.
RR is utter crap(But oddly, the ARR can instantly deal 2x my health in damage on the death screen before i can overheat a SCR.)
Scr has quite possibly the highest alpha strike in the game, aside from Shotguns and Charged headshots(Alpha being a Charge and a followup or 3, as you can pull that off within .025 seconds) Along with 2nd highest range amongst rifles, AND has maybe the 3rd highest DPS in the entire game.
CR...fails horribly against caldari sentinels, and gallente logis with ARRs, screw having that +40% to armor, i'm still going to die horribly because the ARR can instagank me in CQC.
AR... Is actually in a good place, it's just the WTF tier DPS of hte Breach and(to a MUCH lesser extent) the burst. Actually i'm a little confused as to why the Burst has a 70 shot clip but fires 3 round bursts, and is supposed to follow the CR in terms of higher-ish DPS and lower damage a clip.
^
I'm not calling it "OP" but its damage output needs to be put under control. Here's a good example.
I'm running my usual ck.0 fit:
540 shields
186 armor
2.10 delay(around there)
51/sec recharge
I notice a standard amarr assault at a distance so I find some cover and engage him with my arr in my optimal. Him being an intellegent player runs to the nearrst cover and proceeds to charge his gun, and the next time I pop my head out of cover he blasts me with several rounds after his charged. Assuming he didn't land all of his shots my shields are now gone and I have to llduck behind cover. He can repeat this until he either flanks me or drops me in one of his alpha bursts.
I on the other hand have to pre charge my are before leaving cover and hope he's still where he was last time, while fighting to keep his armor from completely repping him. Each giving him another window to drop me with those alpha bursts.
Granted the breach is lethal as well but I have range and regin over that as opposed to the scrambler rifle. There are multiple ways to deal with the breach or any other Ar while the scrambler rifle not so much.
The One And Only
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Sequal's Back
Les Desanusseurs
5
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Posted - 2014.12.20 10:48:00 -
[17] - Quote
"There are multiple ways to deal with the breach or any other Ar while the scrambler rifle not so much."
That is because you're engaging the most powerful anti-shield suit with a shield based suit!
Even if you play smart, if he is aware of your presence and is as smart as you, he will destroy you.
You could think that your ARR is an anti-armor weapon so it should be balanced between the 2. But as you said, RR has a charge up while ScR extremely powerful charge shots on shield. So the ScR guy will win.
Beeing an amarr assault I have the harder time dealing with GalAss+ RR. They are, IMO the best anti amarr suits. |
THE-PIMP-NAMED-SLICKBACK
Direct Action Resources
273
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Posted - 2014.12.20 11:05:00 -
[18] - Quote
Sequal's Back wrote:"There are multiple ways to deal with the breach or any other Ar while the scrambler rifle not so much."
That is because you're engaging the most powerful anti-shield suit with a shield based suit!
Even if you play smart, if he is aware of your presence and is as smart as you, he will destroy you.
You could think that your ARR is an anti-armor weapon so it should be balanced between the 2. But as you said, RR has a charge up while ScR extremely powerful charge shots on shield. So the ScR guy will win.
Beeing an amarr assault I have the harder time dealing with GalAss+ RR. They are, IMO the best anti amarr suits.
I'm not sayinf I shouldn't die, I'm saying it shouldnt take him 5 shots to drop me. The weapon is 20/20 of course its going to destroy me.
Take the rail rifle as an example, I have superior range over a gal assault with an ar. If I engage him while he's in the open most likely he'll make it to cover in one piece, considering the recoil I'm forced to reset the rifle or cope with it. Now him and I swap places and he's wielding a SCR. Even without his charge shot I'm gone within 10-12 rounds, all accurately fired relatively quickly in rapid succession.
I mean there a reason new players drift towards armor tanking when it takes a proto stacked out shield suit to effectively survive on the field.
The One And Only
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PARKOUR PRACTIONER
G0DS AM0NG MEN
General Tso's Alliance
2333
|
Posted - 2014.12.20 11:05:00 -
[19] - Quote
Powerh8er wrote:"Runs a scout twenty four seven constantly ganking people by shooting them in the back with ohk weapons, calls everyone else a scrub."
Oh my god someone using the scoutly weapons! Though cloak shotty, in EVERY game, is scrubby and cheap.
PSN Sil4ntChaozz
If HP were all, heavy would not fear scout. Lightning Bruiser
TF2/Warframe/Defiance
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duster 35000
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
110
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Posted - 2014.12.20 11:23:00 -
[20] - Quote
gustavo acosta wrote:The reason why shield based weaponry does so much damage is because armor type weaponry does relatively little to shields.
Do you know how to fit a shield suit?
500 shields 194 armor vs 700+armir 300 shields...no regen delay and can get repped....it's obvious which one is better...not to mention most weapons people use do bonus damage to shields...
I also think the ScR profile needs to go down...100% or 105%/85% or 90%...
Having high damage, spammable rof and a high profile against the lower hp pool is just idiotic balance and makes it instawin if you encounter a shield suit.
Choo Choo
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TheD1CK
Dead Man's Game
RUST415
1556
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Posted - 2014.12.20 11:29:00 -
[21] - Quote
Sequal's Back wrote:"There are multiple ways to deal with the breach or any other Ar while the scrambler rifle not so much."
That is because you're engaging the most powerful anti-shield suit with a shield based suit!
Even if you play smart, if he is aware of your presence and is as smart as you, he will destroy you.
You could think that your ARR is an anti-armor weapon so it should be balanced between the 2. But as you said, RR has a charge up while ScR extremely powerful charge shots on shield. So the ScR guy will win.
Beeing an amarr assault I have the harder time dealing with GalAss+ RR. They are, IMO the best anti amarr suits.
By that logic, a Rail weilding +20% dmg Cal Assault should be terrifying to Amarr suits.
It doesn't as you said yourself the threat is Gallente w/RR and your right..
The Armour tank suits are tougher and with high dmg weapons = rekt
(Bonus alterations on Cal Assault do not change the endurance of the suit = not a fix)
Both Armour tanks suits outclass the Shield suit, while Matari run free in the middle 
Every weapon in the game has counters, The ScR performs at all ranges and it's main counters are itself
via overheat and whether the user is accurate or not, other than that you are left hoping he misses..
How many Shield threads will be bashed by Armour tankers 
Shields need some work, whether to nerf dmg done to them, or buff their ability to take it.
The proof is when you deploy and Armour suits vastly outnumber the Shield options ...
I think minor changes will fix it
- The Plate nerf Rattati mentioned helps
- Buffs to Shield modules are welcome
- Fitting buff
- Shield weaponry alpha dmg |
duster 35000
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
110
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Posted - 2014.12.20 11:31:00 -
[22] - Quote
TheD1CK wrote:Sequal's Back wrote:"There are multiple ways to deal with the breach or any other Ar while the scrambler rifle not so much."
That is because you're engaging the most powerful anti-shield suit with a shield based suit!
Even if you play smart, if he is aware of your presence and is as smart as you, he will destroy you.
You could think that your ARR is an anti-armor weapon so it should be balanced between the 2. But as you said, RR has a charge up while ScR extremely powerful charge shots on shield. So the ScR guy will win.
Beeing an amarr assault I have the harder time dealing with GalAss+ RR. They are, IMO the best anti amarr suits. By that logic, a Rail weilding +20% dmg Cal Assault should be terrifying to Amarr suits. It doesn't as you said yourself the threat is Gallente w/RR and your right.. The Armour tank suits are tougher and with high dmg weapons = rekt (Bonus alterations on Cal Assault do not change the endurance of the suit = not a fix) Both Armour tanks suits outclass the Shield suit, while Matari run free in the middle Every weapon in the game has counters, The ScR performs at all ranges and it's main counters are itself via overheat and whether the user is accurate or not, other than that you are left hoping he misses.. How many Shield threads will be bashed by Armour tankers Shields need some work, whether to nerf dmg done to them, or buff their ability to take it. The proof is when you deploy and Armour suits vastly outnumber the Shield options ... I think minor changes will fix it - The Plate nerf Rattati mentioned helps - Buffs to Shield modules are welcome - Fitting buff - Shield weaponry alpha dmg
What needs to be fix is how effective ar's and scr's are vs shields...and a slight buff to caldari suits, 1 second less delay and 40 hp/s regen or 50 hp/s regen.
Maybe a slight extender buff, by 10.
Then slightly reduce the strafing penalty on plates, atleast the proto from 10% to 8%.
Oh and increase cpu cost of extenders, then increase cpu or cal and min suits.
Choo Choo
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Fatal Absolution
20435
|
Posted - 2014.12.20 12:51:00 -
[23] - Quote
duster 35000 wrote:gustavo acosta wrote:
Do you know how to fit a shield suit?
500 shields 194 armor vs 700+armir 300 shields
So your answer to his question would be 'no', then.
You can quite happily have a shield suit with 630 shields, 50 HP/s regen, 2s delay, with a reactive plate if you want one.
The HP differences between a properly fit shield suit and the armour suit you described are 70 on the primary tank, 50 on the secondary. In return for this, you get vastly higher regeneration rates - recovery times for an armour tanker are over twice what they are for a shield tanker. Regen delay is negligible, the shield tanker will overtake armour regen in the third second. And you will be completely unencumbered, compared to the armour tanker which in your example may have as much as a 24% strafe penalty.
This is not unbalanced. Now we've established this, let's have a look at your buffing plans.
Quote:
What needs to be fix is how effective ar's and scr's are vs shields...and a slight buff to caldari suits, 1 second less delay and 40 hp/s regen or 50 hp/s regen.
Maybe a slight extender buff, by 10.
Okay. So, 760 shields, 50 HP/s regen rate, 2s delay, unencumbered, leaving two low slots open. Let's compare that to your armour fit, shall we?
760 shields vs 706 armour - Shield wins.
50 HP/s with 2s delay vs 20 HP/s - Shield wins. Let's not even pretend that the regen delay means anything when it takes literally three seconds for the shields to overtake.
0% movement penalty vs 12% sprint/forward + 24% strafe penalty - Shield wins.
So. Why would anyone use armour after such an unnecessary overbuffing of shields, exactly?
Sometimes, one just has an overwhelming urge to throw a potato at someone.
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THE-PIMP-NAMED-SLICKBACK
Direct Action Resources
275
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Posted - 2014.12.20 13:03:00 -
[24] - Quote
duster 35000 wrote:
Oh and increase cpu cost of extenders, then increase cpu or cal and min suits.
Extenders already eat more cpu and pg than plates, theres no need to nerf their consuption harder. They need a pg reduction is all.
The One And Only
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duster 35000
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
110
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Posted - 2014.12.20 13:14:00 -
[25] - Quote
THE-PIMP-NAMED-SLICKBACK wrote:duster 35000 wrote:
Oh and increase cpu cost of extenders, then increase cpu or cal and min suits.
Extenders already eat more cpu and pg than plates, theres no need to nerf their consuption harder. They need a pg reduction is all.
I say buff extenders then increase thier cpu cost to discourage armor scrubs using them.
Choo Choo
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duster 35000
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
110
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Posted - 2014.12.20 13:17:00 -
[26] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:duster 35000 wrote:gustavo acosta wrote:
Do you know how to fit a shield suit?
500 shields 194 armor vs 700+armir 300 shields So your answer to his question would be 'no', then. You can quite happily have a shield suit with 630 shields, 50 HP/s regen, 2s delay, with a reactive plate if you want one. The HP differences between a properly fit shield suit and the armour suit you described are 70 on the primary tank, 50 on the secondary. In return for this, you get vastly higher regeneration rates - recovery times for an armour tanker are over twice what they are for a shield tanker. Regen delay is negligible, the shield tanker will overtake armour regen in the third second. And you will be completely unencumbered, compared to the armour tanker which in your example may have as much as a 24% strafe penalty. This is not unbalanced. Now we've established this, let's have a look at your buffing plans. Quote:
What needs to be fix is how effective ar's and scr's are vs shields...and a slight buff to caldari suits, 1 second less delay and 40 hp/s regen or 50 hp/s regen.
Maybe a slight extender buff, by 10.
Okay. So, 760 shields, 50 HP/s regen rate, 2s delay, unencumbered, leaving two low slots open. Let's compare that to your armour fit, shall we? 760 shields vs 706 armour - Shield wins. 50 HP/s with 2s delay vs 20 HP/s - Shield wins. Let's not even pretend that the regen delay means anything when it takes literally three seconds for the shields to overtake. 0% movement penalty vs 12% sprint/forward + 24% strafe penalty - Shield wins. So. Why would anyone use armour after such an unnecessary overbuffing of shields, exactly?
50 hp/s is nothing, you have delays and most weapons do more damage to shields. 1 damage stops your regen.
In eve caldari and gallente have almost samish hp.
armor has no delay.
armor gets rep tools.
armor gets regenable shields at first defense.
and I said 10 points extender buff...
Choo Choo
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Fatal Absolution
20436
|
Posted - 2014.12.20 13:35:00 -
[27] - Quote
duster 35000 wrote:
50 hp/s is nothing, you have delays and most weapons do more damage to shields. 1 damage stops your regen.
50 HP/s is huge. You recover in moments from all but the most catastrophic damage.
Quote:
In eve caldari and gallente have almost samish hp.
In EVE there are a huge number of different factors and you are also wrong, when armour bricks, shields does not keep up.
Quote:
armor has no delay.
If you had bothered reading my post or knew how regen works, then you would know that regen delays are negligible. On a properly fit shield tank shield regen will overtake armour regen on the third second - if regen fit, you can recover in under 10 seconds from everything.
Sometimes, one just has an overwhelming urge to throw a potato at someone.
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THE-PIMP-NAMED-SLICKBACK
Direct Action Resources
278
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Posted - 2014.12.20 13:48:00 -
[28] - Quote
duster 35000 wrote:THE-PIMP-NAMED-SLICKBACK wrote:duster 35000 wrote:
Oh and increase cpu cost of extenders, then increase cpu or cal and min suits.
Extenders already eat more cpu and pg than plates, theres no need to nerf their consuption harder. They need a pg reduction is all. I say buff extenders then increase thier cpu cost to discourage armor scrubs using them.
Yeah and break all current shield tanked fits. As it stands you have to optimize your equipment fitting skills to achieve a decent tank. I can't even run anything but a nanite injector, any increase to cpu would require a cpu buff to both cals and mins.
The One And Only
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duster 35000
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
113
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Posted - 2014.12.20 14:04:00 -
[29] - Quote
THE-PIMP-NAMED-SLICKBACK wrote:duster 35000 wrote:THE-PIMP-NAMED-SLICKBACK wrote:duster 35000 wrote:
Oh and increase cpu cost of extenders, then increase cpu or cal and min suits.
Extenders already eat more cpu and pg than plates, theres no need to nerf their consuption harder. They need a pg reduction is all. I say buff extenders then increase thier cpu cost to discourage armor scrubs using them. Yeah and break all current shield tanked fits. As it stands you have to optimize your equipment fitting skills to achieve a decent tank. I can't even run anything but a nanite injector, any increase to cpu would require a cpu buff to both cals and mins.
I said buff cal and min cpu as well.
Choo Choo
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duster 35000
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
113
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Posted - 2014.12.20 14:06:00 -
[30] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:duster 35000 wrote:
50 hp/s is nothing, you have delays and most weapons do more damage to shields. 1 damage stops your regen.
50 HP/s is huge. You recover in moments from all but the most catastrophic damage. Quote:
In eve caldari and gallente have almost samish hp.
In EVE there are a huge number of different factors and you are also wrong, when armour bricks, shields does not keep up. Quote:
armor has no delay.
If you had bothered reading my post or knew how regen works, then you would know that regen delays are negligible. On a properly fit shield tank shield regen will overtake armour regen on the third second - if regen fit, you can recover in under 10 seconds from everything.
Shields get melted by almost everything, and 50 hp/s is nothing because most weapons deal more damage to shields in the current meta, and you can have over 650 armor with 30 hp/s Regen without delays, while the ar and scr does less damage to you.
Choo Choo
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Cavani1EE7
Murphys-Law
646
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Posted - 2014.12.20 14:12:00 -
[31] - Quote
Arkena stop it 5 nobody gives a yuck if you get +20 hp/s with 2-3s at the cost of HP and your weapon sucks compared to their damage modded highest DPS weapons.
Shield tanking is hard mode /period.
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Bethhy
Ancient Exiles.
2729
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Posted - 2014.12.20 14:26:00 -
[32] - Quote
gustavo acosta wrote:THE-PIMP-NAMED-SLICKBACK wrote:The imbalance is obvious between the two tanking methods. You're right shield suits are too effective at armor tanking, they need a nerf IMO.
Shield and armor in general need to be addressed.
We have no parity.. They aren't even but with positives and negatives from each..
People would rather brick tank most suits then fit a specific tank and modules around it.
Take the Gallente Assault suit for example. It was Meant to run Damage mods in it's high slots. Then stack with the Assault weapon bonus to make a formidable tow to toe slower moving assault suit.
Much like what the Amarr Assault runs now.
But instead with the naturally high shield values on the Gallente suits compared to the Amarr, it makes it a viable brick tank scenario. Not to mention that there is a natural high shield recharge rate on Gallente suits.
Where Caldari Assaults couldn't run damage mods without sacrificing their main tank. But have mnore freedom with Kincats, Damps and then shield enhancing modules such as regulators.
We gave all kinds of suits natural armor repair which is just backwards to creating balance. Gallente and Amarr should have the armor repair... Minmatar have enough slots to make it work..
Shield suits should get natural higher shield by a decent value.. A possible built in bonus to shield regulator efficacy, and shield regulators get buffed.
This way DUST's weapon choice and suit choice actually matters... Shield and Armor suits on the battlefield matter and change the tactics and keeps the battlefield dynamic.
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Joel II X
Bacon with a bottle of Quafe
5179
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Posted - 2014.12.20 14:28:00 -
[33] - Quote
The ARR kicks ass on both shield AND armor suits, same as AR, but less so at armor, I've noticed.
Prof for shield weapons are awesome against starting fights, but not ending them due to armor, unlike armor weapons.
The current meta is armor so anti-armor weapons seem more viable.
The militia ARR has no spool.
Anti-armor weapons generally have more range than shield ones. Except the Laser Rifle, which kicks ass, but almost no one uses.
Shield suits are faster due not wearing plates (which is what's supposed to happen), so they are able to rep their shields faster, and pop a compact if they really need armor. While, for example, on a Gallente frame, it would take 3x the amount of time to get our shields back to full, are slower, and our regeneration rate is slower as well (assuming using 5 Reactives we'd get around only 30-something/s).
I've used Caldari Assaults with no armor buff mods and an ARR at 1 Operation in both the suit and weapon, and can say that if I were to have the same skills as my Gallente weaponry, it would most likely be having the same result against their counter-types: winning.
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Hansei Kaizen
The Jackson Five
309
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Posted - 2014.12.20 14:34:00 -
[34] - Quote
Bam Nutshot wrote:My Assault railrifle still kicks ass so i don't care...Cal assault is awesome!!
Strange, my ARR doesnt do ****. Switched to Militia Scrambler Rifle from Advanced Rail Rifle and got easier kills. Anyone else?
The answer to your complaint is PvE. Always.
NPE status: (Gò»°Gûí°n+ëGò»n+¦ Gö+GöüGö+
Casual solo
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Cavani1EE7
Murphys-Law
646
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Posted - 2014.12.20 14:46:00 -
[35] - Quote
Hansei Kaizen wrote:Bam Nutshot wrote:My Assault railrifle still kicks ass so i don't care...Cal assault is awesome!! Strange, my ARR doesnt do ****. Switched to Militia Scrambler Rifle from Advanced Rail Rifle and got easier kills. Anyone else?
It's just that the ARR is the hardest weapon to manage. It instantly starts kicking once you start shooting you know.
I suggest you to use the RR if you can't really manage it and you're a Caldari Assault.
Shield tanking is hard mode /period.
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Hansei Kaizen
The Jackson Five
310
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Posted - 2014.12.20 14:51:00 -
[36] - Quote
Cavani1EE7 wrote:Hansei Kaizen wrote:Bam Nutshot wrote:My Assault railrifle still kicks ass so i don't care...Cal assault is awesome!! Strange, my ARR doesnt do ****. Switched to Militia Scrambler Rifle from Advanced Rail Rifle and got easier kills. Anyone else? It's just that the ARR is the hardest weapon to manage. It instantly starts kicking once you start shooting you know. I suggest you to use the RR if you can't really manage it and you're a Caldari Assault.
How do you manage it? Feels pretty unmanagable to me 
The answer to your complaint is PvE. Always.
NPE status: (Gò»°Gûí°n+ëGò»n+¦ Gö+GöüGö+
Casual solo
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Bethhy
Ancient Exiles.
2730
|
Posted - 2014.12.20 14:55:00 -
[37] - Quote
Cavani1EE7 wrote:Hansei Kaizen wrote:Bam Nutshot wrote:My Assault railrifle still kicks ass so i don't care...Cal assault is awesome!! Strange, my ARR doesnt do ****. Switched to Militia Scrambler Rifle from Advanced Rail Rifle and got easier kills. Anyone else? It's just that the ARR is the hardest weapon to manage. It instantly starts kicking once you start shooting you know. I suggest you to use the RR if you can't really manage it and you're a Caldari Assault.
You put your crosshairs on your target... You have them light up... You LDS... Hold down your button and 80-90% Accuracy.
It works like this with every weapon...
The only thing that makes it different is in very CQC and having to do quick aim movements while hip firing.
Once your Hipfire crosshairs Light up again and you can strafe back and forth( left and right) while keeping the target infront of you? you have 80% accuracy again. Again, works with every hit scan weapon in the game.
DUST's aiming with a controller.. is simplistic and easy... COD is harder at end game... And that is sad. |
THE-PIMP-NAMED-SLICKBACK
Direct Action Resources
281
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Posted - 2014.12.20 15:04:00 -
[38] - Quote
Bethhy wrote:Cavani1EE7 wrote:Hansei Kaizen wrote:Bam Nutshot wrote:My Assault railrifle still kicks ass so i don't care...Cal assault is awesome!! Strange, my ARR doesnt do ****. Switched to Militia Scrambler Rifle from Advanced Rail Rifle and got easier kills. Anyone else? It's just that the ARR is the hardest weapon to manage. It instantly starts kicking once you start shooting you know. I suggest you to use the RR if you can't really manage it and you're a Caldari Assault. You put your crosshairs on your target... You have them light up... You LDS... Hold down your button and 80-90% Accuracy. It works like this with every weapon... The only thing that makes it different is in very CQC and having to do quick aim movements while hip firing. Once your Hipfire crosshairs Light up again and you can strafe back and forth( left and right) while keeping the target infront of you? you have 80% accuracy again. Again, works with every hit scan weapon in the game. DUST's aiming with a controller.. is simplistic and easy... COD is harder at end game... And that is sad.
Last time I checked cod didn't have scouts hopped up on crack, dancing in front of you faster than your character can run.
The One And Only
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Cavani1EE7
Murphys-Law
647
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Posted - 2014.12.20 15:10:00 -
[39] - Quote
Hansei Kaizen wrote:Cavani1EE7 wrote:Hansei Kaizen wrote:Bam Nutshot wrote:My Assault railrifle still kicks ass so i don't care...Cal assault is awesome!! Strange, my ARR doesnt do ****. Switched to Militia Scrambler Rifle from Advanced Rail Rifle and got easier kills. Anyone else? It's just that the ARR is the hardest weapon to manage. It instantly starts kicking once you start shooting you know. I suggest you to use the RR if you can't really manage it and you're a Caldari Assault. How do you manage it? Feels pretty unmanagable to me
It feels unmanagable for me as well after 15-20 bullets, so I basically stop shooting and charging up again but it will significantly increase your TTK... hipfiring in CQC is pretty managable though and I can strike even 30-40 bullets without troubles, but as you know the ARR has a relatively low DPS so CQC isn't the best choice for it.
The damage profile and the range are its best pros.
Shield tanking is hard mode /period.
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
3219
|
Posted - 2014.12.20 15:20:00 -
[40] - Quote
Gentlemen, gentlemen.
The point of this thread was to make a point about how shield weapons are harder hitters in every way than armor weapons.
We all know that shield tanking is worse than armor tanking, so lets talk about the issue at hand.
"Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms.
FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ
I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.
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THE MILLIONCLONE CHALLENGE
Xer Cloud Consortium
82
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Posted - 2014.12.20 15:50:00 -
[41] - Quote
If they buffed scrubs then the op would be good.
K den.
Assert dominance is actually a little kid.
Assert pocket money.
RealityGäó
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THE-PIMP-NAMED-SLICKBACK
Direct Action Resources
281
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Posted - 2014.12.20 15:53:00 -
[42] - Quote
THE MILLIONCLONE CHALLENGE wrote:If they buffed scrubs then the op would be good.
K den.
I feel I'm either too stupid or too smart to understand what you're saying.
The One And Only
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General12912
Gallente Marine Corps
224
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Posted - 2014.12.20 16:03:00 -
[43] - Quote
i think the reason why some think the shield weapons are so strong is becuse it rips through that first layer of HP (shields) pretty quickly. for a shield tanker, their main HP type, shields, is the first thing to go. the armor tanker goes through their main HP type, armor, second. so when you fire, lets say, an SCR at a Caldari, the damage dealt is boosted and then resisted once you hit the armor layer, whereas if you shoot a at an Amarr, the damage is resisted and then boosted. its almost like a nut in a shell.
now, lets look at the weapon characteristics
SCR: most effective against shields, but high damage all around, so it seems like not as much damage is resisted vs armor. this is to counter Minmatar, who lean towards dual tanking.
CR: Least effective vs shields, but most effective towards armor. however, this doesnt seem to be noticed as much because per shot, projectile weapons dont deal much damage per shot anyways. its more about spamming shots. it takes more individual shots to kill foes, this is why the Min Assault has a projectile weapon ammo boost. due to the low damage per shot, and resistance faced by shields, the damage is dealt at an even lower damage per shot ratio towards shield tankers.
Hybrid weapons: ever remember reading the hint while the game is loading that hybrid weapons deal as much damage to shields and armor? this is a lie now because there are no pure hybrid weapons. they are now Hybrid-rail or Hybrid-blaster weapons. the idea is that hybrid-blaster weapons arent as effective against shields (damage profile-wise) as laser weapons, but face less resistance vs armor and vice-versa for hybrid-rail weapons and their Anti-armor counterpart, Projectile weapons.
AR: a Hybrid-blaster rifle. damage is supposed to be distributed in a fashion similar to the CR, but at a less exagggerated rate.
RR: a hybrid-rail rifle. damage is distributed at a rof that is slower than the AR. its supposed to suit its range, as its supposed to fit the more calm, tactical surpression style while the AR fits more of a, if i may, "CHARGE!!!!" style.
Gallente-Fu Grand Master
Gallente Federation Patriot
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gustavo acosta
Capital Acquisitions LLC
General Tso's Alliance
606
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Posted - 2014.12.20 18:52:00 -
[44] - Quote
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:Gentlemen, gentlemen.
The point of this thread was to make a point about how shield weapons are harder hitters in every way than armor weapons.
We all know that shield tanking is worse than armor tanking, so lets talk about the issue at hand.
No, it's not. People don't know how to fit shield suits.
If shield suits weren't heavy hitters like their armor counterparts(because every other weapon is an anti-armor weapons) then shields would become the stronger tank. If someone is using an anti-shield weapon shields should be butter, just like how people who use anti-armor weapons cut it like butter.
The reason that armor suits seem more durable is because armor is meant to tank damage. Whereas shield suits are supposed to refrain from taking too much damage or their regen, their defining characteristic, becomes moot.
If you do know how to fit a shield suit I'd imagine this is just another silly attempt to lobby for another buff that shields do not need.
GimmeDatSuhWeet isk
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gustavo acosta
Capital Acquisitions LLC
General Tso's Alliance
606
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Posted - 2014.12.20 18:54:00 -
[45] - Quote
THE-PIMP-NAMED-SLICKBACK wrote:THE MILLIONCLONE CHALLENGE wrote:If they buffed scrubs then the op would be good.
K den. I feel I'm either too stupid or too smart to understand what you're saying.
There is no such thing as being too smart to understand. Maybe you should read up on internet lingo, or basic sentence structure to learn how people might mess it up purposefully.
GimmeDatSuhWeet isk
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THE-PIMP-NAMED-SLICKBACK
Direct Action Resources
282
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Posted - 2014.12.20 23:06:00 -
[46] - Quote
gustavo acosta wrote:THE-PIMP-NAMED-SLICKBACK wrote:THE MILLIONCLONE CHALLENGE wrote:If they buffed scrubs then the op would be good.
K den. I feel I'm either too stupid or too smart to understand what you're saying. There is no such thing as being too smart to understand. Maybe you should read up on internet lingo, or basic sentence structure to learn how people might mess it up purposefully.
Someone's a ball buster, this is the second time you've taken such a comment seriously.
The One And Only
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gustavo acosta
Capital Acquisitions LLC
General Tso's Alliance
607
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Posted - 2014.12.21 00:29:00 -
[47] - Quote
THE-PIMP-NAMED-SLICKBACK wrote:gustavo acosta wrote:THE-PIMP-NAMED-SLICKBACK wrote:THE MILLIONCLONE CHALLENGE wrote:If they buffed scrubs then the op would be good.
K den. I feel I'm either too stupid or too smart to understand what you're saying. There is no such thing as being too smart to understand. Maybe you should read up on internet lingo, or basic sentence structure to learn how people might mess it up purposefully. Someone's a ball buster, this is the second time you've taken such a comment seriously.
if there's sumthing i know how to do
GimmeDatSuhWeet isk
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duster 35000
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
121
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Posted - 2014.12.21 00:33:00 -
[48] - Quote
THE-PIMP-NAMED-SLICKBACK wrote:gustavo acosta wrote:THE-PIMP-NAMED-SLICKBACK wrote:THE MILLIONCLONE CHALLENGE wrote:If they buffed scrubs then the op would be good.
K den. I feel I'm either too stupid or too smart to understand what you're saying. There is no such thing as being too smart to understand. Maybe you should read up on internet lingo, or basic sentence structure to learn how people might mess it up purposefully. Someone's a ball buster, this is the second time you've taken such a comment seriously.
Actually, too smart to understand could mean they are maybe taking it to literally or because they can't look at it the way other people can...or something.
Choo Choo
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gustavo acosta
Capital Acquisitions LLC
General Tso's Alliance
607
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Posted - 2014.12.21 00:36:00 -
[49] - Quote
duster 35000 wrote:
Actually, too smart to understand could mean they are maybe taking it to literally or because they can't look at it the way other people can...or something.
nah. if ya can't undurstend sumting den it meens u lak the meens of understinding.
GimmeDatSuhWeet isk
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
3223
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Posted - 2014.12.21 00:40:00 -
[50] - Quote
gustavo acosta wrote:Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:Gentlemen, gentlemen.
The point of this thread was to make a point about how shield weapons are harder hitters in every way than armor weapons.
We all know that shield tanking is worse than armor tanking, so lets talk about the issue at hand. No, it's not. People don't know how to fit shield suits. If shield suits weren't heavy hitters like their armor counterparts(because every other weapon is an anti-armor weapons) then shields would become the stronger tank. If someone is using an anti-shield weapon shields should be butter, just like how people who use anti-armor weapons cut it like butter. The reason that armor suits seem more durable is because armor is meant to tank damage. Whereas shield suits are supposed to refrain from taking too much damage or their regen, their defining characteristic, becomes moot. If you do know how to fit a shield suit I'd imagine this is just another silly attempt to lobby for another buff that shields do not need.
Then how do you fit your shield suit, Mr. Amarr Sentinel?
"Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms.
FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ
I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.
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DAAAA BEAST
Corrosive Synergy
388
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Posted - 2014.12.21 02:11:00 -
[51] - Quote
Powerh8er wrote:"Runs a scout twenty four seven constantly ganking people by shooting them in the back with ohk weapons, calls everyone else a scrub."
"+50 Kill"
MY DUST 514 VIDEOS
Any ISK Donation helps ! :)
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gustavo acosta
Capital Acquisitions LLC
General Tso's Alliance
607
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Posted - 2014.12.21 02:54:00 -
[52] - Quote
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:
Then how do you fit your shield suit, Mr. Amarr Sentinel?
1. I'm not an Amarr Sentinal by any means, whoever is your information broker should be fired, from a cannon.
2. simply very simply
The principles used in these fittings can be applied to their min counterparts as well.
GimmeDatSuhWeet isk
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Grand Master Kubo
PIanet Express
Smart Deploy
266
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Posted - 2014.12.21 03:14:00 -
[53] - Quote
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:Powerh8er wrote:"Runs a scout twenty four seven constantly ganking people by shooting them in the back with ohk weapons, calls everyone else a scrub." Actually, I run an assault now. Scouts suck because CCP decided that alpha weapons were too good, so they gave everyone entitlement HP. But this coming from a guy complaining about heavies being underpowered, yeah Im sure you're real good....scrub.
The definition of FOTM chaser. |
gustavo acosta
Capital Acquisitions LLC
General Tso's Alliance
608
|
Posted - 2014.12.21 03:15:00 -
[54] - Quote
Grand Master Kubo wrote:Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:Powerh8er wrote:"Runs a scout twenty four seven constantly ganking people by shooting them in the back with ohk weapons, calls everyone else a scrub." Actually, I run an assault now. Scouts suck because CCP decided that alpha weapons were too good, so they gave everyone entitlement HP. But this coming from a guy complaining about heavies being underpowered, yeah Im sure you're real good....scrub. The definition of FOTM chaser.
^This
GimmeDatSuhWeet isk
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
3235
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Posted - 2014.12.21 22:00:00 -
[55] - Quote
Grand Master Kubo wrote:Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:Powerh8er wrote:"Runs a scout twenty four seven constantly ganking people by shooting them in the back with ohk weapons, calls everyone else a scrub." Actually, I run an assault now. Scouts suck because CCP decided that alpha weapons were too good, so they gave everyone entitlement HP. But this coming from a guy complaining about heavies being underpowered, yeah Im sure you're real good....scrub. The definition of FOTM chaser.
The definition of being viable in PC...
"Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms.
FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ
I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
3235
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Posted - 2014.12.21 22:01:00 -
[56] - Quote
gustavo acosta wrote:Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:
Then how do you fit your shield suit, Mr. Amarr Sentinel?
1. I'm not an Amarr Sentinal by any means, whoever is your information broker should be fired, from a cannon. 2. simply very simplyThe principles used in these fittings can be applied to their min counterparts as well.
We don't have enough buffer to be able to fully shield tank.
We have a ****** dual tank instead, which is annoying, but whatever.
"Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms.
FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ
I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.
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NIETZCHES OVERMAN
Mannar Focused Warfare
Gallente Federation
118
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Posted - 2014.12.21 22:05:00 -
[57] - Quote
THE-PIMP-NAMED-SLICKBACK wrote:gustavo acosta wrote:THE-PIMP-NAMED-SLICKBACK wrote:gustavo acosta wrote:The reason why shield based weaponry does so much damage is because armor type weaponry does relatively little to shields.
Do you know how to fit a shield suit? Did you get that backwards or are you just high as ****? The scrambler rifle exists and a milita can drop a proto cal assault in under two seconds if they know what they're doing. Oddly enough it'll take 50-75% of my arr clip to kill an apex amarr assault. The mysteties of this game eh? My militia AR takes out proto like butter too, armor and shields, what's your point? You might just have bad aim, bad fits, bad strafe, bad situational awareness. I don't know what you have, but from what I've experienced that -15% to shields really saves my min scout from getting instagibbed from hmgs, and my -20% on my gal assault really stops those scrambler riflers in their tracks, as long as I avoid armor based weapons on my gal assault I have an easy time taking everything else out. My fits are about as effective as a regen tank caldari assault can get. My aim well enough to actively maintain a 3.0 kdr while running apex cal assaults/logis. Doesn't mean much when all shield based weapons are geared towards high alpha, and maintain a relatively high rof. Playing with a controller over a mouse pad I don't have the same strafing advantages but circling the analog stick is sufficient. The imbalance is obvious between the two tanking methods.
Its not a method, its a choice. Choose better. |
Powerh8er
The Rainbow Effect
615
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Posted - 2014.12.21 22:18:00 -
[58] - Quote
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:Powerh8er wrote:"Runs a scout twenty four seven constantly ganking people by shooting them in the back with ohk weapons, calls everyone else a scrub." Actually, I run an assault now. Scouts suck because CCP decided that alpha weapons were too good, so they gave everyone entitlement HP. But this coming from a guy complaining about heavies being underpowered, yeah Im sure you're real good....scrub.
Im not the one crying about dying to "OP weapons" on the forums all the time am i?
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gustavo acosta
Capital Acquisitions LLC
General Tso's Alliance
609
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Posted - 2014.12.21 23:20:00 -
[59] - Quote
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:
The definition of being viable in PC...
>says he's viable in PC
>isn't a heavy
GimmeDatSuhWeet isk
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