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Z3dog BIG BAD W0LVES 60	Posted - 2014.12.13 23:52:00 - [1] - Quote The ranking system: which benefits aurum buyers (wallet warriors) by giving them perks. Apex suits: which allow wallet warriors to run prototype suits for free. Strongboxes: Keys are much rarer than strongboxes and the only way to keep up is to buy aurum. An aurum buyer has access to much more loot than someone who doesn't. Also it is essentially gambling. Notice a pattern? Wallet Warriors will defend this by saying they are supporting the games development. That its okay because it will lead to new features being added to the game that will be fun for everyone and that their unreasonable advantages are only temporary, or so minor nobody will even notice, or maybe that they deserve to be rewarded more because they are so "obviously" more passionate about this game. The money that is being invested in this game will only be used to add more features that will demand a player give CCP their money to stay competitive. Dust 5/14
LUGMOS YELLOW JESUS EXP FORCE 1107	Posted - 2014.12.13 23:57:00 - [2] - Quote Sigh... Point to me where the lockbox touched you... Official QuafeGäó Advocate Anti-FoTM Prof. V Forum Scavenger Prof. V
Megaman Trigger Knights of Eternal Darkness League of Infamy 138	Posted - 2014.12.13 23:57:00 - [3] - Quote I'll have to argue against points 1 and 2 to a degree. The ranking can go up just by logging in, winning games etc with no need to buy Aurum. Likewise, Apex suits can be earned in Factional Warfare. Aurum just makes them easier. A bigger point would be Boosters and the lack of an ISK variant, even if it was a lesser variant. Purifier. First Class.
LUGMOS YELLOW JESUS EXP FORCE 1108	Posted - 2014.12.13 23:59:00 - [4] - Quote Megaman Trigger wrote: I'll have to argue against points 1 and 2 to a degree. The ranking can go up just by logging in, winning games etc with no need to buy Aurum. Likewise, Apex suits can be earned in Factional Warfare. Aurum just makes them easier. A bigger point would be Boosters and the lack of an ISK variant, even if it was a lesser variant. But to counter argue yours, Aurum gives a huge difference in loyalty ranks. Official QuafeGäó Advocate Anti-FoTM Prof. V Forum Scavenger Prof. V
Forlorn Destrier Havok Dynasty 3088	Posted - 2014.12.13 23:59:00 - [5] - Quote I support this by saying CCP is a business and this game needed a justification to stay around. I suspect CCP told Rattatti, increase revenue or the game gets unplugged. Then we got balance hotfixes which stabilized the player base and started to generate a small number of return players. That wasn't enough though, so Ratatatatata convinced CCP to allow more client side patches, but there had to a monetary incentive to do so - after all CCP has to pay Sony for each patch deployed so you see what we get - a patch that generates revenue to justify the deployment; you get AUR stuffs as well in the market. It's not a conspiracy at all - it's business and I have no problem with a business generating revenue. I work for a business - if my company generates revenue I keep my job. Nuff said. EDIT: Not saying this applies to the OP; I don't understand people that expect CCP to give away their intellectual property for free. To me, its' enough you can play the game without spending a dime, and if you decide to spend money that is a great thing. You don't get pay to win - most of these changes are side grades to save the time sinks. I am the Forgotten Warhorse, the Lord of Lightning
Jack 3enimble Titans of Phoenix 605	Posted - 2014.12.14 00:01:00 - [6] - Quote Z3dog wrote: The ranking system: which benefits aurum buyers (wallet warriors) by giving them perks. Apex suits: which allow wallet warriors to run prototype suits for free. Strongboxes: Keys are much rarer than strongboxes and the only way to keep up is to buy aurum. An aurum buyer has access to much more loot than someone who doesn't. Also it is essentially gambling. Notice a pattern? Wallet Warriors will defend this by saying they are supporting the games development. That its okay because it will lead to new features being added to the game that will be fun for everyone and that their unreasonable advantages are only temporary, or so minor nobody will even notice, or maybe that they deserve to be rewarded more because they are so "obviously" more passionate about this game. The money that is being invested in this game will only be used to add more features that will demand a player give CCP their money to stay competitive. I run a prototype BPO by grinding out a 100k LP. What do you mean wallet warrior? Strong boxes have 80% **** in it... That leaves the aurum up for debate. I don't notice the pattern.. Dealing justice with a swift punch in the balls, now in battles near you! Lord of the Links
DAMIOS82 WarRavens Capital Punishment. 144	Posted - 2014.12.14 00:03:00 - [7] - Quote Quote: The money that is being invested in this game will only be used to add more features that will demand a player give CCP their money to stay competitive And thus continue to support the game, see how that circle works. Plus it was mentioned since the closed beta times that they where looking into implementing a feature or bonus for those that support this game aka buy stuff with real money. But it has only come out now in the form of loyalty ranks. Offcourse there was allready the early use of aurum gear. And in the future you can expect more of these things. CCP does love all there gamer children, just some more then others....
Z3dog BIG BAD W0LVES 60	Posted - 2014.12.14 00:03:00 - [8] - Quote Megaman Trigger wrote: I'll have to argue against points 1 and 2 to a degree. The ranking can go up just by logging in, winning games etc with no need to buy Aurum. Likewise, Apex suits can be earned in Factional Warfare. Aurum just makes them easier. A bigger point would be Boosters and the lack of an ISK variant, even if it was a lesser variant. The ranking CAN go up just be logging in, winning games etc. The point is someone who doesn't buy Aurum has no chance of competing with someone who does. Apex suits CAN be earned in factional warfare, however it is difficult to extremely difficult depending on what faction you're fighting for. Meanwhile a wallet warrior can not only get one apex suit instantaneously, they can get many across all classes and all races. Dust 5/14
TEBOW BAGGINS GREATNESS ACHIEVED THRU TROLLING 1413	Posted - 2014.12.14 00:07:00 - [9] - Quote just be glad you arent paying a monthly sub fee.. if you really need access to a shiny trinket system then just pay. and no i haven't payed since 2013, the same year i stopped caring about being competitive in dust.. i atually think it's cool that there is something now to spend my aurum on besides boosters if i do buy aurum again. all free games have micro transactions-welcome to 2014. AKA Zirzo Valcyn AFKing since 2012
VAHZZ 477	Posted - 2014.12.14 00:09:00 - [10] - Quote ok, I get what you are saying here and I agree. But, you have to understand one thing. Money talks, and it says "make me feeeeel good." Do you want CCP to ignore the talking money? If they do that, it is a clear crime and they could go to wallet jail, and believe me, YOU DO NOT WANT TO GO TO WALLET JAIL. It is a giant tease! Let CCP listen to the talking money ok. If money gives wallet warriors perks, it's because they paid for it. I don't want to pay and still get the same crap i can get for I$K. ~ Proud Sniper Scout

Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 10460	Posted - 2014.12.14 00:19:00 - [11] - Quote Z3dog wrote: Megaman Trigger wrote: I'll have to argue against points 1 and 2 to a degree. The ranking can go up just by logging in, winning games etc with no need to buy Aurum. Likewise, Apex suits can be earned in Factional Warfare. Aurum just makes them easier. A bigger point would be Boosters and the lack of an ISK variant, even if it was a lesser variant. The ranking CAN go up just be logging in, winning games etc. The point is someone who doesn't buy Aurum has no chance of competing with someone who does. Apex suits CAN be earned in factional warfare, however it is difficult to extremely difficult depending on what faction you're fighting for. Meanwhile a wallet warrior can not only get one apex suit instantaneously, they can get many across all classes and all races. Regarding your first point, I have to disagree about non-AUR players having no advantage over AUR players. Player A who never spent AUR can still beat the crap out of Player B (who spend AUR) just by using ISK-variant gear in a given match. AUR doesn't guarantee a win. Regarding your second point, I agree. But here comes the "BUT". I have encountered matches in FW where the Gallente and Minmatar would get their asses handed to them by the Amarr and Caldari. These kind of matches, ever since 1.10 came around, are no longer rare from the looks of it. It can depend on the time of day as well. In my case, since I live in the US EST, I see Gallente and Minmatar winning a lot in the day but then get stomped on their faces late at night by the opposing factions. I would know as I have had to grind a lot to get the Federation 'Serpent' Scout. I'm going for the Republic 'Tiger' Scout now but even now in the day time I'm encountering stiff opposition coming from the Amarr side. But overall, I never spent a single AUR to get my faction-variant APEX suit. I feel better and more accomplished getting the faction-variant APEX despite being able to afford the AUR-variant APEX right from the start. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Z3dog BIG BAD W0LVES 60	Posted - 2014.12.14 00:26:00 - [12] - Quote Forlorn Destrier wrote: I support this by saying CCP is a business and this game needed a justification to stay around. I suspect CCP told Rattatti, increase revenue or the game gets unplugged. Then we got balance hotfixes which stabilized the player base and started to generate a small number of return players. That wasn't enough though, so Ratatatatata convinced CCP to allow more client side patches, but there had to a monetary incentive to do so - after all CCP has to pay Sony for each patch deployed so you see what we get - a patch that generates revenue to justify the deployment; you get AUR stuffs as well in the market. It's not a conspiracy at all - it's business and I have no problem with a business generating revenue. I work for a business - if my company generates revenue I keep my job. Nuff said. EDIT: Not saying this applies to the OP; I don't understand people that expect CCP to give away their intellectual property for free. To me, its' enough you can play the game without spending a dime, and if you decide to spend money that is a great thing. You don't get pay to win - most of these changes are side grades to save the time sinks. Justification to stay around: Sort of like all the promises we where given, but where never kept. The player base doesn't need return players there are all kinds of new players coming into the game all the time. THAT is the advantage to the free to play system. Dust has NEVER once been in danger of nobody playing it. Also as for generating monetary incentive for client patches: I forget where I read it on these forums, but it was stated that the cost of client side patches is literally not even the lint on pocket change to a corporation like CCP. It's not a conspiracy at all: nice strawman. being anti pay-to-win does not equal anti revenue. Dust 5/14
Z3dog BIG BAD W0LVES 60	Posted - 2014.12.14 00:29:00 - [13] - Quote Jack 3enimble wrote: Z3dog wrote: The ranking system: which benefits aurum buyers (wallet warriors) by giving them perks. Apex suits: which allow wallet warriors to run prototype suits for free. Strongboxes: Keys are much rarer than strongboxes and the only way to keep up is to buy aurum. An aurum buyer has access to much more loot than someone who doesn't. Also it is essentially gambling. Notice a pattern? Wallet Warriors will defend this by saying they are supporting the games development. That its okay because it will lead to new features being added to the game that will be fun for everyone and that their unreasonable advantages are only temporary, or so minor nobody will even notice, or maybe that they deserve to be rewarded more because they are so "obviously" more passionate about this game. The money that is being invested in this game will only be used to add more features that will demand a player give CCP their money to stay competitive. I run a prototype BPO by grinding out a 100k LP. What do you mean wallet warrior? Strong boxes have 80% **** in it... That leaves the aurum up for debate. I don't notice the pattern.. Bet that's not an amarr or caldari apex. Even if it is how many do you have? Just one role? aww too bad Johnny deep pockets just bought seven. But hey! you could grind 18 hours a day for a month and be just as good as him i bet. Dust 5/14
G Felix Titans of Phoenix 371	Posted - 2014.12.14 00:31:00 - [14] - Quote Strongboxes are basically slot machines, and generally a poor use of Aurum. Apex suits are anywhere from mediocre to poor fits with absolutely no customization or adaptation options, and can also be earned through FW. The only real feature that I will grant the OP lies behind a pay wall is obtaining a high loyalty rank, where Aurum purchases make a significant difference. But consider the very menial gains to SP and ISK % granted by these ranks. For a free to play game, CCP has actually managed to do a very good job keeping players who put quarters into their PS3's happy with the added content without giving them any meaningful tactical advantage over a player who creates fits purely with ISK. Dust can be frustrating. (Gò»°Gûí°)Gò»n+¦ Gö+GöüGö+)
Z3dog BIG BAD W0LVES 60	Posted - 2014.12.14 00:46:00 - [15] - Quote DAMIOS82 wrote: Quote: The money that is being invested in this game will only be used to add more features that will demand a player give CCP their money to stay competitive And thus continue to support the game, see how that circle works. Plus it was mentioned since the closed beta times that they where looking into implementing a feature or bonus for those that support this game aka buy stuff with real money. But it has only come out now in the form of loyalty ranks. Offcourse there was allready the early use of aurum gear. And in the future you can expect more of these things. CCP does love all there gamer children, just some more then others.... adding p2w features on top of p2w features doesn't mean supporting the game, it means making corporate wallets fatter. A video game like dust requires x amount of items that demand real money and these x amount of items will produce y amount of revenue. Older examples of these were perishable. Aurum gear, boosters etc. Loyalty ranks and apex suits are not perishable Strongboxes are perishable and they offer rare items only obtainable through strongboxes. The devious trick is that statistically the only people getting these rare items will be paying for them. Loyalty ranks being like something they wanted to do back when the game was young does not make it okay. Dust 5/14
ADAM-OF-EVE Dead Man's Game RUST415 1729	Posted - 2014.12.14 00:51:00 - [16] - Quote boosters are the only real disparity between payers and non payers. when player trading comes in boosters will be selling for isk from day one by the truck load. i know its no consolation losing some time from not having boosters but when player trading comes in early next year everyone will have equal access to boosters. you just might not like the isk price All Hail Legion
Stevez Wingyip DUST University Ivy League 46	Posted - 2014.12.14 00:56:00 - [17] - Quote Z3dog wrote: The ranking system: which benefits aurum buyers (wallet warriors) by giving them perks. Apex suits: which allow wallet warriors to run prototype suits for free. Strongboxes: Keys are much rarer than strongboxes and the only way to keep up is to buy aurum. An aurum buyer has access to much more loot than someone who doesn't. Also it is essentially gambling. Notice a pattern? Wallet Warriors will defend this by saying they are supporting the games development. That its okay because it will lead to new features being added to the game that will be fun for everyone and that their unreasonable advantages are only temporary, or so minor nobody will even notice, or maybe that they deserve to be rewarded more because they are so "obviously" more passionate about this game. The money that is being invested in this game will only be used to add more features that will demand a player give CCP their money to stay competitive. This is a FTP game and you are whining at a company for trying to make money? See where I am going with this? Minmatar pilot and Merc and love my boyfriend @luppasc2! µêætê¦sê¬S¦Üsºå
Z3dog BIG BAD W0LVES 60	Posted - 2014.12.14 00:57:00 - [18] - Quote TEBOW BAGGINS wrote: just be glad you arent paying a monthly sub fee.. if you really need access to a shiny trinket system then just pay. and no i haven't payed since 2013, the same year i stopped caring about being competitive in dust.. i atually think it's cool that there is something now to spend my aurum on besides boosters if i do buy aurum again. all free games have micro transactions-welcome to 2014. So you admit that you've stopped caring about being competitive in dust and it coincides with when you stopped paying into the game? Not all free games have micro transactions. Micro transactions in free to play games are not unique to the year 2014. Dust 5/14
Megaman Trigger Knights of Eternal Darkness League of Infamy 139	Posted - 2014.12.14 01:00:00 - [19] - Quote LUGMOS wrote: Megaman Trigger wrote: I'll have to argue against points 1 and 2 to a degree. The ranking can go up just by logging in, winning games etc with no need to buy Aurum. Likewise, Apex suits can be earned in Factional Warfare. Aurum just makes them easier. A bigger point would be Boosters and the lack of an ISK variant, even if it was a lesser variant. But to counter argue yours, Aurum gives a huge difference in loyalty ranks. I already covered that by saying Aurum makes both ranking up and Apex acquisition easier. Purifier. First Class.
Megaman Trigger Knights of Eternal Darkness League of Infamy 139	Posted - 2014.12.14 01:03:00 - [20] - Quote Z3dog wrote: Megaman Trigger wrote: I'll have to argue against points 1 and 2 to a degree. The ranking can go up just by logging in, winning games etc with no need to buy Aurum. Likewise, Apex suits can be earned in Factional Warfare. Aurum just makes them easier. A bigger point would be Boosters and the lack of an ISK variant, even if it was a lesser variant. The ranking CAN go up just be logging in, winning games etc. The point is someone who doesn't buy Aurum has no chance of competing with someone who does. Apex suits CAN be earned in factional warfare, however it is difficult to extremely difficult depending on what faction you're fighting for. Meanwhile a wallet warrior can not only get one apex suit instantaneously, they can get many across all classes and all races. As I said, Aurum only makes it easier. Less P2W, more P2GetThereFaster. Besides, Apex BPO are Proto Suits loaded with Basic and Milita racial gear. A Basic ISK brought suit can go toe to toe and still match it. Purifier. First Class.

Lloyd Orfay Kinsho Swords Caldari State 281	Posted - 2014.12.14 01:03:00 - [21] - Quote Megaman Trigger wrote: I'll have to argue against points 1 and 2 to a degree. The ranking can go up just by logging in, winning games etc with no need to buy Aurum. Likewise, Apex suits can be earned in Factional Warfare. Aurum just makes them easier. A bigger point would be Boosters and the lack of an ISK variant, even if it was a lesser variant. You get very little points in ranking from logging in and winning games etc. Aurum buying rewards more. Apex suits were claimed by the devs to be meant for new players, yet a new player will have to do 100 battles to get the lp for said suits. Incompetence is not being able to stop a weapon from being omni-range effective, give it proper recoil or dispersion.
Z3dog BIG BAD W0LVES 60	Posted - 2014.12.14 01:06:00 - [22] - Quote VAHZZ wrote: ok, I get what you are saying here and I agree. But, you have to understand one thing. Money talks, and it says "make me feeeeel good." Do you want CCP to ignore the talking money? If they do that, it is a clear crime and they could go to wallet jail, and believe me, YOU DO NOT WANT TO GO TO WALLET JAIL. It is a giant tease! Let CCP listen to the talking money ok. If money gives wallet warriors perks, it's because they paid for it. I don't want to pay and still get the same crap i can get for I$K. Yes yes don't question someones motives for driving disparity between paying players and non paying players. Good good. "They paid for it" YES that's the problem. Dust 5/14
Joseph Ridgeson WarRavens Capital Punishment. 2925	Posted - 2014.12.14 01:10:00 - [23] - Quote I never understood why people say "APEX suits are FREE Prototype!" I am fairly sure you can build a Basic Suit with Complex Modules better than an APEX suit because of their non-optimal fitting and Standard quality gear. "This is B.S! This is B.S! I paid money! Cash money, dollars money, cash money!"
Z3dog BIG BAD W0LVES 61	Posted - 2014.12.14 01:14:00 - [24] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Z3dog wrote: Megaman Trigger wrote: I'll have to argue against points 1 and 2 to a degree. The ranking can go up just by logging in, winning games etc with no need to buy Aurum. Likewise, Apex suits can be earned in Factional Warfare. Aurum just makes them easier. A bigger point would be Boosters and the lack of an ISK variant, even if it was a lesser variant. The ranking CAN go up just be logging in, winning games etc. The point is someone who doesn't buy Aurum has no chance of competing with someone who does. Apex suits CAN be earned in factional warfare, however it is difficult to extremely difficult depending on what faction you're fighting for. Meanwhile a wallet warrior can not only get one apex suit instantaneously, they can get many across all classes and all races. Regarding your first point, I have to disagree about non-AUR players having no advantage over AUR players. Player A who never spent AUR can still beat the crap out of Player B (who spend AUR) just by using ISK-variant gear in a given match. AUR doesn't guarantee a win. Regarding your second point, I agree. But here comes the "BUT". I have encountered matches in FW where the Gallente and Minmatar would get their asses handed to them by the Amarr and Caldari. These kind of matches, ever since 1.10 came around, are no longer rare from the looks of it. It can depend on the time of day as well. In my case, since I live in the US EST, I see Gallente and Minmatar winning a lot in the day but then get stomped on their faces late at night by the opposing factions. I would know as I have had to grind a lot to get the Federation 'Serpent' Scout. I'm going for the Republic 'Tiger' Scout now but even now in the day time I'm encountering stiff opposition coming from the Amarr side. But overall, I never spent a single AUR to get my faction-variant APEX suit. I feel better and more accomplished getting the faction-variant APEX despite being able to afford the AUR-variant APEX right from the start. Yes they CAN beat them. Player A had to work and skill into their equipment. Player B did not. Nobody is arguing AUR guarantees a win. Dust 5/14
Z3dog BIG BAD W0LVES 61	Posted - 2014.12.14 01:25:00 - [25] - Quote Stevez Wingyip wrote: Z3dog wrote: The ranking system: which benefits aurum buyers (wallet warriors) by giving them perks. Apex suits: which allow wallet warriors to run prototype suits for free. Strongboxes: Keys are much rarer than strongboxes and the only way to keep up is to buy aurum. An aurum buyer has access to much more loot than someone who doesn't. Also it is essentially gambling. Notice a pattern? Wallet Warriors will defend this by saying they are supporting the games development. That its okay because it will lead to new features being added to the game that will be fun for everyone and that their unreasonable advantages are only temporary, or so minor nobody will even notice, or maybe that they deserve to be rewarded more because they are so "obviously" more passionate about this game. The money that is being invested in this game will only be used to add more features that will demand a player give CCP their money to stay competitive. This is a FTP game and you are whining at a company for trying to make money? See where I am going with this? Where did I say that CCP shouldn't try to make money. You should have read the OP. See where I am going with this? Dust 5/14
Megaman Trigger Knights of Eternal Darkness League of Infamy 140	Posted - 2014.12.14 01:30:00 - [26] - Quote Z3dog wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Z3dog wrote: Megaman Trigger wrote: I'll have to argue against points 1 and 2 to a degree. The ranking can go up just by logging in, winning games etc with no need to buy Aurum. Likewise, Apex suits can be earned in Factional Warfare. Aurum just makes them easier. A bigger point would be Boosters and the lack of an ISK variant, even if it was a lesser variant. The ranking CAN go up just be logging in, winning games etc. The point is someone who doesn't buy Aurum has no chance of competing with someone who does. Apex suits CAN be earned in factional warfare, however it is difficult to extremely difficult depending on what faction you're fighting for. Meanwhile a wallet warrior can not only get one apex suit instantaneously, they can get many across all classes and all races. Regarding your first point, I have to disagree about non-AUR players having no advantage over AUR players. Player A who never spent AUR can still beat the crap out of Player B (who spend AUR) just by using ISK-variant gear in a given match. AUR doesn't guarantee a win. Regarding your second point, I agree. But here comes the "BUT". I have encountered matches in FW where the Gallente and Minmatar would get their asses handed to them by the Amarr and Caldari. These kind of matches, ever since 1.10 came around, are no longer rare from the looks of it. It can depend on the time of day as well. In my case, since I live in the US EST, I see Gallente and Minmatar winning a lot in the day but then get stomped on their faces late at night by the opposing factions. I would know as I have had to grind a lot to get the Federation 'Serpent' Scout. I'm going for the Republic 'Tiger' Scout now but even now in the day time I'm encountering stiff opposition coming from the Amarr side. But overall, I never spent a single AUR to get my faction-variant APEX suit. I feel better and more accomplished getting the faction-variant APEX despite being able to afford the AUR-variant APEX right from the start. Yes they CAN beat them. Player A had to work and skill into their equipment. Player B did not. Nobody is arguing AUR guarantees a win. Give that the APEX suits are most basic tier racial that's available in the Loyalty Store, skilling isn't necessary. Earning, yes, but not skilling. Purifier. First Class.
Z3dog BIG BAD W0LVES 61	Posted - 2014.12.14 01:32:00 - [27] - Quote Joseph Ridgeson wrote: I never understood why people say "APEX suits are FREE Prototype!" I am fairly sure you can build a Basic Suit with Complex Modules better than an APEX suit because of their non-optimal fitting and Standard quality gear. You pay isk for dying in the basic suit with complex modules. You don't pay any isk for dying in the apex suit. You pay to put the complex modules on the basic suit and you pay for the basic suit itself as it is used. You don't pay for the prototype dropsuit and its standard equipment as it is used. Dust 5/14
Z3dog BIG BAD W0LVES 61	Posted - 2014.12.14 01:34:00 - [28] - Quote Megaman Trigger wrote: Z3dog wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Z3dog wrote: Megaman Trigger wrote: I'll have to argue against points 1 and 2 to a degree. The ranking can go up just by logging in, winning games etc with no need to buy Aurum. Likewise, Apex suits can be earned in Factional Warfare. Aurum just makes them easier. A bigger point would be Boosters and the lack of an ISK variant, even if it was a lesser variant. The ranking CAN go up just be logging in, winning games etc. The point is someone who doesn't buy Aurum has no chance of competing with someone who does. Apex suits CAN be earned in factional warfare, however it is difficult to extremely difficult depending on what faction you're fighting for. Meanwhile a wallet warrior can not only get one apex suit instantaneously, they can get many across all classes and all races. Regarding your first point, I have to disagree about non-AUR players having no advantage over AUR players. Player A who never spent AUR can still beat the crap out of Player B (who spend AUR) just by using ISK-variant gear in a given match. AUR doesn't guarantee a win. Regarding your second point, I agree. But here comes the "BUT". I have encountered matches in FW where the Gallente and Minmatar would get their asses handed to them by the Amarr and Caldari. These kind of matches, ever since 1.10 came around, are no longer rare from the looks of it. It can depend on the time of day as well. In my case, since I live in the US EST, I see Gallente and Minmatar winning a lot in the day but then get stomped on their faces late at night by the opposing factions. I would know as I have had to grind a lot to get the Federation 'Serpent' Scout. I'm going for the Republic 'Tiger' Scout now but even now in the day time I'm encountering stiff opposition coming from the Amarr side. But overall, I never spent a single AUR to get my faction-variant APEX suit. I feel better and more accomplished getting the faction-variant APEX despite being able to afford the AUR-variant APEX right from the start. Yes they CAN beat them. Player A had to work and skill into their equipment. Player B did not. Nobody is arguing AUR guarantees a win. Give that the APEX suits are most basic tier racial that's available in the Loyalty Store, skilling isn't necessary. Earning, yes, but not skilling. Neither earning nor skilling is necessary to obtain the apex suit. Dust 5/14
Z3dog BIG BAD W0LVES 61	Posted - 2014.12.14 01:43:00 - [29] - Quote Megaman Trigger wrote: Z3dog wrote: Megaman Trigger wrote: I'll have to argue against points 1 and 2 to a degree. The ranking can go up just by logging in, winning games etc with no need to buy Aurum. Likewise, Apex suits can be earned in Factional Warfare. Aurum just makes them easier. A bigger point would be Boosters and the lack of an ISK variant, even if it was a lesser variant. The ranking CAN go up just be logging in, winning games etc. The point is someone who doesn't buy Aurum has no chance of competing with someone who does. Apex suits CAN be earned in factional warfare, however it is difficult to extremely difficult depending on what faction you're fighting for. Meanwhile a wallet warrior can not only get one apex suit instantaneously, they can get many across all classes and all races. As I said, Aurum only makes it easier. Less P2W, more P2GetThereFaster. Besides, Apex BPO are Proto Suits loaded with Basic and Milita racial gear. A Basic ISK brought suit can go toe to toe and still match it. If you payed to get there faster then you payed to get there before someone else and if you payed to get there before someone else then you payed to beat them. Dust 5/14
Megaman Trigger Knights of Eternal Darkness League of Infamy 140	Posted - 2014.12.14 01:44:00 - [30] - Quote Z3dog wrote: Neither earning nor skilling is necessary to obtain the apex suit. Nor is buying necessary. Does Aurum give paying players an advantage? Yes and no. Yes in that Aurum lets you use things you lack the right skills for or lets you buy things like APEX suits but also no since using an Aurum weapon typically means having less SP invested, so the ISK version of that weapon actually has an advantage from the skills. Purifier. First Class.

jane stalin Ametat Security Amarr Empire 50	Posted - 2014.12.14 01:45:00 - [31] - Quote Z3dog wrote: The ranking system: which benefits aurum buyers (wallet warriors) by giving them perks. Apex suits: which allow wallet warriors to run prototype suits for free. . Thank you for voicing your concerns, I have spent a lot of money on the game and if all the people that play for free leave then I will have nobody to play against. However I think you are exaggerating a bit, you are saying as a wallet warrior I get loyalty ranks so I play 9 games instead where the noble souls that I cruelly exploit have have to play 10 you are also saying prototype suits are prototype suits, They are NOT the same as a typical prototype suits they have fixed STANDARD gear so they are as good as tailor made advanced suit worth 20,000 ISK, It is not that hard to get the level where you can buy advanced suits with ISK It is not hard to make money either, create a new character that lets you do the battle academy again and just fight in militia gear and pick the easy high cash missions for the day (Each character you have gets missions for a day and gets a logging in bonus I just checked this) , Once you have a big pile of money send it to your cash strapped character, Experiment with skill points and if the character is not interesting terminate it and start again.
Megaman Trigger Knights of Eternal Darkness League of Infamy 140	Posted - 2014.12.14 01:49:00 - [32] - Quote Z3dog wrote: Megaman Trigger wrote: Z3dog wrote: Megaman Trigger wrote: I'll have to argue against points 1 and 2 to a degree. The ranking can go up just by logging in, winning games etc with no need to buy Aurum. Likewise, Apex suits can be earned in Factional Warfare. Aurum just makes them easier. A bigger point would be Boosters and the lack of an ISK variant, even if it was a lesser variant. The ranking CAN go up just be logging in, winning games etc. The point is someone who doesn't buy Aurum has no chance of competing with someone who does. Apex suits CAN be earned in factional warfare, however it is difficult to extremely difficult depending on what faction you're fighting for. Meanwhile a wallet warrior can not only get one apex suit instantaneously, they can get many across all classes and all races. As I said, Aurum only makes it easier. Less P2W, more P2GetThereFaster. Besides, Apex BPO are Proto Suits loaded with Basic and Milita racial gear. A Basic ISK brought suit can go toe to toe and still match it. If you payed to get there faster then you payed to get there before someone else and if you payed to get there before someone else then you payed to beat them. However paying for access to, for example, a Proto Combat Rifle without having the skills to use the ISK version results in an overall weaker weapon compared to said ISK version. If you "payed to beat" someone to use a weapon than that's hardly an advantage if their ISK version can out-perform your Aurum one due to their skills. Purifier. First Class.
Forlorn Destrier Havok Dynasty 3088	Posted - 2014.12.14 04:53:00 - [33] - Quote Z3dog wrote: Forlorn Destrier wrote: I support this by saying CCP is a business and this game needed a justification to stay around. I suspect CCP told Rattatti, increase revenue or the game gets unplugged. Then we got balance hotfixes which stabilized the player base and started to generate a small number of return players. That wasn't enough though, so Ratatatatata convinced CCP to allow more client side patches, but there had to a monetary incentive to do so - after all CCP has to pay Sony for each patch deployed so you see what we get - a patch that generates revenue to justify the deployment; you get AUR stuffs as well in the market. It's not a conspiracy at all - it's business and I have no problem with a business generating revenue. I work for a business - if my company generates revenue I keep my job. Nuff said. EDIT: Not saying this applies to the OP; I don't understand people that expect CCP to give away their intellectual property for free. To me, its' enough you can play the game without spending a dime, and if you decide to spend money that is a great thing. You don't get pay to win - most of these changes are side grades to save the time sinks. Justification to stay around: Sort of like all the promises we where given, but where never kept. The player base doesn't need return players there are all kinds of new players coming into the game all the time. THAT is the advantage to the free to play system. Dust has NEVER once been in danger of nobody playing it. Also as for generating monetary incentive for client patches: I forget where I read it on these forums, but it was stated that the cost of client side patches is literally not even the lint on pocket change to a corporation like CCP. It's not a conspiracy at all: nice strawman. being anti pay-to-win does not equal anti revenue. I don't think anything mentioned in the OP is pay to win. I am the Forgotten Warhorse, the Lord of Lightning
Joel II X Bacon with a bottle of Quafe 5049	Posted - 2014.12.14 06:17:00 - [34] - Quote APEX suits: A proto suit with typically shitfits weapons and modules, available for free for either AUR, or ISK AND LP.
Viktor Hadah Jr Negative-Impact Back and Forth 6428	Posted - 2014.12.14 06:25:00 - [35] - Quote Z3dog wrote: The ranking system: which benefits aurum buyers (wallet warriors) by giving them perks. Apex suits: which allow wallet warriors to run prototype suits for free. Strongboxes: Keys are much rarer than strongboxes and the only way to keep up is to buy aurum. An aurum buyer has access to much more loot than someone who doesn't. Also it is essentially gambling. Notice a pattern? Wallet Warriors will defend this by saying they are supporting the games development. That its okay because it will lead to new features being added to the game that will be fun for everyone and that their unreasonable advantages are only temporary, or so minor nobody will even notice, or maybe that they deserve to be rewarded more because they are so "obviously" more passionate about this game. The money that is being invested in this game will only be used to add more features that will demand a player give CCP their money to stay competitive. Holy sht i am done being nice. you are fcking *****. if you want to point to where money affects people performance, point to triple stacking bonuses. I could not give two fcks if someone spends a 100$ on keys to get shtty items. What you should be btching about is when you cap out you can get 1mil SP for doing 1Mil SP of work but someone with a wallet can get 4Mil SP at cap for doing 1Mil SP worth of work. Strongboxes and and apex suits both are sht i can make better STD BPO suits than APEX suits. Compared to triple stacking boosters that's is not even slightly a problem. You can get keys from missions and salvage although it might be difficult. you can get APEX from FW. You can't get booster for free anywhere expect maybe on a rare salvage from the already hard to open and super shtty lock boxes. You care about someone buying keys so they can unlock assorted items mostly std and adv. But you are not worried that someone who plays free can get 1 proto suit in the time it takes someone who pays to get 4 proto suit. Your crying about paying to get sh*t is way off base. ))<>(( [Event]Dust Hunger Games PC, ISK,EVE, Corp Services
hold that Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 480	Posted - 2014.12.14 06:29:00 - [36] - Quote sounds like a hater posting. apex suits are trash. most of the stuff in the boxes are crap.
Juno Tristan Obscure Reference 229	Posted - 2014.12.14 07:45:00 - [37] - Quote OP, which would you prefer: pay $60 and there are no aur/boosters Or play the game for free and deal with other players paying to avoid the SP/APEX grind?
Dauth Jenkins Titans of Phoenix 612	Posted - 2014.12.14 08:06:00 - [38] - Quote Z3dog wrote: Megaman Trigger wrote: Z3dog wrote: Megaman Trigger wrote: I'll have to argue against points 1 and 2 to a degree. The ranking can go up just by logging in, winning games etc with no need to buy Aurum. Likewise, Apex suits can be earned in Factional Warfare. Aurum just makes them easier. A bigger point would be Boosters and the lack of an ISK variant, even if it was a lesser variant. The ranking CAN go up just be logging in, winning games etc. The point is someone who doesn't buy Aurum has no chance of competing with someone who does. Apex suits CAN be earned in factional warfare, however it is difficult to extremely difficult depending on what faction you're fighting for. Meanwhile a wallet warrior can not only get one apex suit instantaneously, they can get many across all classes and all races. As I said, Aurum only makes it easier. Less P2W, more P2GetThereFaster. Besides, Apex BPO are Proto Suits loaded with Basic and Milita racial gear. A Basic ISK brought suit can go toe to toe and still match it. If you payed to get there faster then you payed to get there before someone else and if you payed to get there before someone else then you payed to beat them. i can beat any 1 month old tanker running aurum gear with a militia tank. Why? because even though he payed the money to buy the tank, he hasnt racked up the experience to use it effectively. P2W is when you get something that is completely unavailable without spending real money, and that gives you a tangible edge over non paying players. the only thing that really falls under this category are boosters, but those dont really give you an edge over other players. everything else can be acquired without isk, although some are incredibly rare (im looking at you, lockbox keys). -Sincerely --The Dual Swarm Commando
Regnier Feros G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 151	Posted - 2014.12.14 11:17:00 - [39] - Quote Z3dog wrote: Megaman Trigger wrote: I'll have to argue against points 1 and 2 to a degree. The ranking can go up just by logging in, winning games etc with no need to buy Aurum. Likewise, Apex suits can be earned in Factional Warfare. Aurum just makes them easier. A bigger point would be Boosters and the lack of an ISK variant, even if it was a lesser variant. The ranking CAN go up just be logging in, winning games etc. The point is someone who doesn't buy Aurum has no chance of competing with someone who does. Apex suits CAN be earned in factional warfare, however it is difficult to extremely difficult depending on what faction you're fighting for. Meanwhile a wallet warrior can not only get one apex suit instantaneously, they can get many across all classes and all races. I have 4/5 Amarr bpo's. join a channel & qsync. I like pie do you like pie because i hate pie & I like muffins.
Immortal John Ripper 26522	Posted - 2014.12.14 11:21:00 - [40] - Quote Forlorn Destrier wrote: I support this by saying CCP is a business and this game needed a justification to stay around. I suspect CCP told Rattatti, increase revenue or the game gets unplugged. Then we got balance hotfixes which stabilized the player base and started to generate a small number of return players. That wasn't enough though, so Ratatatatata convinced CCP to allow more client side patches, but there had to a monetary incentive to do so - after all CCP has to pay Sony for each patch deployed so you see what we get - a patch that generates revenue to justify the deployment; you get AUR stuffs as well in the market. It's not a conspiracy at all - it's business and I have no problem with a business generating revenue. I work for a business - if my company generates revenue I keep my job. Nuff said. EDIT: Not saying this applies to the OP; I don't understand people that expect CCP to give away their intellectual property for free. To me, its' enough you can play the game without spending a dime, and if you decide to spend money that is a great thing. You don't get pay to win - most of these changes are side grades to save the time sinks. how do you know ccp has to pay money for every patch deployed? source or are you just making stuff up? Have you even read the standard contract that sony offers most 3rd party developers? I have read it before and i do not remember anything about charging for patches. Alt of Jadek.

General John Ripper 26524	Posted - 2014.12.14 11:21:00 - [41] - Quote Forlorn Destrier wrote: I support this by saying CCP is a business and this game needed a justification to stay around. I suspect CCP told Rattatti, increase revenue or the game gets unplugged. Then we got balance hotfixes which stabilized the player base and started to generate a small number of return players. That wasn't enough though, so Ratatatatata convinced CCP to allow more client side patches, but there had to a monetary incentive to do so - after all CCP has to pay Sony for each patch deployed so you see what we get - a patch that generates revenue to justify the deployment; you get AUR stuffs as well in the market. It's not a conspiracy at all - it's business and I have no problem with a business generating revenue. I work for a business - if my company generates revenue I keep my job. Nuff said. EDIT: Not saying this applies to the OP; I don't understand people that expect CCP to give away their intellectual property for free. To me, its' enough you can play the game without spending a dime, and if you decide to spend money that is a great thing. You don't get pay to win - most of these changes are side grades to save the time sinks. how do you know ccp has to pay money for every patch deployed? source or are you just making stuff up? Have you even read the standard contract that sony offers most 3rd party developers? I have read it before and i do not remember anything about charging for patches. Alt of Jadek.
DAMIOS82 WarRavens Capital Punishment. 147	Posted - 2014.12.14 13:44:00 - [42] - Quote Z3dog wrote: DAMIOS82 wrote: Quote: The money that is being invested in this game will only be used to add more features that will demand a player give CCP their money to stay competitive And thus continue to support the game, see how that circle works. Plus it was mentioned since the closed beta times that they where looking into implementing a feature or bonus for those that support this game aka buy stuff with real money. But it has only come out now in the form of loyalty ranks. Offcourse there was allready the early use of aurum gear. And in the future you can expect more of these things. CCP does love all there gamer children, just some more then others.... adding p2w features on top of p2w features doesn't mean supporting the game, it means making corporate wallets fatter. A video game like dust requires x amount of items that demand real money and these x amount of items will produce y amount of revenue. Older examples of these were perishable. Aurum gear, boosters etc. Loyalty ranks and apex suits are not perishable Strongboxes are perishable and they offer rare items only obtainable through strongboxes. The devious trick is that statistically the only people getting these rare items will be paying for them. Loyalty ranks being like something they wanted to do back when the game was young does not make it okay. Actually it does mean your supporting the game. If you go out and buy a game from the store, your basicly saying; I want to play your game and thus i support your company in making them. If you have a MMO with subscription and you agree to there terms, your still saying the same. Microtransactions is no different. It is like you said for generating revenue, thus when you agree to make a purchase it is to support there company in making the game, only then you get something in return for it. Quid pro quo. The view of the company is indeed to make money, so that they can continue making the product that they want to make, to make a good profit and to be able to pay the staff, there are simply no hand out's in this world. Yet not everybody wants the same thing in return for there money, So CCP starts with gear and alott of people go for it. Some say i don't want to spend on gear, but yes to boosters. Now there is also loyalty ranks, which still can be reached the normal way, just faster with aurum. Apex suits are crap, but again just aurum gear. Which they proberly did to get rid of the whining of how much isk it's costing people and how they can't compete with protobears, other then the revenue. And allthough strongboxes seem to be aurum based, it would not be for to long untill you can do the same with isk. EVE is the best example on how microtransaction work with CCP. You have your subscription, but you could just pay for it with plex, you can buy plex or play untill you can afford one. You can go to the store and buy neat gear for your pilot with aurum. You can buy the aurum or use your hard earned isk to get either the same gear or aurum. That's the same way Dust/Legion will go. Buying stuff with real money should give that litle bit extra even if it's just early access to it. I work my ass of 40 hours a week like many, instead of sitting on my ass and playing for 40 hours a week. So if i spend my hard earned money to support a game company, by buying there products, then yes i want that little bit more in return. So the more options CCP gives me to spend my money on, the more it will attract me. And i can't wait to see what comes next. Just wait until the player market hits, then all those rare items, will become really rare and only those that are willing to pay for them will benefit. Ow the tasty tears...... Now that all beeing said does not mean that freeloaders should not be able to do the same with isk, i'm just saying i should be able to do it sooner and earlier, because i pay for it. And if it wasn't for people like me, no matter how small, some gamecompanies would not exist in this day of age.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 10475	Posted - 2014.12.14 21:31:00 - [43] - Quote G Felix wrote: Strongboxes are basically slot machines, and generally a poor use of Aurum. Apex suits are anywhere from mediocre to poor fits with absolutely no customization or adaptation options, and can also be earned through FW. The only real feature that I will grant the OP lies behind a pay wall is obtaining a high loyalty rank, where Aurum purchases make a significant difference. But consider the very menial gains to SP and ISK % granted by these ranks. For a free to play game, CCP has actually managed to do a very good job keeping players who put quarters into their PS3's happy with the added content without giving them any meaningful tactical advantage over a player who creates fits purely with ISK. Even then I wouldn't go so far as to even call it a "pay wall". Pay Walls are generally defined or viewed by the gaming industry as barriers in a game where you are totally incapable of progressing any further if you don't pay any cash. By that definition, the Loyalty Rank system doesn't qualify as a Pay Wall. With enough winning matches, with enough daily logins, and with enough other non-AUR related activities, you will be able to reach Loyalty Rank 15 without paying a single AUR. It's a MASSIVE GRIND to do so but eventually you'll get there. In other words, a true Pay Wall is like an impenetrable wall that not even Superman can break through if he's broke as a hobo while the Loyalty Rank system is like a flimsy grid-iron frence that's rusty and loose in a few places and if you're willing to ignore the "No Trespassing" signs on it, you'll get through without paying the guard that's on duty. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 10475	Posted - 2014.12.14 21:35:00 - [44] - Quote I have a question to the OP. At what point is the line drawn where supporting a game with cash becomes outright milking of the wallets? On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
RogueTrooper 2000AD Neckbeard Absolution 421	Posted - 2014.12.14 21:45:00 - [45] - Quote These options are all optional and not integral to the game and people decide whether they want to spend or not. It's not like people are brainwashed into buying stuff and you'd have to be some fking idiot to think they are. Op, you do not HAVE to open lockboxes often, you do not HAVE to do any of that stuff or buy it just because it is in the game. The advantage people get is minimal and if it bothers you then tough ****, get a grip. Scrub warriors will always whine about everything being free and how a game company is supposed to just magically host a game for free. Op you may as well have just put "im a broke scrub and im not going to take it anymore". Go outside, raise your arms and shout it. K den. Do not try and bend the K den. That's impossible. Instead... only try to realize the truth. There is no k den.
Spademan Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 5028	Posted - 2014.12.14 21:45:00 - [46] - Quote I'm happy that CCP is finding new ways to make money of other players, because it means I can still sponge a free game off them. I am part shovel, part man, full scout, and a little bit special. Official Time Lord of the Scout Community
RogueTrooper 2000AD Neckbeard Absolution 421	Posted - 2014.12.14 21:47:00 - [47] - Quote Spademan wrote: I'm happy that CCP is finding new ways to make money of other players, because it means I can still sponge a free game off them. Exactly. Do not try and bend the K den. That's impossible. Instead... only try to realize the truth. There is no k den.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 10475	Posted - 2014.12.14 21:48:00 - [48] - Quote Z3dog wrote: If you payed to get there faster then you payed to get there before someone else and if you payed to get there before someone else then you payed to beat them. I see a critical flaw in that logic of yours. You may have payed to get there faster before someone else (ie: Boosters), but eventually the players who don't pay will get to your level as well and the universe balances itself out as a result. But remember, getting the SP sooner to use proto gear using boosters doesn't guarantee a win in an actual 1v1 encounter. There are players out there who can wreck protos with militia if they have sufficient gameplay experience and know what they're doing. Also, you can officially disqualify boosters as part of this argument because now with Daily Missions you can get 1-Day Active Boosters (whether regular or Omega) for free if you grind enough missions. In this one week alone since 1.10 deployed, I managed to earn a 1-Day Omega Active Booster and a 1-Day Active Booster without paying any AUR in any way, shape, or form. For anyone who can grind for a long time in a single day, this is a great way to progress quickly without paying anything. You still can't get the 3-Day, 7-Day, or 30-Day variants for free, but at least it helps those players who are strapped for cash but willing to grind. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Crimson ShieId Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 1615	Posted - 2014.12.14 21:52:00 - [49] - Quote So what unreasonable advantages are people who spend money on this game actually getting over the people who have simply been playing it for a year or more? Those unlimited proto suits... you can earn those without paying money. That Aurum gear? Easily earned and bought with Isk. There's literally only one item in this game that does not have an Isk equal conterpart, and that's the Void Uplinks, which allow five, count em... five total spawns before detonating. These advantages you speak of, OP, would only be relevant if Dust was a brand new game that had no players in possession of hundreds of millions of Isk and millions of SP. Those purchase only weapons and suits offer only two things special, and that's a pretty camo and a different name from the standards on the killfeed. I want to punch.
RogueTrooper 2000AD Neckbeard Absolution 423	Posted - 2014.12.14 21:52:00 - [50] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Z3dog wrote: If you payed to get there faster then you payed to get there before someone else and if you payed to get there before someone else then you payed to beat them. I see a critical flaw in that logic of yours. You may have payed to get there faster before someone else (ie: Boosters), but eventually the players who don't pay will get to your level as well and the universe balances itself out as a result. But remember, getting the SP sooner to use proto gear using boosters doesn't guarantee a win in an actual 1v1 encounter. There are players out there who can wreck protos with militia if they have sufficient gameplay experience and know what they're doing. Also, you can officially disqualify boosters as part of this argument because now with Daily Missions you can get 1-Day Active Boosters (whether regular or Omega) for free if you grind enough missions. In this one week alone since 1.10 deployed, I managed to earn a 1-Day Omega Active Booster and a 1-Day Active Booster without paying any AUR in any way, shape, or form. For anyone who can grind for a long time in a single day, this is a great way to progress quickly without paying anything. You still can't get the 3-Day, 7-Day, or 30-Day variants for free, but at least it helps those players who are strapped for cash but willing to grind. There's a weekly cap anyway so it is completely flawed and moot. Nothing but ramblings from some kid or skint hooray who doesn't have a clue. Do not try and bend the K den. That's impossible. Instead... only try to realize the truth. There is no k den.

Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 10476	Posted - 2014.12.14 21:54:00 - [51] - Quote Immortal John Ripper wrote: Forlorn Destrier wrote: I support this by saying CCP is a business and this game needed a justification to stay around. I suspect CCP told Rattatti, increase revenue or the game gets unplugged. Then we got balance hotfixes which stabilized the player base and started to generate a small number of return players. That wasn't enough though, so Ratatatatata convinced CCP to allow more client side patches, but there had to a monetary incentive to do so - after all CCP has to pay Sony for each patch deployed so you see what we get - a patch that generates revenue to justify the deployment; you get AUR stuffs as well in the market. It's not a conspiracy at all - it's business and I have no problem with a business generating revenue. I work for a business - if my company generates revenue I keep my job. Nuff said. EDIT: Not saying this applies to the OP; I don't understand people that expect CCP to give away their intellectual property for free. To me, its' enough you can play the game without spending a dime, and if you decide to spend money that is a great thing. You don't get pay to win - most of these changes are side grades to save the time sinks. how do you know ccp has to pay money for every patch deployed? source or are you just making stuff up? Have you even read the standard contract that sony offers most 3rd party developers? I have read it before and i do not remember anything about charging for patches. From what I last heard from CCP, they don't get charged at all from the looks of it. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 10476	Posted - 2014.12.14 21:59:00 - [52] - Quote RogueTrooper 2000AD wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Z3dog wrote: If you payed to get there faster then you payed to get there before someone else and if you payed to get there before someone else then you payed to beat them. I see a critical flaw in that logic of yours. You may have payed to get there faster before someone else (ie: Boosters), but eventually the players who don't pay will get to your level as well and the universe balances itself out as a result. But remember, getting the SP sooner to use proto gear using boosters doesn't guarantee a win in an actual 1v1 encounter. There are players out there who can wreck protos with militia if they have sufficient gameplay experience and know what they're doing. Also, you can officially disqualify boosters as part of this argument because now with Daily Missions you can get 1-Day Active Boosters (whether regular or Omega) for free if you grind enough missions. In this one week alone since 1.10 deployed, I managed to earn a 1-Day Omega Active Booster and a 1-Day Active Booster without paying any AUR in any way, shape, or form. For anyone who can grind for a long time in a single day, this is a great way to progress quickly without paying anything. You still can't get the 3-Day, 7-Day, or 30-Day variants for free, but at least it helps those players who are strapped for cash but willing to grind. There's a weekly cap anyway so it is completely flawed and moot. Nothing but ramblings from some kid or skint hooray who doesn't have a clue. I wouldn't call him names. He does have a concern that he is entitled to speak his mind about. All I did was point out a flaw or two in his argument which I'm also entitled to do. Besides, I don't want this thread to devolve into name-calling. Otherwise it will get locked and that will be a shame. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
NextDark Knight Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 739	Posted - 2014.12.14 22:01:00 - [53] - Quote While the Apex suits are a good idea.. When I'm running solo full proto and run into a full squad of people running the Apex gear and getting owned by them it's really really really annoying. Over 60+ Million SP and full proto in all Caldari Suits. Dust just won't die on PS3/Xbox. Dustin since 6/29/2012
RogueTrooper 2000AD Neckbeard Absolution 425	Posted - 2014.12.14 22:01:00 - [54] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Immortal John Ripper wrote: Forlorn Destrier wrote: I support this by saying CCP is a business and this game needed a justification to stay around. I suspect CCP told Rattatti, increase revenue or the game gets unplugged. Then we got balance hotfixes which stabilized the player base and started to generate a small number of return players. That wasn't enough though, so Ratatatatata convinced CCP to allow more client side patches, but there had to a monetary incentive to do so - after all CCP has to pay Sony for each patch deployed so you see what we get - a patch that generates revenue to justify the deployment; you get AUR stuffs as well in the market. It's not a conspiracy at all - it's business and I have no problem with a business generating revenue. I work for a business - if my company generates revenue I keep my job. Nuff said. EDIT: Not saying this applies to the OP; I don't understand people that expect CCP to give away their intellectual property for free. To me, its' enough you can play the game without spending a dime, and if you decide to spend money that is a great thing. You don't get pay to win - most of these changes are side grades to save the time sinks. how do you know ccp has to pay money for every patch deployed? source or are you just making stuff up? Have you even read the standard contract that sony offers most 3rd party developers? I have read it before and i do not remember anything about charging for patches. From what I last heard from CCP, they don't get charged at all from the looks of it. Even if they don't have to pay anything to SONY, anyone who thinks some guys are going to put time into a game for nothing are completely detached from reality. There are costs anyway. Electric isn't free and people don't work for nothing last time i checked and there will be more. You can be as sure about that as we are about the law of thermodynamics, nothing is free. Do not try and bend the K den. That's impossible. Instead... only try to realize the truth. There is no k den.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 10476	Posted - 2014.12.14 22:05:00 - [55] - Quote RogueTrooper 2000AD wrote: Even if they don't have to pay anything to SONY, anyone who thinks some guys are going to put time into a game for nothing are completely detached from reality. There are costs anyway. Electric isn't free and people don't work for nothing last time i checked and there will be more. You can be as sure about that as we are about the law of thermodynamics, nothing is free. True enough. There is overhead to consider such as Payroll Expense, Utilities, Health Insurance (if any), Travel Expense, etc. I have done a lot of bookkeeping in my youth for various businesses and I will tell you that businesses need to make a lot of money just to stay afloat. You will be amazed at the expenses. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
RogueTrooper 2000AD Neckbeard Absolution 425	Posted - 2014.12.14 22:05:00 - [56] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: RogueTrooper 2000AD wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Z3dog wrote: If you payed to get there faster then you payed to get there before someone else and if you payed to get there before someone else then you payed to beat them. I see a critical flaw in that logic of yours. You may have payed to get there faster before someone else (ie: Boosters), but eventually the players who don't pay will get to your level as well and the universe balances itself out as a result. But remember, getting the SP sooner to use proto gear using boosters doesn't guarantee a win in an actual 1v1 encounter. There are players out there who can wreck protos with militia if they have sufficient gameplay experience and know what they're doing. Also, you can officially disqualify boosters as part of this argument because now with Daily Missions you can get 1-Day Active Boosters (whether regular or Omega) for free if you grind enough missions. In this one week alone since 1.10 deployed, I managed to earn a 1-Day Omega Active Booster and a 1-Day Active Booster without paying any AUR in any way, shape, or form. For anyone who can grind for a long time in a single day, this is a great way to progress quickly without paying anything. You still can't get the 3-Day, 7-Day, or 30-Day variants for free, but at least it helps those players who are strapped for cash but willing to grind. There's a weekly cap anyway so it is completely flawed and moot. Nothing but ramblings from some kid or skint hooray who doesn't have a clue. I wouldn't call him names. He does have a concern that he is entitled to speak his mind about. All I did was point out a flaw or two in his argument which I'm also entitled to do. Besides, I don't want this thread to devolve into name-calling. Otherwise it will get locked and that will be a shame. More an observation than names. If the op is not then this thread would not exist. Do not try and bend the K den. That's impossible. Instead... only try to realize the truth. There is no k den.
RogueTrooper 2000AD Neckbeard Absolution 425	Posted - 2014.12.14 22:06:00 - [57] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: RogueTrooper 2000AD wrote: Even if they don't have to pay anything to SONY, anyone who thinks some guys are going to put time into a game for nothing are completely detached from reality. There are costs anyway. Electric isn't free and people don't work for nothing last time i checked and there will be more. You can be as sure about that as we are about the law of thermodynamics, nothing is free. True enough. There is overhead to consider such as Payroll Expense, Utilities, Health Insurance (if any), Travel Expense, etc. I have done a lot of bookkeeping in my youth for various businesses and I will tell you that businesses need to make a lot of money just to stay afloat. You will be amazed at the expenses. Exactly. Do not try and bend the K den. That's impossible. Instead... only try to realize the truth. There is no k den.
RogueTrooper 2000AD Neckbeard Absolution 426	Posted - 2014.12.14 22:13:00 - [58] - Quote Anyway. K den. Do not try and bend the K den. That's impossible. Instead... only try to realize the truth. There is no k den.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 10476	Posted - 2014.12.14 22:15:00 - [59] - Quote Spademan wrote: I'm happy that CCP is finding new ways to make money of other players, because it means I can still sponge a free game off them. Which is great for non-paying players. They try out AUR gear or boosters or even try out using the Hacked Encryption Keys without paying anything if they grind the Daily Missions enough and see for themselves before actually spending money on it. The expanded payment options also helped Dust secure its own future by no longer having to depend so heavily on research and development funding. EDIT: My only beef with the keys is that the free ones are really rare compared to the AUR ones. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Pvt Numnutz Prophets of the Velocirapture 2025	Posted - 2014.12.14 22:34:00 - [60] - Quote So your saying dust is p2w? I don't understand, can you show me an example where paying for aur gives a merc a clear advantage over another? Before you answer, no, apex suits, loyalty ranks and strongboxes can be gained by playing without paying Master Skyshark rider Kaalaka dakka tamer

NextDark Knight Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 742	Posted - 2014.12.14 23:32:00 - [61] - Quote Pvt Numnutz wrote: So your saying dust is p2w? I don't understand, can you show me an example where paying for aur gives a merc a clear advantage over another? Before you answer, no, apex suits, loyalty ranks and strongboxes can be gained by playing without paying With a few months of play time invested.. Over 60+ Million SP and full proto in all Caldari Suits. Dust just won't die on PS3/Xbox. Dustin since 6/29/2012


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