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Z3dog
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Posted - 2014.12.13 23:52:00 -
[1] - Quote
The ranking system: which benefits aurum buyers (wallet warriors) by giving them perks.
Apex suits: which allow wallet warriors to run prototype suits for free.
Strongboxes: Keys are much rarer than strongboxes and the only way to keep up is to buy aurum. An aurum buyer has access to much more loot than someone who doesn't. Also it is essentially gambling.
Notice a pattern?
Wallet Warriors will defend this by saying they are supporting the games development. That its okay because it will lead to new features being added to the game that will be fun for everyone and that their unreasonable advantages are only temporary, or so minor nobody will even notice, or maybe that they deserve to be rewarded more because they are so "obviously" more passionate about this game.
The money that is being invested in this game will only be used to add more features that will demand a player give CCP their money to stay competitive.
Dust 5/14
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Z3dog
BIG BAD W0LVES
60
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Posted - 2014.12.14 00:03:00 -
[2] - Quote
Megaman Trigger wrote:I'll have to argue against points 1 and 2 to a degree. The ranking can go up just by logging in, winning games etc with no need to buy Aurum. Likewise, Apex suits can be earned in Factional Warfare. Aurum just makes them easier.
A bigger point would be Boosters and the lack of an ISK variant, even if it was a lesser variant.
The ranking CAN go up just be logging in, winning games etc. The point is someone who doesn't buy Aurum has no chance of competing with someone who does.
Apex suits CAN be earned in factional warfare, however it is difficult to extremely difficult depending on what faction you're fighting for. Meanwhile a wallet warrior can not only get one apex suit instantaneously, they can get many across all classes and all races.
Dust 5/14
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Z3dog
BIG BAD W0LVES
60
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Posted - 2014.12.14 00:26:00 -
[3] - Quote
Forlorn Destrier wrote:I support this by saying CCP is a business and this game needed a justification to stay around. I suspect CCP told Rattatti, increase revenue or the game gets unplugged.
Then we got balance hotfixes which stabilized the player base and started to generate a small number of return players.
That wasn't enough though, so Ratatatatata convinced CCP to allow more client side patches, but there had to a monetary incentive to do so - after all CCP has to pay Sony for each patch deployed so you see what we get - a patch that generates revenue to justify the deployment; you get AUR stuffs as well in the market.
It's not a conspiracy at all - it's business and I have no problem with a business generating revenue. I work for a business - if my company generates revenue I keep my job. Nuff said.
EDIT: Not saying this applies to the OP; I don't understand people that expect CCP to give away their intellectual property for free. To me, its' enough you can play the game without spending a dime, and if you decide to spend money that is a great thing. You don't get pay to win - most of these changes are side grades to save the time sinks.
Justification to stay around: Sort of like all the promises we where given, but where never kept.
The player base doesn't need return players there are all kinds of new players coming into the game all the time. THAT is the advantage to the free to play system. Dust has NEVER once been in danger of nobody playing it.
Also as for generating monetary incentive for client patches: I forget where I read it on these forums, but it was stated that the cost of client side patches is literally not even the lint on pocket change to a corporation like CCP.
It's not a conspiracy at all: nice strawman. being anti pay-to-win does not equal anti revenue.
Dust 5/14
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Z3dog
BIG BAD W0LVES
60
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Posted - 2014.12.14 00:29:00 -
[4] - Quote
Jack 3enimble wrote:Z3dog wrote:The ranking system: which benefits aurum buyers (wallet warriors) by giving them perks.
Apex suits: which allow wallet warriors to run prototype suits for free.
Strongboxes: Keys are much rarer than strongboxes and the only way to keep up is to buy aurum. An aurum buyer has access to much more loot than someone who doesn't. Also it is essentially gambling.
Notice a pattern?
Wallet Warriors will defend this by saying they are supporting the games development. That its okay because it will lead to new features being added to the game that will be fun for everyone and that their unreasonable advantages are only temporary, or so minor nobody will even notice, or maybe that they deserve to be rewarded more because they are so "obviously" more passionate about this game.
The money that is being invested in this game will only be used to add more features that will demand a player give CCP their money to stay competitive. I run a prototype BPO by grinding out a 100k LP. What do you mean wallet warrior? Strong boxes have 80% **** in it... That leaves the aurum up for debate. I don't notice the pattern..
Bet that's not an amarr or caldari apex.
Even if it is how many do you have? Just one role? aww too bad Johnny deep pockets just bought seven. But hey! you could grind 18 hours a day for a month and be just as good as him i bet.
Dust 5/14
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Z3dog
BIG BAD W0LVES
60
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Posted - 2014.12.14 00:46:00 -
[5] - Quote
DAMIOS82 wrote:Quote:The money that is being invested in this game will only be used to add more features that will demand a player give CCP their money to stay competitive And thus continue to support the game, see how that circle works. Plus it was mentioned since the closed beta times that they where looking into implementing a feature or bonus for those that support this game aka buy stuff with real money. But it has only come out now in the form of loyalty ranks. Offcourse there was allready the early use of aurum gear. And in the future you can expect more of these things. CCP does love all there gamer children, just some more then others....
adding p2w features on top of p2w features doesn't mean supporting the game, it means making corporate wallets fatter.
A video game like dust requires x amount of items that demand real money and these x amount of items will produce y amount of revenue.
Older examples of these were perishable. Aurum gear, boosters etc.
Loyalty ranks and apex suits are not perishable
Strongboxes are perishable and they offer rare items only obtainable through strongboxes. The devious trick is that statistically the only people getting these rare items will be paying for them.
Loyalty ranks being like something they wanted to do back when the game was young does not make it okay.
Dust 5/14
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Z3dog
BIG BAD W0LVES
60
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Posted - 2014.12.14 00:57:00 -
[6] - Quote
TEBOW BAGGINS wrote:just be glad you arent paying a monthly sub fee.. if you really need access to a shiny trinket system then just pay. and no i haven't payed since 2013, the same year i stopped caring about being competitive in dust.. i atually think it's cool that there is something now to spend my aurum on besides boosters if i do buy aurum again. all free games have micro transactions-welcome to 2014.
So you admit that you've stopped caring about being competitive in dust and it coincides with when you stopped paying into the game?
Not all free games have micro transactions.
Micro transactions in free to play games are not unique to the year 2014.
Dust 5/14
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Z3dog
BIG BAD W0LVES
60
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Posted - 2014.12.14 01:06:00 -
[7] - Quote
VAHZZ wrote:ok, I get what you are saying here and I agree. But, you have to understand one thing.
Money talks, and it says "make me feeeeel good."
Do you want CCP to ignore the talking money? If they do that, it is a clear crime and they could go to wallet jail, and believe me, YOU DO NOT WANT TO GO TO WALLET JAIL. It is a giant tease! Let CCP listen to the talking money ok. If money gives wallet warriors perks, it's because they paid for it. I don't want to pay and still get the same crap i can get for I$K.
Yes yes don't question someones motives for driving disparity between paying players and non paying players. Good good.
"They paid for it"
YES that's the problem.
Dust 5/14
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Z3dog
BIG BAD W0LVES
61
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Posted - 2014.12.14 01:14:00 -
[8] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:Z3dog wrote:Megaman Trigger wrote:I'll have to argue against points 1 and 2 to a degree. The ranking can go up just by logging in, winning games etc with no need to buy Aurum. Likewise, Apex suits can be earned in Factional Warfare. Aurum just makes them easier.
A bigger point would be Boosters and the lack of an ISK variant, even if it was a lesser variant. The ranking CAN go up just be logging in, winning games etc. The point is someone who doesn't buy Aurum has no chance of competing with someone who does. Apex suits CAN be earned in factional warfare, however it is difficult to extremely difficult depending on what faction you're fighting for. Meanwhile a wallet warrior can not only get one apex suit instantaneously, they can get many across all classes and all races. Regarding your first point, I have to disagree about non-AUR players having no advantage over AUR players. Player A who never spent AUR can still beat the crap out of Player B (who spend AUR) just by using ISK-variant gear in a given match. AUR doesn't guarantee a win. Regarding your second point, I agree. But here comes the "BUT". I have encountered matches in FW where the Gallente and Minmatar would get their asses handed to them by the Amarr and Caldari. These kind of matches, ever since 1.10 came around, are no longer rare from the looks of it. It can depend on the time of day as well. In my case, since I live in the US EST, I see Gallente and Minmatar winning a lot in the day but then get stomped on their faces late at night by the opposing factions. I would know as I have had to grind a lot to get the Federation 'Serpent' Scout. I'm going for the Republic 'Tiger' Scout now but even now in the day time I'm encountering stiff opposition coming from the Amarr side. But overall, I never spent a single AUR to get my faction-variant APEX suit. I feel better and more accomplished getting the faction-variant APEX despite being able to afford the AUR-variant APEX right from the start.
Yes they CAN beat them. Player A had to work and skill into their equipment. Player B did not. Nobody is arguing AUR guarantees a win.
Dust 5/14
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Z3dog
BIG BAD W0LVES
61
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Posted - 2014.12.14 01:25:00 -
[9] - Quote
Stevez Wingyip wrote:Z3dog wrote:The ranking system: which benefits aurum buyers (wallet warriors) by giving them perks.
Apex suits: which allow wallet warriors to run prototype suits for free.
Strongboxes: Keys are much rarer than strongboxes and the only way to keep up is to buy aurum. An aurum buyer has access to much more loot than someone who doesn't. Also it is essentially gambling.
Notice a pattern?
Wallet Warriors will defend this by saying they are supporting the games development. That its okay because it will lead to new features being added to the game that will be fun for everyone and that their unreasonable advantages are only temporary, or so minor nobody will even notice, or maybe that they deserve to be rewarded more because they are so "obviously" more passionate about this game.
The money that is being invested in this game will only be used to add more features that will demand a player give CCP their money to stay competitive. This is a FTP game and you are whining at a company for trying to make money? See where I am going with this?
Where did I say that CCP shouldn't try to make money. You should have read the OP. See where I am going with this?
Dust 5/14
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Z3dog
BIG BAD W0LVES
61
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Posted - 2014.12.14 01:32:00 -
[10] - Quote
Joseph Ridgeson wrote:I never understood why people say "APEX suits are FREE Prototype!" I am fairly sure you can build a Basic Suit with Complex Modules better than an APEX suit because of their non-optimal fitting and Standard quality gear.
You pay isk for dying in the basic suit with complex modules. You don't pay any isk for dying in the apex suit.
You pay to put the complex modules on the basic suit and you pay for the basic suit itself as it is used.
You don't pay for the prototype dropsuit and its standard equipment as it is used.
Dust 5/14
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Z3dog
BIG BAD W0LVES
61
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Posted - 2014.12.14 01:34:00 -
[11] - Quote
Megaman Trigger wrote:Z3dog wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:Z3dog wrote:Megaman Trigger wrote:I'll have to argue against points 1 and 2 to a degree. The ranking can go up just by logging in, winning games etc with no need to buy Aurum. Likewise, Apex suits can be earned in Factional Warfare. Aurum just makes them easier.
A bigger point would be Boosters and the lack of an ISK variant, even if it was a lesser variant. The ranking CAN go up just be logging in, winning games etc. The point is someone who doesn't buy Aurum has no chance of competing with someone who does. Apex suits CAN be earned in factional warfare, however it is difficult to extremely difficult depending on what faction you're fighting for. Meanwhile a wallet warrior can not only get one apex suit instantaneously, they can get many across all classes and all races. Regarding your first point, I have to disagree about non-AUR players having no advantage over AUR players. Player A who never spent AUR can still beat the crap out of Player B (who spend AUR) just by using ISK-variant gear in a given match. AUR doesn't guarantee a win. Regarding your second point, I agree. But here comes the "BUT". I have encountered matches in FW where the Gallente and Minmatar would get their asses handed to them by the Amarr and Caldari. These kind of matches, ever since 1.10 came around, are no longer rare from the looks of it. It can depend on the time of day as well. In my case, since I live in the US EST, I see Gallente and Minmatar winning a lot in the day but then get stomped on their faces late at night by the opposing factions. I would know as I have had to grind a lot to get the Federation 'Serpent' Scout. I'm going for the Republic 'Tiger' Scout now but even now in the day time I'm encountering stiff opposition coming from the Amarr side. But overall, I never spent a single AUR to get my faction-variant APEX suit. I feel better and more accomplished getting the faction-variant APEX despite being able to afford the AUR-variant APEX right from the start. Yes they CAN beat them. Player A had to work and skill into their equipment. Player B did not. Nobody is arguing AUR guarantees a win. Give that the APEX suits are most basic tier racial that's available in the Loyalty Store, skilling isn't necessary. Earning, yes, but not skilling.
Neither earning nor skilling is necessary to obtain the apex suit.
Dust 5/14
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Z3dog
BIG BAD W0LVES
61
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Posted - 2014.12.14 01:43:00 -
[12] - Quote
Megaman Trigger wrote:Z3dog wrote:Megaman Trigger wrote:I'll have to argue against points 1 and 2 to a degree. The ranking can go up just by logging in, winning games etc with no need to buy Aurum. Likewise, Apex suits can be earned in Factional Warfare. Aurum just makes them easier.
A bigger point would be Boosters and the lack of an ISK variant, even if it was a lesser variant. The ranking CAN go up just be logging in, winning games etc. The point is someone who doesn't buy Aurum has no chance of competing with someone who does. Apex suits CAN be earned in factional warfare, however it is difficult to extremely difficult depending on what faction you're fighting for. Meanwhile a wallet warrior can not only get one apex suit instantaneously, they can get many across all classes and all races. As I said, Aurum only makes it easier. Less P2W, more P2GetThereFaster. Besides, Apex BPO are Proto Suits loaded with Basic and Milita racial gear. A Basic ISK brought suit can go toe to toe and still match it.
If you payed to get there faster then you payed to get there before someone else and if you payed to get there before someone else then you payed to beat them.
Dust 5/14
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