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ADAM-OF-EVE Dead Man's Game RUST415 1718	Posted - 2014.12.13 19:27:00 - [1] - Quote its time to get this implemented. kdr means nothing these days. its time it was replaced with isk/aur destroyed/lost as this is the key stat everyone bases their gameplay on anyway. i am seeing and hearing a lot of "i killed more people so i should get more isk" bot on here and in game. how do you measure success. for me its: 1)winning 2) staying isk positive and at all times making sure the other team loses as much isk as possible and more of it than me. often i come against full proto teams and even though they often win they lose stupid amounts of isk. as most players who do it have large amounts of isk this loss is in the back of the mind and they focus on what they are not getting in the reward. its time this figure is brought to the front and perhaps its loss which should be the determining factor of a successful fight not how many kills you got All Hail Legion
Atiim Titans of Phoenix 14421	Posted - 2014.12.13 19:33:00 - [2] - Quote Or you could just add ISK Destroyed/Lost stats and leave K/D. I'll never understand why people want to remove the K/D stat when this is a PvP game (and an FPS at that.) Is it because you're embarrassed about your K/D ratio being lower than you want it to be? If so, then you should lighten up a bit. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
ADAM-OF-EVE Dead Man's Game RUST415 1719	Posted - 2014.12.13 19:36:00 - [3] - Quote Atiim wrote: Or you could just add ISK Destroyed/Lost stats and leave K/D. I'll never understand why people want to remove the K/D stat when this is a PvP game (and an FPS at that.) Is it because you're embarrassed about your K/D ratio being lower than you want it to be? If so, then you should lighten up a bit. because the ultimate goal is to win and earn isk. kdr does not affect these 2 outcomes and gives players a false view of what success is All Hail Legion
Atiim Titans of Phoenix 14422	Posted - 2014.12.13 19:41:00 - [4] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: because the ultimate goal is to win and earn isk. kdr does not affect these 2 outcomes and gives players a false view of what success is Actually, K/D does have an effect on the outcome of the match. If you kill a lot of players and die only once or twice, you're far more likely to win the match as you're destroying clones at a faster rate than the enemy. And vice versa; dying a lot of times but only killing a few people makes you less likely to win as your clones are being depleted faster than the enemy. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
ADAM-OF-EVE Dead Man's Game RUST415 1719	Posted - 2014.12.13 19:45:00 - [5] - Quote Atiim wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: because the ultimate goal is to win and earn isk. kdr does not affect these 2 outcomes and gives players a false view of what success is Actually, K/D does have an effect on the outcome of the match. If you kill a lot of players and die only once or twice, you're far more likely to win the match as you're destroying clones at a faster rate than the enemy. And vice versa; dying a lot of times but only killing a few people makes you less likely to win as your clones are being depleted faster than the enemy. lets say you kill 20 clones and don't die and a logi bro revives 20 players. all your effort was for nothing. lets say you destroy 2mil isk. that isk is a finite resource removed from the game. i dont care about losing a clone. i care about losing isk. players being confronted constantly with their isk loss will eventually improve. we can see this with kdr but ultimately isk has more of an effect on how people play than kdr does All Hail Legion
Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 1960	Posted - 2014.12.13 19:51:00 - [6] - Quote I like kd and ISK lost. Btw kd does somewhat matter. Following attim Here, cloning out in a skirm is a favorite tactic. Letting them keep one objective and funneling them into a meat grinder is awesome. Delt for CPM2 CPM1 MISSION : FAILED Moss-delt on skype
PARKOUR PRACTIONER G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 2319	Posted - 2014.12.13 20:06:00 - [7] - Quote Keep KDR and also display ISK lost. Though i would have a real hard time playing know how much ISK ive lost, but then it probably make me a better player. So thats what your getting at? Keep KDR and display ISK lost as well. KDR is very important (for some reason) in FPS games. PSN Sil4ntChaozz I am the NINJA no one sees and if seen killed with ease If HP were all, heavy would not fear scout.
ADAM-OF-EVE Dead Man's Game RUST415 1721	Posted - 2014.12.13 20:07:00 - [8] - Quote i have seen plenty of high kdrs on losing teams. does that account to success. when you win does your high kdr mean you did more than the guy who dies many times and earns less wp but kept the objective capped. in an even match does it matter to the losing team that they lost combined 5mil isk or that you the winners lost 10mil isk. kdr is highlighted as the defining stat on the end of battle report yet it is the less important than stats which are not included. a high kdr at the expense of huge isk losses is not a strength especially when the reward is a fraction of your expenses. sry keep kdr but it should not be a defining factor of the end of battle report All Hail Legion
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 2315	Posted - 2014.12.13 20:10:00 - [9] - Quote Atiim wrote: Or you could just add ISK Destroyed/Lost stats and leave K/D. I'll never understand why people want to remove the K/D stat when this is a PvP game (and an FPS at that.) Is it because you're embarrassed about your K/D ratio being lower than you want it to be? If so, then you should lighten up a bit as most players are impressed more with ability than stats. It has less to do with embarrassment (really, anyone who is embarrassed about something as trival as KDR in a game needs to reevaluate their lives and should potentially consider biomassing IRL) and more to do with disarming immature teenagers who think KDR > Everything Ever Dust514/Legion should be a(n): [_] Arcade Lobby Shooter [X] Sci-fi Military Sim
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 2317	Posted - 2014.12.13 20:19:00 - [10] - Quote Atiim wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: because the ultimate goal is to win and earn isk. kdr does not affect these 2 outcomes and gives players a false view of what success is Actually, K/D does have an effect on the outcome of the match. If you kill a lot of players and die only once or twice, you're far more likely to win the match as you're destroying clones at a faster rate than the enemy. And vice versa; dying a lot of times but only killing a few people makes you less likely to win as your clones are being depleted faster than the enemy. What if I am a logi that keeps dying but getting picked up? What if I am bait? Hey you!! Yeah, you dumbasses over there!! Pay attention to me!! Theres no one running for the objective, look over this way!! I probably die a bunch, but I am contributing to my team by pulling people off the objective. While Team KDR might have an impact on the outcome, Individual KDR is often highly overrated. Dust514/Legion should be a(n): [_] Arcade Lobby Shooter [X] Sci-fi Military Sim

Silver Strike44 269	Posted - 2014.12.13 20:23:00 - [11] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: Atiim wrote: Or you could just add ISK Destroyed/Lost stats and leave K/D. I'll never understand why people want to remove the K/D stat when this is a PvP game (and an FPS at that.) Is it because you're embarrassed about your K/D ratio being lower than you want it to be? If so, then you should lighten up a bit. because the ultimate goal is to win and earn isk. kdr does not affect these 2 outcomes and gives players a false view of what success is. kdr says you are a good killer there is no doubt in that. knowing that someone spent 2mil isk for that kdr over someone else who spent 200k isk for a similar kdr says a lot about both those players and gets players thinking about how well they are really playing in dust. kdr is deceptive. isk stats are more accurate Like Atiim said, kill to death ratio should never be removed; there is no reason for it to be. You can say that the ultimate goal is to gain ISK, but this isnt necessarily true for everyone. Just because you are trying to make ISK doesnt mean everybody is. I dont really care about ISK much anymore because I have enough to support running proto suits for a very long time. I do worry about k/d as it is one of the few things I can almost always control. I cant force the enemy to run expensive suits and lose large sums of ISK. I cant always secure a win because I cant make my teammates not suck. I can get kills and avoid deaths pretty well if our team isnt being absolutely stomped. I am a proto user and a k/d *****, but so what, there are much worse things and I still help the team while getting kills and avoiding death. www.nickmunsonisjesus.com
Heimdallr69 Nyain San General Tso's Alliance 3894	Posted - 2014.12.13 20:23:00 - [12] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: Atiim wrote: Or you could just add ISK Destroyed/Lost stats and leave K/D. I'll never understand why people want to remove the K/D stat when this is a PvP game (and an FPS at that.) Is it because you're embarrassed about your K/D ratio being lower than you want it to be? If so, then you should lighten up a bit. because the ultimate goal is to win and earn isk. kdr does not affect these 2 outcomes and gives players a false view of what success is. kdr says you are a good killer there is no doubt in that. knowing that someone spent 2mil isk for that kdr over someone else who spent 200k isk for a similar kdr says a lot about both those players and gets players thinking about how well they are really playing in dust. kdr is deceptive. isk stats are more accurate Kdr is still important, if you go 1-20 but have 2k war points but we end up losing by clones then that's on you. You don't win by war points or by how much ISK you destroy, both of those stats can be farmed. KDR is very important, you shouldn't throw your deaths around then blame your team when you get cloned out. Now you don't need any higher than an even KDR but you shouldn't be going negative. And don't say logis, any decent logi can get that many war points without dying a lot. Removed inappropriate content - CCP Logibro
jane stalin Ametat Security Amarr Empire 48	Posted - 2014.12.13 20:31:00 - [13] - Quote I would like some extra pages in the battle report One page with ISK lost / destroyed One page with highest meta level used.
ADAM-OF-EVE Dead Man's Game RUST415 1723	Posted - 2014.12.13 20:35:00 - [14] - Quote i think thats wrong, if it all comes down to kdr and wp being the most important things then what's the point of rest of the intricases of the game, we should all just be in cod like setups with no risk of loss at all. a lot of players have so much isk that isk loss is far in the back of their minds because to them kdr is the main stat and this is enforced as it is shoved in the players face constantly at every battle. to bring the loss to the front of every battle report would have players having to confront their bad play styles every game and hopefully improve the game to a point where isk payouts can be fixed. as it stands players are happy to lose 2mil+ per battle and receive only 200k reward because they don't see the negative impact on their wallet constantly. what they do see is a positive impact every time on their kdr. this is a false account of their performance as its performance at the expense of huge losses All Hail Legion
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 20169	Posted - 2014.12.13 20:40:00 - [15] - Quote Requesting ISK stats is one thing. Demanding the removal of KDR is another. Does yours embarass you? Sometimes, one just has an overwhelming urge to throw a potato at someone.
Heimdallr69 Nyain San General Tso's Alliance 3895	Posted - 2014.12.13 20:49:00 - [16] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: i have seen plenty of high kdrs on losing teams. does that account to success. when you win does your high kdr mean you did more than the guy who dies many times and earns less wp but kept the objective capped. in an even match does it matter to the losing team that they lost combined 5mil isk or that you the winners lost 10mil isk. kdr is highlighted as the defining stat on the end of battle report yet it is the less important than stats which are not included. a high kdr at the expense of huge isk losses is not a strength especially when the reward is a fraction of your expenses. sry keep kdr but it should not be a defining factor of the end of battle report No one here is saying it should be but we are saying KDR should not be removed. Not matter what you say but a game that involves a number of deaths a team can have then KDR matters. And if half your team is afk and you get a good KDR but lose are you really going to say he lost cuz he cared about his KDR too much without even relizing he was the only one trying? Also I've lost billions from messing around making corps and ****. What I spend my isk on now shouldn't concern you. Removed inappropriate content - CCP Logibro
ADAM-OF-EVE Dead Man's Game RUST415 1724	Posted - 2014.12.13 20:50:00 - [17] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Requesting ISK stats is one thing. Demanding the removal of KDR is another. Does yours embarass you? i'm a logi i have little need for kdr yet often get a high kdr in a match from stray assists. does that make me a killer who benefitted the team. no it doesnt. my kdr often belonged to someone else. what did count to my team is me saving clones and isk while protecting my team members so they can reduce the enemys clones and isk. what doesnt matter is a kdr that is based on killing players and not killing clones All Hail Legion
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 3114	Posted - 2014.12.13 21:13:00 - [18] - Quote K/D means nothing. Prime examples: Me, Duna "Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.
Kalante Schiffer Ancient Exiles. 846	Posted - 2014.12.13 21:17:00 - [19] - Quote i like more to see war points and kills as to how much action the player was doing. My noobs could lose over 2 million isk in suits but if they pushed the objective i don't care how many times but they got it and managed to hold it for at least one minute and won the game because of it they did their damn job well done. I don't care how much isk they lost. Isk lost means nothing. AE.
fear blood moon KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 22	Posted - 2014.12.13 21:22:00 - [20] - Quote Atiim wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: because the ultimate goal is to win and earn isk. kdr does not affect these 2 outcomes and gives players a false view of what success is Actually, K/D does have an effect on the outcome of the match. If you kill a lot of players and die only once or twice, you're far more likely to win the match as you're destroying clones at a faster rate than the enemy. And vice versa; dying a lot of times but only killing a few people makes you less likely to win as your clones are being depleted faster than the enemy. yes.... yes.... me suiciding into the enemy lines with my minmatar assault shotgunner with more than 700 hp running at 9.7 m/s costing 30k a suit is worth it ;3 he talks about being isk positive, I will die 13 times in a game and lose 390k isk, but I drop links and kill 30+ sometimes even 40+ people doing that and my payout will be 400-600k isk for the game... who cares about saving a few pennies when you can play super hard and get rewarded for it..

Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5465	Posted - 2014.12.13 21:36:00 - [21] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: its time to get this implemented. kdr means nothing these days. its time it was replaced with isk/aur destroyed/lost as this is the key stat everyone bases their gameplay on anyway. i am seeing and hearing a lot of "i killed more people so i should get more isk" bot on here and in game. how do you measure success. for me its: 1)winning 2) staying isk positive and at all times making sure the other team loses as much isk as possible and more of it than me. often i come against full proto teams and even though they often win they lose stupid amounts of isk. as most players who do it have large amounts of isk this loss is in the back of the mind and they focus on what they are not getting in the reward. its time this figure is brought to the front and perhaps its loss which should be the determining factor of a successful fight not how many kills you got edit : i do not mean remove kdr. i just don't think it should be a defining factor on the end of battle report I think we should take away guns and give everyone library books. Only4-5KDRpubbiesCanRunADV24/7\|PCplyrsRunPRO&smashSTD/MLTplyrs24/7. ThisIsHowIt'sAlwaysBeen,ThereforeMustStayThisWay.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. 2655	Posted - 2014.12.13 21:42:00 - [22] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: i have seen plenty of high kdrs on losing teams. does that account to success. when you win does your high kdr mean you did more than the guy who dies many times and earns less wp but kept the objective capped. in an even match does it matter to the losing team that they lost combined 5mil isk or that you the winners lost 10mil isk. kdr is highlighted as the defining stat on the end of battle report yet it is the less important than stats which are not included. a high kdr at the expense of huge isk losses is not a strength especially when the reward is a fraction of your expenses. sry keep kdr but it should not be a defining factor of the end of battle report People who say KDR doesn't have or play a role in DUST are people who have only spent times playing Pubs. It matters for PC corps and has always mattered because it measured how many clones you kill versus how many you loose. This had value because it actually meant more payout for everyone as we had more clones for sale. at the end. It measures up still to this day with PC corps because it gives you abilities to push a clone pack of 120 clones and take a district with loosing less then 20 clones in consecutive matches for said district. The only reason KDR become a stats people where pushing to get high was the requirement to get in Said PC corporations... the rest is just people jumping on the bandwagon since. In Chromosome for example it was all about who had the most kills so their name was highest on the leaderboards.
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries 3563	Posted - 2014.12.13 22:40:00 - [23] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: Atiim wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: because the ultimate goal is to win and earn isk. kdr does not affect these 2 outcomes and gives players a false view of what success is Actually, K/D does have an effect on the outcome of the match. If you kill a lot of players and die only once or twice, you're far more likely to win the match as you're destroying clones at a faster rate than the enemy. And vice versa; dying a lot of times but only killing a few people makes you less likely to win as your clones are being depleted faster than the enemy. lets say you kill 20 clones and don't die and a logi bro revives 20 players. all your effort was for nothing. lets say you destroy 2mil isk. that isk is a finite resource removed from the game. i dont care about losing a clone. i care about losing isk. players being confronted constantly with their isk loss will eventually improve. we can see this with kdr but ultimately isk has more of an effect on how people play than kdr does Moot....if that same logibro revives those 20 players, then you don't lose ISK at all! So, that stat will not tell the whole story. I'm a brauler....wins = success. ISK lost is meaningless. I call in $200K vehicles in the middle of the road just for distraction. > Check RND out here
hfderrtgvcd 1525	Posted - 2014.12.13 22:42:00 - [24] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: Atiim wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: because the ultimate goal is to win and earn isk. kdr does not affect these 2 outcomes and gives players a false view of what success is Actually, K/D does have an effect on the outcome of the match. If you kill a lot of players and die only once or twice, you're far more likely to win the match as you're destroying clones at a faster rate than the enemy. And vice versa; dying a lot of times but only killing a few people makes you less likely to win as your clones are being depleted faster than the enemy. lets say you kill 20 clones and don't die and a logi bro revives 20 players. all your effort was for nothing. lets say you destroy 2mil isk. that isk is a finite resource removed from the game. i dont care about losing a clone. i care about losing isk. players being confronted constantly with their isk loss will eventually improve. we can see this with kdr but ultimately isk has more of an effect on how people play than kdr does Moot....if that same logibro revives those 20 players, then you don't lose ISK at all! So, that stat will not tell the whole story. I'm a brauler....wins = success. ISK lost is meaningless. I call in $200K vehicles in the middle of the road just for distraction. since you have so much isk ... could I have some? You can't fight in here! This is the war room.
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries 3563	Posted - 2014.12.13 22:49:00 - [25] - Quote hfderrtgvcd wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: Atiim wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: because the ultimate goal is to win and earn isk. kdr does not affect these 2 outcomes and gives players a false view of what success is Actually, K/D does have an effect on the outcome of the match. If you kill a lot of players and die only once or twice, you're far more likely to win the match as you're destroying clones at a faster rate than the enemy. And vice versa; dying a lot of times but only killing a few people makes you less likely to win as your clones are being depleted faster than the enemy. lets say you kill 20 clones and don't die and a logi bro revives 20 players. all your effort was for nothing. lets say you destroy 2mil isk. that isk is a finite resource removed from the game. i dont care about losing a clone. i care about losing isk. players being confronted constantly with their isk loss will eventually improve. we can see this with kdr but ultimately isk has more of an effect on how people play than kdr does Moot....if that same logibro revives those 20 players, then you don't lose ISK at all! So, that stat will not tell the whole story. I'm a brauler....wins = success. ISK lost is meaningless. I call in $200K vehicles in the middle of the road just for distraction. since you have so much isk ... could I have some? I'll trade you some strongboxes > Check RND out here
hfderrtgvcd 1526	Posted - 2014.12.13 22:51:00 - [26] - Quote lol. thanks bud You can't fight in here! This is the war room.
Cavani1EE7 Murphys-Law 597	Posted - 2014.12.13 23:05:00 - [27] - Quote Sounds like QQ Take a bow
THUNDERGROOVE Fatal Absolution 1234	Posted - 2014.12.13 23:29:00 - [28] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: 2) staying isk positive And this mentaility is why the Minmatar Militia are crap. I mean, killing one 100M cruiser. But whelping a 25 man Talwar fleet. Good thing Amarr is T4 so I can run two missions in 10 minutes and pay for it lol. More like Titans of Penis amirite? Come play a better game.
ADAM-OF-EVE Dead Man's Game RUST415 1728	Posted - 2014.12.14 00:13:00 - [29] - Quote people are missing the point. we are meant to be mercs earning isk yet a large portion of the playerbase plays for a huge isk loss every match and complains that they don't get enough isk rewards for the amount of kills or wp they acquire. fact is they are not playing to the reward which in a pub match is around 200k-500k isk. i always leave a match isk positive every time. i'm not chasing profit. i'm sticking to the match boundaries. this is because i am less concerned about being the top killer/WP and more concerned with trying to win the match. winning the match by default i.e purposely trying to clone out the other team so you dont have to put any effort into the battle is a **** poor effort at a win. besides i am not trying to remove kdr. i want it replaced on the end of battle report with isk lost/killed as the primary stat. i dont care if they put kdr elsewhere but they should shrink it down to minimise its importance and isk loss shoved in everyones faces to show them how good/bad they truly are. All Hail Legion
Silver Strike44 270	Posted - 2014.12.14 00:37:00 - [30] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: people are missing the point. we are meant to be mercs earning isk yet a large portion of the playerbase plays for a huge isk loss every match and complains that they don't get enough isk rewards for the amount of kills or wp they acquire. fact is they are not playing to the reward which in a pub match is around 200k-500k isk. i always leave a match isk positive every time. i'm not chasing profit. i'm sticking to the match boundaries. this is because i am less concerned about being the top killer/WP and more concerned with trying to win the match. winning the match by default i.e purposely trying to clone out the other team so you dont have to put any effort into the battle is a **** poor effort at a win. besides i am not trying to remove kdr. i want it replaced on the end of battle report with isk lost/killed as the primary stat. i dont care if they put kdr elsewhere but they should shrink it down to minimise its importance and isk loss shoved in everyones faces to show them how good/bad they truly are. I think you are the one missing the point. People are trying to play the game the way they like playing it, no the way others think they should play it. www.nickmunsonisjesus.com



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