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ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game
RUST415
1718
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Posted - 2014.12.13 19:27:00 -
[1] - Quote
its time to get this implemented.
kdr means nothing these days. its time it was replaced with isk/aur destroyed/lost as this is the key stat everyone bases their gameplay on anyway.
i am seeing and hearing a lot of "i killed more people so i should get more isk" bot on here and in game.
how do you measure success. for me its:
1)winning
2) staying isk positive
and at all times making sure the other team loses as much isk as possible and more of it than me.
often i come against full proto teams and even though they often win they lose stupid amounts of isk. as most players who do it have large amounts of isk this loss is in the back of the mind and they focus on what they are not getting in the reward. its time this figure is brought to the front and perhaps its loss which should be the determining factor of a successful fight not how many kills you got
All Hail Legion
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ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game
RUST415
1719
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Posted - 2014.12.13 19:36:00 -
[2] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Or you could just add ISK Destroyed/Lost stats and leave K/D.
I'll never understand why people want to remove the K/D stat when this is a PvP game (and an FPS at that.) Is it because you're embarrassed about your K/D ratio being lower than you want it to be? If so, then you should lighten up a bit.
because the ultimate goal is to win and earn isk. kdr does not affect these 2 outcomes and gives players a false view of what success is
All Hail Legion
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ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game
RUST415
1719
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Posted - 2014.12.13 19:45:00 -
[3] - Quote
Atiim wrote:ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:because the ultimate goal is to win and earn isk. kdr does not affect these 2 outcomes and gives players a false view of what success is Actually, K/D does have an effect on the outcome of the match. If you kill a lot of players and die only once or twice, you're far more likely to win the match as you're destroying clones at a faster rate than the enemy. And vice versa; dying a lot of times but only killing a few people makes you less likely to win as your clones are being depleted faster than the enemy.
lets say you kill 20 clones and don't die and a logi bro revives 20 players. all your effort was for nothing. lets say you destroy 2mil isk. that isk is a finite resource removed from the game. i dont care about losing a clone. i care about losing isk. players being confronted constantly with their isk loss will eventually improve. we can see this with kdr but ultimately isk has more of an effect on how people play than kdr does
All Hail Legion
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ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game
RUST415
1721
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Posted - 2014.12.13 20:07:00 -
[4] - Quote
i have seen plenty of high kdrs on losing teams. does that account to success. when you win does your high kdr mean you did more than the guy who dies many times and earns less wp but kept the objective capped. in an even match does it matter to the losing team that they lost combined 5mil isk or that you the winners lost 10mil isk.
kdr is highlighted as the defining stat on the end of battle report yet it is the less important than stats which are not included.
a high kdr at the expense of huge isk losses is not a strength especially when the reward is a fraction of your expenses.
sry keep kdr but it should not be a defining factor of the end of battle report
All Hail Legion
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ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game
RUST415
1723
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Posted - 2014.12.13 20:35:00 -
[5] - Quote
i think thats wrong, if it all comes down to kdr and wp being the most important things then what's the point of rest of the intricases of the game, we should all just be in cod like setups with no risk of loss at all.
a lot of players have so much isk that isk loss is far in the back of their minds because to them kdr is the main stat and this is enforced as it is shoved in the players face constantly at every battle. to bring the loss to the front of every battle report would have players having to confront their bad play styles every game and hopefully improve the game to a point where isk payouts can be fixed. as it stands players are happy to lose 2mil+ per battle and receive only 200k reward because they don't see the negative impact on their wallet constantly. what they do see is a positive impact every time on their kdr. this is a false account of their performance as its performance at the expense of huge losses
All Hail Legion
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ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game
RUST415
1724
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Posted - 2014.12.13 20:50:00 -
[6] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Requesting ISK stats is one thing.
Demanding the removal of KDR is another. Does yours embarass you?
i'm a logi i have little need for kdr yet often get a high kdr in a match from stray assists. does that make me a killer who benefitted the team. no it doesnt. my kdr often belonged to someone else. what did count to my team is me saving clones and isk while protecting my team members so they can reduce the enemys clones and isk.
what doesnt matter is a kdr that is based on killing players and not killing clones
All Hail Legion
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ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game
RUST415
1728
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Posted - 2014.12.14 00:13:00 -
[7] - Quote
people are missing the point. we are meant to be mercs earning isk yet a large portion of the playerbase plays for a huge isk loss every match and complains that they don't get enough isk rewards for the amount of kills or wp they acquire. fact is they are not playing to the reward which in a pub match is around 200k-500k isk.
i always leave a match isk positive every time. i'm not chasing profit. i'm sticking to the match boundaries. this is because i am less concerned about being the top killer/WP and more concerned with trying to win the match. winning the match by default i.e purposely trying to clone out the other team so you dont have to put any effort into the battle is a **** poor effort at a win.
besides i am not trying to remove kdr. i want it replaced on the end of battle report with isk lost/killed as the primary stat. i dont care if they put kdr elsewhere but they should shrink it down to minimise its importance and isk loss shoved in everyones faces to show them how good/bad they truly are.
All Hail Legion
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ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game
RUST415
1729
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Posted - 2014.12.14 00:41:00 -
[8] - Quote
Silver Strike44 wrote:ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:people are missing the point. we are meant to be mercs earning isk yet a large portion of the playerbase plays for a huge isk loss every match and complains that they don't get enough isk rewards for the amount of kills or wp they acquire. fact is they are not playing to the reward which in a pub match is around 200k-500k isk.
i always leave a match isk positive every time. i'm not chasing profit. i'm sticking to the match boundaries. this is because i am less concerned about being the top killer/WP and more concerned with trying to win the match. winning the match by default i.e purposely trying to clone out the other team so you dont have to put any effort into the battle is a **** poor effort at a win.
besides i am not trying to remove kdr. i want it replaced on the end of battle report with isk lost/killed as the primary stat. i dont care if they put kdr elsewhere but they should shrink it down to minimise its importance and isk loss shoved in everyones faces to show them how good/bad they truly are. I think you are the one missing the point. People are trying to play the game the way they like playing it, no the way others think they should play it.
im not telling people not to play how they want. i just want them to know just how good or bad they are playing while hiding behind that KDR smokescreen
All Hail Legion
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ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game
RUST415
1730
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Posted - 2014.12.14 01:07:00 -
[9] - Quote
Heimdallr69 wrote:ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:Silver Strike44 wrote:ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:people are missing the point. we are meant to be mercs earning isk yet a large portion of the playerbase plays for a huge isk loss every match and complains that they don't get enough isk rewards for the amount of kills or wp they acquire. fact is they are not playing to the reward which in a pub match is around 200k-500k isk.
i always leave a match isk positive every time. i'm not chasing profit. i'm sticking to the match boundaries. this is because i am less concerned about being the top killer/WP and more concerned with trying to win the match. winning the match by default i.e purposely trying to clone out the other team so you dont have to put any effort into the battle is a **** poor effort at a win.
besides i am not trying to remove kdr. i want it replaced on the end of battle report with isk lost/killed as the primary stat. i dont care if they put kdr elsewhere but they should shrink it down to minimise its importance and isk loss shoved in everyones faces to show them how good/bad they truly are. I think you are the one missing the point. People are trying to play the game the way they like playing it, no the way others think they should play it. im not telling people not to play how they want. i just want them to know just how good or bad they are playing while hiding behind that KDR smokescreen Lmao^ you just gave yourself away. You have a bad KDR so you want no one to have one so you won't feel bad anymore. I have friends with a 1 or lower KDR and I love playing with them Idgaf if you're good if you're a try hard or just want to have fun. I can fit in with any group and I enjoy it. We throw ISK around cuz we can we earned it and we have our suits fitted the way we like from PC not cuz we're hiding behind our KDR. We earned it.
i don't care about kdr as its a meaningless stat. i have revived far more players than i have ever killed, i have repaired far more than i have ever been damaged. my uplinks are imo 95% effective and my hives 100% effective, i save players more isk than i ever lose, i hack objectives and installation when i can. these are all important stats and imo more so than kdr yet all but the healing done are counted in the end of battle report and even that is not recorded outside of the fight yet kdr, a stat which is only relevant to some is the primary measuring stat on the end of battle report for success.
All Hail Legion
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ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game
RUST415
1731
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Posted - 2014.12.14 01:30:00 -
[10] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:
i don't care about kdr as its a meaningless stat. i have revived far more players than i have ever killed, i have repaired far more than i have ever been damaged. my uplinks are imo 95% effective and my hives 100% effective, i save players more isk than i ever lose, i hack objectives and installation when i can. these are all important stats and imo more so than kdr yet all but the healing done are counted in the end of battle report and even that is not recorded outside of the fight yet kdr, a stat which is only relevant to some is the primary measuring stat on the end of battle report for success.
I do all of those things that you are concerned about. When I'm pubbing, I do whatever it takes to win....I believe K/D is important but I'm not hard to find. I'm usually the first one at objectives. I spam links, I carry nanite injectors. I don't camp high ground and stay up there. I play to win but I also would like to know how well I did as far as gunning people down as well. The same people that are KDR whores who hand around high ground and are scared to go near objectives are probably the same ones worried about ISK loss.
the point i'm trying to make is some people are content with spamming as much isk as possible to get a high kdr, as far as the end of battle report is concerned they did really good. but behind the that high kdr and wp is a player who has lost millions of isk in a 200-500k isk fight and thinking they are awesome for doing it yet other players are spending much less and getting those same kdr's against them. pub matches is ripe with this. i see it all the time. i can walk away from a fight with a 200k isk profit knowing for fact that often the top player on the enemy side lost multiple 100k+ isk suits and left with a massively negative profit. this is not just pointless statistics this is vital statistics for finding not just good players but great players and gaining a more accurate view of performance for everyone
All Hail Legion
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ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game
RUST415
1731
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Posted - 2014.12.14 05:42:00 -
[11] - Quote
Jay Westen wrote:I dunno if it's the lack of nicotine in my system, or what but this erks me.
Isk destroyed vs Isk lost, isn't that the same as kdr, you're just changing the numbers that are reported...
Second, what about us logibros and it sounds like you're a logibro. You don't want Isk lost to be reported, considering we carry more gear into the battle than anyone else and get shot a lot. Plus I only skimmed your post since it's typically wall o text I didn't see if there was a stat for us. Like Isk saved vs Isk lost. If KDR is so useless then ignore it. Christ almighty.
Tl;Dr less QQ, more pew pew.
no its different. 10 losses for me could be 100k isk and the same 10 losses for the enemy could be 1 mil isk or vise versa and varying levels of cost. 1 loss for 1 is different than 1 loss for the other and the same goes for kills.
how many times have you taken out a full proto with a basic/standard weapon and thought wow thats going to hurt or been on the other end and thought no way that killed me. you cannot tell any of that from kdr. it gives more false readings than any other stat as you can steal kills easily without doing much damage.
yes im a logi but i'm not defenceless. this is just a start. as i said in another post there are other important stats also which are important and for us these would come into account. but ultimately you would still run a isk gain/loss as part of your performance. your not going to run 1mil isk worth of gear for a pub thats only going to reward half as much at best outcome. ultimately to know how much you killed and saved will give you a better performance report than the current kdr only system in place
All Hail Legion
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ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game
RUST415
1731
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Posted - 2014.12.14 06:05:00 -
[12] - Quote
ok lets get a few things straight here
no i do not want to remove kdr. i want it de-emphasised as the defining stat for performance in the end of battle report. instead i want isk won/lost/saved etc and other stats added which have a far more accurate reading of how the battle went than kdr which is inaccurate as it counts player kills and not clone kills.
kdr is only relevant to killers so no kills and you cannot be compared with anyone else while isk loss/win is relevant to everyone and can be compared on many levels
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