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Cat Merc Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 13777	Posted - 2014.12.12 23:54:00 - [31] - Quote Atiim wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Was fighting a Cal Scout. His shields recharged fully before I could reload my Plasma Rifle. Clearly shields are UP and need a buff. Of all the lies and fabrications within this thread, this is probably the most blatant. Cal Scouts can get quite scary regen. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++
Daddrobit You Can Call Me Daddy 1219	Posted - 2014.12.12 23:56:00 - [32] - Quote TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Was fighting a Cal Scout. His shields recharged fully before I could reload my Plasma Rifle. Clearly shields are UP and need a buff. You had to have missed them for around 5 seconds then. Not sure if actually that bad or lying to make a point... any damage including 0 damage and the shields stop resetting. They also take 3 seconds to begin recharging or 4 seconds if on delay assuming the guy had no extenders on. If you empty 36/60 PR rounds and didn't kill them you deserved to lose the encounter anyways. Less than two seconds to begin recharging with a regulator. Less than 3 if it's fully depleted. With two regulators it puts downtime at 1.2 and 1.8 respectively. One energizer puts regen at 87 per second. Reload speed on an AR is 3 seconds, so they do at least start recharging between regardless. With 2 shield extenders, it would take roughly 6 seconds from depleted to be full health again, (which admittedly isn't a lot of tank). So maybe not a single reload, but reload time plus the time to reacquire them in your sights? Definitely possible. But yeah, fighting Cal scouts who play ring around the rosy with cover is one of the single most frustrating things in the game from their regen potential. O.G. Pink Fluffy Bunny
Atiim Titans of Phoenix 14382	Posted - 2014.12.12 23:57:00 - [33] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Atiim wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Was fighting a Cal Scout. His shields recharged fully before I could reload my Plasma Rifle. Clearly shields are UP and need a buff. Of all the lies and fabrications within this thread, this is probably the most blatant. Cal Scouts can get quite scary regen. ... I thought it said Caldari Assaults. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Cat Merc Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 13777	Posted - 2014.12.12 23:58:00 - [34] - Quote Daddrobit wrote: But yeah, fighting Cal scouts who play ring around the rosy with cover is one of the single most frustrating things in the game from their regen potential. Good god this, this so much. Leave them for one moment and all the damage you did is gone. The running around the crate thing is so frustrating with them. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++
Cat Merc Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 13779	Posted - 2014.12.12 23:59:00 - [35] - Quote Atiim wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Atiim wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Was fighting a Cal Scout. His shields recharged fully before I could reload my Plasma Rifle. Clearly shields are UP and need a buff. Of all the lies and fabrications within this thread, this is probably the most blatant. Cal Scouts can get quite scary regen. ... I thought it said Caldari Assaults. lol Cal Assaults have very powerful regen, but not THAT powerful lmao Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++
TYCHUS MAXWELL The Fun Police 684	Posted - 2014.12.12 23:59:00 - [36] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: Doesn't change the fact that your example was an intentional misrepresentation . Leet skills or not you still prefaced this whole explanation with shields being UP a facetious claim, as you defined it by the fact that a cal scout could regen through your reload. Which wasn't even a true statement. It did though, I stopped his shield regen with my Ion Pistol, switched to my Plasma Rifle, reloaded, and he was already up. In what context it happened doesn't honestly matter. You admitted his shields weren't depleted, IE. he had a standard regen speed regardless of extenders + he wouldn't have to regen all that much if he wasn't depleted in the first place. That's tantamount to me shooting one rail shot at a gallente scout and complaining that his armor repaired before I even thought about reloading.
Cat Merc Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 13779	Posted - 2014.12.13 00:00:00 - [37] - Quote TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: Cat Merc wrote: TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: Doesn't change the fact that your example was an intentional misrepresentation . Leet skills or not you still prefaced this whole explanation with shields being UP a facetious claim, as you defined it by the fact that a cal scout could regen through your reload. Which wasn't even a true statement. It did though, I stopped his shield regen with my Ion Pistol, switched to my Plasma Rifle, reloaded, and he was already up. In what context it happened doesn't honestly matter. You admitted his shields weren't depleted, IE. he had a standard regen speed regardless of extenders + he wouldn't have to regen all that much if he wasn't depleted in the first place. That's literally an extra second. He would have had one less pulse of shields. And he was NEAR depleted, like so close if I had one more shot on my IoP I could finish what's left of his shields + what's left of his armor in that single shot. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++
TYCHUS MAXWELL The Fun Police 684	Posted - 2014.12.13 00:01:00 - [38] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: Cat Merc wrote: TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: Doesn't change the fact that your example was an intentional misrepresentation . Leet skills or not you still prefaced this whole explanation with shields being UP a facetious claim, as you defined it by the fact that a cal scout could regen through your reload. Which wasn't even a true statement. It did though, I stopped his shield regen with my Ion Pistol, switched to my Plasma Rifle, reloaded, and he was already up. In what context it happened doesn't honestly matter. You admitted his shields weren't depleted, IE. he had a standard regen speed regardless of extenders + he wouldn't have to regen all that much if he wasn't depleted in the first place. That's literally an extra second. He would have had one less pulse of shields. and even less pulse of shields to reach his max as he wasn't depleted.
Cat Merc Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 13779	Posted - 2014.12.13 00:02:00 - [39] - Quote TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: Cat Merc wrote: TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: Cat Merc wrote: TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: Doesn't change the fact that your example was an intentional misrepresentation . Leet skills or not you still prefaced this whole explanation with shields being UP a facetious claim, as you defined it by the fact that a cal scout could regen through your reload. Which wasn't even a true statement. It did though, I stopped his shield regen with my Ion Pistol, switched to my Plasma Rifle, reloaded, and he was already up. In what context it happened doesn't honestly matter. You admitted his shields weren't depleted, IE. he had a standard regen speed regardless of extenders + he wouldn't have to regen all that much if he wasn't depleted in the first place. That's literally an extra second. He would have had one less pulse of shields. and even less pulse of shields to reach his max as he wasn't depleted. Read the edit, I didn't notice you mentioned that he wasn't depleted. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++
Denchlad 7 Dead Man's Game 1368	Posted - 2014.12.13 00:02:00 - [40] - Quote As I've always said, Shields < Armor. Not because they're not balanced, they are pretty well balanced on paper. However, the majority of fights in game are CQC. On Manus Peak for example (one of the most open maps) my Cal Assault is lovely with a Rail Rifle, against armor tanks. However, build a CQC fit for it and its outclassed by Armor, which makes sense, as shield fits are designed for longer ranges. And the issue here is the majority of fights are CQC, due to the nature of the sockets where objectives are. I still find my Shield suits better in Ambush, as there is a higher chance of open-field combat. The Repair Tool isn't considered though. Put a decent Rep Tool on any decent Armor-Tanker and its a nightmare, CQC or Long Range. I would love a Shield Repair Tool. Nowhere near as good as the current Armor Repair Tools, but enough to give Shield suits a decent chance. Allowing it - when attatched to a player - to deactivate Energizers/Rechargers/Regulators, for the sake of balance, could be cool. Not so strong that it balances CQC to 50/50, but enough to make Shields always superior at range, and maintain Armor always being superior CQC. The Connoisseur of Weapons. 19/19 Level 5, 19/19 Proficiency 3. Excessively British. Tea is the drink of Gods.

TYCHUS MAXWELL The Fun Police 684	Posted - 2014.12.13 00:04:00 - [41] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: Cat Merc wrote: TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: Doesn't change the fact that your example was an intentional misrepresentation . Leet skills or not you still prefaced this whole explanation with shields being UP a facetious claim, as you defined it by the fact that a cal scout could regen through your reload. Which wasn't even a true statement. It did though, I stopped his shield regen with my Ion Pistol, switched to my Plasma Rifle, reloaded, and he was already up. In what context it happened doesn't honestly matter. You admitted his shields weren't depleted, IE. he had a standard regen speed regardless of extenders + he wouldn't have to regen all that much if he wasn't depleted in the first place. That's literally an extra second. He would have had one less pulse of shields. And he was NEAR depleted, like so close if I had one more shot on my IoP I could finish what's left of his shields + what's left of his armor in that single shot. do you remember what his shield total was? Because if he regened literally in the time it took you to reload a PR he must of only had about 200 shields and was stacked with rechargers which is a terrible example again that's like me complaining that a triple armor repped scout repped his armor to full after 1 shot from a rail rifle.
Cat Merc Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 13779	Posted - 2014.12.13 00:06:00 - [42] - Quote Denchlad 7 wrote: As I've always said, Shields < Armor. Not because they're not balanced, they are pretty well balanced on paper. However, the majority of fights in game are CQC. On Manus Peak for example (one of the most open maps) my Cal Assault is lovely with a Rail Rifle, against armor tanks. However, build a CQC fit for it and its outclassed by Armor, which makes sense, as shield fits are designed for longer ranges. And the issue here is the majority of fights are CQC, due to the nature of the sockets where objectives are. I still find my Shield suits better in Ambush, as there is a higher chance of open-field combat. The Repair Tool isn't considered though. Put a decent Rep Tool on any decent Armor-Tanker and its a nightmare, CQC or Long Range. I would love a Shield Repair Tool. Nowhere near as good as the current Armor Repair Tools, but enough to give Shield suits a decent chance. Allowing it - when attatched to a player - to deactivate Energizers/Rechargers/Regulators, for the sake of balance, could be cool. Not so strong that it balances CQC to 50/50, but enough to make Shields always superior at range, and maintain Armor always being superior CQC. Well, first about your CQC and long range point... It isn't really true. You are better suited for cover based CQC, armor is better suited for just assaulting your position and hoping you die before they die. CQC shields require regulators, long range shields can brick with plates. Then the rep tool, it's a useful tool to have when you get a breather, but when you are attacking someone, it's usually better to just have the Logi pull out his gun and do 4x the amount of damage he could repair. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++
Cat Merc Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 13779	Posted - 2014.12.13 00:07:00 - [43] - Quote TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: Cat Merc wrote: TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: Cat Merc wrote: TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: Doesn't change the fact that your example was an intentional misrepresentation . Leet skills or not you still prefaced this whole explanation with shields being UP a facetious claim, as you defined it by the fact that a cal scout could regen through your reload. Which wasn't even a true statement. It did though, I stopped his shield regen with my Ion Pistol, switched to my Plasma Rifle, reloaded, and he was already up. In what context it happened doesn't honestly matter. You admitted his shields weren't depleted, IE. he had a standard regen speed regardless of extenders + he wouldn't have to regen all that much if he wasn't depleted in the first place. That's literally an extra second. He would have had one less pulse of shields. And he was NEAR depleted, like so close if I had one more shot on my IoP I could finish what's left of his shields + what's left of his armor in that single shot. do you remember what his shield total was? Because if he regened literally in the time it took you to reload a PR he must of only had about 200 shields and was stacked with rechargers which is a terrible example again that's like me complaining that a triple armor repped scout repped his armor to full after 1 shot from a rail rifle. Around 400. He definitely had at least 3x extenders, I don't remember the exact number so I'm not sure if he had a fourth. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++
TYCHUS MAXWELL The Fun Police 684	Posted - 2014.12.13 00:07:00 - [44] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Denchlad 7 wrote: As I've always said, Shields < Armor. Not because they're not balanced, they are pretty well balanced on paper. However, the majority of fights in game are CQC. On Manus Peak for example (one of the most open maps) my Cal Assault is lovely with a Rail Rifle, against armor tanks. However, build a CQC fit for it and its outclassed by Armor, which makes sense, as shield fits are designed for longer ranges. And the issue here is the majority of fights are CQC, due to the nature of the sockets where objectives are. I still find my Shield suits better in Ambush, as there is a higher chance of open-field combat. The Repair Tool isn't considered though. Put a decent Rep Tool on any decent Armor-Tanker and its a nightmare, CQC or Long Range. I would love a Shield Repair Tool. Nowhere near as good as the current Armor Repair Tools, but enough to give Shield suits a decent chance. Allowing it - when attatched to a player - to deactivate Energizers/Rechargers/Regulators, for the sake of balance, could be cool. Not so strong that it balances CQC to 50/50, but enough to make Shields always superior at range, and maintain Armor always being superior CQC. Well, first about your CQC and long range point... It isn't really true. You are better suited for cover based CQC, armor is better suited for just assaulting your position and hoping you die before they die. Then the rep tool, it's a useful tool to have when you get a breather, but when you are attacking someone, it's usually better to just have the Logi pull out his gun and do 4x the amount of damage he could repair. Cover based CQC... explain this please? Who doesn't get flanked in CQC cover? Those are too bad players if they are taking pot shots at each other from 10 meters behind boxes... I'd disengage and flank them...
TYCHUS MAXWELL The Fun Police 684	Posted - 2014.12.13 00:09:00 - [45] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Around 400. He definitely had at least 3x extenders, I don't remember the exact number so I'm not sure if he had a fourth. Then there is not a chance in hell he could of reppedd 350ish shields in the time it took to reload a PR... no matter how you try to explain it you still were being facetious in your opening statements.
Vicious Minotaur 1461	Posted - 2014.12.13 00:11:00 - [46] - Quote hfderrtgvcd wrote: See how easy it is to pull numbers out of my ass? So that's where Cavani got his numbers... Did he retrieve them himself from your number receptacle? Or was there some other arrangement in place? And more importantly, where can I get in on this action? I need a few numbers, preferably, one and two, so I can then form a twelve. I am a minotaur. a+üa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa+üa¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça+üa+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+üa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa+üa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ë
Cat Merc Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 13779	Posted - 2014.12.13 00:13:00 - [47] - Quote TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Denchlad 7 wrote: As I've always said, Shields < Armor. Not because they're not balanced, they are pretty well balanced on paper. However, the majority of fights in game are CQC. On Manus Peak for example (one of the most open maps) my Cal Assault is lovely with a Rail Rifle, against armor tanks. However, build a CQC fit for it and its outclassed by Armor, which makes sense, as shield fits are designed for longer ranges. And the issue here is the majority of fights are CQC, due to the nature of the sockets where objectives are. I still find my Shield suits better in Ambush, as there is a higher chance of open-field combat. The Repair Tool isn't considered though. Put a decent Rep Tool on any decent Armor-Tanker and its a nightmare, CQC or Long Range. I would love a Shield Repair Tool. Nowhere near as good as the current Armor Repair Tools, but enough to give Shield suits a decent chance. Allowing it - when attatched to a player - to deactivate Energizers/Rechargers/Regulators, for the sake of balance, could be cool. Not so strong that it balances CQC to 50/50, but enough to make Shields always superior at range, and maintain Armor always being superior CQC. Well, first about your CQC and long range point... It isn't really true. You are better suited for cover based CQC, armor is better suited for just assaulting your position and hoping you die before they die. Then the rep tool, it's a useful tool to have when you get a breather, but when you are attacking someone, it's usually better to just have the Logi pull out his gun and do 4x the amount of damage he could repair. Cover based CQC... explain this please? Who doesn't get flanked in CQC cover? Those are two bad players if they are taking pot shots at each other from 10 meters behind boxes... I'd disengage and flank them... Not too mention a nade ends that real quick especially for a shield tank if it's a flux. Cover based CQC involves using cover to your advantage. It doesn't mean sitting behind a box, it means using cover to confuse your enemy, to pop out from positions he wouldn't expect, etc'. The most common type of it you see is where two people fight around a box. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++
Cat Merc Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 13779	Posted - 2014.12.13 00:15:00 - [48] - Quote TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Around 400. He definitely had at least 3x extenders, I don't remember the exact number so I'm not sure if he had a fourth. Then there is not a chance in hell he could of reppedd 350ish shields in the time it took to reload a PR... no matter how you try to explain it you still were being facetious in your opening statements. There is, because it happened. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++
Daddrobit You Can Call Me Daddy 1220	Posted - 2014.12.13 00:20:00 - [49] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Around 400. He definitely had at least 3x extenders, I don't remember the exact number so I'm not sure if he had a fourth. Then there is not a chance in hell he could of reppedd 350ish shields in the time it took to reload a PR... no matter how you try to explain it you still were being facetious in your opening statements. There is, because it happened. As someone here calculated, a scout can regenerate 400 shields in about 6 seconds. Considering that this time includes IoP switch, Plasma Rifle reload, and then me zeroing in on his position with my crosshair, I think it could definitely happen. And it's far more realistic than expecting someone to shoot after 2.2 seconds or whatever, because we aren't machines. What happens in the math doesn't always translate into the game well. Well that example was for 300 shields, but 400 would only take a second longer with the energizer, so 7 seconds. Still very possible if accounting for the sidearm switch. O.G. Pink Fluffy Bunny
TYCHUS MAXWELL The Fun Police 685	Posted - 2014.12.13 00:22:00 - [50] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Denchlad 7 wrote: As I've always said, Shields < Armor. Not because they're not balanced, they are pretty well balanced on paper. However, the majority of fights in game are CQC. On Manus Peak for example (one of the most open maps) my Cal Assault is lovely with a Rail Rifle, against armor tanks. However, build a CQC fit for it and its outclassed by Armor, which makes sense, as shield fits are designed for longer ranges. And the issue here is the majority of fights are CQC, due to the nature of the sockets where objectives are. I still find my Shield suits better in Ambush, as there is a higher chance of open-field combat. The Repair Tool isn't considered though. Put a decent Rep Tool on any decent Armor-Tanker and its a nightmare, CQC or Long Range. I would love a Shield Repair Tool. Nowhere near as good as the current Armor Repair Tools, but enough to give Shield suits a decent chance. Allowing it - when attatched to a player - to deactivate Energizers/Rechargers/Regulators, for the sake of balance, could be cool. Not so strong that it balances CQC to 50/50, but enough to make Shields always superior at range, and maintain Armor always being superior CQC. Well, first about your CQC and long range point... It isn't really true. You are better suited for cover based CQC, armor is better suited for just assaulting your position and hoping you die before they die. Then the rep tool, it's a useful tool to have when you get a breather, but when you are attacking someone, it's usually better to just have the Logi pull out his gun and do 4x the amount of damage he could repair. Cover based CQC... explain this please? Who doesn't get flanked in CQC cover? Those are two bad players if they are taking pot shots at each other from 10 meters behind boxes... I'd disengage and flank them... Not too mention a nade ends that real quick especially for a shield tank if it's a flux. Cover based CQC involves using cover to your advantage. It doesn't mean sitting behind a box, it means using cover to confuse your enemy, to pop out from positions he wouldn't expect, etc'. The most common type of it you see is where two people fight around a box. I get what you're talking about, but that only ever works on poorly (In my opinion) built amarr and gallente assaults. The ones that are plated to the max and cant move around said cover to catch you. Hell i'll use ring around the rosey in my Minmitar assaults with at least 1 more meter of movement speed between me and the other guy and he still gets a bullet in my ass often enough to stop my regen. Cover ring around the rosey I've only had work when I retreat for a while between several cargo containers and he was 20 meters out from said cover. I wouldn't qualify that as CQC though personally. Mostly that's me darting around and losing them while they search for me and I regen. Our typical lower e/hp makes me quite familiar with that in minmitar suits lol. Caldari can't do that **** though they move at the same speed as Gallente and only barely outrun amarr at base... which again a little bit higher speed won't help you outrun a bullet.

TYCHUS MAXWELL The Fun Police 685	Posted - 2014.12.13 00:26:00 - [51] - Quote Daddrobit wrote: Cat Merc wrote: TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Around 400. He definitely had at least 3x extenders, I don't remember the exact number so I'm not sure if he had a fourth. Then there is not a chance in hell he could of reppedd 350ish shields in the time it took to reload a PR... no matter how you try to explain it you still were being facetious in your opening statements. There is, because it happened. As someone here calculated, a scout can regenerate 400 shields in about 6 seconds. Considering that this time includes IoP switch, Plasma Rifle reload, and then me zeroing in on his position with my crosshair, I think it could definitely happen. And it's far more realistic than expecting someone to shoot after 2.2 seconds or whatever, because we aren't machines. What happens in the math doesn't always translate into the game well. Well that example was for 300 shields, but 400 would only take a second longer with the energizer, so 7 seconds. Still very possible if accounting for the sidearm switch. And how is 7 seconds not a misrepresentation of how long it took to reload a PR? I knew I got the truth out eventually and that's why I said your original statement was a misrepresentation and now you have simply tried to defend said position by showing my point...
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 15827	Posted - 2014.12.13 00:39:00 - [52] - Quote TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: No one really cares though because Amarr bitched until they were made identical to the Gallente as armor tankers That's because Amarr are armour tankers...... You'll see more Shield Modules on Gallentean ships than you ever will on Amarrian military platforms. *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
Cavani1EE7 Murphys-Law 593	Posted - 2014.12.13 00:39:00 - [53] - Quote Rattati, here's a TL;DR version of this thread: Kill the armor tanking meta and let's all be ShieldTastic Everyone agree and approve. Take a bow
Cat Merc Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 13780	Posted - 2014.12.13 00:41:00 - [54] - Quote TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: Cat Merc wrote: TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Denchlad 7 wrote: As I've always said, Shields < Armor. Not because they're not balanced, they are pretty well balanced on paper. However, the majority of fights in game are CQC. On Manus Peak for example (one of the most open maps) my Cal Assault is lovely with a Rail Rifle, against armor tanks. However, build a CQC fit for it and its outclassed by Armor, which makes sense, as shield fits are designed for longer ranges. And the issue here is the majority of fights are CQC, due to the nature of the sockets where objectives are. I still find my Shield suits better in Ambush, as there is a higher chance of open-field combat. The Repair Tool isn't considered though. Put a decent Rep Tool on any decent Armor-Tanker and its a nightmare, CQC or Long Range. I would love a Shield Repair Tool. Nowhere near as good as the current Armor Repair Tools, but enough to give Shield suits a decent chance. Allowing it - when attatched to a player - to deactivate Energizers/Rechargers/Regulators, for the sake of balance, could be cool. Not so strong that it balances CQC to 50/50, but enough to make Shields always superior at range, and maintain Armor always being superior CQC. Well, first about your CQC and long range point... It isn't really true. You are better suited for cover based CQC, armor is better suited for just assaulting your position and hoping you die before they die. Then the rep tool, it's a useful tool to have when you get a breather, but when you are attacking someone, it's usually better to just have the Logi pull out his gun and do 4x the amount of damage he could repair. Cover based CQC... explain this please? Who doesn't get flanked in CQC cover? Those are two bad players if they are taking pot shots at each other from 10 meters behind boxes... I'd disengage and flank them... Not too mention a nade ends that real quick especially for a shield tank if it's a flux. Cover based CQC involves using cover to your advantage. It doesn't mean sitting behind a box, it means using cover to confuse your enemy, to pop out from positions he wouldn't expect, etc'. The most common type of it you see is where two people fight around a box. I get what you're talking about, but that only ever works on poorly (In my opinion) built amarr and gallente assaults. The ones that are plated to the max and cant move around said cover to catch you. Hell i'll use ring around the rosey in my Minmitar assaults with at least 1 more meter of movement speed between me and the other guy and he still gets a bullet in my ass often enough to stop my regen. Cover ring around the rosey I've only had work when I retreat for a while between several cargo containers and he was 20 meters out from said cover. I wouldn't qualify that as CQC though personally. Mostly that's me darting around and losing them while they search for me and I regen. Our typical lower e/hp makes me quite familiar with that in minmitar suits lol. Caldari can't do that **** though they move at the same speed as Gallente and only barely outrun amarr at base... which again a little bit higher speed won't help you outrun a bullet. Well, you have low slots. Those low slots don't cost from your HP (unless you're plate stacking). My Cal Assault fit has 2 regulators and 1 kin cat. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++
Cat Merc Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 13780	Posted - 2014.12.13 00:43:00 - [55] - Quote TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: Daddrobit wrote: Cat Merc wrote: TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Around 400. He definitely had at least 3x extenders, I don't remember the exact number so I'm not sure if he had a fourth. Then there is not a chance in hell he could of reppedd 350ish shields in the time it took to reload a PR... no matter how you try to explain it you still were being facetious in your opening statements. There is, because it happened. As someone here calculated, a scout can regenerate 400 shields in about 6 seconds. Considering that this time includes IoP switch, Plasma Rifle reload, and then me zeroing in on his position with my crosshair, I think it could definitely happen. And it's far more realistic than expecting someone to shoot after 2.2 seconds or whatever, because we aren't machines. What happens in the math doesn't always translate into the game well. Well that example was for 300 shields, but 400 would only take a second longer with the energizer, so 7 seconds. Still very possible if accounting for the sidearm switch. And how is 7 seconds not a misrepresentation of how long it took to reload a PR? I knew I got the truth out eventually and that's why I said your original statement was a misrepresentation and now you have simply tried to defend said position by showing my point... I get how the scenario played out as it did but that isn't "In the time it took me to reload my PR he had fully regenerated..." In the time it took me to realistically reload a PR, get my sights on target and pull the trigger. Numbers don't always work out when translated into a realistic enviroment. In theory a swarm launcher can fire much faster than actually happens on field. What happens on field is affected by many small little factors. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++
Cat Merc Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 13780	Posted - 2014.12.13 00:44:00 - [56] - Quote Cavani1EE7 wrote: Rattati, here's a TL;DR version of this thread: Kill the armor tanking meta and let's all be ShieldTastic Everyone agree and approve. So, basically, DUST Closed beta, open beta, Uprising 1, Uprising 1.1, Uprising 1.2 and Uprising 1.3? Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++
Ace Boone Capital Acquisitions LLC 572	Posted - 2014.12.13 00:47:00 - [57] - Quote Shields advantages give you a lot of eHP without being weighted down, with a muuch faster (and adjustable) regen speed. Armor's advantages give you a bigger eHP pool, regen through damage and even more durability as the armor light weapons don't do nearly as much as the shield light weapons. It also makes you slower. However, the shield regen delay is too long for some shield suits and energizers need to be buffed as they take away from your total eHP pool in favor of more health, but shield suits are already squishy. Armor tanking is more effective for a lot of people, for others, such as myself we even shield tank gallente suits (scout). It's just up to personal opinion. I like my speed and my regen but armor repair is way slower for shield based suits than shield regen is for armor based suits (that's my BIGGEST complaint). Only loyal to the republic. I'm nothing more than bittervet without a PS3.
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2605	Posted - 2014.12.13 00:52:00 - [58] - Quote I don't think there's any question this game is tipped in favor of armor in the objective game modes (skirm/dom). Posters before me have described all the reasons why very well, and I can't really add much to that, so I won't. That said, I still like shield tanking. For one thing it's harder to play. Another feature that attracted me to it is it is more customizable via modules. As I have an in-your-face hyper-aggressive playstyle, I have always been attracted to the speed that shiled tanking brought to the game. However, versus armor tanking this has always been kind of a square peg in a round hole -- but that's what makes it fun.
Joseph Ridgeson warravens Capital Punishment. 2896	Posted - 2014.12.13 00:54:00 - [59] - Quote Armor has more advantages. It is pretty clear. Let's assume that the defensive stats are equal. IE, Armor gives more HP because Shields passively recharge faster. Let's assume that the negatives of moving slower make up for the negative of recharging slower. * Armor is a lot easier to fit. Extenders go 18/3, 36/6, 54/11 while Plates go 9/3, 18/6, and 37/12. Ferroscale and Reactive go 4/1, 10/3, and 23/8. * Armor takes less SP. Two skills rather than three. * Flux grenades are devastating to Shield Tankers compared to Armor Tankers. With the HP difference, I would say that a Locus grenade is about equally dangerous to a Shield Tanker as an Armor Tanker. * The big one: Repair tools and Repair Hives. If I am playing Logistics, I am going to want to follow the Armor Tanker more than the Shield Tanker because they will survive longer and I will get more WP. This sort of 'sexual selection' might cause Armor Tankers to reproduce far more often than Shield Tankers ala evolution. I do think there should be some changes but it is not NEARLY as bad as it was before the change to Shield Extenders. Still some work to be done IMO. "This is B.S! This is B.S! I paid money! Cash money, dollars money, cash money!"
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 15827	Posted - 2014.12.13 00:59:00 - [60] - Quote Joseph Ridgeson wrote: Armor has more advantages. It is pretty clear. Let's assume that the defensive stats are equal. IE, Armor gives more HP because Shields passively recharge faster. Let's assume that the negatives of moving slower make up for the negative of recharging slower. * Armor is a lot easier to fit. Extenders go 18/3, 36/6, 54/11 while Plates go 9/3, 18/6, and 37/12. Ferroscale and Reactive go 4/1, 10/3, and 23/8. * Armor takes less SP. Two skills rather than three. * Flux grenades are devastating to Shield Tankers compared to Armor Tankers. With the HP difference, I would say that a Locus grenade is about equally dangerous to a Shield Tanker as an Armor Tanker. * The big one: Repair tools and Repair Hives. If I am playing Logistics, I am going to want to follow the Armor Tanker more than the Shield Tanker because they will survive longer and I will get more WP. This sort of 'sexual selection' might cause Armor Tankers to reproduce far more often than Shield Tankers ala evolution. I do think there should be some changes but it is not NEARLY as bad as it was before the change to Shield Extenders. Still some work to be done IMO. Lol its actually funny in terms of vehicles Shield HAV are over powered as hell. *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.



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