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TYCHUS MAXWELL
The Fun Police
674
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Posted - 2014.12.12 22:37:00 -
[1] - Quote
Cavani1EE7 wrote:then why is 90% of the player base armor tanked? How would you explain that?
Yup, the other 10% has plates on their lows as well. lol
Because it's not fine and cool just most of us have given up on any hope and switched to armor tanking. I typically stack damage mods and maybe some regen on a Caldari (At least when I used to have Caldari suits before I respecced) because extenders just aren't worth it. Who cares if you have 700 shields if one charged ScR shot or 1.5 seconds of fire from a BAR/LR strip them off you and om nom your low armor. There's a reason Caldari suits are pretty rare. I run the Covenant C-1 BPO and I feel bad everytime I kill a non scout caldari suit above STD level, it's just a waste of isk.
If you've got time to hide in a corner and wait for your shield regen to quick in and then hide until they are completely repleted (As splash damage from a 0 damage forge gun resets shield regen on dropsuits) then you have time to armor rep and can poke in and out of cover while doing it. Simply put they are just no good. Caldari Scouts are only good because of their voodoo bullet dodging magic.
No one really cares though because Amarr bitched until they were made identical to the Gallente as armor tankers and Minmitar well we can more effectively use the only good mods (As more than 3 damage mods is a waste anyways due to stacking penalties) and armor tank better than the Caldari. Most of the player base doesn't care about shield tanking because thanks to "lore" changes only 1 race even cares about shields. |
TYCHUS MAXWELL
The Fun Police
674
|
Posted - 2014.12.12 22:37:00 -
[2] - Quote
hfderrtgvcd wrote:Actually 97.3% of suits on the battlefield are caldari assaults.
See how easy it is to pull numbers out of my ass?
If you are going to **** post can you at least not do so with a massive gap? |
TYCHUS MAXWELL
The Fun Police
678
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Posted - 2014.12.12 23:13:00 -
[3] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Was fighting a Cal Scout.
His shields recharged fully before I could reload my Plasma Rifle.
Clearly shields are UP and need a buff.
You had to have missed them for around 5 seconds then. Not sure if actually that bad or lying to make a point... any damage including 0 damage and the shields stop resetting. They also take 3 seconds to begin recharging or 4 seconds if on delay assuming the guy had no extenders on. |
TYCHUS MAXWELL
The Fun Police
678
|
Posted - 2014.12.12 23:29:00 -
[4] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Was fighting a Cal Scout.
His shields recharged fully before I could reload my Plasma Rifle.
Clearly shields are UP and need a buff. You had to have missed them for around 5 seconds then. Not sure if actually that bad or lying to make a point... any damage including 0 damage and the shields stop resetting. They also take 3 seconds to begin recharging or 4 seconds if on delay assuming the guy had no extenders on. If you empty 36/60 PR rounds and didn't kill them you deserved to lose the encounter anyways. Sure, because you can hit 100% of your shots when a Cal Scout is strafing and jump around like a hyped rabbit. Anyway what actually happened was that I just engaged his friend, so I was out of ammo, so I switched to my Ion Pistol. It decided to overheat on me before I could finish off his last bit of armor, and by the time it came out of overheat he already regained a bit of shields, meaning I couldn't kill him with the last few shots. So I switched my Plasma Rifle and reloaded, as I did that his shields got back up to full.
Well yeah when you actually define it that's what happened and in no way shows that shields are op... I don't expect 100% accuracy that's lunacy but assuming it was the standard variant PR that's at least around 30 damage at standard level with a 33 damage hit on shields. Assuming the guy was shield tanked to the max that's around 15/60 shots needing to land to kill him, the fact that you didn't finish his shields was what did you in though on the reload as his shield delay would be 3 seconds assuming he had no regulators. In any case, the scenario you provide was absolutely reasonable for you to lose the fight if you didn't even have a full magazine. Can't expect to win every >1v1. |
TYCHUS MAXWELL
The Fun Police
682
|
Posted - 2014.12.12 23:39:00 -
[5] - Quote
CrotchGrab 360 wrote:amarr assault is king, alpha fast enough to kill before you can blink,
low slots to rep as much as a shield based suit, ferroscale plates for mobility.
it will never become fotm (scr + amarr asaault) because you still need skill.
i went 28-2 yesterday with elm laser rifle, fotm scrubs better stay away,
amarr is for the true kings of new eden.
Well right now the BAR is king so I see more BAR + Amarr assault but before the BAR buff the most common assault I ever saw was the ScR + Amarr assault. Not sure if you just started playing or what but June-October was Amarr assault ScR all day erryday everywhere. Only reason the ScR only got 50 less RPM was because Rattatai said it was performing on par. But considering how rare shield tanking is ScR shouldn't be on par... but I digress... |
TYCHUS MAXWELL
The Fun Police
682
|
Posted - 2014.12.12 23:43:00 -
[6] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote:Cat Merc wrote:TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Was fighting a Cal Scout.
His shields recharged fully before I could reload my Plasma Rifle.
Clearly shields are UP and need a buff. You had to have missed them for around 5 seconds then. Not sure if actually that bad or lying to make a point... any damage including 0 damage and the shields stop resetting. They also take 3 seconds to begin recharging or 4 seconds if on delay assuming the guy had no extenders on. If you empty 36/60 PR rounds and didn't kill them you deserved to lose the encounter anyways. Sure, because you can hit 100% of your shots when a Cal Scout is strafing and jump around like a hyped rabbit. Anyway what actually happened was that I just engaged his friend, so I was out of ammo, so I switched to my Ion Pistol. It decided to overheat on me before I could finish off his last bit of armor, and by the time it came out of overheat he already regained a bit of shields, meaning I couldn't kill him with the last few shots. So I switched my Plasma Rifle and reloaded, as I did that his shields got back up to full. Well yeah when you actually define it that's what happened and in no way shows that shields are op... I don't expect 100% accuracy that's lunacy but assuming it was the standard variant PR that's at least around 30 damage at standard level with a 33 damage hit on shields. Assuming the guy was shield tanked to the max that's around 15/60 shots needing to land to kill him, the fact that you didn't finish his shields was what did you in though on the reload as his shield delay would be 3 seconds assuming he had no regulators. In any case, the scenario you provide was absolutely reasonable for you to lose the fight if you didn't even have a full magazine. Can't expect to win every >1v1. Well, first I made sure to stop his shield regen with my last few Ion Pistol shots. Second, I didn't lose it. The dude was terrible. While this entire fight was going on, a shotgun scout was chasing me around and trying to kill me. He kept missing, and when I finally got the Cal Scout after 10 seconds of running around, I finished him off. It was hilarious.
Doesn't change the fact that your example was an intentional misrepresentation  . Leet skills or not you still prefaced this whole explanation with shields being UP a facetious claim, as you defined it by the fact that a cal scout could regen through your reload. Which wasn't even a true statement. |
TYCHUS MAXWELL
The Fun Police
684
|
Posted - 2014.12.12 23:59:00 -
[7] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote:Doesn't change the fact that your example was an intentional misrepresentation . Leet skills or not you still prefaced this whole explanation with shields being UP a facetious claim, as you defined it by the fact that a cal scout could regen through your reload. Which wasn't even a true statement. It did though, I stopped his shield regen with my Ion Pistol, switched to my Plasma Rifle, reloaded, and he was already up. In what context it happened doesn't honestly matter.
You admitted his shields weren't depleted, IE. he had a standard regen speed regardless of extenders + he wouldn't have to regen all that much if he wasn't depleted in the first place.
That's tantamount to me shooting one rail shot at a gallente scout and complaining that his armor repaired before I even thought about reloading. |
TYCHUS MAXWELL
The Fun Police
684
|
Posted - 2014.12.13 00:01:00 -
[8] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote:Cat Merc wrote:TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote:Doesn't change the fact that your example was an intentional misrepresentation . Leet skills or not you still prefaced this whole explanation with shields being UP a facetious claim, as you defined it by the fact that a cal scout could regen through your reload. Which wasn't even a true statement. It did though, I stopped his shield regen with my Ion Pistol, switched to my Plasma Rifle, reloaded, and he was already up. In what context it happened doesn't honestly matter. You admitted his shields weren't depleted, IE. he had a standard regen speed regardless of extenders + he wouldn't have to regen all that much if he wasn't depleted in the first place. That's literally an extra second. He would have had one less pulse of shields.
and even less pulse of shields to reach his max as he wasn't depleted. |
TYCHUS MAXWELL
The Fun Police
684
|
Posted - 2014.12.13 00:04:00 -
[9] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote:Cat Merc wrote:TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote:Doesn't change the fact that your example was an intentional misrepresentation . Leet skills or not you still prefaced this whole explanation with shields being UP a facetious claim, as you defined it by the fact that a cal scout could regen through your reload. Which wasn't even a true statement. It did though, I stopped his shield regen with my Ion Pistol, switched to my Plasma Rifle, reloaded, and he was already up. In what context it happened doesn't honestly matter. You admitted his shields weren't depleted, IE. he had a standard regen speed regardless of extenders + he wouldn't have to regen all that much if he wasn't depleted in the first place. That's literally an extra second. He would have had one less pulse of shields. And he was NEAR depleted, like so close if I had one more shot on my IoP I could finish what's left of his shields + what's left of his armor in that single shot.
do you remember what his shield total was? Because if he regened literally in the time it took you to reload a PR he must of only had about 200 shields and was stacked with rechargers which is a terrible example again that's like me complaining that a triple armor repped scout repped his armor to full after 1 shot from a rail rifle. |
TYCHUS MAXWELL
The Fun Police
684
|
Posted - 2014.12.13 00:07:00 -
[10] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Denchlad 7 wrote:As I've always said, Shields < Armor.
Not because they're not balanced, they are pretty well balanced on paper. However, the majority of fights in game are CQC. On Manus Peak for example (one of the most open maps) my Cal Assault is lovely with a Rail Rifle, against armor tanks.
However, build a CQC fit for it and its outclassed by Armor, which makes sense, as shield fits are designed for longer ranges. And the issue here is the majority of fights are CQC, due to the nature of the sockets where objectives are. I still find my Shield suits better in Ambush, as there is a higher chance of open-field combat.
The Repair Tool isn't considered though. Put a decent Rep Tool on any decent Armor-Tanker and its a nightmare, CQC or Long Range. I would love a Shield Repair Tool. Nowhere near as good as the current Armor Repair Tools, but enough to give Shield suits a decent chance. Allowing it - when attatched to a player - to deactivate Energizers/Rechargers/Regulators, for the sake of balance, could be cool. Not so strong that it balances CQC to 50/50, but enough to make Shields always superior at range, and maintain Armor always being superior CQC. Well, first about your CQC and long range point... It isn't really true. You are better suited for cover based CQC, armor is better suited for just assaulting your position and hoping you die before they die. Then the rep tool, it's a useful tool to have when you get a breather, but when you are attacking someone, it's usually better to just have the Logi pull out his gun and do 4x the amount of damage he could repair.
Cover based CQC... explain this please? Who doesn't get flanked in CQC cover? Those are too bad players if they are taking pot shots at each other from 10 meters behind boxes... I'd disengage and flank them... |
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TYCHUS MAXWELL
The Fun Police
684
|
Posted - 2014.12.13 00:09:00 -
[11] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:
Around 400.
He definitely had at least 3x extenders, I don't remember the exact number so I'm not sure if he had a fourth.
Then there is not a chance in hell he could of reppedd 350ish shields in the time it took to reload a PR... no matter how you try to explain it you still were being facetious in your opening statements. |
TYCHUS MAXWELL
The Fun Police
685
|
Posted - 2014.12.13 00:22:00 -
[12] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Denchlad 7 wrote:As I've always said, Shields < Armor.
Not because they're not balanced, they are pretty well balanced on paper. However, the majority of fights in game are CQC. On Manus Peak for example (one of the most open maps) my Cal Assault is lovely with a Rail Rifle, against armor tanks.
However, build a CQC fit for it and its outclassed by Armor, which makes sense, as shield fits are designed for longer ranges. And the issue here is the majority of fights are CQC, due to the nature of the sockets where objectives are. I still find my Shield suits better in Ambush, as there is a higher chance of open-field combat.
The Repair Tool isn't considered though. Put a decent Rep Tool on any decent Armor-Tanker and its a nightmare, CQC or Long Range. I would love a Shield Repair Tool. Nowhere near as good as the current Armor Repair Tools, but enough to give Shield suits a decent chance. Allowing it - when attatched to a player - to deactivate Energizers/Rechargers/Regulators, for the sake of balance, could be cool. Not so strong that it balances CQC to 50/50, but enough to make Shields always superior at range, and maintain Armor always being superior CQC. Well, first about your CQC and long range point... It isn't really true. You are better suited for cover based CQC, armor is better suited for just assaulting your position and hoping you die before they die. Then the rep tool, it's a useful tool to have when you get a breather, but when you are attacking someone, it's usually better to just have the Logi pull out his gun and do 4x the amount of damage he could repair. Cover based CQC... explain this please? Who doesn't get flanked in CQC cover? Those are two bad players if they are taking pot shots at each other from 10 meters behind boxes... I'd disengage and flank them... Not too mention a nade ends that real quick especially for a shield tank if it's a flux. Cover based CQC involves using cover to your advantage. It doesn't mean sitting behind a box, it means using cover to confuse your enemy, to pop out from positions he wouldn't expect, etc'. The most common type of it you see is where two people fight around a box.
I get what you're talking about, but that only ever works on poorly (In my opinion) built amarr and gallente assaults. The ones that are plated to the max and cant move around said cover to catch you. Hell i'll use ring around the rosey in my Minmitar assaults with at least 1 more meter of movement speed between me and the other guy and he still gets a bullet in my ass often enough to stop my regen. Cover ring around the rosey I've only had work when I retreat for a while between several cargo containers and he was 20 meters out from said cover. I wouldn't qualify that as CQC though personally. Mostly that's me darting around and losing them while they search for me and I regen. Our typical lower e/hp makes me quite familiar with that in minmitar suits lol. Caldari can't do that **** though they move at the same speed as Gallente and only barely outrun amarr at base... which again a little bit higher speed won't help you outrun a bullet. |
TYCHUS MAXWELL
The Fun Police
685
|
Posted - 2014.12.13 00:26:00 -
[13] - Quote
Daddrobit wrote:Cat Merc wrote:TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote:Cat Merc wrote:
Around 400.
He definitely had at least 3x extenders, I don't remember the exact number so I'm not sure if he had a fourth.
Then there is not a chance in hell he could of reppedd 350ish shields in the time it took to reload a PR... no matter how you try to explain it you still were being facetious in your opening statements. There is, because it happened. As someone here calculated, a scout can regenerate 400 shields in about 6 seconds. Considering that this time includes IoP switch, Plasma Rifle reload, and then me zeroing in on his position with my crosshair, I think it could definitely happen. And it's far more realistic than expecting someone to shoot after 2.2 seconds or whatever, because we aren't machines. What happens in the math doesn't always translate into the game well. Well that example was for 300 shields, but 400 would only take a second longer with the energizer, so 7 seconds. Still very possible if accounting for the sidearm switch.
And how is 7 seconds not a misrepresentation of how long it took to reload a PR? I knew I got the truth out eventually and that's why I said your original statement was a misrepresentation and now you have simply tried to defend said position by showing my point... |
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