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Should Heavy weapons be better than Light Weapons?

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pagl1u M Dead Man's Game RUST415 1069	Posted - 2014.12.12 01:49:00 - [1] - Quote I keep hearing from various players that heavy weapons HAVE to be better than Light weapons. me:"the hmg has too much dps" Guy: "It is a heavy weapon, it has to be stronger." I hear players talking about new heavy lazor like a laser rifle but 2x stronger. I think Heavy should only mean "different", there is nothing that says Heavy means "better". One of the few assaults you'll find in a PC match!
Pocket Rocket Girl Psygod9 133	Posted - 2014.12.12 01:55:00 - [2] - Quote pagl1u M wrote: I keep hearing from various players that heavy weapons HAVE to be better than Light weapons. me:"the hmg has too much dps" Guy: "It is a heavy weapon, it has to be stronger." I hear players talking about new heavy lazor like a laser rifle but 2x stronger. I think Heavy should only mean "different", there is nothing that says Heavy means "better". HMG is broken even when there is a red in the big circle if he/she isnt in in the dead center little circle no damage will be applied. just because its a Heavy weapon why should it mean better than light weapon? weapons should be situational. people who complain about the HMG need to learn not to stand out in the open learn to strafe. The Little Girl with the HMG
Khulmach Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 21	Posted - 2014.12.12 01:59:00 - [3] - Quote Heavy-Heavier-Stronger-Better damage,but slows you down. Ya the weapon should do more damage,its a freaken machine gun. Devastatingly damage love.
Atiim Titans of Phoenix 14324	Posted - 2014.12.12 02:01:00 - [4] - Quote If Heavy Weapons are better than Light Weapons, there's no point in fielding a slayer with a Light Weapon. And vice versa; no point in fielding an HW if LWs do it completely better. Which is why I think they should be different, as opposed to a complete upgrade. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Heimdallr69 Nyain San General Tso's Alliance 3885	Posted - 2014.12.12 02:02:00 - [5] - Quote Pocket Rocket Girl wrote: pagl1u M wrote: I keep hearing from various players that heavy weapons HAVE to be better than Light weapons. me:"the hmg has too much dps" Guy: "It is a heavy weapon, it has to be stronger." I hear players talking about new heavy lazor like a laser rifle but 2x stronger. I think Heavy should only mean "different", there is nothing that says Heavy means "better". HMG is broken even when there is a red in the big circle if he/she isnt in in the dead center little circle no damage will be applied. just because its a Heavy weapon why should it mean better than light weapon? weapons should be situational. people who complain about the HMG need to learn not to stand out in the open learn to strafe. Not always that easy when the objective is CQC a whopping 5-10m of room. Assaults and logis aren't all fast not like scouts, not every class can out strafe an hmg. And a heavy laser doing 2x as much damage as a light laser? That's not screaming OP at all. Removed inappropriate content - CCP Logibro
Atiim Titans of Phoenix 14324	Posted - 2014.12.12 02:02:00 - [6] - Quote Pocket Rocket Girl wrote: HMG is broken even when there is a red in the big circle if he/she isnt in in the dead center little circle no damage will be applied. It's almost as if you're supposed to well you know, aim the weapon. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
pagl1u M Dead Man's Game RUST415 1071	Posted - 2014.12.12 02:05:00 - [7] - Quote Pocket Rocket Girl wrote: HMG is broken even when there is a red in the big circle if he/she isnt in in the dead center little circle no damage will be applied. just because its a Heavy weapon why should it mean better than light weapon? weapons should be situational. people who complain about the HMG need to learn not to stand out in the open learn to strafe. that problem was fixed so it isnt the case anymore, anyway this thread isnt about "hmg is op". You answered my question. Khulmach wrote: Heavy-Heavier-Stronger-Better damage,but slows you down. Ya the weapon should do more damage,its a freaken machine gun. Devastatingly damage love. Do not start talking about real life things, ffs! So why doesnt the hmg slow down the Sentinel? One of the few assaults you'll find in a PC match!
Everything Dies Santa is coming...FOR BLOOD 1129	Posted - 2014.12.12 02:06:00 - [8] - Quote pagl1u M wrote: I keep hearing from various players that heavy weapons HAVE to be better than Light weapons. me:"the hmg has too much dps" Guy: "It is a heavy weapon, it has to be stronger." I hear players talking about new heavy lazor like a laser rifle but 2x stronger. I think Heavy should only mean "different", there is nothing that says Heavy means "better". It's all relative; the HMG can do an ungodly amount of damage if you're caught unaware, but the limited range really restricts it to CQC. Hence, you'll see HMGs inside of buildings/structures where they can keep the fighting within their optimal range. Catch an HMGunner outside and all the DPS in the world won't mean diddly-squat if they're being shredded by a rail or combat rifle. Does that actually make the HMG "better" than any other weapon? Not really, it just means that it should be the best within its optimal range. Also, it's worth noting that if you aren't going to give heavy weapons some sort of advantage over light weapons, you'll see a return to the 1,600HP monsters wielding rail rifles that will laugh as you take them on at 70m with an assault/scout suit. Mike Patton is the greatest singer in music. Proof
Everything Dies Santa is coming...FOR BLOOD 1129	Posted - 2014.12.12 02:09:00 - [9] - Quote pagl1u M wrote: Do not start talking about real life things, ffs! So why doesnt the hmg slow down the Sentinel? My suggestion was that the movement of the actual targeting reticule of heavy weapons be slowed down to give the sensation of wielding a "heavy" weapon. Mike Patton is the greatest singer in music. Proof
pagl1u M Dead Man's Game RUST415 1074	Posted - 2014.12.12 02:22:00 - [10] - Quote Everything Dies wrote: Also, it's worth noting that if you aren't going to give heavy weapons some sort of advantage over light weapons, you'll see a return to the 1,600HP monsters wielding rail rifles that will laugh as you take them on at 70m with an assault/scout suit. BUT, unless you want to say that Sentinels are weaker than other suits, that will mean that a Sebtinel+heavy weapon is going to be stronger than a medium+light weapon. This is not balanced. One of the few assaults you'll find in a PC match!

Fiddlestaxp TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 1091	Posted - 2014.12.12 02:37:00 - [11] - Quote pagl1u M wrote: I think Heavy should only mean "different", there is nothing that says Heavy means "better". You are absolutely correct. Ideally, choices would be situationally or strategically better under different circumstances. Asymmetrical balance is the best balance.
Pocket Rocket Girl Psygod9 134	Posted - 2014.12.12 02:37:00 - [12] - Quote Heimdallr69 wrote: Pocket Rocket Girl wrote: pagl1u M wrote: I keep hearing from various players that heavy weapons HAVE to be better than Light weapons. me:"the hmg has too much dps" Guy: "It is a heavy weapon, it has to be stronger." I hear players talking about new heavy lazor like a laser rifle but 2x stronger. I think Heavy should only mean "different", there is nothing that says Heavy means "better". HMG is broken even when there is a red in the big circle if he/she isnt in in the dead center little circle no damage will be applied. just because its a Heavy weapon why should it mean better than light weapon? weapons should be situational. people who complain about the HMG need to learn not to stand out in the open learn to strafe. Not always that easy when the objective is CQC a whopping 5-10m of room. Assaults and logis aren't all fast not like scouts, not every class can out strafe an hmg. And a heavy laser doing 2x as much damage as a light laser? That's not screaming OP at all. i have seen hevies out strafe a hmg i have done it my self, like i said weapons are situational i never mentioned any thing about speed just strafing i my self have a hvy thats 7.44m/s but i dont strafe at that speed, i do not know if changing the sensitivity on the controller has any thing to do with it but mine is set low i dont COD twitch play. and when have I said anything about lazer hmg ? yes i think there needs to be more racial Hvy varities but of course they need to be balanced unlike what i feel are the rail and combat rifle ( rail should have terrible hip fire at CQC and combat should not be able to hit pinpoint at 80m+ ) but i dont complain on the forums about it i adapt and learn about the weapon. The Little Girl with the HMG
Pocket Rocket Girl Psygod9 134	Posted - 2014.12.12 02:42:00 - [13] - Quote Atiim wrote: Pocket Rocket Girl wrote: HMG is broken even when there is a red in the big circle if he/she isnt in in the dead center little circle no damage will be applied. It's almost as if you're supposed to well you know, aim the weapon. yeah when your trying to track a hoppity skippity jummpity let see you try, there have been plenty of times when umm aiming and just becasue the tiny little circle isnt on the player but they are in the bigger circle damage wasnt applied. most people that give me problems are the KB/M players ( not saying that KB/M is OP or anyhing) even i have noticed a difference in movement compared to teh DS3 The Little Girl with the HMG
Bahirae Serugiusu Vendetta Reactionary Force 356	Posted - 2014.12.12 02:49:00 - [14] - Quote Everything needs a downside. I've killed a few heavies just by distance alone and by exploiting their weak passive scans by shooting them in the worm hole. Light weapons are better as far as range and versatility go but if you need to defend/attack a point (assuming you can get there in one piece) heavy weapons are great. But at the end of the day few heavies can survive a Forge Gun to the face. FYI If a Sentinel is giving you trouble use a Militia Forge Gun and it will tear most heavies apart. The State will always survive.
Victor Moody Stahl Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 214	Posted - 2014.12.12 03:38:00 - [15] - Quote Pocket Rocket Girl wrote: most people that give me problems are the KB/M players ( not saying that KB/M is OP or anyhing) even i have noticed a difference in movement compared to teh DS3 sigh As usual, poorly informed (or plain ignorant) people are regurgitating myths and fabrications. But then again, this is GD, the cesspit of the DUST forums, so I shouldn't even be surprised. In any case, no, the KB/M has never allowed players to "super strafe" or have superior movement in any way compared to those players using the DS3. What you are actually witnessing is the increasing number of players who are abusing the strafe glitch, wherein it is possible for certain suits to strafe fast enough that they actually break hit detection. This is most prevalent on the Caldari Scout, though that is purely due to the lack of plates that it will sport as well as its greater prevalence over the Minja. All scout suits, due to their base speed, can be used to abuse the strafe glitch. The shield-based Assaults (IE, CalSalt and MinSalt) can also be used to abuse the strafe glitch. There is also the fact that circle strafing and figure-8 strafing using a DS3 (as circle strafing is very difficult on a KB/M, and figure-8 strafes might as well be impossible when using KB/M) leverages the varying movement speed between walking forward, backward, and strafing side-to-side. While this (usually) doesn't result in breaking hitreg like strafe glitching does, it's very difficult to properly track someone who's doing one of these maneuvers. As someone who uses the KB/M, I can confidently say that any claims about KB/M movement superiority are completely false. Seriously, I tried to get it to work the way you claim, and it just doesn't. Consider yourself educated. Buff Logis \| Nerf Scouts
LUGMOS YELLOW JESUS EXP FORCE 1099	Posted - 2014.12.12 03:46:00 - [16] - Quote From my opinion, heavies could be changed in a few ways: 1. Make DPS of HMG only slightly better than the AR, its close range competition. However, make the HMG be able to fire longer, albeit with slower cool down rates. This will give the "waves of oppurtunity" effect, the Assault can pester the heavy until it overheats, reloads, or something else. 2. Keep everything the same as currently, but remove sidearm slots EXCEPT on the CalSent, where it will be a unique hit and run heavie with a sidearm, or an AV specialist capable of defending itself from mild infantry threats. These are just suggestions, and just my 2 ISK. Official QuafeGäó Advocate Anti-FoTM Prof. V Forum Scavenger Prof. V
CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 2746	Posted - 2014.12.12 03:48:00 - [17] - Quote Victor Moody Stahl wrote: Pocket Rocket Girl wrote: most people that give me problems are the KB/M players ( not saying that KB/M is OP or anyhing) even i have noticed a difference in movement compared to teh DS3 sigh As usual, poorly informed (or plain ignorant) people are regurgitating myths and fabrications. But then again, this is GD, the cesspit of the DUST forums, so I shouldn't even be surprised. In any case, no, the KB/M has never allowed players to "super strafe" or have superior movement in any way compared to those players using the DS3. What you are actually witnessing is the increasing number of players who are abusing the strafe glitch, wherein it is possible for certain suits to strafe fast enough that they actually break hit detection. This is most prevalent on the Caldari Scout, though that is purely due to the lack of plates that it will sport as well as its greater prevalence over the Minja. All scout suits, due to their base speed, can be used to abuse the strafe glitch. The shield-based Assaults (IE, CalSalt and MinSalt) can also be used to abuse the strafe glitch. There is also the fact that circle strafing and figure-8 strafing using a DS3 (as circle strafing is very difficult on a KB/M, and figure-8 strafes might as well be impossible when using KB/M) leverages the varying movement speed between walking forward, backward, and strafing side-to-side. While this (usually) doesn't result in breaking hitreg like strafe glitching does, it's very difficult to properly track someone who's doing one of these maneuvers. As someone who uses the KB/M, I can confidently say that any claims about KB/M movement superiority are completely false. Seriously, I tried to get it to work the way you claim, and it just doesn't. Consider yourself educated. Totally agree, I have been trying to tell people that this mythical advantage does not exist for KB/M players. On that note, they should try shooting in this game with a mouse and keyboard. We dont get any Aim assist at all so with the way our aiming and control system are currently (READ - gimped) we are always at a disadvantage in terms of gun fights. Hell that's one of the main reasons I like to use the Plasma Cannon and Forge gun so much. They are like 2 of the few weapons that actually work well with the KB/M. DS3 users, try turning aim assist off and play like that for a while. You will then be somewhat closer to the frustration levels we KB/M players feel when engaged in battle. "Also I think knives are a good idea, big f**k-off shiny ones" "Guns for show, Knives for a pro" MY LIFE FOR AIUR!
Imp Smash Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 480	Posted - 2014.12.12 04:12:00 - [18] - Quote The heavy weapons aren't better than light weapons. They are different. Put a heavy with an HMG on ambush in the open field. See how well he/she does... Put a heavy with a forgegun in a building, see how well he/she does.... I have snuck up on someone in my Min Heavy, and burst HMGed em in the back. And then I get hatemail about how my gun is OP or ezmode. Seriously? You are standing still shooting your Combat rifle across the map and are pissed that a HMG melted you...when you are stationary? And that's what a lot of the complaints about heavies boil down to. People engage heavies head to head at 15 meters and die and its unfair. The people who don't complain about heavies (and aren't heavy themselves) either outrange heavies, splash damage them down (not as hard as people like to make pretend), set RE traps, shotgun/NK them, or hit them in the back. I'll say this -- the fact that the VAST majority of objective fights being indoors really gives the heavy way to much of a map advantage. We need far more in the way of open objectives that heavies simply can't cover.
da GAND Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 1042	Posted - 2014.12.12 04:25:00 - [19] - Quote No they have to be different/better in certain areas than a light weapon and vice versa. It's not about being completely better than all other weapons, it's about being able to full fill a role that other weapons cant or are just very difficult to do with. Should Legion be on the ps4?
Joel II X Bacon with a bottle of Quafe 5042	Posted - 2014.12.12 05:30:00 - [20] - Quote Well, due to the size and RoF of the HMG, it IS technically better than its rifle counterpart, and even more so than its sidearm little brother.

Powerh8er The Rainbow Effect 565	Posted - 2014.12.12 05:31:00 - [21] - Quote Duh... Ofcourse it should deal more damage, its a much bigger weapon. Whats the deal with you guys and heavies anyway? If it werent for heavies and shotgun scouts i probably go 40-0 every match in my minassault.
VAHZZ 465	Posted - 2014.12.12 05:33:00 - [22] - Quote Fatties can't run, they hobble. But their weapons tear holes in you faster than chipotle. But I'm still faster than them and their weapons. ~ Proud Sniper Scout
Mortishai Belmont G.L.O.R.Y General Tso's Alliance 279	Posted - 2014.12.12 05:40:00 - [23] - Quote Assault - mid range combatant, used for assaulting a point. Logi - support, not a primary combatant. Scout - Intel and hacking, used to get a man behind enemy lines and disrupt the flow of battle Heavy - Used to hold down a point, close range combat & AV An assault class will win ten times out of ten at 50-60m range, a heavy can't hurt you from that distance unless your standing still and he has a forgegun. Use your role how it was made to be used and you won't have a problem. G.L.O.R.Y Soldier, I'm that Amarr heavy you warn your team about <3 -Heavy/Logi/Assault/Scout-
da GAND Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 1042	Posted - 2014.12.12 05:43:00 - [24] - Quote VAHZZ wrote: Fatties can't run, they hobble. But their weapons tear holes in you faster than chipotle. But I'm still faster than them and their weapons. You ever try using the minmatar heavy? Should Legion be on the ps4?
VAHZZ 465	Posted - 2014.12.12 05:47:00 - [25] - Quote da GAND wrote: VAHZZ wrote: Fatties can't run, they hobble. But their weapons tear holes in you faster than chipotle. But I'm still faster than them and their weapons. You ever try using the minmatar heavy? No, but I can give it a twirl. It can't be as bad as the golden highnie that is an Amarr fatty. ~ Proud Sniper Scout
jane stalin Ametat Security Amarr Empire 40	Posted - 2014.12.12 06:23:00 - [26] - Quote I am all for another type of heavy weapon but it should not be exactly the same as another weapon but with double damage, I would feel silly shooting my laser at a sentinel if he was shooting the same thing back at double strength, At the moment I shoot at HMG outside of its optimal range.
SoTa PoP Titans of Phoenix 5266	Posted - 2014.12.12 06:26:00 - [27] - Quote pagl1u M wrote: I keep hearing from various players that heavy weapons HAVE to be better than Light weapons. me:"the hmg has too much dps" Guy: "It is a heavy weapon, it has to be stronger." I hear players talking about new heavy lazor like a laser rifle but 2x stronger. I think Heavy should only mean "different", there is nothing that says Heavy means "better". the DPS is exactly what makes it different. It isn't better - it has many weaknesses that pretty much give you absolute control in confrontations with them. It's not the heavies fault most player want to be ramboo in a team based game. n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++ I watch anime for the plot
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 18013	Posted - 2014.12.12 06:35:00 - [28] - Quote Heavy Weapons should be Heavy. CPM 1 Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior \\= Prototype Forge Gun=// Unlocked
Kalante Schiffer Ancient Exiles. 845	Posted - 2014.12.12 06:47:00 - [29] - Quote Heavies are fine i think. Except those couple of days when the six was OP that was cray cray. AE.
Jacques Cayton II Titans of Phoenix 1224	Posted - 2014.12.12 07:06:00 - [30] - Quote pagl1u M wrote: Pocket Rocket Girl wrote: HMG is broken even when there is a red in the big circle if he/she isnt in in the dead center little circle no damage will be applied. just because its a Heavy weapon why should it mean better than light weapon? weapons should be situational. people who complain about the HMG need to learn not to stand out in the open learn to strafe. that problem was fixed so it isnt the case anymore, anyway this thread isnt about "hmg is op". You answered my question. Khulmach wrote: Heavy-Heavier-Stronger-Better damage,but slows you down. Ya the weapon should do more damage,its a freaken machine gun. Devastatingly damage love. Do not start talking about real life things, ffs! So why doesnt the hmg slow down the Sentinel? Because its an exoskeleton suit built to carry heavy things at a regular human speed. We fight for the future of the State not our personal goals

QRT30 Rave Technologies Inc. C0VEN 63	Posted - 2014.12.12 09:06:00 - [31] - Quote VAHZZ wrote: Fatties can't run, they hobble. But their weapons tear holes in you faster than chipotle. But I'm still faster than them and their weapons. Except Min. Heavy which I can chase even tanked scouts QRT30 - all Caldari lvl 5, Min/Gal all lvl.3 - core maxed QRT300 - Amarr heavy/commando
QRT30 Rave Technologies Inc. C0VEN 63	Posted - 2014.12.12 09:07:00 - [32] - Quote btw I play all roles. I don't understand all complaints about heavy. If you go to close you will be melt with HMG. Personally I don't have a problems with killing heavies even in paper scout with STD AR. QRT30 - all Caldari lvl 5, Min/Gal all lvl.3 - core maxed QRT300 - Amarr heavy/commando
Vicious Minotaur 1457	Posted - 2014.12.12 09:11:00 - [33] - Quote Heavy weapons should be their own thing that does their own thing, light weapons be damned. I am a minotaur. a+üa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa+üa¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça+üa+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+üa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa+üa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ë
DarK KNigHT007 Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 3	Posted - 2014.12.12 11:00:00 - [34] - Quote HMG should be better in its range.............which is good now . HMG is a beast in cqc medium powered in medium range and useless in long range. its balanced .............................................. u need to know how to take on heavy ...u cant just stand in front of him as hmg is for 1v1 straight fight so u cant complain that it is OP .use ur range of ur weapon to take him instead of complaining SG is a good weapon to take heavy or hmg user in shortrange so use ur BRAINS
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5724	Posted - 2014.12.12 11:02:00 - [35] - Quote OP the answer is both yes and no Heavy weapons should be devastating in their intended area of operation. For example the forge gun is devastating versus vehicles and distant infantry but is anything but efficient inside 30m versus infantry. The HMG is too effe ctive at the moment mostly because map design was adjusted so snipers cannot deny sll of the points. Unfortunately, because maps are currently built so snipers cannot deny ANY points it means the hack points are universally CQC that means sentinel clusters ON the objective instead of sitting at common lines of approach keeping the enemy at a distance. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Hakyou Brutor Titans of Phoenix 1824	Posted - 2014.12.12 11:03:00 - [36] - Quote DarK KNigHT007 wrote: HMG should be better in its range.............which is good now . HMG is a beast in cqc medium powered in medium range and useless in long range. its balanced .............................................. u need to know how to take on heavy ...u cant just stand in front of him as hmg is for 1v1 straight fight so u cant complain that it is OP .use ur range of ur weapon to take him instead of complaining SG is a good weapon to take heavy or hmg user in shortrange so use ur BRAINS Go back to 2nd grade. Knight Soiaire = my bae
pagl1u M Dead Man's Game RUST415 1077	Posted - 2014.12.12 11:08:00 - [37] - Quote Stop telling me to stop complaining, do you even read? This thread is not a "HMG is op!!!" thread! It is only to understand if the answer "It is better because it is heavier" is a legit answer. Because a lot of players think it like that. One of the few assaults you'll find in a PC match!
da GAND Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 1042	Posted - 2014.12.12 14:09:00 - [38] - Quote VAHZZ wrote: da GAND wrote: VAHZZ wrote: Fatties can't run, they hobble. But their weapons tear holes in you faster than chipotle. But I'm still faster than them and their weapons. You ever try using the minmatar heavy? No, but I can give it a twirl. It can't be as bad as the golden highnie that is an Amarr fatty. Well it ain't as tough as the amarr heavy but it's much faster and not something you would focus putting hp modules on. You could even fit it so it's sort of like a scout with an HMG lol. Should Legion be on the ps4?
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency 6364	Posted - 2014.12.12 15:30:00 - [39] - Quote The way heavy weapons are currently made you have yo have a large pool of HP to use it to its full effect. The HMG for example can only achieve high precision if you fire for a long time. You can only do that during a fight if you are able to survive the damage long enough to achieve the pinnacle of effectiveness with the HMG. The Forge gun is similar because if you used a suit with lower HP you would become an extremely easy easy target for CQC weapons and long range weapons. A large pool of HP helps to balance this out. So the biggest difference between a heavy weapon and light weapon is that a heavy weapon practically mandates that you have a large pool of HP to use it to its full effect. Put your flags up in the sky. And wave them side to side. Show the world where you're from. Show the world we are one.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5725	Posted - 2014.12.12 15:41:00 - [40] - Quote Heavy weapons have crossover utility. You can use them against both infantry and vehicles to greater or lesser effect. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.

Vesta Opalus Bloodline Rebellion Capital Punishment. 253	Posted - 2014.12.12 21:50:00 - [41] - Quote pagl1u M wrote: I keep hearing from various players that heavy weapons HAVE to be better than Light weapons. me:"the hmg has too much dps" Guy: "It is a heavy weapon, it has to be stronger." I hear players talking about new heavy lazor like a laser rifle but 2x stronger. I think Heavy should only mean "different", there is nothing that says Heavy means "better". Yes they should be better, but also no they should not be better. Heavy weapons I think should outperform light weapons within a heavy weapons range/damage profile, whatever, however I think all heavy weapons should have weaknesses that make their higher power situational. The HMG is a pretty good example of this, where it is very strong in close range but pretty useless outside of that range (though I think the HMG might need a range nerf, but idk). The forge gun is a horrible example of this, since its just better than other AV at all ranges and does more damage than other AV (except maybe plasma cannon?). In fact I think the plasma cannon (if they buffed the damage a bit more) would fit better into my vision of what a heavy weapon should be than the forge gun, since it does alot of damage but is difficult to hit with outside of close ranges. It would be very strong, but only within a certain sphere of influence.
TYCHUS MAXWELL The Fun Police 674	Posted - 2014.12.12 21:56:00 - [42] - Quote pagl1u M wrote: I keep hearing from various players that heavy weapons HAVE to be better than Light weapons. me:"the hmg has too much dps" Guy: "It is a heavy weapon, it has to be stronger." I hear players talking about new heavy lazor like a laser rifle but 2x stronger. I think Heavy should only mean "different", there is nothing that says Heavy means "better". Cover will render hmgs useless, also not standing next to them. You have to either hit them with high alpha (Shotguns or Knova knives) or you have to stay out of their engagement range. It shouldn't be hard considering fatties are slower than everyone else. There are objectives where heavies can dig in, but you can dig them out with RE's, MD's, FG's, hell even PLC's or bring out your own heavies if you want to be like what most pubs turn into anyways. If light weapons were better up close then hmgs then you will quickly notice that all that e/hp doesn't matter if you can land all your shots and they can't. Ever seen a brick tanked amarr assault (700 armor) caught out in the open without cover? They fold like paper when they can't hide shoot hide shoot their pew pew ScR rifles. Which will get worse for them if they ever decide to make the ScR NOT the best ScR for CQC.
NextDark Knight Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 723	Posted - 2014.12.12 22:17:00 - [43] - Quote heavy weapons should devastate.. No reason why they have to be in the nerfy state t hey are just to appeal to COD players. Over 60+ Million SP and full proto in all Caldari Suits. Dust just won't die on PS3/Xbox. Dustin since 6/29/2012
Jathniel G I A N T 1321	Posted - 2014.12.12 22:45:00 - [44] - Quote I'm not understanding your question, OP. "Should Heavy weapons be better than Light weapons?" That's like asking, "Should a 4 year old be better than a 3 year old?" Doesn't make much sense. What do you mean by "better"? Define "better". Should they have better damage than light weapons? Should they have better dps than light weapons? Should they have better range than light weapons? When you ask "should X be better than Y?" you start getting into the subjective. What do you see as a problem, or anomaly that needs to be fixed? Again, what do you mean by "better"? The HMG is a niche weapon. Meaning it is meant for a certain role, and a certain circumstance. It has a specific place and position to fill. It can be used anywhere, but it excels in cqc. Examples of Niche Weapons: Sniper Rifles (highest alpha, longest range) Laser Rifles (mid-long range crowd control and suppression) HMGs (close range anti infantry and suppresion) Nova Knives (ultra close range anti infantry) Shotguns (close range anti infantry) Remote Explosives (indirect anti infantry and anti armor) Forge Guns (mid-long range anti armor) Mass Drivers (close-mid range crowd control and suppression) These are all weapons that have particular circumstances and places that they excel in. Then you have what are called Utility Weapons. Utility weapons can be used in a multitude of different situations and circumstances effectively. They do not excel at any one role or circumstance, other than being adaptable. They usually function by being aimed and fired, without much thought needing to be given to the circumstance. Examples of Utility Weapons: Assault Rifles Scrambler Rifles Combat Rifles Rail Rifles (not what it used to be) SMGs Scrambler Pistols Ion Pistols Bolt Pistols These weapons can be used effectively in almost any combat situation. They are general purpose. A sniper rifle can kill at almost a half a click away. An assault rifle is not expected to, because it wasn't designed to. Does this mean that the sniper rifle is "better" than an assault rifle? Should the assault rifle be able to do the same as the sniper rifle? Why or why not? If you can answer that, then you can answer your own question. Set your goals high, and shoot for the moon; even if you miss you'll land amongst the stars.
Imp Smash Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 493	Posted - 2014.12.15 00:08:00 - [45] - Quote Quick bump for visibility. There has been a lot of HMG hate (and heavy hate in general) lately and it is nice to see some dissenting opinions. A lot of players don't think heavies are OP or that the HMG is op.
pagl1u M Dead Man's Game RUST415 1109	Posted - 2014.12.15 01:08:00 - [46] - Quote Imp Smash wrote: Quick bump for visibility. There has been a lot of HMG hate (and heavy hate in general) lately and it is nice to see some dissenting opinions. A lot of players don't think heavies are OP or that the HMG is op. You understood nothing of the thread. It has nothing to do with actual hmgs and sentinels. I actually think hmgs and sentinels are OP One of the few assaults you'll find in a PC match!
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 15886	Posted - 2014.12.15 01:13:00 - [47] - Quote In some ways simply.....yeah...... in others no. I mean the HMG is a Gatling Gun It's designed to kill people I would assume with the most over the top application of fire power possible. *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
Imp Smash Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 495	Posted - 2014.12.15 04:01:00 - [48] - Quote pagl1u M wrote: Imp Smash wrote: Quick bump for visibility. There has been a lot of HMG hate (and heavy hate in general) lately and it is nice to see some dissenting opinions. A lot of players don't think heavies are OP or that the HMG is op. You understood nothing of the thread. It has nothing to do with actual hmgs and sentinels. I actually think hmgs and sentinels are OP Maybe I didn't!
SoTa PoP Titans of Phoenix 5361	Posted - 2014.12.15 04:04:00 - [49] - Quote When my HMG can kill something past 35m then people can call it OP. Otherwise, I'm gimping myself using any other weapon because it doesn't have the stopping power enough to make up for my huge hit box and lack of strafe. So until I have an HMG that isn't complete crap Looks at freedom then we WILL dominate CQC because we would have NOTHING otherwise. Soemtimes I wonder why I read GD - it's not worth it and filled with people who make decisions based on ******* PUBS. Go play some PC then come back with a damn opinion. Fighting scrubs doesn't give you any experience what-so-damn-ever. n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++ I watch anime for the plot
pagl1u M Dead Man's Game RUST415 1109	Posted - 2014.12.15 04:08:00 - [50] - Quote SoTa PoP wrote: When my HMG can kill something past 35m then people can call it OP. Otherwise, I'm gimping myself using any other weapon because it doesn't have the stopping power enough to make up for my huge hit box and lack of strafe. So until I have an HMG that isn't complete crap Looks at freedom then we WILL dominate CQC because we would have NOTHING otherwise. Soemtimes I wonder why I read GD - it's not worth it and filled with people who make decisions based on ******* PUBS. Go play some PC then come back with a damn opinion. Fighting scrubs doesn't give you any experience what-so-damn-ever. First of all:again this thread isnt about hmg opness, a lot of players understood it already. Second I do play PC, PC is where you can See more sentinels domination, sentinels are spammed and used bothe to attack and defend, there is little to no use for assaults and Commandos. As a PC player you should understand it. One of the few assaults you'll find in a PC match!

deezy dabest IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP 1332	Posted - 2014.12.15 04:28:00 - [51] - Quote pagl1u M wrote: I keep hearing from various players that heavy weapons HAVE to be better than Light weapons. me:"the hmg has too much dps" Guy: "It is a heavy weapon, it has to be stronger." I hear players talking about new heavy lazor like a laser rifle but 2x stronger. I think Heavy should only mean "different", there is nothing that says Heavy means "better". From a DPS perspective it should SERIOUSLY out class all light weapons (aside from the shotgun) at 5 meters, but have serious fall off as the distance grows. Personally I would estimate around 12-15m it should reach an equal APPLIED dps with light weapons starting to out DPS after that. Current applied DPS does not balance in this way due to hit box issues and dispersion patterns. With this fixed the DPS at short range would actually become slightly lower giving it a touch less advantage as a weapon and more powerful overall in close quarters with a well fit heavy suit.
SoTa PoP Titans of Phoenix 5363	Posted - 2014.12.15 04:32:00 - [52] - Quote pagl1u M wrote: SoTa PoP wrote: When my HMG can kill something past 35m then people can call it OP. Otherwise, I'm gimping myself using any other weapon because it doesn't have the stopping power enough to make up for my huge hit box and lack of strafe. So until I have an HMG that isn't complete crap Looks at freedom then we WILL dominate CQC because we would have NOTHING otherwise. Soemtimes I wonder why I read GD - it's not worth it and filled with people who make decisions based on ******* PUBS. Go play some PC then come back with a damn opinion. Fighting scrubs doesn't give you any experience what-so-damn-ever. First of all:again this thread isnt about hmg opness, a lot of players understood it already. Second I do play PC, PC is where you can See more sentinels domination, sentinels are spammed and used bothe to attack and defend, there is little to no use for assaults and Commandos. As a PC player you should understand it. Please, link me a score board where a heavy dropped 20+ kills and less then 10 deaths, or even made top 10 in WP in a PC match. Thanks. Real OP of a weapon, eh? Can't even get the same KDR as a scout or the WP of a logi. Must be OP!~ Lol n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++ I watch anime for the plot
pagl1u M Dead Man's Game RUST415 1111	Posted - 2014.12.15 04:40:00 - [53] - Quote SoTa PoP wrote: pagl1u M wrote: SoTa PoP wrote: When my HMG can kill something past 35m then people can call it OP. Otherwise, I'm gimping myself using any other weapon because it doesn't have the stopping power enough to make up for my huge hit box and lack of strafe. So until I have an HMG that isn't complete crap Looks at freedom then we WILL dominate CQC because we would have NOTHING otherwise. Soemtimes I wonder why I read GD - it's not worth it and filled with people who make decisions based on ******* PUBS. Go play some PC then come back with a damn opinion. Fighting scrubs doesn't give you any experience what-so-damn-ever. First of all:again this thread isnt about hmg opness, a lot of players understood it already. Second I do play PC, PC is where you can See more sentinels domination, sentinels are spammed and used bothe to attack and defend, there is little to no use for assaults and Commandos. As a PC player you should understand it. Please, link me a score board where a heavy dropped 20+ kills and less then 10 deaths, or even made top 10 in WP in a PC match. Thanks. Real OP of a weapon, eh? Can't even get the same KDR as a scout or the WP of a logi. Must be OP!~ Lol I could ask same things for an assault, the difference is that given the time I could provide the link, you couldnt. If you cant see that PCs are dominated by sentinels you are either blind or lying One of the few assaults you'll find in a PC match!
pagl1u M Dead Man's Game RUST415 1111	Posted - 2014.12.15 04:49:00 - [54] - Quote I ll just leave this here, maybe it ll let someone open his eyes CCP Rattati wrote: That's probably why Missile launchers on Pythons as a combo rank number 4 in PC kills, and the Proto XT-1 Missile Launcher ranks top 4 of PC kills, for the last two weeks Kills Weapons, Heavy, Heavy Machine Guns, Prototype, Boundless Heavy Machine Gun Weapons, Light, Shotguns, Prototype, Duvolle Specialist Shotgun Weapons, Light, Shotguns, Prototype, CreoDron Shotgun Turrets, Missile, Small, Prototype, XT-1 Missile Launcher Weapons, Light, Combat Rifles, Prototype, Six Kin Assault Combat Rifle Weapons, Heavy, Heavy Machine Guns, Prototype, Six Kin Burst Heavy Machine Gun Weapons, Light, Rail Rifles, Prototype, Kaalakiota Rail Rifle Kills by Actor(Pawn) and Weapon Dropsuits, Heavy, Sentinel, Prototype, Sentinel ak.0&Weapons, Heavy, Heavy Machine Guns, Prototype, Boundless Heavy Machine Gun Dropsuits, Heavy, Sentinel, Prototype, Sentinel gk.0& Weapons, Heavy, Heavy Machine Guns, Prototype, Boundless Heavy Machine Gun Dropsuits, Light, Scout, Prototype, Scout gk.0&Weapons, Light, Shotguns, Prototype, Duvolle Specialist Shotgun Vehicles, Dropships, Assault, Python& Turrets, Missile, Small, Prototype, XT-1 Missile Launcher Dropsuits, Light, Scout, Prototype, Scout gk.0& Weapons, Light, Shotguns, Prototype, CreoDron Shotgun Dropsuits, Heavy, Sentinel, Prototype, Sentinel ck.0&Weapons, Heavy, Heavy Machine Guns, Prototype, Boundless Heavy Machine Gun Vehicles, Heavy Attack Vehicles, Standard, Gunnlogi&Turrets, Railgun, Large, Prototype, 80GJ Particle Cannon One of the few assaults you'll find in a PC match!
deezy dabest IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP 1333	Posted - 2014.12.15 05:32:00 - [55] - Quote pagl1u M wrote: I ll just leave this here, maybe it ll let someone open his eyes CCP Rattati wrote: That's probably why Missile launchers on Pythons as a combo rank number 4 in PC kills, and the Proto XT-1 Missile Launcher ranks top 4 of PC kills, for the last two weeks Kills Weapons, Heavy, Heavy Machine Guns, Prototype, Boundless Heavy Machine Gun Weapons, Light, Shotguns, Prototype, Duvolle Specialist Shotgun Weapons, Light, Shotguns, Prototype, CreoDron Shotgun Turrets, Missile, Small, Prototype, XT-1 Missile Launcher Weapons, Light, Combat Rifles, Prototype, Six Kin Assault Combat Rifle Weapons, Heavy, Heavy Machine Guns, Prototype, Six Kin Burst Heavy Machine Gun Weapons, Light, Rail Rifles, Prototype, Kaalakiota Rail Rifle Kills by Actor(Pawn) and Weapon Dropsuits, Heavy, Sentinel, Prototype, Sentinel ak.0&Weapons, Heavy, Heavy Machine Guns, Prototype, Boundless Heavy Machine Gun Dropsuits, Heavy, Sentinel, Prototype, Sentinel gk.0& Weapons, Heavy, Heavy Machine Guns, Prototype, Boundless Heavy Machine Gun Dropsuits, Light, Scout, Prototype, Scout gk.0&Weapons, Light, Shotguns, Prototype, Duvolle Specialist Shotgun Vehicles, Dropships, Assault, Python& Turrets, Missile, Small, Prototype, XT-1 Missile Launcher Dropsuits, Light, Scout, Prototype, Scout gk.0& Weapons, Light, Shotguns, Prototype, CreoDron Shotgun Dropsuits, Heavy, Sentinel, Prototype, Sentinel ck.0&Weapons, Heavy, Heavy Machine Guns, Prototype, Boundless Heavy Machine Gun Vehicles, Heavy Attack Vehicles, Standard, Gunnlogi&Turrets, Railgun, Large, Prototype, 80GJ Particle Cannon Interesting stats. Im sure if you were to show many of those heavies had a repper on them during those kills a different story would be told.Both of the heavies at the top of that list are armor tanking meaning that the chances they were brought there specifically to work with a logi are very high. If PC stats are used at all in balancing this would explain why we have some balance issues that will not go away. Between how many PC battles are simply staged for farming purposes, practice purposes, and the fact that it consists of largely a certain number of people of course the stats are going to be horribly skewed. Trusting these stats in any form would be absolutely a terrible decision. That is like saying a disease is rampant worldwide because you took a sample from one town that it has infected over half of the people.
SoTa PoP Titans of Phoenix 5365	Posted - 2014.12.15 05:37:00 - [56] - Quote pagl1u M wrote: SoTa PoP wrote: pagl1u M wrote: SoTa PoP wrote: When my HMG can kill something past 35m then people can call it OP. Otherwise, I'm gimping myself using any other weapon because it doesn't have the stopping power enough to make up for my huge hit box and lack of strafe. So until I have an HMG that isn't complete crap Looks at freedom then we WILL dominate CQC because we would have NOTHING otherwise. Soemtimes I wonder why I read GD - it's not worth it and filled with people who make decisions based on ******* PUBS. Go play some PC then come back with a damn opinion. Fighting scrubs doesn't give you any experience what-so-damn-ever. First of all:again this thread isnt about hmg opness, a lot of players understood it already. Second I do play PC, PC is where you can See more sentinels domination, sentinels are spammed and used bothe to attack and defend, there is little to no use for assaults and Commandos. As a PC player you should understand it. Please, link me a score board where a heavy dropped 20+ kills and less then 10 deaths, or even made top 10 in WP in a PC match. Thanks. Real OP of a weapon, eh? Can't even get the same KDR as a scout or the WP of a logi. Must be OP!~ Lol I could ask same things for an assault, the difference is that given the time I could provide the link, you couldnt. If you cant see that PCs are dominated by sentinels you are either blind or lying Are you high? When were we talking about assaults? I mentioned Scouts and Logis - when did I mention assaults? You think PC's are dominated by heavies? I don't doubt they make a difference - but again, sow me where they are dominating as a single player rather then as a support role you're having problem removing. They're as OP as the scores they get because of there gear/suit - so show me the damn proof in the hardest / most competitive part of this game or hold your tongue. Thanks. n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++ I watch anime for the plot
Jathniel G I A N T 1323	Posted - 2014.12.15 06:45:00 - [57] - Quote deezy dabest wrote: pagl1u M wrote: I ll just leave this here, maybe it ll let someone open his eyes CCP Rattati wrote: That's probably why Missile launchers on Pythons as a combo rank number 4 in PC kills, and the Proto XT-1 Missile Launcher ranks top 4 of PC kills, for the last two weeks Kills Weapons, Heavy, Heavy Machine Guns, Prototype, Boundless Heavy Machine Gun Weapons, Light, Shotguns, Prototype, Duvolle Specialist Shotgun Weapons, Light, Shotguns, Prototype, CreoDron Shotgun Turrets, Missile, Small, Prototype, XT-1 Missile Launcher Weapons, Light, Combat Rifles, Prototype, Six Kin Assault Combat Rifle Weapons, Heavy, Heavy Machine Guns, Prototype, Six Kin Burst Heavy Machine Gun Weapons, Light, Rail Rifles, Prototype, Kaalakiota Rail Rifle Kills by Actor(Pawn) and Weapon Dropsuits, Heavy, Sentinel, Prototype, Sentinel ak.0&Weapons, Heavy, Heavy Machine Guns, Prototype, Boundless Heavy Machine Gun Dropsuits, Heavy, Sentinel, Prototype, Sentinel gk.0& Weapons, Heavy, Heavy Machine Guns, Prototype, Boundless Heavy Machine Gun Dropsuits, Light, Scout, Prototype, Scout gk.0&Weapons, Light, Shotguns, Prototype, Duvolle Specialist Shotgun Vehicles, Dropships, Assault, Python& Turrets, Missile, Small, Prototype, XT-1 Missile Launcher Dropsuits, Light, Scout, Prototype, Scout gk.0& Weapons, Light, Shotguns, Prototype, CreoDron Shotgun Dropsuits, Heavy, Sentinel, Prototype, Sentinel ck.0&Weapons, Heavy, Heavy Machine Guns, Prototype, Boundless Heavy Machine Gun Vehicles, Heavy Attack Vehicles, Standard, Gunnlogi&Turrets, Railgun, Large, Prototype, 80GJ Particle Cannon Interesting stats. Im sure if you were to show many of those heavies had a repper on them during those kills a different story would be told.Both of the heavies at the top of that list are armor tanking meaning that the chances they were brought there specifically to work with a logi are very high. If PC stats are used at all in balancing this would explain why we have some balance issues that will not go away. Between how many PC battles are simply staged for farming purposes, practice purposes, and the fact that it consists of largely a certain number of people of course the stats are going to be horribly skewed. Trusting these stats in any form would be absolutely a terrible decision. That is like saying a disease is rampant worldwide because you took a sample from one town that it has infected over half of the people. That IS an interesting post. I haven't PC'd in nearly a year. But last time I was there, it was dominated by assaults. Things must have changed horribly for me to be seeing HMGs and Shotguns... AND a ADS missile launcher, dominating the kill count. Heavies, Scouts, and ADS? I mean really? Oh well... Set your goals high, and shoot for the moon; even if you miss you'll land amongst the stars.
Imp Smash Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 497	Posted - 2014.12.16 23:48:00 - [58] - Quote pagl1u M wrote: I ll just leave this here, maybe it ll let someone open his eyes CCP Rattati wrote: That's probably why Missile launchers on Pythons as a combo rank number 4 in PC kills, and the Proto XT-1 Missile Launcher ranks top 4 of PC kills, for the last two weeks Kills Weapons, Heavy, Heavy Machine Guns, Prototype, Boundless Heavy Machine Gun Weapons, Light, Shotguns, Prototype, Duvolle Specialist Shotgun Weapons, Light, Shotguns, Prototype, CreoDron Shotgun Turrets, Missile, Small, Prototype, XT-1 Missile Launcher Weapons, Light, Combat Rifles, Prototype, Six Kin Assault Combat Rifle Weapons, Heavy, Heavy Machine Guns, Prototype, Six Kin Burst Heavy Machine Gun Weapons, Light, Rail Rifles, Prototype, Kaalakiota Rail Rifle I remember that list. Before that list dropped heavies were not spammed in Pubs and heavy complaints were far and few between. One could even argue that being told something is the best makes people think it is the best. Equally possible that heavy is the best (objectively) and that people being told it was the best went and tried it out saying "Hey! These kick ass!" I'm not really sure tbh. But lets take this list at face value. Heavy gets the most kills. (Even though Ratta put this up in discussion about Assault Dropships.) So it must be OP. Here is the proof right? And according to this list the Assault CR outperforms the Burst HMG AND the RR (before RR nerf). So the RR got a nerf, obviously the ACR needs a nerf too as it is not only BETTER than that OP weapon but also because it is better than the OP (as you yourself said) HMG below it. And shotguns. We gotta nerf shotguns because everyone KNOWS they are OP. (Why would CCP nerf the weakest weapon on the list? Wierd) Oh wait -- context. Maybe context is needed. So lets look at the context. What you said earlier, is true. In PC Heavies are spammed for defense and offense. In pubs and FW the heavy spam has steadily increased too. We have even had a few intelligent and thoughtful (even if I disagree with some of them) posts on what we should change on the heavy and HMG. Some of them are quite bold. So obviously something is amiss. But when some of the less subjectively biased members of the community ask their peers "What makes the heavy and the HMG op?" many answers are given that don't take context into consideration, ignore other factors about the suit/gun, or are just plain wrong. ("I got killed by an HMG at 65m! OBVIOUSLY it is OP! [ok I was at 20 HP at the time from a sniper -- but STILL it shouldn't have been able to do 1 damage to me!] #rage") That last is pretty rare of course. Regardless I have RARELY see a member of the 'Heavies/HMGs too powerful' club even acknowledge that HMGs/Heavies are useless outside of 30-40 meters. I have NEVER seen those guys acknowledge lack of strafe and large hitbox (and extra large head hitbox) meaning the heavy actually takes MORE damage from incoming fire than an assault. (you know that problem with scouts where they don't take damage sometimes? Heavies have the inverse of that.) What I HAVE noticed is that people DO acknowledge that objective points are SUPER heavy friendly. People like yourself DO mention that heavies have weaknesses that are pretty much nullified by the TONS of CQC around objectives. In fact that is a favorite arguement. " I CAN'T outrange heavies! They are always inside -- where all the objectives ARE!!!1!one!" But heavies are pretty ****** outside of CQC. In fact they are the weakest suit in the game outside of CQC. So it is both concerning and flabbergasting to me to hear people say "We have to nerf heavies in CQC so other classes have a chance at assaulting these CQC points." That statement in and of itself provides a suggestion (one that I disagree with) but provides a fair and respectable opinion about the current situation. This is because if you nerf heavies down to be as strong as assaults in CQC and heavies are useless out in the open, then the heavy is now inferior to all other suits. The point of being a heavy (except forgegun! I can go rooftop forgegun camp I guess! Let's promote THAT ) goes away. I can switch to an assault (Amarr or Gal need only apply) and ARMOR stack and get a logi to rep me like they did heavies and just burn people down with light weapons. But it's not an HMG killing you so it's cool I guess? Pretty much every person I have seen on the forum that has an open and reasonable mind as WELL as the closed minded folks have acknowledged the fact that CQC is where all the points are. So why nerf the suit so that it literally becomes pointless (on par in CQC -- weak at range -- run assault for same results inside and better results outside -- so literally pointless) when you could change the cap points to not all be in CQC? Why not just make 75% of the points out in the open so that heavies CAN be outranged? Why not make heavies spawn significantly slower so that when one goes down you don't have to worry about him being back in 3 seconds? Why not make heavies unable to operate vehicles and require a driver? Why NOT make the HMG overheat fast so that skirmish tactics (with the current meta!) can overheat them and kill them no problem. (Oh wait we did that one -- and yet no one is using skirmish tactics, they expect to stand and deliver . It is honestly incomprehensible to me. I agree that there are FAR too many heavies in pretty much every game mode. But providing a quick fix bandaid to the problem will just hurt the heavy players and ultimately the overall gameplay of Dust. Heavies and the HMG will stay on a nerf buff cycle like so many other things. And we can ALL agree that the nerf/buff cycle needs to end. So instead of bandaid lets instead change the root of the problem - the situation.
GLOBAL fils'de RAGE Consolidated Dust 77	Posted - 2014.12.16 23:56:00 - [59] - Quote pagl1u M wrote: Everything Dies wrote: Also, it's worth noting that if you aren't going to give heavy weapons some sort of advantage over light weapons, you'll see a return to the 1,600HP monsters wielding rail rifles that will laugh as you take them on at 70m with an assault/scout suit. BUT, unless you want to say that Sentinels are weaker than other suits, that will mean that a Sebtinel+heavy weapon is going to be stronger than a medium+light weapon. This is not balanced. If you are honestly seeking balance grasshopper then skill into sent/hmg.


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