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Should Heavy weapons be better than Light Weapons?

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QRT30 Rave Technologies Inc. C0VEN 63	Posted - 2014.12.12 09:06:00 - [31] - Quote VAHZZ wrote: Fatties can't run, they hobble. But their weapons tear holes in you faster than chipotle. But I'm still faster than them and their weapons. Except Min. Heavy which I can chase even tanked scouts QRT30 - all Caldari lvl 5, Min/Gal all lvl.3 - core maxed QRT300 - Amarr heavy/commando
QRT30 Rave Technologies Inc. C0VEN 63	Posted - 2014.12.12 09:07:00 - [32] - Quote btw I play all roles. I don't understand all complaints about heavy. If you go to close you will be melt with HMG. Personally I don't have a problems with killing heavies even in paper scout with STD AR. QRT30 - all Caldari lvl 5, Min/Gal all lvl.3 - core maxed QRT300 - Amarr heavy/commando
Vicious Minotaur 1457	Posted - 2014.12.12 09:11:00 - [33] - Quote Heavy weapons should be their own thing that does their own thing, light weapons be damned. I am a minotaur. a+üa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa+üa¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça+üa+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+üa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa+üa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ë
DarK KNigHT007 Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 3	Posted - 2014.12.12 11:00:00 - [34] - Quote HMG should be better in its range.............which is good now . HMG is a beast in cqc medium powered in medium range and useless in long range. its balanced .............................................. u need to know how to take on heavy ...u cant just stand in front of him as hmg is for 1v1 straight fight so u cant complain that it is OP .use ur range of ur weapon to take him instead of complaining SG is a good weapon to take heavy or hmg user in shortrange so use ur BRAINS
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5724	Posted - 2014.12.12 11:02:00 - [35] - Quote OP the answer is both yes and no Heavy weapons should be devastating in their intended area of operation. For example the forge gun is devastating versus vehicles and distant infantry but is anything but efficient inside 30m versus infantry. The HMG is too effe ctive at the moment mostly because map design was adjusted so snipers cannot deny sll of the points. Unfortunately, because maps are currently built so snipers cannot deny ANY points it means the hack points are universally CQC that means sentinel clusters ON the objective instead of sitting at common lines of approach keeping the enemy at a distance. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Hakyou Brutor Titans of Phoenix 1824	Posted - 2014.12.12 11:03:00 - [36] - Quote DarK KNigHT007 wrote: HMG should be better in its range.............which is good now . HMG is a beast in cqc medium powered in medium range and useless in long range. its balanced .............................................. u need to know how to take on heavy ...u cant just stand in front of him as hmg is for 1v1 straight fight so u cant complain that it is OP .use ur range of ur weapon to take him instead of complaining SG is a good weapon to take heavy or hmg user in shortrange so use ur BRAINS Go back to 2nd grade. Knight Soiaire = my bae
pagl1u M Dead Man's Game RUST415 1077	Posted - 2014.12.12 11:08:00 - [37] - Quote Stop telling me to stop complaining, do you even read? This thread is not a "HMG is op!!!" thread! It is only to understand if the answer "It is better because it is heavier" is a legit answer. Because a lot of players think it like that. One of the few assaults you'll find in a PC match!
da GAND Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 1042	Posted - 2014.12.12 14:09:00 - [38] - Quote VAHZZ wrote: da GAND wrote: VAHZZ wrote: Fatties can't run, they hobble. But their weapons tear holes in you faster than chipotle. But I'm still faster than them and their weapons. You ever try using the minmatar heavy? No, but I can give it a twirl. It can't be as bad as the golden highnie that is an Amarr fatty. Well it ain't as tough as the amarr heavy but it's much faster and not something you would focus putting hp modules on. You could even fit it so it's sort of like a scout with an HMG lol. Should Legion be on the ps4?
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency 6364	Posted - 2014.12.12 15:30:00 - [39] - Quote The way heavy weapons are currently made you have yo have a large pool of HP to use it to its full effect. The HMG for example can only achieve high precision if you fire for a long time. You can only do that during a fight if you are able to survive the damage long enough to achieve the pinnacle of effectiveness with the HMG. The Forge gun is similar because if you used a suit with lower HP you would become an extremely easy easy target for CQC weapons and long range weapons. A large pool of HP helps to balance this out. So the biggest difference between a heavy weapon and light weapon is that a heavy weapon practically mandates that you have a large pool of HP to use it to its full effect. Put your flags up in the sky. And wave them side to side. Show the world where you're from. Show the world we are one.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5725	Posted - 2014.12.12 15:41:00 - [40] - Quote Heavy weapons have crossover utility. You can use them against both infantry and vehicles to greater or lesser effect. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.

Vesta Opalus Bloodline Rebellion Capital Punishment. 253	Posted - 2014.12.12 21:50:00 - [41] - Quote pagl1u M wrote: I keep hearing from various players that heavy weapons HAVE to be better than Light weapons. me:"the hmg has too much dps" Guy: "It is a heavy weapon, it has to be stronger." I hear players talking about new heavy lazor like a laser rifle but 2x stronger. I think Heavy should only mean "different", there is nothing that says Heavy means "better". Yes they should be better, but also no they should not be better. Heavy weapons I think should outperform light weapons within a heavy weapons range/damage profile, whatever, however I think all heavy weapons should have weaknesses that make their higher power situational. The HMG is a pretty good example of this, where it is very strong in close range but pretty useless outside of that range (though I think the HMG might need a range nerf, but idk). The forge gun is a horrible example of this, since its just better than other AV at all ranges and does more damage than other AV (except maybe plasma cannon?). In fact I think the plasma cannon (if they buffed the damage a bit more) would fit better into my vision of what a heavy weapon should be than the forge gun, since it does alot of damage but is difficult to hit with outside of close ranges. It would be very strong, but only within a certain sphere of influence.
TYCHUS MAXWELL The Fun Police 674	Posted - 2014.12.12 21:56:00 - [42] - Quote pagl1u M wrote: I keep hearing from various players that heavy weapons HAVE to be better than Light weapons. me:"the hmg has too much dps" Guy: "It is a heavy weapon, it has to be stronger." I hear players talking about new heavy lazor like a laser rifle but 2x stronger. I think Heavy should only mean "different", there is nothing that says Heavy means "better". Cover will render hmgs useless, also not standing next to them. You have to either hit them with high alpha (Shotguns or Knova knives) or you have to stay out of their engagement range. It shouldn't be hard considering fatties are slower than everyone else. There are objectives where heavies can dig in, but you can dig them out with RE's, MD's, FG's, hell even PLC's or bring out your own heavies if you want to be like what most pubs turn into anyways. If light weapons were better up close then hmgs then you will quickly notice that all that e/hp doesn't matter if you can land all your shots and they can't. Ever seen a brick tanked amarr assault (700 armor) caught out in the open without cover? They fold like paper when they can't hide shoot hide shoot their pew pew ScR rifles. Which will get worse for them if they ever decide to make the ScR NOT the best ScR for CQC.
NextDark Knight Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 723	Posted - 2014.12.12 22:17:00 - [43] - Quote heavy weapons should devastate.. No reason why they have to be in the nerfy state t hey are just to appeal to COD players. Over 60+ Million SP and full proto in all Caldari Suits. Dust just won't die on PS3/Xbox. Dustin since 6/29/2012
Jathniel G I A N T 1321	Posted - 2014.12.12 22:45:00 - [44] - Quote I'm not understanding your question, OP. "Should Heavy weapons be better than Light weapons?" That's like asking, "Should a 4 year old be better than a 3 year old?" Doesn't make much sense. What do you mean by "better"? Define "better". Should they have better damage than light weapons? Should they have better dps than light weapons? Should they have better range than light weapons? When you ask "should X be better than Y?" you start getting into the subjective. What do you see as a problem, or anomaly that needs to be fixed? Again, what do you mean by "better"? The HMG is a niche weapon. Meaning it is meant for a certain role, and a certain circumstance. It has a specific place and position to fill. It can be used anywhere, but it excels in cqc. Examples of Niche Weapons: Sniper Rifles (highest alpha, longest range) Laser Rifles (mid-long range crowd control and suppression) HMGs (close range anti infantry and suppresion) Nova Knives (ultra close range anti infantry) Shotguns (close range anti infantry) Remote Explosives (indirect anti infantry and anti armor) Forge Guns (mid-long range anti armor) Mass Drivers (close-mid range crowd control and suppression) These are all weapons that have particular circumstances and places that they excel in. Then you have what are called Utility Weapons. Utility weapons can be used in a multitude of different situations and circumstances effectively. They do not excel at any one role or circumstance, other than being adaptable. They usually function by being aimed and fired, without much thought needing to be given to the circumstance. Examples of Utility Weapons: Assault Rifles Scrambler Rifles Combat Rifles Rail Rifles (not what it used to be) SMGs Scrambler Pistols Ion Pistols Bolt Pistols These weapons can be used effectively in almost any combat situation. They are general purpose. A sniper rifle can kill at almost a half a click away. An assault rifle is not expected to, because it wasn't designed to. Does this mean that the sniper rifle is "better" than an assault rifle? Should the assault rifle be able to do the same as the sniper rifle? Why or why not? If you can answer that, then you can answer your own question. Set your goals high, and shoot for the moon; even if you miss you'll land amongst the stars.
Imp Smash Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 493	Posted - 2014.12.15 00:08:00 - [45] - Quote Quick bump for visibility. There has been a lot of HMG hate (and heavy hate in general) lately and it is nice to see some dissenting opinions. A lot of players don't think heavies are OP or that the HMG is op.
pagl1u M Dead Man's Game RUST415 1109	Posted - 2014.12.15 01:08:00 - [46] - Quote Imp Smash wrote: Quick bump for visibility. There has been a lot of HMG hate (and heavy hate in general) lately and it is nice to see some dissenting opinions. A lot of players don't think heavies are OP or that the HMG is op. You understood nothing of the thread. It has nothing to do with actual hmgs and sentinels. I actually think hmgs and sentinels are OP One of the few assaults you'll find in a PC match!
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 15886	Posted - 2014.12.15 01:13:00 - [47] - Quote In some ways simply.....yeah...... in others no. I mean the HMG is a Gatling Gun It's designed to kill people I would assume with the most over the top application of fire power possible. *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
Imp Smash Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 495	Posted - 2014.12.15 04:01:00 - [48] - Quote pagl1u M wrote: Imp Smash wrote: Quick bump for visibility. There has been a lot of HMG hate (and heavy hate in general) lately and it is nice to see some dissenting opinions. A lot of players don't think heavies are OP or that the HMG is op. You understood nothing of the thread. It has nothing to do with actual hmgs and sentinels. I actually think hmgs and sentinels are OP Maybe I didn't!
SoTa PoP Titans of Phoenix 5361	Posted - 2014.12.15 04:04:00 - [49] - Quote When my HMG can kill something past 35m then people can call it OP. Otherwise, I'm gimping myself using any other weapon because it doesn't have the stopping power enough to make up for my huge hit box and lack of strafe. So until I have an HMG that isn't complete crap Looks at freedom then we WILL dominate CQC because we would have NOTHING otherwise. Soemtimes I wonder why I read GD - it's not worth it and filled with people who make decisions based on ******* PUBS. Go play some PC then come back with a damn opinion. Fighting scrubs doesn't give you any experience what-so-damn-ever. n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++ I watch anime for the plot
pagl1u M Dead Man's Game RUST415 1109	Posted - 2014.12.15 04:08:00 - [50] - Quote SoTa PoP wrote: When my HMG can kill something past 35m then people can call it OP. Otherwise, I'm gimping myself using any other weapon because it doesn't have the stopping power enough to make up for my huge hit box and lack of strafe. So until I have an HMG that isn't complete crap Looks at freedom then we WILL dominate CQC because we would have NOTHING otherwise. Soemtimes I wonder why I read GD - it's not worth it and filled with people who make decisions based on ******* PUBS. Go play some PC then come back with a damn opinion. Fighting scrubs doesn't give you any experience what-so-damn-ever. First of all:again this thread isnt about hmg opness, a lot of players understood it already. Second I do play PC, PC is where you can See more sentinels domination, sentinels are spammed and used bothe to attack and defend, there is little to no use for assaults and Commandos. As a PC player you should understand it. One of the few assaults you'll find in a PC match!

deezy dabest IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP 1332	Posted - 2014.12.15 04:28:00 - [51] - Quote pagl1u M wrote: I keep hearing from various players that heavy weapons HAVE to be better than Light weapons. me:"the hmg has too much dps" Guy: "It is a heavy weapon, it has to be stronger." I hear players talking about new heavy lazor like a laser rifle but 2x stronger. I think Heavy should only mean "different", there is nothing that says Heavy means "better". From a DPS perspective it should SERIOUSLY out class all light weapons (aside from the shotgun) at 5 meters, but have serious fall off as the distance grows. Personally I would estimate around 12-15m it should reach an equal APPLIED dps with light weapons starting to out DPS after that. Current applied DPS does not balance in this way due to hit box issues and dispersion patterns. With this fixed the DPS at short range would actually become slightly lower giving it a touch less advantage as a weapon and more powerful overall in close quarters with a well fit heavy suit.
SoTa PoP Titans of Phoenix 5363	Posted - 2014.12.15 04:32:00 - [52] - Quote pagl1u M wrote: SoTa PoP wrote: When my HMG can kill something past 35m then people can call it OP. Otherwise, I'm gimping myself using any other weapon because it doesn't have the stopping power enough to make up for my huge hit box and lack of strafe. So until I have an HMG that isn't complete crap Looks at freedom then we WILL dominate CQC because we would have NOTHING otherwise. Soemtimes I wonder why I read GD - it's not worth it and filled with people who make decisions based on ******* PUBS. Go play some PC then come back with a damn opinion. Fighting scrubs doesn't give you any experience what-so-damn-ever. First of all:again this thread isnt about hmg opness, a lot of players understood it already. Second I do play PC, PC is where you can See more sentinels domination, sentinels are spammed and used bothe to attack and defend, there is little to no use for assaults and Commandos. As a PC player you should understand it. Please, link me a score board where a heavy dropped 20+ kills and less then 10 deaths, or even made top 10 in WP in a PC match. Thanks. Real OP of a weapon, eh? Can't even get the same KDR as a scout or the WP of a logi. Must be OP!~ Lol n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++ I watch anime for the plot
pagl1u M Dead Man's Game RUST415 1111	Posted - 2014.12.15 04:40:00 - [53] - Quote SoTa PoP wrote: pagl1u M wrote: SoTa PoP wrote: When my HMG can kill something past 35m then people can call it OP. Otherwise, I'm gimping myself using any other weapon because it doesn't have the stopping power enough to make up for my huge hit box and lack of strafe. So until I have an HMG that isn't complete crap Looks at freedom then we WILL dominate CQC because we would have NOTHING otherwise. Soemtimes I wonder why I read GD - it's not worth it and filled with people who make decisions based on ******* PUBS. Go play some PC then come back with a damn opinion. Fighting scrubs doesn't give you any experience what-so-damn-ever. First of all:again this thread isnt about hmg opness, a lot of players understood it already. Second I do play PC, PC is where you can See more sentinels domination, sentinels are spammed and used bothe to attack and defend, there is little to no use for assaults and Commandos. As a PC player you should understand it. Please, link me a score board where a heavy dropped 20+ kills and less then 10 deaths, or even made top 10 in WP in a PC match. Thanks. Real OP of a weapon, eh? Can't even get the same KDR as a scout or the WP of a logi. Must be OP!~ Lol I could ask same things for an assault, the difference is that given the time I could provide the link, you couldnt. If you cant see that PCs are dominated by sentinels you are either blind or lying One of the few assaults you'll find in a PC match!
pagl1u M Dead Man's Game RUST415 1111	Posted - 2014.12.15 04:49:00 - [54] - Quote I ll just leave this here, maybe it ll let someone open his eyes CCP Rattati wrote: That's probably why Missile launchers on Pythons as a combo rank number 4 in PC kills, and the Proto XT-1 Missile Launcher ranks top 4 of PC kills, for the last two weeks Kills Weapons, Heavy, Heavy Machine Guns, Prototype, Boundless Heavy Machine Gun Weapons, Light, Shotguns, Prototype, Duvolle Specialist Shotgun Weapons, Light, Shotguns, Prototype, CreoDron Shotgun Turrets, Missile, Small, Prototype, XT-1 Missile Launcher Weapons, Light, Combat Rifles, Prototype, Six Kin Assault Combat Rifle Weapons, Heavy, Heavy Machine Guns, Prototype, Six Kin Burst Heavy Machine Gun Weapons, Light, Rail Rifles, Prototype, Kaalakiota Rail Rifle Kills by Actor(Pawn) and Weapon Dropsuits, Heavy, Sentinel, Prototype, Sentinel ak.0&Weapons, Heavy, Heavy Machine Guns, Prototype, Boundless Heavy Machine Gun Dropsuits, Heavy, Sentinel, Prototype, Sentinel gk.0& Weapons, Heavy, Heavy Machine Guns, Prototype, Boundless Heavy Machine Gun Dropsuits, Light, Scout, Prototype, Scout gk.0&Weapons, Light, Shotguns, Prototype, Duvolle Specialist Shotgun Vehicles, Dropships, Assault, Python& Turrets, Missile, Small, Prototype, XT-1 Missile Launcher Dropsuits, Light, Scout, Prototype, Scout gk.0& Weapons, Light, Shotguns, Prototype, CreoDron Shotgun Dropsuits, Heavy, Sentinel, Prototype, Sentinel ck.0&Weapons, Heavy, Heavy Machine Guns, Prototype, Boundless Heavy Machine Gun Vehicles, Heavy Attack Vehicles, Standard, Gunnlogi&Turrets, Railgun, Large, Prototype, 80GJ Particle Cannon One of the few assaults you'll find in a PC match!
deezy dabest IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP 1333	Posted - 2014.12.15 05:32:00 - [55] - Quote pagl1u M wrote: I ll just leave this here, maybe it ll let someone open his eyes CCP Rattati wrote: That's probably why Missile launchers on Pythons as a combo rank number 4 in PC kills, and the Proto XT-1 Missile Launcher ranks top 4 of PC kills, for the last two weeks Kills Weapons, Heavy, Heavy Machine Guns, Prototype, Boundless Heavy Machine Gun Weapons, Light, Shotguns, Prototype, Duvolle Specialist Shotgun Weapons, Light, Shotguns, Prototype, CreoDron Shotgun Turrets, Missile, Small, Prototype, XT-1 Missile Launcher Weapons, Light, Combat Rifles, Prototype, Six Kin Assault Combat Rifle Weapons, Heavy, Heavy Machine Guns, Prototype, Six Kin Burst Heavy Machine Gun Weapons, Light, Rail Rifles, Prototype, Kaalakiota Rail Rifle Kills by Actor(Pawn) and Weapon Dropsuits, Heavy, Sentinel, Prototype, Sentinel ak.0&Weapons, Heavy, Heavy Machine Guns, Prototype, Boundless Heavy Machine Gun Dropsuits, Heavy, Sentinel, Prototype, Sentinel gk.0& Weapons, Heavy, Heavy Machine Guns, Prototype, Boundless Heavy Machine Gun Dropsuits, Light, Scout, Prototype, Scout gk.0&Weapons, Light, Shotguns, Prototype, Duvolle Specialist Shotgun Vehicles, Dropships, Assault, Python& Turrets, Missile, Small, Prototype, XT-1 Missile Launcher Dropsuits, Light, Scout, Prototype, Scout gk.0& Weapons, Light, Shotguns, Prototype, CreoDron Shotgun Dropsuits, Heavy, Sentinel, Prototype, Sentinel ck.0&Weapons, Heavy, Heavy Machine Guns, Prototype, Boundless Heavy Machine Gun Vehicles, Heavy Attack Vehicles, Standard, Gunnlogi&Turrets, Railgun, Large, Prototype, 80GJ Particle Cannon Interesting stats. Im sure if you were to show many of those heavies had a repper on them during those kills a different story would be told.Both of the heavies at the top of that list are armor tanking meaning that the chances they were brought there specifically to work with a logi are very high. If PC stats are used at all in balancing this would explain why we have some balance issues that will not go away. Between how many PC battles are simply staged for farming purposes, practice purposes, and the fact that it consists of largely a certain number of people of course the stats are going to be horribly skewed. Trusting these stats in any form would be absolutely a terrible decision. That is like saying a disease is rampant worldwide because you took a sample from one town that it has infected over half of the people.
SoTa PoP Titans of Phoenix 5365	Posted - 2014.12.15 05:37:00 - [56] - Quote pagl1u M wrote: SoTa PoP wrote: pagl1u M wrote: SoTa PoP wrote: When my HMG can kill something past 35m then people can call it OP. Otherwise, I'm gimping myself using any other weapon because it doesn't have the stopping power enough to make up for my huge hit box and lack of strafe. So until I have an HMG that isn't complete crap Looks at freedom then we WILL dominate CQC because we would have NOTHING otherwise. Soemtimes I wonder why I read GD - it's not worth it and filled with people who make decisions based on ******* PUBS. Go play some PC then come back with a damn opinion. Fighting scrubs doesn't give you any experience what-so-damn-ever. First of all:again this thread isnt about hmg opness, a lot of players understood it already. Second I do play PC, PC is where you can See more sentinels domination, sentinels are spammed and used bothe to attack and defend, there is little to no use for assaults and Commandos. As a PC player you should understand it. Please, link me a score board where a heavy dropped 20+ kills and less then 10 deaths, or even made top 10 in WP in a PC match. Thanks. Real OP of a weapon, eh? Can't even get the same KDR as a scout or the WP of a logi. Must be OP!~ Lol I could ask same things for an assault, the difference is that given the time I could provide the link, you couldnt. If you cant see that PCs are dominated by sentinels you are either blind or lying Are you high? When were we talking about assaults? I mentioned Scouts and Logis - when did I mention assaults? You think PC's are dominated by heavies? I don't doubt they make a difference - but again, sow me where they are dominating as a single player rather then as a support role you're having problem removing. They're as OP as the scores they get because of there gear/suit - so show me the damn proof in the hardest / most competitive part of this game or hold your tongue. Thanks. n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++ I watch anime for the plot
Jathniel G I A N T 1323	Posted - 2014.12.15 06:45:00 - [57] - Quote deezy dabest wrote: pagl1u M wrote: I ll just leave this here, maybe it ll let someone open his eyes CCP Rattati wrote: That's probably why Missile launchers on Pythons as a combo rank number 4 in PC kills, and the Proto XT-1 Missile Launcher ranks top 4 of PC kills, for the last two weeks Kills Weapons, Heavy, Heavy Machine Guns, Prototype, Boundless Heavy Machine Gun Weapons, Light, Shotguns, Prototype, Duvolle Specialist Shotgun Weapons, Light, Shotguns, Prototype, CreoDron Shotgun Turrets, Missile, Small, Prototype, XT-1 Missile Launcher Weapons, Light, Combat Rifles, Prototype, Six Kin Assault Combat Rifle Weapons, Heavy, Heavy Machine Guns, Prototype, Six Kin Burst Heavy Machine Gun Weapons, Light, Rail Rifles, Prototype, Kaalakiota Rail Rifle Kills by Actor(Pawn) and Weapon Dropsuits, Heavy, Sentinel, Prototype, Sentinel ak.0&Weapons, Heavy, Heavy Machine Guns, Prototype, Boundless Heavy Machine Gun Dropsuits, Heavy, Sentinel, Prototype, Sentinel gk.0& Weapons, Heavy, Heavy Machine Guns, Prototype, Boundless Heavy Machine Gun Dropsuits, Light, Scout, Prototype, Scout gk.0&Weapons, Light, Shotguns, Prototype, Duvolle Specialist Shotgun Vehicles, Dropships, Assault, Python& Turrets, Missile, Small, Prototype, XT-1 Missile Launcher Dropsuits, Light, Scout, Prototype, Scout gk.0& Weapons, Light, Shotguns, Prototype, CreoDron Shotgun Dropsuits, Heavy, Sentinel, Prototype, Sentinel ck.0&Weapons, Heavy, Heavy Machine Guns, Prototype, Boundless Heavy Machine Gun Vehicles, Heavy Attack Vehicles, Standard, Gunnlogi&Turrets, Railgun, Large, Prototype, 80GJ Particle Cannon Interesting stats. Im sure if you were to show many of those heavies had a repper on them during those kills a different story would be told.Both of the heavies at the top of that list are armor tanking meaning that the chances they were brought there specifically to work with a logi are very high. If PC stats are used at all in balancing this would explain why we have some balance issues that will not go away. Between how many PC battles are simply staged for farming purposes, practice purposes, and the fact that it consists of largely a certain number of people of course the stats are going to be horribly skewed. Trusting these stats in any form would be absolutely a terrible decision. That is like saying a disease is rampant worldwide because you took a sample from one town that it has infected over half of the people. That IS an interesting post. I haven't PC'd in nearly a year. But last time I was there, it was dominated by assaults. Things must have changed horribly for me to be seeing HMGs and Shotguns... AND a ADS missile launcher, dominating the kill count. Heavies, Scouts, and ADS? I mean really? Oh well... Set your goals high, and shoot for the moon; even if you miss you'll land amongst the stars.
Imp Smash Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 497	Posted - 2014.12.16 23:48:00 - [58] - Quote pagl1u M wrote: I ll just leave this here, maybe it ll let someone open his eyes CCP Rattati wrote: That's probably why Missile launchers on Pythons as a combo rank number 4 in PC kills, and the Proto XT-1 Missile Launcher ranks top 4 of PC kills, for the last two weeks Kills Weapons, Heavy, Heavy Machine Guns, Prototype, Boundless Heavy Machine Gun Weapons, Light, Shotguns, Prototype, Duvolle Specialist Shotgun Weapons, Light, Shotguns, Prototype, CreoDron Shotgun Turrets, Missile, Small, Prototype, XT-1 Missile Launcher Weapons, Light, Combat Rifles, Prototype, Six Kin Assault Combat Rifle Weapons, Heavy, Heavy Machine Guns, Prototype, Six Kin Burst Heavy Machine Gun Weapons, Light, Rail Rifles, Prototype, Kaalakiota Rail Rifle I remember that list. Before that list dropped heavies were not spammed in Pubs and heavy complaints were far and few between. One could even argue that being told something is the best makes people think it is the best. Equally possible that heavy is the best (objectively) and that people being told it was the best went and tried it out saying "Hey! These kick ass!" I'm not really sure tbh. But lets take this list at face value. Heavy gets the most kills. (Even though Ratta put this up in discussion about Assault Dropships.) So it must be OP. Here is the proof right? And according to this list the Assault CR outperforms the Burst HMG AND the RR (before RR nerf). So the RR got a nerf, obviously the ACR needs a nerf too as it is not only BETTER than that OP weapon but also because it is better than the OP (as you yourself said) HMG below it. And shotguns. We gotta nerf shotguns because everyone KNOWS they are OP. (Why would CCP nerf the weakest weapon on the list? Wierd) Oh wait -- context. Maybe context is needed. So lets look at the context. What you said earlier, is true. In PC Heavies are spammed for defense and offense. In pubs and FW the heavy spam has steadily increased too. We have even had a few intelligent and thoughtful (even if I disagree with some of them) posts on what we should change on the heavy and HMG. Some of them are quite bold. So obviously something is amiss. But when some of the less subjectively biased members of the community ask their peers "What makes the heavy and the HMG op?" many answers are given that don't take context into consideration, ignore other factors about the suit/gun, or are just plain wrong. ("I got killed by an HMG at 65m! OBVIOUSLY it is OP! [ok I was at 20 HP at the time from a sniper -- but STILL it shouldn't have been able to do 1 damage to me!] #rage") That last is pretty rare of course. Regardless I have RARELY see a member of the 'Heavies/HMGs too powerful' club even acknowledge that HMGs/Heavies are useless outside of 30-40 meters. I have NEVER seen those guys acknowledge lack of strafe and large hitbox (and extra large head hitbox) meaning the heavy actually takes MORE damage from incoming fire than an assault. (you know that problem with scouts where they don't take damage sometimes? Heavies have the inverse of that.) What I HAVE noticed is that people DO acknowledge that objective points are SUPER heavy friendly. People like yourself DO mention that heavies have weaknesses that are pretty much nullified by the TONS of CQC around objectives. In fact that is a favorite arguement. " I CAN'T outrange heavies! They are always inside -- where all the objectives ARE!!!1!one!" But heavies are pretty ****** outside of CQC. In fact they are the weakest suit in the game outside of CQC. So it is both concerning and flabbergasting to me to hear people say "We have to nerf heavies in CQC so other classes have a chance at assaulting these CQC points." That statement in and of itself provides a suggestion (one that I disagree with) but provides a fair and respectable opinion about the current situation. This is because if you nerf heavies down to be as strong as assaults in CQC and heavies are useless out in the open, then the heavy is now inferior to all other suits. The point of being a heavy (except forgegun! I can go rooftop forgegun camp I guess! Let's promote THAT ) goes away. I can switch to an assault (Amarr or Gal need only apply) and ARMOR stack and get a logi to rep me like they did heavies and just burn people down with light weapons. But it's not an HMG killing you so it's cool I guess? Pretty much every person I have seen on the forum that has an open and reasonable mind as WELL as the closed minded folks have acknowledged the fact that CQC is where all the points are. So why nerf the suit so that it literally becomes pointless (on par in CQC -- weak at range -- run assault for same results inside and better results outside -- so literally pointless) when you could change the cap points to not all be in CQC? Why not just make 75% of the points out in the open so that heavies CAN be outranged? Why not make heavies spawn significantly slower so that when one goes down you don't have to worry about him being back in 3 seconds? Why not make heavies unable to operate vehicles and require a driver? Why NOT make the HMG overheat fast so that skirmish tactics (with the current meta!) can overheat them and kill them no problem. (Oh wait we did that one -- and yet no one is using skirmish tactics, they expect to stand and deliver . It is honestly incomprehensible to me. I agree that there are FAR too many heavies in pretty much every game mode. But providing a quick fix bandaid to the problem will just hurt the heavy players and ultimately the overall gameplay of Dust. Heavies and the HMG will stay on a nerf buff cycle like so many other things. And we can ALL agree that the nerf/buff cycle needs to end. So instead of bandaid lets instead change the root of the problem - the situation.
GLOBAL fils'de RAGE Consolidated Dust 77	Posted - 2014.12.16 23:56:00 - [59] - Quote pagl1u M wrote: Everything Dies wrote: Also, it's worth noting that if you aren't going to give heavy weapons some sort of advantage over light weapons, you'll see a return to the 1,600HP monsters wielding rail rifles that will laugh as you take them on at 70m with an assault/scout suit. BUT, unless you want to say that Sentinels are weaker than other suits, that will mean that a Sebtinel+heavy weapon is going to be stronger than a medium+light weapon. This is not balanced. If you are honestly seeking balance grasshopper then skill into sent/hmg.


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