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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
5711
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Posted - 2014.12.11 18:05:00 -
[1] - Quote
Thought about it for a bit and realized that the splash resistance to sentinels was primarily for fighting tanks... Which mostly no longer do splash. Missile tanks aren't HORRIBLE for fighting infantry... But they aren't great either.
I'll still scare off an ADS before he ever drops a killshot on me.
And since REs seem to bypass the splash resists anyway, let's swap it for something else and giggle while the mass drivers eject the sentinel spam from reality.
EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
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Stefan Stahl
Seituoda Taskforce Command
875
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Posted - 2014.12.11 18:16:00 -
[2] - Quote
I've been saying this for a while. There's no reason for sentinels to have the splash resistance except making the Mass Driver useless. |
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
3950
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Posted - 2014.12.11 18:45:00 -
[3] - Quote
I always assumed it was there so they would better resist grenades that people throw while breaching an enclosed objective?
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
5712
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Posted - 2014.12.11 19:23:00 -
[4] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:I always assumed it was there so they would better resist grenades that people throw while breaching an enclosed objective?
getting shot at by a gunnlogi has more to do with it. remember the silly little fluff line about Sentinels being set up to go toe to toe with vehicles?
Yeah.
But tank guns have been neutered against infantry. right now only the mass driver is really affected because even a bricked AmSent can usually get out of a nade radius
EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
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Kain Spero
Goonfeet
3952
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Posted - 2014.12.11 19:42:00 -
[5] - Quote
With a coming nerf to REs I think that moving heavies away from having splash resist could work.
Owner of Spero Escrow Services
Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
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Spectral Clone
Abandoned Privilege
Top Men.
3337
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Posted - 2014.12.11 19:46:00 -
[6] - Quote
Also hit the HMG dps with the bat (1/3rd of current dps), and double the range.
EVE: Legion, also known as: Schroedinger's Game, EVE: Limbo, or just "Not-a-game-yet".
My PS3: http://imgur.com/a/5O8ok
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
5713
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Posted - 2014.12.11 20:28:00 -
[7] - Quote
Spectral Clone wrote:Also hit the HMG dps with the bat (1/3rd of current dps), and double the range.
1/3rd of the current DPS drops it below every other weapon in the game. How do you think this is a good idea?
EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
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Kaeru Nayiri
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
304
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Posted - 2014.12.11 20:39:00 -
[8] - Quote
Very relevant thing:
What about the bug when firing missiles from a dropship, where the gunner shoots himself because the missile spawns inside the ship (caused by the ship moving in the direction the shot is being fired).
Right now this bug can be mitigated by using a sentinel. Without splash damage reduction all my gunners will suicide repeatedly ! Not to mention get kicked from FW for 24 hours for having damaged themselves and the ship.
It's time to fix this. Seriously getting old. |
True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
15742
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Posted - 2014.12.11 21:27:00 -
[9] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Thought about it for a bit and realized that the splash resistance to sentinels was primarily for fighting tanks... Which mostly no longer do splash. Missile tanks aren't HORRIBLE for fighting infantry... But they aren't great either.
I'll still scare off an ADS before he ever drops a killshot on me.
And since REs seem to bypass the splash resists anyway, let's swap it for something else and giggle while the mass drivers eject the sentinel spam from reality.
I demand then that Sentinels have their correct racial resistance profiles.
Amarr 3% per level resistance to explosive damage, and 2% to projectile.
*"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
3955
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Posted - 2014.12.11 21:31:00 -
[10] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:Thought about it for a bit and realized that the splash resistance to sentinels was primarily for fighting tanks... Which mostly no longer do splash. Missile tanks aren't HORRIBLE for fighting infantry... But they aren't great either.
I'll still scare off an ADS before he ever drops a killshot on me.
And since REs seem to bypass the splash resists anyway, let's swap it for something else and giggle while the mass drivers eject the sentinel spam from reality. I demand then that Sentinels have their correct racial resistance profiles. Amarr 3% per level resistance to explosive damage, and 2% to projectile.
I'm guessing the logic was "Welp we have 4 suits and screwed up by making 5 damage types....we can't have one particular damage type being resisted by more or fewer suits so uh....um.....make them all resist splash damage to cover most of the explosive damage?"
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
5714
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Posted - 2014.12.11 21:49:00 -
[11] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:True Adamance wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:Thought about it for a bit and realized that the splash resistance to sentinels was primarily for fighting tanks... Which mostly no longer do splash. Missile tanks aren't HORRIBLE for fighting infantry... But they aren't great either.
I'll still scare off an ADS before he ever drops a killshot on me.
And since REs seem to bypass the splash resists anyway, let's swap it for something else and giggle while the mass drivers eject the sentinel spam from reality. I demand then that Sentinels have their correct racial resistance profiles. Amarr 3% per level resistance to explosive damage, and 2% to projectile. I'm guessing the logic was "Welp we have 4 suits and screwed up by making 5 damage types....we can't have one particular damage type being resisted by more or fewer suits so uh....um.....make them all resist splash damage to cover most of the explosive damage?"
I wouldn't be shocked.
EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
3956
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Posted - 2014.12.11 22:02:00 -
[12] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:
I wouldn't be shocked.
Can't tell you how many times I've flipped my desk over with a "F*CK 5 DAMAGE TYPES!" it makes it too damn hard to come up with proper bonuses for a lot of the suits/vehicles/weapons.
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
15743
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Posted - 2014.12.11 22:20:00 -
[13] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:
I wouldn't be shocked.
Can't tell you how many times I've flipped my desk over with a "F*CK 5 DAMAGE TYPES!" it makes it too damn hard to come up with proper bonuses for a lot of the suits/vehicles/weapons.
Technically there are only 4.
Explosive, Kinetic, Thermal, and EM.
However missiles can apply oddly apply whichever kind of damage type they wish........ ammunition damage profiles as you know are only made up of varying allotments of these damage types.
*"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
5715
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Posted - 2014.12.11 22:22:00 -
[14] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:
I wouldn't be shocked.
Can't tell you how many times I've flipped my desk over with a "F*CK 5 DAMAGE TYPES!" it makes it too damn hard to come up with proper bonuses for a lot of the suits/vehicles/weapons. Technically there are only 4. Explosive, Kinetic, Thermal, and EM. However missiles can apply oddly apply whichever kind of damage type they wish........ ammunition damage profiles as you know are only made up of varying allotments of these damage types.
Now if only DUST used those four instead of five profiles? We'd be golden.
EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
15743
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Posted - 2014.12.11 22:28:00 -
[15] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:True Adamance wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:
I wouldn't be shocked.
Can't tell you how many times I've flipped my desk over with a "F*CK 5 DAMAGE TYPES!" it makes it too damn hard to come up with proper bonuses for a lot of the suits/vehicles/weapons. Technically there are only 4. Explosive, Kinetic, Thermal, and EM. However missiles can apply oddly apply whichever kind of damage type they wish........ ammunition damage profiles as you know are only made up of varying allotments of these damage types. Now if only DUST used those four instead of five profiles? We'd be golden.
Explosive
+20% vs armour - 20% vs Shielding
Kinetic
+10 vs Armour -10% vs Shielding
Thermal
+10% vs Shields - 10% vs Armour
Electromagnetic
+20% vs Shielding - 20% vs Armour
I rest my case.
*"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
5716
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Posted - 2014.12.11 22:42:00 -
[16] - Quote
and yet there was a need to add the projectile profile.
EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
15746
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Posted - 2014.12.11 22:52:00 -
[17] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:and yet there was a need to add the projectile profile.
Railguns? Rifles? Same thing right?
*"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
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Aeon Amadi
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
7413
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Posted - 2014.12.11 23:00:00 -
[18] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Spectral Clone wrote:Also hit the HMG dps with the bat (1/3rd of current dps), and double the range. 1/3rd of the current DPS drops it below every other weapon in the game. How do you think this is a good idea?
While I certainly don't agree with a 1/3 drop in DPS, they could use the 10% damage nerf that was applied to every other weapon in the game to increase TTK back in 1.8
Long-Term Roadmap
More Hard Questions
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
3958
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Posted - 2014.12.11 23:02:00 -
[19] - Quote
Pretty much, True. But someone got it stuck in their head that Caldari needed a unique damage type that was neither Thermal nor Kinetic. The EVE system works so so much better.
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
15750
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Posted - 2014.12.11 23:18:00 -
[20] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:
Pretty much, True. But someone got it stuck in their head that Caldari needed a unique damage type that was neither Thermal nor Kinetic. The EVE system works so so much better.
This could even be listed on weapons profiles that when new players begin learning the game they are aware their weapons deals a specific form of damage and can easily identify and work our which damage types are more effective in given situations.
E.G-
A Viziam Scrambler Rifle deals 71.5 Electromagnetic (EM) damage per shot vs the Combat Rifle which can deal up to 90 Kinetic Damage per burst.
*"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Fatal Absolution
20056
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Posted - 2014.12.11 23:29:00 -
[21] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Spectral Clone wrote:Also hit the HMG dps with the bat (1/3rd of current dps), and double the range. 1/3rd of the current DPS drops it below every other weapon in the game. How do you think this is a good idea?
No, it doesn't?
A 1/3rd reduction in DPS will take it to the mid-500s range. 550 DPS with a 60m optimal would be frankly absurd, so I agree that it's a ridiculous proposal but for entirely opposite reasons.
The Federation is not a defined region of space, of planets, of mountains, rivers, or woods. It is a vision.
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Victor Moody Stahl
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
214
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Posted - 2014.12.11 23:34:00 -
[22] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:Spectral Clone wrote:Also hit the HMG dps with the bat (1/3rd of current dps), and double the range. 1/3rd of the current DPS drops it below every other weapon in the game. How do you think this is a good idea? No, it doesn't? A 1/3rd reduction in DPS will take it to the mid-500s range. 550 DPS with a 60m optimal would be frankly absurd, so I agree that it's a ridiculous proposal but for entirely opposite reasons.
I think what Breakin assumed was that the HMG's DPS would be cut down to 33% of the current, which would put it around 250-300 DPS, rather than around 500-550 DPS if the value was reduced by the same value.
As for the OP... as much as I hate to say it, this might be the only way to actually get rid of sentinel spam, because too many people are stupid and think the HMG should be confined to CQC.
There's also the fact that if Large Turrets got splash damage back, we'd probably need to bring back the splash resist on heavies. Of course, it's my opinion that it wouldn't actually matter at that point, since ideally we'd re-role the HMG to long-range suppression fire, instead of the ridiculous mess we have now.
Buff Logis | Nerf Scouts
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Imp Smash
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
475
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Posted - 2014.12.11 23:52:00 -
[23] - Quote
You guys who are tired of having to eject sentinels from CQC can keep going around and around with ideas on how to weaken the class -- but y'all aren't getting anywhere. Y'all keep trying to figure out a way to make sentinels weaker you will reduce sentinel spam. Instead of figuring the CAUSE of the problem and working on that. It's like watching people weeding a garden by cutting the weeds and not pulling them out by the root.
I would suggest y'all devote some time to figuring as to why Sentinels are being spammed instead of just making threads about literally everything under the sun. |
KA24DERT
TeamPlayers
Negative-Feedback
921
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Posted - 2014.12.12 05:42:00 -
[24] - Quote
Awesome.
Just let me know what address I can ship your crow to.
BAN ADVANCED GEAR FROM PUBS | Mass Driver Advocate
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Funkmaster Whale
Whale Pod
2585
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Posted - 2014.12.12 07:45:00 -
[25] - Quote
Imp Smash wrote:You guys who are tired of having to eject sentinels from CQC can keep going around and around with ideas on how to weaken the class -- but y'all aren't getting anywhere. Y'all keep trying to figure out a way to make sentinels weaker you will reduce sentinel spam. Instead of figuring the CAUSE of the problem and working on that. It's like watching people weeding a garden by cutting the weeds and not pulling them out by the root.
I would suggest y'all devote some time to figuring as to why Sentinels are being spammed instead of just making threads about literally everything under the sun.
Because in a game with very high alpha weapons like the HMG, Shotgun, Breach, and CR the easiest way for worse (read: bad) players to play is by stacking as much HP in hopes that they can survive long enough to respond. It's not just the HMG that's the problem. Heavies are running around with rifles in CQC maps because having 1200 HP in a tigh corridor is better than having 400 regardless of how fast you are.
You either play to not be seen or play to survive long enough to shoot back. An Assault, for example, that isn't dampened is pretty much mince meat. If you plan on running around and getting yourself scanned, you better have the EHP to survive getting jumped on. Easiest way? Sentinel.
Follow me on Twitch.tv!
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Vicious Minotaur
1457
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Posted - 2014.12.12 09:24:00 -
[26] - Quote
Still of the mindset that ALL resistances should be removed from Sentinels. They are lame, Passive, invisible, and applicable to every fit.
I could go on and on about why Resistances should be removed in favor of something else, but it seems that everyone is content with lame passive bonuses. There are other, more interesting ways to meet the class requirement endowed by the word "sentinel."
Sieg Heil to the status quo.
I am a minotaur.
a+üa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa+üa¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça+üa+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+üa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa+üa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ë
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Spectral Clone
Abandoned Privilege
Top Men.
3354
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Posted - 2014.12.12 09:31:00 -
[27] - Quote
HMG should have a similar DPS to a rifle, but fire _further_ away than rifles IMO.
Motivation: A bigger mass fired with high power will reach longer than a small mass fired with less power.
EVE: Legion, also known as: Schroedinger's Game, EVE: Limbo, or just "Not-a-game-yet".
My PS3: http://imgur.com/a/5O8ok
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
5723
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Posted - 2014.12.12 10:42:00 -
[28] - Quote
Spectral Clone wrote:HMG should have a similar DPS to a rifle, but fire _further_ away than rifles IMO.
Motivation: A bigger mass fired with high power will reach longer than a small mass fired with less power.
You could put them at range with nearly the DPS they have now with turn speed penalty on the gun itself. Tat way if a sentinel wants to stay alive he best keep assaults outside 20m and scouts outside 25-30 or he gets eaten.
Heavy armor and shield defenses only make sense on a unit that expects to be caught outside of cover a lot where it is guaranteed to take fire.
EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
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Aeon Amadi
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
7419
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Posted - 2014.12.12 19:10:00 -
[29] - Quote
The inevitable problem with all of these proposals is that it doesnt address the core philosophy of how the HMG sentinel became OP in the first place. If the HMG is the irrefutable king of CQC, then what is it's counter? Why use anything else if the HMG is the irrefutable king? Its fairly obvious to see that this mentality has run rampant, just look at any match which has Gallente Research sockets. The buildings often have one or two openings, compete cover from Orbitals, and the only way you're getting in there when it has five HMG heavies is with your own HMG heavies. Mass drivers, grenades, etc qre less effective due to their resistances, as are pretty much any other weapon.
So, if the Heavy community can answer the above question without saying, "Herp derp Shotgun Cloak Scouts" or "Herp derp long range", then they remain OP.
Everything should have multiple counters, even in its own environment ,especially when its as powerful as an HMG Sentinel.
Long-Term Roadmap
More Hard Questions
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Spectral Clone
Abandoned Privilege
Top Men.
3367
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Posted - 2014.12.12 19:13:00 -
[30] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Spectral Clone wrote:HMG should have a similar DPS to a rifle, but fire _further_ away than rifles IMO.
Motivation: A bigger mass fired with high power will reach longer than a small mass fired with less power. You could put them at range with nearly the DPS they have now with turn speed penalty on the gun itself. Tat way if a sentinel wants to stay alive he best keep assaults outside 20m and scouts outside 25-30 or he gets eaten. Heavy armor and shield defenses only make sense on a unit that expects to be caught outside of cover a lot where it is guaranteed to take fire.
Or just implement the LR falloff mechanism, HMG can only do good damage far away i.e 100% dps >20m away. Turn speed can be bypassed with a high DPI mouse and/or GIMX very easily.
EVE: Legion, also known as: Schroedinger's Game, EVE: Limbo, or just "Not-a-game-yet".
My PS3: http://imgur.com/a/5O8ok
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