Waiting for SWBF

--Corps and Large groups of mercs will not be able to go, as a large group, and pub stomp all on the same team.

This is wrong...

Because it's an advantage of the system, not a disadvantage!

Personally, 4-merc squads are fine, but I'm not against keeping 6-merc squads.

CCP Rattati actually directly addressed this on Biomasses Podcast this weekend.

I asked him about it and he is iterating on an idea with the CPM but he's generally looking at changing the base squad size to 4x players and eventually trying to link the squads into a platoon for FW.

Couple thoughts...
1) Until they up the player count per team, having squad size that is divisible into #16 is a workable idea. That said, your tactical options are dramatically different with 6x per squad than 4x per squad if you aren't trying to form a platoon-like element.

2) They will need to re-look warpoints and some balance aspects with any squad size change.

just make a fireteam 4 players have them combine into a squad of 8 and then a platoon for a full team

I like this idea a lot.

I suggest some of the squad functionality be kept for squads within the Platoon.

The leader of squads 1 and 2 should be able to open their squads to their Corp, Alliance, or Public in the squad finder, even if they are from a different Corp and Alliance than the Platoon leader. This would help Coalitions work together, and help fill squads from mercenary Corps or open them to the public.


A Platoon Leader should be able to send an independent Squad Leader a Platoon Invite.

A Platoon Finder tab in the Squad finder, that Squad Leaders can access, would be nice.


Have Platoon Chat replace Team Chat. Have a "No Squad" section that non Platoon members get added to temporarily for the duration of a match to bring the Platoon up to 16 members if it is short. (Squad Leaders in the Platoon can send them Squad invites if they want to take them on for the Orbital WP.)

just make a fireteam 4 players have them combine into a squad of 8 and then a platoon for a full team

... Hence discussion now -- considering past history of 4 man squads being universally hated (and I mean universally -- the squad size increase was the ONLY time EVER we had a change to Dust where there were 0 dissenting opinions) -- do we want to return to 4 man groups? Has the meta and the in game connections matured to the point where that would have fewer downsides than it did way back in closed?

A few possible explanations ...

A. Limited Population
How many squads of six hardened vets are online at any one time? Of that sample, how many are playing on a common battle server? Of that reduced sample, how many are playing the same game mode? Of that further reduced sample, how many are presently waiting in queue?

B. Queue Times / Monotony
If matchmaking were instructed to only produce fair fights, it would need to consistently pit a full vet squad against another full vet squad. At any given time, there are a limited number of vet squads available. This translates to substantially longer queue times. Perhaps more importantly, it translates to fighting the same opponent over-and-over again.

C. Statistical Anomalies
There is a distinct possibility that 6-vet-stomp-squads maintain outlier-grade win:loss ratios. If this is the case (and is considered to be a problem) then squad size reduction is an obvious and tenable solution. If the past is any indication, Rattati doesn't seem to care for outliers. Or stomps, for that matter; a comment by Rattati about soccer teams comes to mind (2014.07.09 19:03, "Hotfix - Episode Charlie: Scotty must die").

First off, let me just say that all of the above is what I was hoping for with this thread. If I may, a few questions to this.

Could you explain C a bit for me? I don't follow and I would like to know how 4 man squads would allow for easier matchmaking.

So there has been a bit of talk about squad sizes here and there and CCP has mentioned that they are discussing it as well. Squad size will have an effect on FW and (so some small extent) PC. I have an opinion on it, which I will soon explain, but wanted to first state that I am typing this thread up, as of now, because I am curious as to what the community opinion is on Squad Size. If you are interested in writing up your opinion for the forums to see in this nobody's (me) thread, please post your opinion in full.

I'm a day X (x=I don't even freaking remember) closed vet. Been around as long as you can be around as general public and back in the day we used to have moving MCCs (yay!) and 4 man squads (boo!.) We ALL hated it. Every day we would ***** about it on mic as there were 5 or 6 people on who wanted to squad up (squad finder didn't exist yet) and 1 or 2 folks would have to start their own tiny squad. (Also since we had to pay Aurum for our Universal Translators to chat in out of match channels we had to have something to ***** about or we would be wasting money!)

But 4 was a nice round number. If we have 4 person squads then it will be much easier to group up for FW. More importantly we could make groups of squads (Platoons) all grouped to go into a FW match together all nice and structured out as we like. It would also be a huge improvement on qsyncing. It would also make it easier to go into PC having the squads already teamed up into a platoon as we like before the countdown timer starts so we can put more time into strategy.

But as I said, 4 people when just doing pubs SUCKS. And I honestly do not want to return to that.


Create two grouping systems. One for Squads and One for Platoons. They would both be in the tabs on the right side of the screen. Right below the 'Create Squad' tab there would be another tab: 'Create Platoon.'

Note: The two systems would have to be able to play together. Ie. they are not split into different matches.


Create Squad would exist as it is. Works in all game modes. 6 people max. Mostly people would use it for pubs but it would retain the flexibility it has for FW and PC.

Create Platoon would essentially create the team grouping before loading into game (outside of Scotty.) People can be invited as normal and squads can be dynamically sized (as they can be now -- this is all already in game and no coding or even changes are needed) based upon the strategy inherent. Platoon would ONLY function in FW and PC game modes. You cannot join a Pub as part of a platoon.

The platoon leader is the person who created the platoon initially, controls which battle they enter, and is Squad leader of Squad 0.


--Corps and Large groups of mercs will not be able to go, as a large group, and pub stomp all on the same team.
--Depending on coding may exclude the ability of people in squads or separate platoons from being merged. (or this problem may completely not exist; I have no idea how Dust is programmed.)


--Easier, rounder numbers for FW.
--Easier to get everyone in your group into the same game
--Easier organization, setup, and communication before game
--Shorter wait times for matches as your team is already put together (especially when running against other Platoons)
--Would be especially useful if a separate Platoon Finder tab was implemented allowing random players that want to jump on a team and make a more serious run of FW to find other like minded (and like Factioned) people. Would cut down on all of those XXX Faction Warfare squads that just run 6 and tend to get stomped by the full 16 person Qsynced groups.

That's my thought. I would like to hear everyone's opinion on the current squad system and what else they think CCP should do. Interesting discussion go!

Let me be clear Void. The above suggestion is for NON pubs ONLY. It wouldn't work in Amb, Dom, or Skirm. PC and Factional only. For exactly the reason you just said.

I suspect that Ambush matchmaking/competition would benefit substantially from reduced squad size. And to a lesser degree Dom and Skirm; I'd pay good money to never have to wait out a redline match again.