| Pages: 1 2 :: [one page] |
|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game
RUST415
1665
   |
Posted - 2014.12.07 03:19:00 -
[1] - Quote
i am looking forward to it.
so it kills off spam. im a full time logi and get between 500-2000 wp per match and thats with a Shaman suit and i don't spam at all. if you feel you require spam in order to feel like you are performing well, then perhaps the issue is with you and not the game
as for losing equipment if you change suit with a lower bandwidth then so be it. you can't use RE when you change gear and has that ever been an issue. you running out there and spamming 9 uplinks/hives then changing into an assault etc is not only spam but its taking away from those players who have their entire role based around using that equipment. its not fair on them if you spam all that equipment then change out leaving them who have to keep their logi suit the whole fight with much less demand on them yet most players feel a logi killing a player has always been an issue. i see bandwidth as the reverse on that issue.
you should not be allowed to have the best of both worlds. it should be 1 or the other and bandwidth will do this.
im looking forward to the increased carry capacity and as a fulltime logi being able to move my equipment with me as the fight progresses finally. bandwidth is going to be a breath of fresh air for those serious about being a logi and not just milking it for wp
All Hail Legion
|
deezy dabest
IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP
1213
|
Posted - 2014.12.07 03:29:00 -
[2] - Quote
ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:i am looking forward to it.
so it kills off spam. im a full time logi and get between 500-2000 wp per match and thats with a Shaman suit and i don't spam at all. if you feel you require spam in order to feel like you are performing well, then perhaps the issue is with you and not the game
as for losing equipment if you change suit with a lower bandwidth then so be it. you can't use RE when you change gear and has that ever been an issue. you running out there and spamming 9 uplinks/hives then changing into an assault etc is not only spam but its taking away from those players who have their entire role based around using that equipment. its not fair on them if you spam all that equipment then change out leaving them who have to keep their logi suit the whole fight with much less demand on them yet most players feel a logi killing a player has always been an issue. i see bandwidth as the reverse on that issue.
you should not be allowed to have the best of both worlds. it should be 1 or the other and bandwidth will do this.
im looking forward to the increased carry capacity and as a fulltime logi being able to move my equipment with me as the fight progresses finally. bandwidth is going to be a breath of fresh air for those serious about being a logi and not just milking it for wp
For me its not bad because its killing spam. It is bad because it is locking people into a role when we simply do not have enough players in a match to do that. With only 16 v 16 it is important for people to be able to change roles to what is needed.
What happens when the person that has uplinks out feels the need to go A/V due to being killed by a tank? The whole team gets screwed and potentially the match lost unless he has made an A/V suit on a logi which will be terrible in most cases thanks to their poor speed and inability to defend against any attacking infantry.
|
DeadlyAztec11
Ostrakon Agency
6311
|
Posted - 2014.12.07 03:31:00 -
[3] - Quote
All these people feel entitled to leech off of equipment spam because they don't want to be dedicated Logistics or they wish for easily acquired points. The fact of the matter is that in Dust you don't get to simply get all that you came for; you can't get your cake and eat it to. No, you must always have yo put yourself at risk to get what you want and equipment spam has fouled this reality in Dust. Therefore, it needs to be ended.
Put your flags up in the sky.
And wave them side to side.
Show the world where you're from.
Show the world we are one.
|
ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game
RUST415
1665
|
Posted - 2014.12.07 03:36:00 -
[4] - Quote
the whole change out to fulfill a different role is just that. a different role with different features. you can try and maintain your old role while doing you new role but would suffer in some way. is this not something reasonable to expect. currently you do not suffer anything by changing suit yet benefit more than those who don't change suits. this is a big issue to me.
All Hail Legion
|
DeadlyAztec11
Ostrakon Agency
6311
|
Posted - 2014.12.07 03:37:00 -
[5] - Quote
deezy dabest wrote:ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:i am looking forward to it.
so it kills off spam. im a full time logi and get between 500-2000 wp per match and thats with a Shaman suit and i don't spam at all. if you feel you require spam in order to feel like you are performing well, then perhaps the issue is with you and not the game
as for losing equipment if you change suit with a lower bandwidth then so be it. you can't use RE when you change gear and has that ever been an issue. you running out there and spamming 9 uplinks/hives then changing into an assault etc is not only spam but its taking away from those players who have their entire role based around using that equipment. its not fair on them if you spam all that equipment then change out leaving them who have to keep their logi suit the whole fight with much less demand on them yet most players feel a logi killing a player has always been an issue. i see bandwidth as the reverse on that issue.
you should not be allowed to have the best of both worlds. it should be 1 or the other and bandwidth will do this.
im looking forward to the increased carry capacity and as a fulltime logi being able to move my equipment with me as the fight progresses finally. bandwidth is going to be a breath of fresh air for those serious about being a logi and not just milking it for wp
For me its not bad because its killing spam. It is bad because it is locking people into a role when we simply do not have enough players in a match to do that. With only 16 v 16 it is important for people to be able to change roles to what is needed. What happens when the person that has uplinks out feels the need to go A/V due to being killed by a tank? The whole team gets screwed and potentially the match lost unless he has made an A/V suit on a logi which will be terrible in most cases thanks to their poor speed and inability to defend against any attacking infantry.
Players aren't meant to be able to switch dropsuits so easily as to make them invulnerable to any situations.
CCP is specifically trying to eliminate players who simply farm from their equipment because those players can play two roles at the same time. They get an unfair amount of War Points and ISK/LP because even the most terrible of players can throw a ton of equipment around a supply depot.
Put your flags up in the sky.
And wave them side to side.
Show the world where you're from.
Show the world we are one.
|
deezy dabest
IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP
1214
|
Posted - 2014.12.07 03:39:00 -
[6] - Quote
ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:the whole change out to fulfill a different role is just that. a different role with different features. you can try and maintain your old role while doing you new role but would suffer in some way. is this not something reasonable to expect. currently you do not suffer anything by changing suit yet benefit more than those who don't change suits. this is a big issue to me.
This would be great if we had 30 - 40 people per side and not 1/4 of the team either AFK or total newbs thrown in by Scotty. With 16 v 16 it is totally necessary to be able to switch to whatever is neeeded.
|
ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game
RUST415
1665
|
Posted - 2014.12.07 03:46:00 -
[7] - Quote
deezy dabest wrote:ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:the whole change out to fulfill a different role is just that. a different role with different features. you can try and maintain your old role while doing you new role but would suffer in some way. is this not something reasonable to expect. currently you do not suffer anything by changing suit yet benefit more than those who don't change suits. this is a big issue to me. This would be great if we had 30 - 40 people per side and not 1/4 of the team either AFK or total newbs thrown in by Scotty. With 16 v 16 it is totally necessary to be able to switch to whatever is neeeded.
nothing is stopping anyone switching roles to whatever is needed. all bandwidth does is gives you a risk and means you don't have 2 perfect roles when you do so
All Hail Legion
|
Clone D
Grundstein Automation
970
|
Posted - 2014.12.07 03:53:00 -
[8] - Quote
We're going to have less uplink deployment in safe, durable areas due to disappearing uplinks when logis swap out to perform other functions, or due to demoralization and people giving up on deploying uplinks, or due to more foot soldiers carrying 1 uplink and deploying it in a hazardous zone where it could easily be camped or REd.
We're going to have more uplink destruction due to new OBs.
It's going to become REDLINE MADNESS. Less uplinks + more uplink destruction.
I predict that any slightly asymetrically matched games will end in redlining the losing team, resulting in even more redlining than we already experience today.
ISK Trader
channel: blitz
|
deezy dabest
IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP
1216
|
Posted - 2014.12.07 03:57:00 -
[9] - Quote
ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:deezy dabest wrote:ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:the whole change out to fulfill a different role is just that. a different role with different features. you can try and maintain your old role while doing you new role but would suffer in some way. is this not something reasonable to expect. currently you do not suffer anything by changing suit yet benefit more than those who don't change suits. this is a big issue to me. This would be great if we had 30 - 40 people per side and not 1/4 of the team either AFK or total newbs thrown in by Scotty. With 16 v 16 it is totally necessary to be able to switch to whatever is neeeded. nothing is stopping anyone switching roles to whatever is needed. all bandwidth does is gives you a risk and means you don't have 2 perfect roles when you do so
Proto stomping teams will gain a giant advantage as they generally spawn less and have the ability to better protect 1 or 2 dedicated logis.
New berries who have little knowledge of this slightly over complicated mechanic are not going to be able to manage efficiently leading to worse stomps when Scotty does what he does worst. I have already seen some interesting questions when trying to explain to new(ish) players and when I proposed the question of how this mechanic would be explained there was little response. Simply put this is very bad for NPE.
|
DeadlyAztec11
Ostrakon Agency
6311
|
Posted - 2014.12.07 04:07:00 -
[10] - Quote
Clone D wrote:We're going to have less uplink deployment in safe, durable areas due to disappearing uplinks when logis swap out to perform other functions, or due to demoralization and people giving up on deploying uplinks, or due to more foot soldiers carrying 1 uplink and deploying it in a hazardous zone where it could easily be camped or REd.
We're going to have more uplink destruction due to new OBs.
It's going to become REDLINE MADNESS. Less uplinks + more uplink destruction.
I predict that any slightly asymetrically matched games will end in redlining the losing team, resulting in even more redlining than we already experience today.
Most uplinks are placed in terrible areas anyways. The people that are dedicated to placing good uplinks will still be there.
Put your flags up in the sky.
And wave them side to side.
Show the world where you're from.
Show the world we are one.
|
|
|
DeadlyAztec11
Ostrakon Agency
6312
|
Posted - 2014.12.07 04:10:00 -
[11] - Quote
deezy dabest wrote:
Proto stomping teams will gain a giant advantage as they generally spawn less and have the ability to better protect 1 or 2 dedicated logis.
New berries who have little knowledge of this slightly over complicated mechanic are not going to be able to manage efficiently leading to worse stomps when Scotty does what he does worst. I have already seen some interesting questions when trying to explain to new(ish) players and when I proposed the question of how this mechanic would be explained there was little response. Simply put this is very bad for NPE.
Proto stompers are the ones who abuse equipment spam more than anyone else. They even use the lag that spam induces to their advantage.
Put your flags up in the sky.
And wave them side to side.
Show the world where you're from.
Show the world we are one.
|
ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game
RUST415
1666
|
Posted - 2014.12.07 04:11:00 -
[12] - Quote
Clone D wrote:We're going to have less uplink deployment in safe, durable areas due to disappearing uplinks when logis swap out to perform other functions, or due to demoralization and people giving up on deploying uplinks, or due to more foot soldiers carrying 1 uplink and deploying it in a hazardous zone where it could easily be camped or REd.
We're going to have more uplink destruction due to new OBs.
It's going to become REDLINE MADNESS. Less uplinks + more uplink destruction.
I predict that any slightly asymetrically matched games will end in redlining the losing team, resulting in even more redlining than we already experience today.
my suit has a basic uplink currently as i'm training out my bad habits by using basic gear and my uplinks have no end to players using them. this says to me 90% of the other uplinks on the field are completely useless anyway. i am doing my job getting players into battle at the right location. to say spam is the only way to get players into a fight is just absolute nonsense.
there is a lot of panic about this and it only revolves around a single person dropping all his equipment and most of it in useless locations on the field and then changing suit straight away. as for redline madness it cannot happen anymore due to the new spawn locations both in and out of the redline and with cloaks there will always be an uplink somewhere to use. its a little nieve to assume every player will instantly give up and remain in the redline because they can't get an uplink.
players will adapt as they always have.
as for the new orbitals. you forgot to consider the new stats to equipment making them harder to detect. there will be less equipment and in most cases will be needing strategic placement but it will be harder to see
All Hail Legion
|
Bethhy
Ancient Exiles.
2548
|
Posted - 2014.12.07 04:17:00 -
[13] - Quote
ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:i am looking forward to it.
so it kills off spam. im a full time logi and get between 500-2000 wp per match and thats with a Shaman suit and i don't spam at all. if you feel you require spam in order to feel like you are performing well, then perhaps the issue is with you and not the game
as for losing equipment if you change suit with a lower bandwidth then so be it. you can't use RE when you change gear and has that ever been an issue. you running out there and spamming 9 uplinks/hives then changing into an assault etc is not only spam but its taking away from those players who have their entire role based around using that equipment. its not fair on them if you spam all that equipment then change out leaving them who have to keep their logi suit the whole fight with much less demand on them yet most players feel a logi killing a player has always been an issue. i see bandwidth as the reverse on that issue.
you should not be allowed to have the best of both worlds. it should be 1 or the other and bandwidth will do this.
im looking forward to the increased carry capacity and as a fulltime logi being able to move my equipment with me as the fight progresses finally. bandwidth is going to be a breath of fresh air for those serious about being a logi and not just milking it for wp
The people who feel that this bandwidth nerf is about "Spam" Have taken the bait and bought every piece of the farm that CCP is trying to sell you.
Spam is an issue we have had in DUST for over 2 years. CCP Knows of this problem. The Entire community has known about this problem. If Bandwidth was just about spamm it would of been introduced a year ago.
The problem with Bandwidth a year ago.. IS the average DUST Mercenary on these forums actually knew what the hell was going on.
Bandwidth will hurt the very "Sandbox" nature of the game that makes it so special to fix a mechanic that has been broken for 2 years.
We could of limited the equipment use around supply depots, limited equipment drop-ability in proximity to each other...
But instead it is putting a hard cap on equipment use for every suit and every class and every role in a sandbox game.
Then you add the fact that CCP Shanghai has a history of introducing half fast lazy fixes to problems, Like Vehicle Locking, Matchmaking. Hit Detection, Needles.
This is another one of those fixes, sprinkled with chocolate syrup to try and get you to take a bite. |
Clone D
Grundstein Automation
970
|
Posted - 2014.12.07 04:19:00 -
[14] - Quote
ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:Clone D wrote:We're going to have less uplink deployment in safe, durable areas due to disappearing uplinks when logis swap out to perform other functions, or due to demoralization and people giving up on deploying uplinks, or due to more foot soldiers carrying 1 uplink and deploying it in a hazardous zone where it could easily be camped or REd.
We're going to have more uplink destruction due to new OBs.
It's going to become REDLINE MADNESS. Less uplinks + more uplink destruction.
I predict that any slightly asymetrically matched games will end in redlining the losing team, resulting in even more redlining than we already experience today. my suit has a basic uplink currently as i'm training out my bad habits by using basic gear and my uplinks have no end to players using them. this says to me 90% of the other uplinks on the field are completely useless anyway. i am doing my job getting players into battle at the right location. to say spam is the only way to get players into a fight is just absolute nonsense. there is a lot of panic about this and it only revolves around a single person dropping all his equipment and most of it in useless locations on the field and then changing suit straight away. as for redline madness it cannot happen anymore due to the new spawn locations both in and out of the redline and with cloaks there will always be an uplink somewhere to use. its a little nieve to assume every player will instantly give up and remain in the redline because they can't get an uplink. players will adapt as they always have. as for the new orbitals. you forgot to consider the new stats to equipment making them harder to detect. there will be less equipment and in most cases will be needing strategic placement but it will be harder to see
Do you personally stay near your ground-deployed uplinks, watch over them, protect them, ensure they aren't getting camped, or REd? If so, then you are doing a good job providing a safe place to spawn in. If not, then it is a hazard to spawn from those uplinks that can easily be exploited by hostiles.
Uplinks that are deployed in spaces that are unreachable by foot soldiers are much more secure and durable. I don't hear soldiers that spawn on top of a building or high structure complaining that they got camped. I do hear complaints of camping around CRUs and ground-deployed uplinks all of the time.
If my team gets redlined, then I will fly out and drop 1 uplink at about 5 separate (100+ meters apart) strategic locations. Why? Because nobody else had the sense to maintain battlefield mobility in the form of secure, durable uplinks.
ISK Trader
channel: blitz
|
Meeko Fent
Kirkinen Risk Control
Caldari State
2218
|
Posted - 2014.12.07 04:23:00 -
[15] - Quote
deezy dabest wrote:ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:the whole change out to fulfill a different role is just that. a different role with different features. you can try and maintain your old role while doing you new role but would suffer in some way. is this not something reasonable to expect. currently you do not suffer anything by changing suit yet benefit more than those who don't change suits. this is a big issue to me. This would be great if we had 30 - 40 people per side and not 1/4 of the team either AFK or total newbs thrown in by Scotty. With 16 v 16 it is totally necessary to be able to switch to whatever is neeeded.
*cough*
Why?
Why? You seem to like saying that (I've seen that statement since the beginning of this debacle), but also no real proof that that's not just BS coughed up by you guys.
You have 2 Squads and 2 randoms in that structure. Theoretically.
A squad is 6 People. If One is Heavy, One is Logi, One is Scout(legit scout), and Three are Assault, You pretty much have the bases covered.
If you are solo, why do you need to go and drop copious amounts of equip? There are already 2 folks on the team spending copious amounts of time dropping copious amounts of equip. They are dropping the Links and Hives for their squad, and for all to use.
Of course, Having Hives for yourself is always smart, and having links is also a good idea. Tactical Flexibility. But ultimately, if your a solo logi (or trying to pretend to be one), You are going to do a **** job overall. The people you rep will love you, but the team overall gains nothing.
I Live for Tears
|
ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game
RUST415
1666
|
Posted - 2014.12.07 04:34:00 -
[16] - Quote
Clone D wrote:ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:Clone D wrote:We're going to have less uplink deployment in safe, durable areas due to disappearing uplinks when logis swap out to perform other functions, or due to demoralization and people giving up on deploying uplinks, or due to more foot soldiers carrying 1 uplink and deploying it in a hazardous zone where it could easily be camped or REd.
We're going to have more uplink destruction due to new OBs.
It's going to become REDLINE MADNESS. Less uplinks + more uplink destruction.
I predict that any slightly asymetrically matched games will end in redlining the losing team, resulting in even more redlining than we already experience today. my suit has a basic uplink currently as i'm training out my bad habits by using basic gear and my uplinks have no end to players using them. this says to me 90% of the other uplinks on the field are completely useless anyway. i am doing my job getting players into battle at the right location. to say spam is the only way to get players into a fight is just absolute nonsense. there is a lot of panic about this and it only revolves around a single person dropping all his equipment and most of it in useless locations on the field and then changing suit straight away. as for redline madness it cannot happen anymore due to the new spawn locations both in and out of the redline and with cloaks there will always be an uplink somewhere to use. its a little nieve to assume every player will instantly give up and remain in the redline because they can't get an uplink. players will adapt as they always have. as for the new orbitals. you forgot to consider the new stats to equipment making them harder to detect. there will be less equipment and in most cases will be needing strategic placement but it will be harder to see Do you personally stay near your ground-deployed uplinks, watch over them, protect them, ensure they aren't getting camped, or REd? If so, then you are doing a good job providing a safe place to spawn in. If not, then it is a hazard to spawn from those uplinks that can easily be exploited by hostiles. Uplinks that are deployed in spaces that are unreachable by foot soldiers are much more secure and durable. I don't hear soldiers that spawn on top of a building or high structure complaining that they got camped. I do hear complaints of camping around CRUs and ground-deployed uplinks all of the time. If my team gets redlined, then I will fly out and drop 1 uplink at about 5 separate (100+ meters apart) strategic locations. Why? Because nobody else had the sense to maintain battlefield mobility in the form of secure, durable uplinks.
did you read the dev post on the new equipment or did you just automatically assume the worse. uplinks will have a scan radius the same as the CRUs so harder to camp unseen. also we will be able to carry more so players will be able to place those uplinks where required so wont need to protect their old ones no where near the action as they will be destroyed.
by all means fit an uplink. fly it somewhere safe and deploy it. you only need one down to get players back into the fight and let the logistics that spawn in deal with dropping of extra uplinks. do you need to drop 5+ uplinks all over the map when 1 will do the job. if it fails by all means drop another somewhere else.
you are a prime example of why we need bandwidth to combat this kind of spamming. this kind of spam is not needed. your in a dropship. why not actually use it to drop players off into battle. that is also an issue for dust. most dropships are only used for the purpose you suggest for dropping of uplinks in hard to reach places. it should be the dropship itself getting players into hard to reach places not the uplinks.
All Hail Legion
|
Clone D
Grundstein Automation
970
|
Posted - 2014.12.07 04:41:00 -
[17] - Quote
Meeko Fent wrote:If you are solo, why do you need to go and drop copious amounts of equip? There are already 2 folks on the team spending copious amounts of time dropping copious amounts of equip. They are dropping the Links and Hives for their squad, and for all to use.
Of course, Having Hives for yourself is always smart, and having links is also a good idea. Tactical Flexibility. But ultimately, if your a solo logi (or trying to pretend to be one), You are going to do a **** job overall. The people you rep will love you, but the team overall gains nothing.
If ground-deployed uplinks are left unattended, friendlies get camped and REd. Asking squadded logis to fly up and deploy links on high structures, separates them from their squad.
Unless the squad sticks around and defends/guards the uplinks, they can be removed/camped/REd by hostiles.
The job of deploying a single uplink to various strategic high structures, unreachable by enemy foot soldiers, is a job for a lonewolf. I don't know any lonewolves who will want to spend the entire remainder of the match in a logi outfit.
So, for logis to do a good job, they had better deploy uplinks to secure, durable places. And the squad should stick around and protect uplinks that are in hazardous zones. Otherwise, the deployed uplinks are doing the team a disservice.
ISK Trader
channel: blitz
|
deezy dabest
IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP
1219
|
Posted - 2014.12.07 04:56:00 -
[18] - Quote
DeadlyAztec11 wrote:deezy dabest wrote:
Proto stomping teams will gain a giant advantage as they generally spawn less and have the ability to better protect 1 or 2 dedicated logis.
New berries who have little knowledge of this slightly over complicated mechanic are not going to be able to manage efficiently leading to worse stomps when Scotty does what he does worst. I have already seen some interesting questions when trying to explain to new(ish) players and when I proposed the question of how this mechanic would be explained there was little response. Simply put this is very bad for NPE.
Proto stompers are the ones who abuse equipment spam more than anyone else. They even use the lag that spam induces to their advantage.
Lol you obviously have never ran with real proto stompers. |
ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game
RUST415
1666
|
Posted - 2014.12.07 04:56:00 -
[19] - Quote
Clone D wrote:Meeko Fent wrote:If you are solo, why do you need to go and drop copious amounts of equip? There are already 2 folks on the team spending copious amounts of time dropping copious amounts of equip. They are dropping the Links and Hives for their squad, and for all to use.
Of course, Having Hives for yourself is always smart, and having links is also a good idea. Tactical Flexibility. But ultimately, if your a solo logi (or trying to pretend to be one), You are going to do a **** job overall. The people you rep will love you, but the team overall gains nothing. If ground-deployed uplinks are left unattended, friendlies get camped and REd. Asking squadded logis to fly up and deploy links on high structures, separates them from their squad. Unless the squad sticks around and defends/guards the uplinks, they can be removed/camped/REd by hostiles. The job of deploying a single uplink to various strategic high structures, unreachable by enemy foot soldiers, is a job for a lonewolf. I don't know any lonewolves who will want to spend the entire remainder of the match in a logi outfit. So, for logis to do a good job, they had better deploy uplinks to secure, durable places. And the squad should stick around and protect uplinks that are in hazardous zones. Otherwise, the deployed uplinks are doing the team a disservice.
i rarely die to an uplink camp. sorry but your view that this is something that is widely happening in dust is either a misconception or just extreme bad luck on your behalf or extreme good luck on my behalf. yet i rarely hear of anyone in my corp or circles experiencing this to make me feel it is something that is common
do you sit on the building protecting your 5 uplinks scattered about the battlefield. the enemy can just as easily do what you did replacing yours with theirs or camping these uplinks which no one on your side can protect because they are unreachable and you were not there to protect them
All Hail Legion
|
Meeko Fent
Kirkinen Risk Control
Caldari State
2219
|
Posted - 2014.12.07 04:58:00 -
[20] - Quote
Clone D wrote:Meeko Fent wrote:If you are solo, why do you need to go and drop copious amounts of equip? There are already 2 folks on the team spending copious amounts of time dropping copious amounts of equip. They are dropping the Links and Hives for their squad, and for all to use.
Of course, Having Hives for yourself is always smart, and having links is also a good idea. Tactical Flexibility. But ultimately, if your a solo logi (or trying to pretend to be one), You are going to do a **** job overall. The people you rep will love you, but the team overall gains nothing. If ground-deployed uplinks are left unattended, friendlies get camped and REd. Asking squadded logis to fly up and deploy links on high structures, separates them from their squad. Unless the squad sticks around and defends/guards the uplinks, they can be removed/camped/REd by hostiles. The job of deploying a single uplink to various strategic high structures, unreachable by enemy foot soldiers, is a job for a lonewolf. I don't know any lonewolves who will want to spend the entire remainder of the match in a logi outfit. So, for logis to do a good job, they had better deploy uplinks to secure, durable places. And the squad should stick around and protect uplinks that are in hazardous zones. Otherwise, the deployed uplinks are doing the team a disservice.
...
So...
Your saying, that for in order for Uplinks to work, you need to fly up and drop them in sniper perches, and then continue assaulting.
And, so also apparently determined that a Scout, or a Assault, with their equipment, could NEVER be used to drop links where they are needed?
Quite literally, the assault can drop all the uplinks it can deploy, and then go about its slaying. No drawback other then having to fit the damn things.
I Live for Tears
|
|
|
Sgt Kirk
Fatal Absolution
8706
|
Posted - 2014.12.07 05:00:00 -
[21] - Quote
Spamming is sometimes the only thing people are good at.
CCP holds the Caldari's hand so this doesn't happen again.
|
ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game
RUST415
1667
|
Posted - 2014.12.07 05:02:00 -
[22] - Quote
Sgt Kirk wrote:Spamming is sometimes the only thing people are good at.
people can call it what they want or make it seem like bandwidth is killing something warm and fluffy dust cannot live without but it all comes down to this statement really
All Hail Legion
|
Clone D
Grundstein Automation
971
|
Posted - 2014.12.07 05:04:00 -
[23] - Quote
Meeko Fent wrote:Clone D wrote:Meeko Fent wrote:If you are solo, why do you need to go and drop copious amounts of equip? There are already 2 folks on the team spending copious amounts of time dropping copious amounts of equip. They are dropping the Links and Hives for their squad, and for all to use.
Of course, Having Hives for yourself is always smart, and having links is also a good idea. Tactical Flexibility. But ultimately, if your a solo logi (or trying to pretend to be one), You are going to do a **** job overall. The people you rep will love you, but the team overall gains nothing. If ground-deployed uplinks are left unattended, friendlies get camped and REd. Asking squadded logis to fly up and deploy links on high structures, separates them from their squad. Unless the squad sticks around and defends/guards the uplinks, they can be removed/camped/REd by hostiles. The job of deploying a single uplink to various strategic high structures, unreachable by enemy foot soldiers, is a job for a lonewolf. I don't know any lonewolves who will want to spend the entire remainder of the match in a logi outfit. So, for logis to do a good job, they had better deploy uplinks to secure, durable places. And the squad should stick around and protect uplinks that are in hazardous zones. Otherwise, the deployed uplinks are doing the team a disservice. ... So... Your saying, that for in order for Uplinks to work, you need to fly up and drop them in sniper perches, and then continue assaulting. And, so also apparently determined that a Scout, or a Assault, with their equipment, could NEVER be used to drop links where they are needed? Quite literally, the assault can drop all the uplinks it can deploy, and then go about its slaying. No drawback other then having to fit the damn things.
An assault who drops uplinks and then goes about his slaying is doing his team a disservice by leaving ground-deployed uplinks to be camped/REd or destroyed by hostiles. If you deploy uplinks in a hazardous zone, stick around and protect them and the friendlies who deploy there. Otherwise, you're just creating a deathtrap that will help your team get cloned.
ISK Trader
channel: blitz
|
ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game
RUST415
1667
|
Posted - 2014.12.07 05:06:00 -
[24] - Quote
Clone D wrote:Meeko Fent wrote:Clone D wrote:Meeko Fent wrote:If you are solo, why do you need to go and drop copious amounts of equip? There are already 2 folks on the team spending copious amounts of time dropping copious amounts of equip. They are dropping the Links and Hives for their squad, and for all to use.
Of course, Having Hives for yourself is always smart, and having links is also a good idea. Tactical Flexibility. But ultimately, if your a solo logi (or trying to pretend to be one), You are going to do a **** job overall. The people you rep will love you, but the team overall gains nothing. If ground-deployed uplinks are left unattended, friendlies get camped and REd. Asking squadded logis to fly up and deploy links on high structures, separates them from their squad. Unless the squad sticks around and defends/guards the uplinks, they can be removed/camped/REd by hostiles. The job of deploying a single uplink to various strategic high structures, unreachable by enemy foot soldiers, is a job for a lonewolf. I don't know any lonewolves who will want to spend the entire remainder of the match in a logi outfit. So, for logis to do a good job, they had better deploy uplinks to secure, durable places. And the squad should stick around and protect uplinks that are in hazardous zones. Otherwise, the deployed uplinks are doing the team a disservice. ... So... Your saying, that for in order for Uplinks to work, you need to fly up and drop them in sniper perches, and then continue assaulting. And, so also apparently determined that a Scout, or a Assault, with their equipment, could NEVER be used to drop links where they are needed? Quite literally, the assault can drop all the uplinks it can deploy, and then go about its slaying. No drawback other then having to fit the damn things. An assault who drops uplinks and then goes about his slaying is doing his team a disservice by leaving ground-deployed uplinks to be camped/REd or destroyed by hostiles. If you deploy uplinks in a hazardous zone, stick around and protect them and the friendlies who deploy there. Otherwise, you're just creating a deathtrap that will help your team get cloned.
what are you doing when you drop defenceless uplinks on a roof then leave to do your slaying
All Hail Legion
|
Clone D
Grundstein Automation
971
|
Posted - 2014.12.07 05:11:00 -
[25] - Quote
ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:Clone D wrote:Meeko Fent wrote:Clone D wrote:Meeko Fent wrote:If you are solo, why do you need to go and drop copious amounts of equip? There are already 2 folks on the team spending copious amounts of time dropping copious amounts of equip. They are dropping the Links and Hives for their squad, and for all to use.
Of course, Having Hives for yourself is always smart, and having links is also a good idea. Tactical Flexibility. But ultimately, if your a solo logi (or trying to pretend to be one), You are going to do a **** job overall. The people you rep will love you, but the team overall gains nothing. If ground-deployed uplinks are left unattended, friendlies get camped and REd. Asking squadded logis to fly up and deploy links on high structures, separates them from their squad. Unless the squad sticks around and defends/guards the uplinks, they can be removed/camped/REd by hostiles. The job of deploying a single uplink to various strategic high structures, unreachable by enemy foot soldiers, is a job for a lonewolf. I don't know any lonewolves who will want to spend the entire remainder of the match in a logi outfit. So, for logis to do a good job, they had better deploy uplinks to secure, durable places. And the squad should stick around and protect uplinks that are in hazardous zones. Otherwise, the deployed uplinks are doing the team a disservice. ... So... Your saying, that for in order for Uplinks to work, you need to fly up and drop them in sniper perches, and then continue assaulting. And, so also apparently determined that a Scout, or a Assault, with their equipment, could NEVER be used to drop links where they are needed? Quite literally, the assault can drop all the uplinks it can deploy, and then go about its slaying. No drawback other then having to fit the damn things. An assault who drops uplinks and then goes about his slaying is doing his team a disservice by leaving ground-deployed uplinks to be camped/REd or destroyed by hostiles. If you deploy uplinks in a hazardous zone, stick around and protect them and the friendlies who deploy there. Otherwise, you're just creating a deathtrap that will help your team get cloned. what are you doing when you drop defenceless uplinks on a roof then leave to do your slaying
Rooftops and high structures are a much less hazardous place to deploy uplinks because they are not accessible to most of the players on the opposing team. People don't usually get camped/REd on rooftops. It happens at a much lower frequency than ground-deployment and is therefore safer. Some rooftops are hazardous. The point I'm making is, deploy uplinks in a secure area if you're not planning on personally ensuring their protection. Don't create a death trap 
ISK Trader
channel: blitz
|
Meeko Fent
Kirkinen Risk Control
Caldari State
2221
|
Posted - 2014.12.07 05:13:00 -
[26] - Quote
Clone D wrote:Meeko Fent wrote:Clone D wrote:Meeko Fent wrote:If you are solo, why do you need to go and drop copious amounts of equip? There are already 2 folks on the team spending copious amounts of time dropping copious amounts of equip. They are dropping the Links and Hives for their squad, and for all to use.
Of course, Having Hives for yourself is always smart, and having links is also a good idea. Tactical Flexibility. But ultimately, if your a solo logi (or trying to pretend to be one), You are going to do a **** job overall. The people you rep will love you, but the team overall gains nothing. If ground-deployed uplinks are left unattended, friendlies get camped and REd. Asking squadded logis to fly up and deploy links on high structures, separates them from their squad. Unless the squad sticks around and defends/guards the uplinks, they can be removed/camped/REd by hostiles. The job of deploying a single uplink to various strategic high structures, unreachable by enemy foot soldiers, is a job for a lonewolf. I don't know any lonewolves who will want to spend the entire remainder of the match in a logi outfit. So, for logis to do a good job, they had better deploy uplinks to secure, durable places. And the squad should stick around and protect uplinks that are in hazardous zones. Otherwise, the deployed uplinks are doing the team a disservice. ... So... Your saying, that for in order for Uplinks to work, you need to fly up and drop them in sniper perches, and then continue assaulting. And, so also apparently determined that a Scout, or a Assault, with their equipment, could NEVER be used to drop links where they are needed? Quite literally, the assault can drop all the uplinks it can deploy, and then go about its slaying. No drawback other then having to fit the damn things. An assault who drops uplinks and then goes about his slaying is doing his team a disservice by leaving ground-deployed uplinks to be camped/REd or destroyed by hostiles. If you deploy uplinks in a hazardous zone, stick around and protect them and the friendlies who deploy there. Otherwise, you're just creating a deathtrap that will help your team get cloned.
*facepalm*
So, what your saying, is that, when you drop your links on the roof of the spires on Line Harvest, you need to defend them.
Because you just said "job of deploying a single uplink to various strategic high structures, unreachable by enemy foot soldiers, is a job for a lonewolf".
And I just said how they are currently being done as such, and you said that that is irrelevent because you still have to defend to points. Even if they are in "high, unreachable structures". Which you just said they need to be placed in.
Your post is a walking oxymoron, and your just posting for the sake of trying to defend your broken position.
I Live for Tears
|
Clone D
Grundstein Automation
971
|
Posted - 2014.12.07 05:18:00 -
[27] - Quote
Meeko Fent wrote:Clone D wrote:Meeko Fent wrote:Clone D wrote:Meeko Fent wrote:If you are solo, why do you need to go and drop copious amounts of equip? There are already 2 folks on the team spending copious amounts of time dropping copious amounts of equip. They are dropping the Links and Hives for their squad, and for all to use.
Of course, Having Hives for yourself is always smart, and having links is also a good idea. Tactical Flexibility. But ultimately, if your a solo logi (or trying to pretend to be one), You are going to do a **** job overall. The people you rep will love you, but the team overall gains nothing. If ground-deployed uplinks are left unattended, friendlies get camped and REd. Asking squadded logis to fly up and deploy links on high structures, separates them from their squad. Unless the squad sticks around and defends/guards the uplinks, they can be removed/camped/REd by hostiles. The job of deploying a single uplink to various strategic high structures, unreachable by enemy foot soldiers, is a job for a lonewolf. I don't know any lonewolves who will want to spend the entire remainder of the match in a logi outfit. So, for logis to do a good job, they had better deploy uplinks to secure, durable places. And the squad should stick around and protect uplinks that are in hazardous zones. Otherwise, the deployed uplinks are doing the team a disservice. ... So... Your saying, that for in order for Uplinks to work, you need to fly up and drop them in sniper perches, and then continue assaulting. And, so also apparently determined that a Scout, or a Assault, with their equipment, could NEVER be used to drop links where they are needed? Quite literally, the assault can drop all the uplinks it can deploy, and then go about its slaying. No drawback other then having to fit the damn things. An assault who drops uplinks and then goes about his slaying is doing his team a disservice by leaving ground-deployed uplinks to be camped/REd or destroyed by hostiles. If you deploy uplinks in a hazardous zone, stick around and protect them and the friendlies who deploy there. Otherwise, you're just creating a deathtrap that will help your team get cloned. *facepalm* So, what your saying, is that, when you drop your links on the roof of the spires on Line Harvest, you need to defend them. Because you just said "job of deploying a single uplink to various strategic high structures, unreachable by enemy foot soldiers, is a job for a lonewolf". And I just said how they are currently being done as such, and you said that that is irrelevent because you still have to defend to points. Even if they are in "high, unreachable structures". Which you just said they need to be placed in. Your post is a walking oxymoron, and your just posting for the sake of trying to defend your broken position.
Do you understand the idea of risk? Uplinks deployed on high structures, inaccessible to foot soldiers are at a low risk. Uplinks deployed on the ground are at a high risk. Personally protect high-risk uplinks that you deploy. No need to personally protect low-risk uplinks that you deploy.
ISK Trader
channel: blitz
|
ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game
RUST415
1668
|
Posted - 2014.12.07 05:21:00 -
[28] - Quote
Clone D wrote:
Do you understand the idea of risk? Uplinks deployed on high structures, inaccessible to foot soldiers are at a low risk. Uplinks deployed on the ground are at a high risk. Personally protect high-risk uplinks that you deploy. No need to personally protect low-risk uplinks that you deploy.
with the new features i will be essentially taking my uplinks with me... is that safe enough for you
All Hail Legion
|
Meeko Fent
Kirkinen Risk Control
Caldari State
2222
|
Posted - 2014.12.07 05:25:00 -
[29] - Quote
Clone D wrote:Do you understand the idea of risk? Uplinks deployed on high structures, inaccessible to foot soldiers are at a low risk. Uplinks deployed on the ground are at a high risk. Personally protect high-risk uplinks that you deploy. No need to personally protect low-risk uplinks that you deploy.
Yes, and as I said, you DON'T need a logi suit to place uplinks in low risk spots. A Assault does just fine. It has equip.
If you're arguing against bandwidth with that point, you're missing the point of other suits having equip as well.
Solo Players running assaults or scouts can effectively drop links in safe places. That is true. Bandwidth will not change that. You have no real point in bringing this up, considering the other options available for link dropping while retaining slaying efficiency.
I Live for Tears
|
Clone D
Grundstein Automation
971
|
Posted - 2014.12.07 05:25:00 -
[30] - Quote
ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:Clone D wrote:
Do you understand the idea of risk? Uplinks deployed on high structures, inaccessible to foot soldiers are at a low risk. Uplinks deployed on the ground are at a high risk. Personally protect high-risk uplinks that you deploy. No need to personally protect low-risk uplinks that you deploy.
with the new features i will be essentially taking my uplinks with me... is that safe enough for you
What I am trying to promote is responsible uplink deployment practices. As long as friendlies don't get killed because of my uplinks, I'm satisfied that I helped the team. It's Dust, so you may do whatever you want to. I am not here to approve of anyone's behavoir; only to spread my ideas.
ISK Trader
channel: blitz
|
|
|
Joel II X
Bacon with a bottle of Quafe
4927
|
Posted - 2014.12.07 05:30:00 -
[31] - Quote
I, for one, welcome these changes as it doesn't affect me in any negative way.
In fact, I think it was a long-awaited change. |
Clone D
Grundstein Automation
971
|
Posted - 2014.12.07 05:34:00 -
[32] - Quote
Meeko Fent wrote:Clone D wrote:Do you understand the idea of risk? Uplinks deployed on high structures, inaccessible to foot soldiers are at a low risk. Uplinks deployed on the ground are at a high risk. Personally protect high-risk uplinks that you deploy. No need to personally protect low-risk uplinks that you deploy.
Yes, and as I said, you DON'T need a logi suit to place uplinks in low risk spots. A Assault does just fine. It has equip. If you're arguing against bandwidth with that point, you're missing the point of other suits having equip as well. Solo Players running assaults or scouts can effectively drop links in safe places. That is true. Bandwidth will not change that. You have no real point in bringing this up, considering the other options available for link dropping while retaining slaying efficiency.
Now that we have established this idea, let's append the fact that teams often need more than 1 or 2 uplinks at a time. Often there are between 5 to 7 essential strategic locations on a map that will really give the team a doorway into the most tactical positions, allowing them to easily forge their way to victory.
From a standpoint of efficiency, it is best if one person can call a dropship and supply the team with those 5 - 7 uplinks in low-risk, highly-effective locations, as opposed to 3 or 4 people calling in dropships and trying to coordinate uplink deployment so that the map is covered evenly.
Post BW, if a single merc deploys 5-7 uplinks, then in order for the uplinks to remain active, the bandwidth of his/her dropsuit must support the amount of deployed equipment, forcing the merc to remain in a logi suit for as long as he/she deems it necessary to provide team support in the form of uplinks. This renders the merc relatively ineffective for that period, now unable to deploy new equipment at the cost of losing uplinks and now forced to fit logi dropsuits for other purposes to prevent losing uplinks when changing battlefield functions. Whereas pre bandwidth, he/she could have continued contributing to the team more effectively in various classes of dropsuits.
ISK Trader
channel: blitz
|
Sgt Kirk
Fatal Absolution
8706
|
Posted - 2014.12.07 05:35:00 -
[33] - Quote
Joel II X wrote:I, for one, welcome these changes as it doesn't affect me in any negative way.
In fact, I think it was a long-awaited change.
Very much agreed.
CCP holds the Caldari's hand so this doesn't happen again.
|
Meeko Fent
Kirkinen Risk Control
Caldari State
2223
|
Posted - 2014.12.07 05:40:00 -
[34] - Quote
Clone D wrote:Meeko Fent wrote:Clone D wrote:Do you understand the idea of risk? Uplinks deployed on high structures, inaccessible to foot soldiers are at a low risk. Uplinks deployed on the ground are at a high risk. Personally protect high-risk uplinks that you deploy. No need to personally protect low-risk uplinks that you deploy.
Yes, and as I said, you DON'T need a logi suit to place uplinks in low risk spots. A Assault does just fine. It has equip. If you're arguing against bandwidth with that point, you're missing the point of other suits having equip as well. Solo Players running assaults or scouts can effectively drop links in safe places. That is true. Bandwidth will not change that. You have no real point in bringing this up, considering the other options available for link dropping while retaining slaying efficiency. Now that we have established this idea, let's append the fact that teams often need more than 1 or 2 uplinks at a time. Often there are between 5 to 7 essential strategic locations on a map that will really give the team a doorway into the most tactical positions, allowing them to easily forge their way to victory. From a standpoint of efficiency, it is best if one person can call a dropship and supply the team with those 5 - 7 uplinks in low-risk, highly-effective locations, as opposed to 3 or 4 people calling in dropships and trying to coordinate uplink deployment so that the map is covered evenly. Post BW, if a single merc deploys 5-7 uplinks, then in order for the uplinks to remain active, the bandwidth of his/her dropsuit must support the amount of deployed equipment, forcing the merc to remain in a logi suit for as long as he/she deems it necessary to provide team support in the form of uplinks. This renders the merc relatively ineffective for that period, now unable to deploy new equipment at the cost of losing uplinks and now forced to fit logi dropsuits for other purposes to prevent losing uplinks when changing battlefield functions. Whereas pre bandwidth, he/she could have continued contributing to the team more effectively in various classes of dropsuits.
And that will hopefully encourage people to go around, drop the links where they need to, and contribute to the team as a whole.
If The Pitcher could cover all the bases, then why do we need the team?
I Live for Tears
|
CELESTA AUNGM
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
355
|
Posted - 2014.12.07 05:45:00 -
[35] - Quote
Clone D wrote:We're going to have less uplink deployment in safe, durable areas due to disappearing uplinks when logis swap out to perform other functions, or due to demoralization and people giving up on deploying uplinks, or due to more foot soldiers carrying 1 uplink and deploying it in a hazardous zone where it could easily be camped or REd.
We're going to have more uplink destruction due to new OBs.
It's going to become REDLINE MADNESS. Less uplinks + more uplink destruction.
I predict that any slightly asymetrically matched games will end in redlining the losing team, resulting in even more redlining than we already experience today.
 True, Clone D. Very true. For the immediate future, the "farmers" who never really learned even the first useful thing about deploying an uplink tactically well, will be frisbee-ing their 2 uplinks in goofy places that will help the enemy more than us...
But like "Freindly-fire ON" in FW, a good game ought to have "filter-doors" that allow the playstyle-trained players to enter into the next room, but stop and throw back the players who refuse to follow the required playstyle (they can stay in the yard and do their farming), or at least penalizes them while they try to play with us in the advanced-room until they've better-developed their playstyle.
I'm hoping the "bandwith" mechanic will permanently turn away farmers, and after 'X' number of months of adjustment-pain, will train a whole fresh and smarter batch of uplink-specialist players.
Heaven knows we NEED "specialists" in uplinks----tons of players still don't realize yet that match types like Ambush are dictated and won by which team has the competent uplink carrier with them.
Universe of good wishes for the 49, especially CCP Eterne...
No story can have life without writers and publishers.
|
Clone D
Grundstein Automation
971
|
Posted - 2014.12.07 05:50:00 -
[36] - Quote
Meeko Fent wrote:Clone D wrote:Meeko Fent wrote:Clone D wrote:Do you understand the idea of risk? Uplinks deployed on high structures, inaccessible to foot soldiers are at a low risk. Uplinks deployed on the ground are at a high risk. Personally protect high-risk uplinks that you deploy. No need to personally protect low-risk uplinks that you deploy.
Yes, and as I said, you DON'T need a logi suit to place uplinks in low risk spots. A Assault does just fine. It has equip. If you're arguing against bandwidth with that point, you're missing the point of other suits having equip as well. Solo Players running assaults or scouts can effectively drop links in safe places. That is true. Bandwidth will not change that. You have no real point in bringing this up, considering the other options available for link dropping while retaining slaying efficiency. Now that we have established this idea, let's append the fact that teams often need more than 1 or 2 uplinks at a time. Often there are between 5 to 7 essential strategic locations on a map that will really give the team a doorway into the most tactical positions, allowing them to easily forge their way to victory. From a standpoint of efficiency, it is best if one person can call a dropship and supply the team with those 5 - 7 uplinks in low-risk, highly-effective locations, as opposed to 3 or 4 people calling in dropships and trying to coordinate uplink deployment so that the map is covered evenly. Post BW, if a single merc deploys 5-7 uplinks, then in order for the uplinks to remain active, the bandwidth of his/her dropsuit must support the amount of deployed equipment, forcing the merc to remain in a logi suit for as long as he/she deems it necessary to provide team support in the form of uplinks. This renders the merc relatively ineffective for that period, now unable to deploy new equipment at the cost of losing uplinks and now forced to fit logi dropsuits for other purposes to prevent losing uplinks when changing battlefield functions. Whereas pre bandwidth, he/she could have continued contributing to the team more effectively in various classes of dropsuits. And that will hopefully encourage people to go around, drop the links where they need to, and contribute to the team as a whole. If The Pitcher could cover all the bases, then why do we need the team?
So my post BW options after I deploy uplinks become:
1. Build a slayer logi without deployable equipment.
2. Build a repper logi without deployable equipment.
3. Build a point defense logi without deployable equipment.
4. Build a suppression logi without deployable equipment.
5. Build a hacker logi without deployable equipment.
6. Build a close range assault logi without deployable equipment.
7. Build a mid range assault logi without deployable equipment.
8. Build a long range assault logi without deployable equipment.
9. Build an AV logi without deployable equipment.
10. etc. logi without deployable equipment.
This could be the same solution for deploying a proxy minefield as well.
What BW just did was limit which dropsuit I have to wear in order to play the game.
What BW just did was stop me from both effectively deploying a proxy minefield and effectively deploying uplinks and effectively deploying REs and effectively deploying hives simultaneously. I know how to do those things to effectively support the team and not spam. Why shouldn't I be able to drop multiple pieces of responsibly-placed equipment and then carry on in other roles and other dropsuits?
ISK Trader
channel: blitz
|
CELESTA AUNGM
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
356
|
Posted - 2014.12.07 06:21:00 -
[37] - Quote
Well,... not exactly.
What I think is that the word "EFFECTIVELY" when it comes to deploying equipment, is tiffany-twisted difference in each player's overconfident mind.
MANY of us think we have been "effectively" deploying and "effectively" helping players... I'm expecting that the Bandwith constraint will force all equipment carriers to either improve and sharpen their idea of effective deployment was, OR retire from equipment deployment and let some better carriers handle that job.
...Yep, sounds like an insult... but it's just logic that is cold sometimes.
Universe of good wishes for the 49, especially CCP Eterne...
No story can have life without writers and publishers.
|
Meeko Fent
Kirkinen Risk Control
Caldari State
2224
|
Posted - 2014.12.07 06:29:00 -
[38] - Quote
Clone D wrote:Meeko Fent wrote:Clone D wrote:Meeko Fent wrote:Clone D wrote:Do you understand the idea of risk? Uplinks deployed on high structures, inaccessible to foot soldiers are at a low risk. Uplinks deployed on the ground are at a high risk. Personally protect high-risk uplinks that you deploy. No need to personally protect low-risk uplinks that you deploy.
Yes, and as I said, you DON'T need a logi suit to place uplinks in low risk spots. A Assault does just fine. It has equip. If you're arguing against bandwidth with that point, you're missing the point of other suits having equip as well. Solo Players running assaults or scouts can effectively drop links in safe places. That is true. Bandwidth will not change that. You have no real point in bringing this up, considering the other options available for link dropping while retaining slaying efficiency. Now that we have established this idea, let's append the fact that teams often need more than 1 or 2 uplinks at a time. Often there are between 5 to 7 essential strategic locations on a map that will really give the team a doorway into the most tactical positions, allowing them to easily forge their way to victory. From a standpoint of efficiency, it is best if one person can call a dropship and supply the team with those 5 - 7 uplinks in low-risk, highly-effective locations, as opposed to 3 or 4 people calling in dropships and trying to coordinate uplink deployment so that the map is covered evenly. Post BW, if a single merc deploys 5-7 uplinks, then in order for the uplinks to remain active, the bandwidth of his/her dropsuit must support the amount of deployed equipment, forcing the merc to remain in a logi suit for as long as he/she deems it necessary to provide team support in the form of uplinks. This renders the merc relatively ineffective for that period, now unable to deploy new equipment at the cost of losing uplinks and now forced to fit logi dropsuits for other purposes to prevent losing uplinks when changing battlefield functions. Whereas pre bandwidth, he/she could have continued contributing to the team more effectively in various classes of dropsuits. And that will hopefully encourage people to go around, drop the links where they need to, and contribute to the team as a whole. If The Pitcher could cover all the bases, then why do we need the team? So my post BW options after I deploy uplinks become: 1. Build a slayer logi without deployable equipment. 2. Build a repper logi without deployable equipment. 3. Build a point defense logi without deployable equipment. 4. Build a suppression logi without deployable equipment. 5. Build a hacker logi without deployable equipment. 6. Build a close range assault logi without deployable equipment. 7. Build a mid range assault logi without deployable equipment. 8. Build a long range assault logi without deployable equipment. 9. Build an AV logi without deployable equipment. 10. etc. logi without deployable equipment. This could be the same solution for deploying a proxy minefield as well. What BW just did was limit which dropsuit I have to wear in order to play the game. What BW just did was stop me from both effectively deploying a proxy minefield and effectively deploying uplinks and effectively deploying REs and effectively deploying hives simultaneously. I know how to do those things to effectively support the team and not spam. Why shouldn't I be able to drop multiple pieces of responsibly-placed equipment and then carry on in other roles and other dropsuits?
For LOGIS, no.
Logis have double the Assault Bandwidth.
If you played logi, then you drop Links, and you still have at least 8 left to work with. So I think that's 2 Hives, or 2 RE's.
It is a bit hard on minefields, perhaps, but then, that BW on RE's and PE's can change. A BW of 1 Seems much more appropriate then 4 on RE's. But the implementation of the system itself does not bar changes. Hotfixes man...
I Live for Tears
|
Clone D
Grundstein Automation
972
|
Posted - 2014.12.07 06:30:00 -
[39] - Quote
CELESTA AUNGM wrote:Well,... not exactly. What I think is that the word "EFFECTIVELY" when it comes to deploying equipment, is tiffany-twisted difference in each player's overconfident mind. MANY of us think we have been "effectively" deploying and "effectively" helping players... I'm expecting that the Bandwith constraint will force all equipment carriers to either improve and sharpen their idea of effective deployment was, OR retire from equipment deployment and let some better carriers handle that job. ...Yep, sounds like an insult... but it's just logic that is cold sometimes.
I could point out specific locations on maps where uplinks have a high frequency of enduring the match.
I could point out specific locations on maps where proxies have a high frequency of destroying ground vehicles.
I could point out specific locations on maps where REs have a high frequency of getting kills during detonation.
I could point out specific locations on maps where hives are frequently needed by assorted classes, whether AV or reliable outposts for holding ground.
Does that sound like I don't know what I'm doing? I'm sure if you gathered statistical evidence, it would reflect that I know what I'm doing. Experienced players would probably agree that these are strategic locations that are refined empirically by playing many battles.
ISK Trader
channel: blitz
|
ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game
RUST415
1670
|
Posted - 2014.12.07 12:12:00 -
[40] - Quote
Clone D. you do not have to place 5 uplinks and be locked into a logistics suit. you can quite easily place 1 or 2 strategic uplinks and still be able to change to most suits and your links will remain for most of the fight.
also why do you feel that it should be 1 persons responsibility to place all the strategic uplinks on the map. look at the old domi map with the central tower. before ladders people would fill dropships with multiple uplink users and drop them off on the pipes and buildings. that was a team effort is supplying those strategic items. . all of which would survive until the enemy would counter them.
i have been killed far more times jumping off buildings with zero situation awareness of what's waiting below than i ever have spawning in on a ground uplink.
there is a huge difference between safe/secure uplinks and efficient uplinks. some of your uplinks might get the odd players safely into the game but its my uplinks that get them into the fight. my uplinks are constantly burning out. to me thats efficiency not placing them somewhere they are not needed much at all
All Hail Legion
|
|
|
Clone D
Grundstein Automation
984
|
Posted - 2014.12.07 13:24:00 -
[41] - Quote
ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:i have been killed far more times jumping off buildings with zero situation awareness of what's waiting below than i ever have spawning in on a ground uplink.
If you want to prevent zero situational awareneess, look around and down before you jump, my fellow merc. Intentionally face in the direction that makes the most sense when you land. This is far better than ground-spawn on top of a hostile RE.
ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:there is a huge difference between safe/secure uplinks and efficient uplinks. some of your uplinks might get the odd players safely into the game but its my uplinks that get them into the fight. my uplinks are constantly burning out. to me thats efficiency not placing them somewhere they are not needed much at all
I don't want to place uplinks where they are not needed. What would be the point of that?
I'm glad that your ground-deployed uplinks help soldiers get into the fight, bro. That's important. But I also hope that somebody is protecting them, so they don't get camped/REd and destroyed by hostiles.
ISK Trader
channel: blitz
|
ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game
RUST415
1671
|
Posted - 2014.12.07 14:37:00 -
[42] - Quote
Clone D wrote:ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:i have been killed far more times jumping off buildings with zero situation awareness of what's waiting below than i ever have spawning in on a ground uplink. If you want to prevent zero situational awareneess, look around and down before you jump, my fellow merc. Intentionally face in the direction that makes the most sense when you land. This is far better than ground-spawn on top of a hostile RE. ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:there is a huge difference between safe/secure uplinks and efficient uplinks. some of your uplinks might get the odd players safely into the game but its my uplinks that get them into the fight. my uplinks are constantly burning out. to me thats efficiency not placing them somewhere they are not needed much at all I don't want to place uplinks where they are not needed. What would be the point of that? I'm glad that your ground-deployed uplinks help soldiers get into the fight, bro. That's important. But I also hope that somebody is protecting them, so they don't get camped/REd and destroyed by hostiles.
please stop repeating this nonsense about how uplinks are always camped, its a rare occasion if that. it is of minor consequence. every one of your arguments is a repeat of this argument which rarely affects anyone. besides even if it where true the new uplinks after the patch will scan out enemy campers so this whole argument is BS. it is going to be even less likely for players to camp equipment.
you are fixated on one aspect of the changes crying foul and ignoring all the other features which combat your issues
All Hail Legion
|
Clone D
Grundstein Automation
984
|
Posted - 2014.12.07 17:22:00 -
[43] - Quote
ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:please stop repeating this nonsense about how uplinks are always camped, its a rare occasion if that. it is of minor consequence. every one of your arguments is a repeat of this argument which rarely affects anyone. besides even if it where true the new uplinks after the patch will scan out enemy campers so this whole argument is BS. it is going to be even less likely for players to camp equipment.
While I always check the overhead map thoroughly before spawning in, my experience with using ground spawns (both uplinks and CRUs) has shown me a high frequency of campers. Why do people camp/RE? Because they are easy kills. Some matches, I have been camped as much as 75% of spawn ins due to people having placed unsecured uplinks. I have frequenly observed my team spawn camping, and when I play with advanced squads, nobody destroys a link without first asking, "Are we camping this?"
Uplinks and CRUs will reveal limited TACNET data post 1.10, with limited range and limited precision. Don't think that camping is about to come to a halt. People will simply build fittings that allow them to camp without being picked up by CRU/uplink passive scans. Besides, how hard is it to camp by standing further than 5 - 15 m away? That is basic camping distance anyway.
We will see how likely it is for players to camp uplinks post 1.10. I am guessing that nothing will change in regard to spawn campers.
ISK Trader
channel: blitz
|
NextDark Knight
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
682
|
Posted - 2014.12.07 17:34:00 -
[44] - Quote
Response are :
Response 1 : I HATE EQUIPMENT SPAMMERS SO THIS IS A GOOD NERF. (People that don't want to see past the pain of seeing one or two equipment spammers a week)
Response 2 : I HATE UPLINKS BEING CAMPS SO THIS IS A GOOD NERF (People that are just idoits)
Response 3 : I PLAY WITH A DEDICATED LOGI SO SHOULD YOU (People that really arn't effected by the NERF)
Response 4 : THIS WILL IMPROVE THE GAME ( Well, only if you like being in the redline if you don't have dedicated logis)
Honestly.. this is a stupid update for pub matches.. Gold update for PC matches..
Over 60+ Million SP and full proto in all Caldari Suits. Dust just won't die on PS3/Xbox. Dustin since 6/29/2012
|
DDx77
The Exemplars
RISE of LEGION
48
|
Posted - 2014.12.07 18:06:00 -
[45] - Quote
I think Clone D brings up some very valid points.
BW does seemingly limit roles
If the main problem is uplink and nanohive spam, why not have BW for just those two types of equipment?
I don't see the point in limiting proxies and RE's and also tying that limitation in with scanners, rep tools and even cloaks( well maybe I do with cloaks)
I also don't see the point in wiping all deployed equipment when you switch suit classes.
I can still deploy uplinks in my scout but only keep them on the field as long as I stay in a scout suit? Why?
Doesn't bother me, I'll just stay in a scout for the whole match then even though it would be fun to switch to assault or heavy.
This idea limits fun and versatility
Imo it would be better when switching suits to have only the equipment that doesn't fall in with that suits BW be destroyed, not a complete wipe of equipment
(Unless I'm not understanding BW correctly)
|
Clone D
Grundstein Automation
984
|
Posted - 2014.12.07 18:29:00 -
[46] - Quote
DDx77 wrote:Imo it would be better when switching suits to have only the equipment that doesn't fall in with that suits BW be destroyed, not a complete wipe of equipment
(Unless I'm not understanding BW correctly)
Equipment will only disappear, in the order that it was dropped, if the deployed equipment exceeds the new dropsuit's BW. This aligns with your preference, so no worries there. It will not disappear completely unless you pull a non-commando heavy frame per http://dust514.com/news/blog/2014/12/uprising-1.10-overview-patch-notes/.
ISK Trader
channel: blitz
|
Leadfoot10
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
2476
|
Posted - 2014.12.07 18:30:00 -
[47] - Quote
"why all the upset about bandwidth"
Because, generally speaking, people don't like change.
It is really just that simple, IMO. |
TEBOW BAGGINS
GREATNESS ACHIEVED THRU TROLLING
1398
|
Posted - 2014.12.07 23:26:00 -
[48] - Quote
butthurt because they can't go 3500 on the scoreboard as easy.. now normal players who don't spam equipment have a better chance to make isk.
AKA Zirzo Valcyn
AFKing since 2012
|
Michael Arck
6078
|
Posted - 2014.12.08 01:10:00 -
[49] - Quote
Damn man, its disheartening to read how short sighted this community still is when it comes to many issues that are not really complex, but takes more than a simple "oh you just mad because you want to spam and be dedicated to a role" reply.
I keep checking back on these forums hoping to see a turn around. I'm afraid to step my foot into the **** pool. Is Dust even Dust anymore?
Archistrategos / The 7th Prime / Selah
*Where the fear has gone there will be nothing....only I will remain
|
Z3dog
BIG BAD W0LVES
45
|
Posted - 2014.12.08 03:00:00 -
[50] - Quote
Meeko Fent wrote:
If The Pitcher could cover all the bases, then why do we need the team?
Frequently in this game people don't have a team.
Dust 5/14
|
|
|
CELESTA AUNGM
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
362
|
Posted - 2014.12.08 04:55:00 -
[51] - Quote
Michael Arck wrote:Damn man, its disheartening to read how short sighted this community still is when it comes to many issues that are not really complex, but takes more than a simple "oh you just mad because you want to spam and be dedicated to a role" reply.
I keep checking back on these forums hoping to see a turn around. I'm afraid to step my foot into the **** pool. Is Dust even Dust anymore?
 Don't worry, Michael Arck! Dust is still Dust, and being more innovative and elaborate every new month. The "BW" as it is now famously called as we log it into gaming history(  ) will NOT destroy uplink use for logis or anyone else----it will simply challenge us to define what we each thought was "experienced know-how at planting uplinks".
NOT meant to hurt the feelings of any poster (or author) in this thread, but if an uplink could talk back to the girl who deployed it, she might hear:
 If you're busy planting 8 of me active around the map at the same time, just "for the team's convenience"---how will you ever be available to notice when your team needs ONE of me planted on the flank of the current firefight they are in?
 If you planted me 4 times, and I got camped by reds 3 times---is it just possible that for 3 times out of 4, you're planting me in spots that are so predictable/noticeable, and so securable by the enemy, that the reds feel perfectly safe camping with lawn chairs and a boombox?
 When you deployed 2 of me on opposite sides of Red Null-C, specifically so our team could strike from both sides at once, and won both C and the match----don't you think the team appreciated you more than when you deployed 6 of me on random "long walk to get off" rooftops and "20 seconds to get down" skyscrapers in those other matches that day?
BW may prove to be VERY helpful to us. Maybe by making us aware that, if you're planting equipment every WHERE that you think is safest, instead of waiting and planting equipment WHEN your blues need it, and AS each firefight unfolds,... some of us logi players may not be as skillfully HELPFUL to team as we've been thinking we are.
Universe of good wishes for the 49, especially CCP Eterne...
No story can have life without writers and publishers.
|
Bethhy
Ancient Exiles.
2566
|
Posted - 2014.12.08 05:13:00 -
[52] - Quote
Leadfoot10 wrote:"why all the upset about bandwidth"
Because, generally speaking, people don't like change.
It is really just that simple, IMO.
Changing things for the worse in guise of a "Fix" is the problem.
Same as vehicle locking.
Same as matchmaking.
Same as needles just last patch. and many other examples.
This is a change that will impact daily DUST negatively. In Order to get CCP off easily from fixing a broken game mechanic that has been in practice since Closed Beta.
This is not a fix... It's a giant nerf band aid, With it applied the big problem of CCP having a game in which it's core game mechanics run like sh!t, WILL NOT BE FIXED. Entire contributing gameplay styles will be eliminated and made null in void And The actual problem (Game performance) Will not.
The Game will still run like Sh!t.
And Everyday DUST gameplay will suffer.
for the sake of an easy fix for CCP and their own game play performance issues they created themselves.. |
Z3dog
BIG BAD W0LVES
46
|
Posted - 2014.12.08 22:52:00 -
[53] - Quote
Bethhy wrote:Leadfoot10 wrote:"why all the upset about bandwidth"
Because, generally speaking, people don't like change.
It is really just that simple, IMO. Changing things for the worse in guise of a "Fix" is the problem. Same as vehicle locking. Same as matchmaking. Same as needles just last patch. and many other examples. This is a change that will impact daily DUST negatively. In Order to get CCP off easily from fixing a broken game mechanic that has been in practice since Closed Beta. This is not a fix... It's a giant nerf band aid, With it applied the big problem of CCP having a game in which it's core game mechanics run like sh!t, WILL NOT BE FIXED. Entire contributing gameplay styles will be eliminated and made null in void And The actual problem (Game performance) Will not. The Game will still run like Sh!t. And Everyday DUST gameplay will suffer. for the sake of an easy fix for CCP and their own game play performance issues they created themselves..
I'm really not surprised devs in the "people's republic" are calling nerfs buffs. It's actually kinda funny.
Dust 5/14
|
ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game
RUST415
1686
|
Posted - 2014.12.09 03:42:00 -
[54] - Quote
anyone not in a logi suit doing logi tasks is not a logi. dumping copious amounts of gear and then changing suits is not being a logi. if you are a single equipment user then BW does not affect you. if you are a logibro BW does not affect you. if you spam gear and change suits then yes BW will affect you. this is not a nerf disguised as a buff. this has never been a buff, this has always been a fix to something that has been broken for a long time and that is spam
you can call it strategic placing of multiple uplinks etc all you want but to any serious logibro its just spam for 1 purpose and that is to get the dropper WPs without any of the cost or risk real logis carry by not changing suits. not to mention it can prevent better use of permanent logistics own gear.
i am a full time logi. i have 1 suit in my fittings list and its a mini logi. i never spam. i hit top 3 often because i use my equipment when it is needed generating me WP because of the quality of my placement and timing and not because of spamming a large quantity.
its time for others to adapt and overcome as logis have had to do time and time again
All Hail Legion
|
|
|
| |
|
| Pages: 1 2 :: [one page] |