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Clone D
Grundstein Automation
970
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Posted - 2014.12.07 03:53:00 -
[1] - Quote
We're going to have less uplink deployment in safe, durable areas due to disappearing uplinks when logis swap out to perform other functions, or due to demoralization and people giving up on deploying uplinks, or due to more foot soldiers carrying 1 uplink and deploying it in a hazardous zone where it could easily be camped or REd.
We're going to have more uplink destruction due to new OBs.
It's going to become REDLINE MADNESS. Less uplinks + more uplink destruction.
I predict that any slightly asymetrically matched games will end in redlining the losing team, resulting in even more redlining than we already experience today.
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Clone D
Grundstein Automation
970
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Posted - 2014.12.07 04:19:00 -
[2] - Quote
ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:Clone D wrote:We're going to have less uplink deployment in safe, durable areas due to disappearing uplinks when logis swap out to perform other functions, or due to demoralization and people giving up on deploying uplinks, or due to more foot soldiers carrying 1 uplink and deploying it in a hazardous zone where it could easily be camped or REd.
We're going to have more uplink destruction due to new OBs.
It's going to become REDLINE MADNESS. Less uplinks + more uplink destruction.
I predict that any slightly asymetrically matched games will end in redlining the losing team, resulting in even more redlining than we already experience today. my suit has a basic uplink currently as i'm training out my bad habits by using basic gear and my uplinks have no end to players using them. this says to me 90% of the other uplinks on the field are completely useless anyway. i am doing my job getting players into battle at the right location. to say spam is the only way to get players into a fight is just absolute nonsense. there is a lot of panic about this and it only revolves around a single person dropping all his equipment and most of it in useless locations on the field and then changing suit straight away. as for redline madness it cannot happen anymore due to the new spawn locations both in and out of the redline and with cloaks there will always be an uplink somewhere to use. its a little nieve to assume every player will instantly give up and remain in the redline because they can't get an uplink. players will adapt as they always have. as for the new orbitals. you forgot to consider the new stats to equipment making them harder to detect. there will be less equipment and in most cases will be needing strategic placement but it will be harder to see
Do you personally stay near your ground-deployed uplinks, watch over them, protect them, ensure they aren't getting camped, or REd? If so, then you are doing a good job providing a safe place to spawn in. If not, then it is a hazard to spawn from those uplinks that can easily be exploited by hostiles.
Uplinks that are deployed in spaces that are unreachable by foot soldiers are much more secure and durable. I don't hear soldiers that spawn on top of a building or high structure complaining that they got camped. I do hear complaints of camping around CRUs and ground-deployed uplinks all of the time.
If my team gets redlined, then I will fly out and drop 1 uplink at about 5 separate (100+ meters apart) strategic locations. Why? Because nobody else had the sense to maintain battlefield mobility in the form of secure, durable uplinks.
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Clone D
Grundstein Automation
970
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Posted - 2014.12.07 04:41:00 -
[3] - Quote
Meeko Fent wrote:If you are solo, why do you need to go and drop copious amounts of equip? There are already 2 folks on the team spending copious amounts of time dropping copious amounts of equip. They are dropping the Links and Hives for their squad, and for all to use.
Of course, Having Hives for yourself is always smart, and having links is also a good idea. Tactical Flexibility. But ultimately, if your a solo logi (or trying to pretend to be one), You are going to do a **** job overall. The people you rep will love you, but the team overall gains nothing.
If ground-deployed uplinks are left unattended, friendlies get camped and REd. Asking squadded logis to fly up and deploy links on high structures, separates them from their squad.
Unless the squad sticks around and defends/guards the uplinks, they can be removed/camped/REd by hostiles.
The job of deploying a single uplink to various strategic high structures, unreachable by enemy foot soldiers, is a job for a lonewolf. I don't know any lonewolves who will want to spend the entire remainder of the match in a logi outfit.
So, for logis to do a good job, they had better deploy uplinks to secure, durable places. And the squad should stick around and protect uplinks that are in hazardous zones. Otherwise, the deployed uplinks are doing the team a disservice.
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Clone D
Grundstein Automation
971
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Posted - 2014.12.07 05:04:00 -
[4] - Quote
Meeko Fent wrote:Clone D wrote:Meeko Fent wrote:If you are solo, why do you need to go and drop copious amounts of equip? There are already 2 folks on the team spending copious amounts of time dropping copious amounts of equip. They are dropping the Links and Hives for their squad, and for all to use.
Of course, Having Hives for yourself is always smart, and having links is also a good idea. Tactical Flexibility. But ultimately, if your a solo logi (or trying to pretend to be one), You are going to do a **** job overall. The people you rep will love you, but the team overall gains nothing. If ground-deployed uplinks are left unattended, friendlies get camped and REd. Asking squadded logis to fly up and deploy links on high structures, separates them from their squad. Unless the squad sticks around and defends/guards the uplinks, they can be removed/camped/REd by hostiles. The job of deploying a single uplink to various strategic high structures, unreachable by enemy foot soldiers, is a job for a lonewolf. I don't know any lonewolves who will want to spend the entire remainder of the match in a logi outfit. So, for logis to do a good job, they had better deploy uplinks to secure, durable places. And the squad should stick around and protect uplinks that are in hazardous zones. Otherwise, the deployed uplinks are doing the team a disservice. ... So... Your saying, that for in order for Uplinks to work, you need to fly up and drop them in sniper perches, and then continue assaulting. And, so also apparently determined that a Scout, or a Assault, with their equipment, could NEVER be used to drop links where they are needed? Quite literally, the assault can drop all the uplinks it can deploy, and then go about its slaying. No drawback other then having to fit the damn things.
An assault who drops uplinks and then goes about his slaying is doing his team a disservice by leaving ground-deployed uplinks to be camped/REd or destroyed by hostiles. If you deploy uplinks in a hazardous zone, stick around and protect them and the friendlies who deploy there. Otherwise, you're just creating a deathtrap that will help your team get cloned.
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Clone D
Grundstein Automation
971
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Posted - 2014.12.07 05:11:00 -
[5] - Quote
ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:Clone D wrote:Meeko Fent wrote:Clone D wrote:Meeko Fent wrote:If you are solo, why do you need to go and drop copious amounts of equip? There are already 2 folks on the team spending copious amounts of time dropping copious amounts of equip. They are dropping the Links and Hives for their squad, and for all to use.
Of course, Having Hives for yourself is always smart, and having links is also a good idea. Tactical Flexibility. But ultimately, if your a solo logi (or trying to pretend to be one), You are going to do a **** job overall. The people you rep will love you, but the team overall gains nothing. If ground-deployed uplinks are left unattended, friendlies get camped and REd. Asking squadded logis to fly up and deploy links on high structures, separates them from their squad. Unless the squad sticks around and defends/guards the uplinks, they can be removed/camped/REd by hostiles. The job of deploying a single uplink to various strategic high structures, unreachable by enemy foot soldiers, is a job for a lonewolf. I don't know any lonewolves who will want to spend the entire remainder of the match in a logi outfit. So, for logis to do a good job, they had better deploy uplinks to secure, durable places. And the squad should stick around and protect uplinks that are in hazardous zones. Otherwise, the deployed uplinks are doing the team a disservice. ... So... Your saying, that for in order for Uplinks to work, you need to fly up and drop them in sniper perches, and then continue assaulting. And, so also apparently determined that a Scout, or a Assault, with their equipment, could NEVER be used to drop links where they are needed? Quite literally, the assault can drop all the uplinks it can deploy, and then go about its slaying. No drawback other then having to fit the damn things. An assault who drops uplinks and then goes about his slaying is doing his team a disservice by leaving ground-deployed uplinks to be camped/REd or destroyed by hostiles. If you deploy uplinks in a hazardous zone, stick around and protect them and the friendlies who deploy there. Otherwise, you're just creating a deathtrap that will help your team get cloned. what are you doing when you drop defenceless uplinks on a roof then leave to do your slaying
Rooftops and high structures are a much less hazardous place to deploy uplinks because they are not accessible to most of the players on the opposing team. People don't usually get camped/REd on rooftops. It happens at a much lower frequency than ground-deployment and is therefore safer. Some rooftops are hazardous. The point I'm making is, deploy uplinks in a secure area if you're not planning on personally ensuring their protection. Don't create a death trap 
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Clone D
Grundstein Automation
971
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Posted - 2014.12.07 05:18:00 -
[6] - Quote
Meeko Fent wrote:Clone D wrote:Meeko Fent wrote:Clone D wrote:Meeko Fent wrote:If you are solo, why do you need to go and drop copious amounts of equip? There are already 2 folks on the team spending copious amounts of time dropping copious amounts of equip. They are dropping the Links and Hives for their squad, and for all to use.
Of course, Having Hives for yourself is always smart, and having links is also a good idea. Tactical Flexibility. But ultimately, if your a solo logi (or trying to pretend to be one), You are going to do a **** job overall. The people you rep will love you, but the team overall gains nothing. If ground-deployed uplinks are left unattended, friendlies get camped and REd. Asking squadded logis to fly up and deploy links on high structures, separates them from their squad. Unless the squad sticks around and defends/guards the uplinks, they can be removed/camped/REd by hostiles. The job of deploying a single uplink to various strategic high structures, unreachable by enemy foot soldiers, is a job for a lonewolf. I don't know any lonewolves who will want to spend the entire remainder of the match in a logi outfit. So, for logis to do a good job, they had better deploy uplinks to secure, durable places. And the squad should stick around and protect uplinks that are in hazardous zones. Otherwise, the deployed uplinks are doing the team a disservice. ... So... Your saying, that for in order for Uplinks to work, you need to fly up and drop them in sniper perches, and then continue assaulting. And, so also apparently determined that a Scout, or a Assault, with their equipment, could NEVER be used to drop links where they are needed? Quite literally, the assault can drop all the uplinks it can deploy, and then go about its slaying. No drawback other then having to fit the damn things. An assault who drops uplinks and then goes about his slaying is doing his team a disservice by leaving ground-deployed uplinks to be camped/REd or destroyed by hostiles. If you deploy uplinks in a hazardous zone, stick around and protect them and the friendlies who deploy there. Otherwise, you're just creating a deathtrap that will help your team get cloned. *facepalm* So, what your saying, is that, when you drop your links on the roof of the spires on Line Harvest, you need to defend them. Because you just said "job of deploying a single uplink to various strategic high structures, unreachable by enemy foot soldiers, is a job for a lonewolf". And I just said how they are currently being done as such, and you said that that is irrelevent because you still have to defend to points. Even if they are in "high, unreachable structures". Which you just said they need to be placed in. Your post is a walking oxymoron, and your just posting for the sake of trying to defend your broken position.
Do you understand the idea of risk? Uplinks deployed on high structures, inaccessible to foot soldiers are at a low risk. Uplinks deployed on the ground are at a high risk. Personally protect high-risk uplinks that you deploy. No need to personally protect low-risk uplinks that you deploy.
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Clone D
Grundstein Automation
971
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Posted - 2014.12.07 05:25:00 -
[7] - Quote
ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:Clone D wrote:
Do you understand the idea of risk? Uplinks deployed on high structures, inaccessible to foot soldiers are at a low risk. Uplinks deployed on the ground are at a high risk. Personally protect high-risk uplinks that you deploy. No need to personally protect low-risk uplinks that you deploy.
with the new features i will be essentially taking my uplinks with me... is that safe enough for you
What I am trying to promote is responsible uplink deployment practices. As long as friendlies don't get killed because of my uplinks, I'm satisfied that I helped the team. It's Dust, so you may do whatever you want to. I am not here to approve of anyone's behavoir; only to spread my ideas.
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Clone D
Grundstein Automation
971
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Posted - 2014.12.07 05:34:00 -
[8] - Quote
Meeko Fent wrote:Clone D wrote:Do you understand the idea of risk? Uplinks deployed on high structures, inaccessible to foot soldiers are at a low risk. Uplinks deployed on the ground are at a high risk. Personally protect high-risk uplinks that you deploy. No need to personally protect low-risk uplinks that you deploy.
Yes, and as I said, you DON'T need a logi suit to place uplinks in low risk spots. A Assault does just fine. It has equip. If you're arguing against bandwidth with that point, you're missing the point of other suits having equip as well. Solo Players running assaults or scouts can effectively drop links in safe places. That is true. Bandwidth will not change that. You have no real point in bringing this up, considering the other options available for link dropping while retaining slaying efficiency.
Now that we have established this idea, let's append the fact that teams often need more than 1 or 2 uplinks at a time. Often there are between 5 to 7 essential strategic locations on a map that will really give the team a doorway into the most tactical positions, allowing them to easily forge their way to victory.
From a standpoint of efficiency, it is best if one person can call a dropship and supply the team with those 5 - 7 uplinks in low-risk, highly-effective locations, as opposed to 3 or 4 people calling in dropships and trying to coordinate uplink deployment so that the map is covered evenly.
Post BW, if a single merc deploys 5-7 uplinks, then in order for the uplinks to remain active, the bandwidth of his/her dropsuit must support the amount of deployed equipment, forcing the merc to remain in a logi suit for as long as he/she deems it necessary to provide team support in the form of uplinks. This renders the merc relatively ineffective for that period, now unable to deploy new equipment at the cost of losing uplinks and now forced to fit logi dropsuits for other purposes to prevent losing uplinks when changing battlefield functions. Whereas pre bandwidth, he/she could have continued contributing to the team more effectively in various classes of dropsuits.
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Clone D
Grundstein Automation
971
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Posted - 2014.12.07 05:50:00 -
[9] - Quote
Meeko Fent wrote:Clone D wrote:Meeko Fent wrote:Clone D wrote:Do you understand the idea of risk? Uplinks deployed on high structures, inaccessible to foot soldiers are at a low risk. Uplinks deployed on the ground are at a high risk. Personally protect high-risk uplinks that you deploy. No need to personally protect low-risk uplinks that you deploy.
Yes, and as I said, you DON'T need a logi suit to place uplinks in low risk spots. A Assault does just fine. It has equip. If you're arguing against bandwidth with that point, you're missing the point of other suits having equip as well. Solo Players running assaults or scouts can effectively drop links in safe places. That is true. Bandwidth will not change that. You have no real point in bringing this up, considering the other options available for link dropping while retaining slaying efficiency. Now that we have established this idea, let's append the fact that teams often need more than 1 or 2 uplinks at a time. Often there are between 5 to 7 essential strategic locations on a map that will really give the team a doorway into the most tactical positions, allowing them to easily forge their way to victory. From a standpoint of efficiency, it is best if one person can call a dropship and supply the team with those 5 - 7 uplinks in low-risk, highly-effective locations, as opposed to 3 or 4 people calling in dropships and trying to coordinate uplink deployment so that the map is covered evenly. Post BW, if a single merc deploys 5-7 uplinks, then in order for the uplinks to remain active, the bandwidth of his/her dropsuit must support the amount of deployed equipment, forcing the merc to remain in a logi suit for as long as he/she deems it necessary to provide team support in the form of uplinks. This renders the merc relatively ineffective for that period, now unable to deploy new equipment at the cost of losing uplinks and now forced to fit logi dropsuits for other purposes to prevent losing uplinks when changing battlefield functions. Whereas pre bandwidth, he/she could have continued contributing to the team more effectively in various classes of dropsuits. And that will hopefully encourage people to go around, drop the links where they need to, and contribute to the team as a whole. If The Pitcher could cover all the bases, then why do we need the team?
So my post BW options after I deploy uplinks become:
1. Build a slayer logi without deployable equipment.
2. Build a repper logi without deployable equipment.
3. Build a point defense logi without deployable equipment.
4. Build a suppression logi without deployable equipment.
5. Build a hacker logi without deployable equipment.
6. Build a close range assault logi without deployable equipment.
7. Build a mid range assault logi without deployable equipment.
8. Build a long range assault logi without deployable equipment.
9. Build an AV logi without deployable equipment.
10. etc. logi without deployable equipment.
This could be the same solution for deploying a proxy minefield as well.
What BW just did was limit which dropsuit I have to wear in order to play the game.
What BW just did was stop me from both effectively deploying a proxy minefield and effectively deploying uplinks and effectively deploying REs and effectively deploying hives simultaneously. I know how to do those things to effectively support the team and not spam. Why shouldn't I be able to drop multiple pieces of responsibly-placed equipment and then carry on in other roles and other dropsuits?
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Clone D
Grundstein Automation
972
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Posted - 2014.12.07 06:30:00 -
[10] - Quote
CELESTA AUNGM wrote:Well,... not exactly. What I think is that the word "EFFECTIVELY" when it comes to deploying equipment, is tiffany-twisted difference in each player's overconfident mind. MANY of us think we have been "effectively" deploying and "effectively" helping players... I'm expecting that the Bandwith constraint will force all equipment carriers to either improve and sharpen their idea of effective deployment was, OR retire from equipment deployment and let some better carriers handle that job. ...Yep, sounds like an insult... but it's just logic that is cold sometimes. 
I could point out specific locations on maps where uplinks have a high frequency of enduring the match.
I could point out specific locations on maps where proxies have a high frequency of destroying ground vehicles.
I could point out specific locations on maps where REs have a high frequency of getting kills during detonation.
I could point out specific locations on maps where hives are frequently needed by assorted classes, whether AV or reliable outposts for holding ground.
Does that sound like I don't know what I'm doing? I'm sure if you gathered statistical evidence, it would reflect that I know what I'm doing. Experienced players would probably agree that these are strategic locations that are refined empirically by playing many battles.
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Clone D
Grundstein Automation
984
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Posted - 2014.12.07 13:24:00 -
[11] - Quote
ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:i have been killed far more times jumping off buildings with zero situation awareness of what's waiting below than i ever have spawning in on a ground uplink.
If you want to prevent zero situational awareneess, look around and down before you jump, my fellow merc. Intentionally face in the direction that makes the most sense when you land. This is far better than ground-spawn on top of a hostile RE.
ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:there is a huge difference between safe/secure uplinks and efficient uplinks. some of your uplinks might get the odd players safely into the game but its my uplinks that get them into the fight. my uplinks are constantly burning out. to me thats efficiency not placing them somewhere they are not needed much at all
I don't want to place uplinks where they are not needed. What would be the point of that?
I'm glad that your ground-deployed uplinks help soldiers get into the fight, bro. That's important. But I also hope that somebody is protecting them, so they don't get camped/REd and destroyed by hostiles.
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Clone D
Grundstein Automation
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Posted - 2014.12.07 17:22:00 -
[12] - Quote
ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:please stop repeating this nonsense about how uplinks are always camped, its a rare occasion if that. it is of minor consequence. every one of your arguments is a repeat of this argument which rarely affects anyone. besides even if it where true the new uplinks after the patch will scan out enemy campers so this whole argument is BS. it is going to be even less likely for players to camp equipment.
While I always check the overhead map thoroughly before spawning in, my experience with using ground spawns (both uplinks and CRUs) has shown me a high frequency of campers. Why do people camp/RE? Because they are easy kills. Some matches, I have been camped as much as 75% of spawn ins due to people having placed unsecured uplinks. I have frequenly observed my team spawn camping, and when I play with advanced squads, nobody destroys a link without first asking, "Are we camping this?"
Uplinks and CRUs will reveal limited TACNET data post 1.10, with limited range and limited precision. Don't think that camping is about to come to a halt. People will simply build fittings that allow them to camp without being picked up by CRU/uplink passive scans. Besides, how hard is it to camp by standing further than 5 - 15 m away? That is basic camping distance anyway.
We will see how likely it is for players to camp uplinks post 1.10. I am guessing that nothing will change in regard to spawn campers.
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Clone D
Grundstein Automation
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Posted - 2014.12.07 18:29:00 -
[13] - Quote
DDx77 wrote:Imo it would be better when switching suits to have only the equipment that doesn't fall in with that suits BW be destroyed, not a complete wipe of equipment
(Unless I'm not understanding BW correctly)
Equipment will only disappear, in the order that it was dropped, if the deployed equipment exceeds the new dropsuit's BW. This aligns with your preference, so no worries there. It will not disappear completely unless you pull a non-commando heavy frame per http://dust514.com/news/blog/2014/12/uprising-1.10-overview-patch-notes/.
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