DUST Search - So, the BrAR...

LUGMOS wrote:

Meeko Fent wrote:

LUGMOS wrote:

First off, what does breach mean to you player base?

Oh, you say something that can punch through a line of defense, say, a room? OK then. Based off of that logic:

1. Keep DPS the same as it is now
2. Nerf range to be 5-10 meters less than the regular variant's optimal
3. Nerf ammo reserve, as it should be restricted to breaching and shouldn't be capable of sustained attack without nanohives

My reasoning for #2 is that in its current state, there is no reason to run the regular variant over the breach, DPS, damage application, range, and damage per clip are all superior on it. The range Nerf would further define its role as the better alternative for breaching situations.

If it's losing a it reserve, I'd add onto that a widening of the dispersion (as to weaken it at range) and a VERY FUKING SMALL increase in damage. 2-5 points of hurt added. It brings it to be superior then a regular AR at "breaching range", but then suffers as range increases. Then, drop the optimal 20meters to 50, to more securely nail it into its spot.

^this guy gets it

100% agree. I would have added the more damage part, but I know soem body would be like " y u add damage to OP weapon!"

Really, this should be gold.

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Meeko Fent Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State 2193	Posted - 2014.12.05 01:45:00 - [1] - Quote What do you guys want to do with it. You all want to nerf it, but so few actually seem to know what they think it wrong. They just say the "Something is wrong" because of its. use. I've seen people say that The damage increase was too much, and that the range needs to be toned down. IMO, the range should be toned down a bit (A historically CQC gun hitting FARTHER [By 4 meters] then its regular range counterpart? lulno), but reducing its damage will be the deathstroke to it, again. Its current DPS is something similar to the Regular AR, so nerfing it would drag it back into the dark dungeon w/ the Old Flay and the AV nades. And I hear the Dungeon Master is getting his whips out. It does gain more from a damage mod then a Regular does, so that's a thing. Not sure If its a BIG issue, but that's a niche the Breach could fit in. Glass Cannoning a Assault. The thing has a tighter dispersion, and so perhaps it makes it better at long range? I guess? All the rifles are VERY accurate anyway. Any thoughts? I'd just like to spark thoughts on WHY the breach is OP, because we all seem to be bandwagoning. I Live for Tears
Jacques Cayton II Titans of Phoenix 1199	Posted - 2014.12.05 02:54:00 - [2] - Quote Lower range higher kick in ads which is how all cqc weapons should be We fight for the future of the State not our personal goals
BL4CKST4R La Muerte Eterna Dark Taboo 3383	Posted - 2014.12.05 03:25:00 - [3] - Quote Jacques Cayton II wrote: Lower range higher kick in ads which is how all cqc weapons should be And increase dps since range is going down supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
Joel II X Bacon with a bottle of Quafe 4884	Posted - 2014.12.05 03:29:00 - [4] - Quote Decrease range, and lower damage by 5 percent. Wasn't it increased by 14% last time? Like what the f-...? Oh, and increase Breach Shotgun to 3 per clip while we're at it.
BL4CKST4R La Muerte Eterna Dark Taboo 3383	Posted - 2014.12.05 03:30:00 - [5] - Quote Joel II X wrote: Decrease range, and lower damage by 5 percent. Wasn't it increased by 14% last time? Like what the f-...? Oh, and increase Breach Shotgun to 3 per clip while we're at it. Why would yo decrease the range AND the damage, doesn't make sense... supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
Jacques Cayton II Titans of Phoenix 1200	Posted - 2014.12.05 03:36:00 - [6] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: Jacques Cayton II wrote: Lower range higher kick in ads which is how all cqc weapons should be And increase dps since range is going down Doesnt need dps increase. That should be a racial bonus not a bonus to everyone We fight for the future of the State not our personal goals
BL4CKST4R La Muerte Eterna Dark Taboo 3383	Posted - 2014.12.05 03:39:00 - [7] - Quote Jacques Cayton II wrote: BL4CKST4R wrote: Jacques Cayton II wrote: Lower range higher kick in ads which is how all cqc weapons should be And increase dps since range is going down Doesnt need dps increase. That should be a racial bonus not a bonus to everyone Yeah but only the Gallente assaults, or commandos, would get a bonus to make up for the range loss. Equally by your logic then the DPS or range of every weapon should be reduced and then buffed racially. supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 994	Posted - 2014.12.05 03:50:00 - [8] - Quote Spitballing ... A) Keep damage and nerf ultra-precise hipfire. B) Keep ultra-precise hipfire and nerf damage.
Bojo The Mighty Condor Squad 5185	Posted - 2014.12.05 03:53:00 - [9] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: Spitballing ... A) Keep damage and nerf ultra-precise hipfire. B) Keep ultra-precise hipfire and nerf damage. Wrong! Keep ultra-precise hipfire, nerf RoF I of all people should know how to nerf the breach Bojo For CPM
Daddrobit You Can Call Me Daddy 1123	Posted - 2014.12.05 04:01:00 - [10] - Quote Increase range, decrease DPS to be between RR and AR. O.G. Pink Fluffy Bunny

Meisterjager Jagermeister Red and Silver Hand Amarr Empire 537	Posted - 2014.12.05 04:09:00 - [11] - Quote I notice a some hypocrisy when players discuss the breach ar. Players suggest= -Nerf breach ar range because it is too long, it competes with rail rifle, it should only be cqc -Lower kick on assault rail rifle so rr users can have a decent cqc weapon Do you see the hypocrisy in there? AKA - StarVenger
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 3024	Posted - 2014.12.05 04:15:00 - [12] - Quote Equal range to the regular AR (use burst or tac for range) Reduce DPS to 92.5% of current AR DPS, and let it keep its perfect handling. (The thing is easier to use than an HMG...) "Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 3024	Posted - 2014.12.05 04:17:00 - [13] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: Jacques Cayton II wrote: Lower range higher kick in ads which is how all cqc weapons should be And increase dps since range is going down That makes 0 sense. DPS is a function of range. Higher DPS gives you more range. This terrible "Give moar DPS to my weapon becuz lo range" argument is silly if you actually think for a second. "Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.
BL4CKST4R La Muerte Eterna Dark Taboo 3384	Posted - 2014.12.05 04:34:00 - [14] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: BL4CKST4R wrote: Jacques Cayton II wrote: Lower range higher kick in ads which is how all cqc weapons should be And increase dps since range is going down That makes 0 sense. DPS is a function of range. Higher DPS gives you more range. This terrible "Give moar DPS to my weapon becuz lo range" argument is silly if you actually think for a second. So it's perfectly okay for the weapon to do the same dps as the regular AR yet at 30 meters? So does that means it's perfectly okay for the aRR to have 400 dps but only have an optimal of 60 meters? There is a reason why long range weapons have lower dps, although not by much, but because it is balanced. That's the whole point of using short range weapons is to have high dps, If my AR was only good at 40 meters and had the same dps as a rail I would never have a reason to use the AR. supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
Meeko Fent Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State 2194	Posted - 2014.12.05 04:34:00 - [15] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: BL4CKST4R wrote: Jacques Cayton II wrote: Lower range higher kick in ads which is how all cqc weapons should be And increase dps since range is going down That makes 0 sense. DPS is a function of range. Higher DPS gives you more range. This terrible "Give moar DPS to my weapon becuz lo range" argument is silly if you actually think for a second. Explain this logic if you would please. DPS is just the amount of damage dealt in a second, what does it have to do with range? I Live for Tears
LUGMOS YELLOW JESUS EXP FORCE 1028	Posted - 2014.12.05 05:32:00 - [16] - Quote First off, what does breach mean to you player base? Oh, you say something that can punch through a line of defense, say, a room? OK then. Based off of that logic: 1. Keep DPS the same as it is now 2. Nerf range to be 5-10 meters less than the regular variant's optimal 3. Nerf ammo reserve, as it should be restricted to breaching and shouldn't be capable of sustained attack without nanohives My reasoning for #2 is that in its current state, there is no reason to run the regular variant over the breach, DPS, damage application, range, and damage per clip are all superior on it. The range Nerf would further define its role as the better alternative for breaching situations. Official QuafeGäó Advocate Anti-FoTM Prof. V Forum Scavenger Prof. V
Jack 3enimble Titans of Phoenix 514	Posted - 2014.12.05 05:35:00 - [17] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: Jacques Cayton II wrote: BL4CKST4R wrote: Jacques Cayton II wrote: Lower range higher kick in ads which is how all cqc weapons should be And increase dps since range is going down Doesnt need dps increase. That should be a racial bonus not a bonus to everyone Yeah but only the Gallente assaults, or commandos, would get a bonus to make up for the range loss. Equally by your logic then the DPS or range of every weapon should be reduced and then buffed racially. We're done pooping on my racial weapons, now it's your turn
Jack 3enimble Titans of Phoenix 514	Posted - 2014.12.05 05:38:00 - [18] - Quote Meisterjager Jagermeister wrote: I notice a some hypocrisy when players discuss the breach ar. Players suggest= -Nerf breach ar range because it is too long, it competes with rail rifle, it should only be cqc -Lower kick on assault rail rifle so rr users can have a decent cqc weapon Do you see the hypocrisy in there? I don't think you know the difference between the ARR and RR.
LUGMOS YELLOW JESUS EXP FORCE 1028	Posted - 2014.12.05 05:50:00 - [19] - Quote Jack 3enimble wrote: Meisterjager Jagermeister wrote: I notice a some hypocrisy when players discuss the breach ar. Players suggest= -Nerf breach ar range because it is too long, it competes with rail rifle, it should only be cqc -Lower kick on assault rail rifle so rr users can have a decent cqc weapon Do you see the hypocrisy in there? I don't think you know the difference between the ARR and RR. The ARR wasn't supposed to be CQC range, just closer than the rail rifle... Official QuafeGäó Advocate Anti-FoTM Prof. V Forum Scavenger Prof. V
Summa Militum Hidd3n Dragon 102	Posted - 2014.12.05 05:52:00 - [20] - Quote Meeko Fent wrote: What do you guys want to do with it. You all want to nerf it, but so few actually seem to know what they think it wrong. They just say the "Something is wrong" because of its. use. I've seen people say that The damage increase was too much, and that the range needs to be toned down. IMO, the range should be toned down a bit (A historically CQC gun hitting FARTHER [By 4 meters] then its regular range counterpart? lulno), but reducing its damage will be the deathstroke to it, again. Its current DPS is something similar to the Regular AR, so nerfing it would drag it back into the dark dungeon w/ the Old Flay and the AV nades. And I hear the Dungeon Master is getting his whips out. It does gain more from a damage mod then a Regular does, so that's a thing. Not sure If its a BIG issue, but that's a niche the Breach could fit in. Glass Cannoning a Assault. The thing has a tighter dispersion, and so perhaps it makes it better at long range? I guess? All the rifles are VERY accurate anyway. Any thoughts? I'd just like to spark thoughts on WHY the breach is OP, because we all seem to be bandwagoning. I think they should leave the Breach Assault Rifle alone. There is nothing wrong with it.

Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 8687	Posted - 2014.12.05 05:52:00 - [21] - Quote Meisterjager Jagermeister wrote: I notice a some hypocrisy when players discuss the breach ar. Players suggest= -Nerf breach ar range because it is too long, it competes with rail rifle, it should only be cqc -Lower kick on assault rail rifle so rr users can have a decent cqc weapon Do you see the hypocrisy in there? That's your Classic Caldari Silver Spoon **** right there. I'd personally prefer for the breach to turn more into a Rail Rifle like Plasma Rifle. More Range, less Damage per shot. But that's just me in my niche opinion. CCP holds the Caldari's hand so this doesn't happen again.
Meeko Fent Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State 2194	Posted - 2014.12.05 05:54:00 - [22] - Quote LUGMOS wrote: First off, what does breach mean to you player base? Oh, you say something that can punch through a line of defense, say, a room? OK then. Based off of that logic: 1. Keep DPS the same as it is now 2. Nerf range to be 5-10 meters less than the regular variant's optimal 3. Nerf ammo reserve, as it should be restricted to breaching and shouldn't be capable of sustained attack without nanohives My reasoning for #2 is that in its current state, there is no reason to run the regular variant over the breach, DPS, damage application, range, and damage per clip are all superior on it. The range Nerf would further define its role as the better alternative for breaching situations. If it's losing a it reserve, I'd add onto that a widening of the dispersion (as to weaken it at range) and a VERY FUKING SMALL increase in damage. 2-5 points of hurt added. It brings it to be superior then a regular AR at "breaching range", but then suffers as range increases. Then, drop the optimal 20meters to 50, to more securely nail it into its spot. I Live for Tears
LUGMOS YELLOW JESUS EXP FORCE 1029	Posted - 2014.12.05 06:01:00 - [23] - Quote Meeko Fent wrote: LUGMOS wrote: First off, what does breach mean to you player base? Oh, you say something that can punch through a line of defense, say, a room? OK then. Based off of that logic: 1. Keep DPS the same as it is now 2. Nerf range to be 5-10 meters less than the regular variant's optimal 3. Nerf ammo reserve, as it should be restricted to breaching and shouldn't be capable of sustained attack without nanohives My reasoning for #2 is that in its current state, there is no reason to run the regular variant over the breach, DPS, damage application, range, and damage per clip are all superior on it. The range Nerf would further define its role as the better alternative for breaching situations. If it's losing a it reserve, I'd add onto that a widening of the dispersion (as to weaken it at range) and a VERY FUKING SMALL increase in damage. 2-5 points of hurt added. It brings it to be superior then a regular AR at "breaching range", but then suffers as range increases. Then, drop the optimal 20meters to 50, to more securely nail it into its spot. ^this guy gets it 100% agree. I would have added the more damage part, but I know soem body would be like " y u add damage to OP weapon!" Really, this should be gold. Official QuafeGäó Advocate Anti-FoTM Prof. V Forum Scavenger Prof. V
Meeko Fent Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State 2194	Posted - 2014.12.05 06:10:00 - [24] - Quote LUGMOS wrote: Meeko Fent wrote: LUGMOS wrote: First off, what does breach mean to you player base? Oh, you say something that can punch through a line of defense, say, a room? OK then. Based off of that logic: 1. Keep DPS the same as it is now 2. Nerf range to be 5-10 meters less than the regular variant's optimal 3. Nerf ammo reserve, as it should be restricted to breaching and shouldn't be capable of sustained attack without nanohives My reasoning for #2 is that in its current state, there is no reason to run the regular variant over the breach, DPS, damage application, range, and damage per clip are all superior on it. The range Nerf would further define its role as the better alternative for breaching situations. If it's losing a it reserve, I'd add onto that a widening of the dispersion (as to weaken it at range) and a VERY FUKING SMALL increase in damage. 2-5 points of hurt added. It brings it to be superior then a regular AR at "breaching range", but then suffers as range increases. Then, drop the optimal 20meters to 50, to more securely nail it into its spot. ^this guy gets it 100% agree. I would have added the more damage part, but I know soem body would be like " y u add damage to OP weapon!" Really, this should be gold. I hope I did... Otherwise if have no really reason to have made the OP in the first place. I Live for Tears
LUGMOS YELLOW JESUS EXP FORCE 1029	Posted - 2014.12.05 06:23:00 - [25] - Quote Meeko Fent wrote: I hope I did... Otherwise if have no really reason to have made the OP in the first place. Logic is a unicorn, only ridden by those who understand it. Official QuafeGäó Advocate Anti-FoTM Prof. V Forum Scavenger Prof. V
Vesta Opalus Bloodline Rebellion Capital Punishment. 224	Posted - 2014.12.05 06:26:00 - [26] - Quote Meeko Fent wrote: IMO, the range should be toned down a bit (A historically CQC gun hitting FARTHER [By 4 meters] then its regular range counterpart? lulno), but reducing its damage will be the deathstroke to it, again. Its current DPS is something similar to the Regular AR, so nerfing it would drag it back into the dark dungeon w/ the Old Flay and the AV nades. And I hear the Dungeon Master is getting his whips out. Breach variants in this game have farther range, like the breach rail rifle (aka the rail rifle) vs. the assault rail rifle. I dont think this weapon is OP in any case, until I see some data from CCP. I do think the other plasma rifles are crap though, and need to be improved.
Meeko Fent Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State 2195	Posted - 2014.12.05 06:36:00 - [27] - Quote Vesta Opalus wrote: Meeko Fent wrote: IMO, the range should be toned down a bit (A historically CQC gun hitting FARTHER [By 4 meters] then its regular range counterpart? lulno), but reducing its damage will be the deathstroke to it, again. Its current DPS is something similar to the Regular AR, so nerfing it would drag it back into the dark dungeon w/ the Old Flay and the AV nades. And I hear the Dungeon Master is getting his whips out. Breach variants in this game have farther range, like the breach rail rifle (aka the rail rifle) vs. the assault rail rifle. I dont think this weapon is OP in any case, until I see some data from CCP. I do think the other plasma rifles are crap though, and need to be improved. The rail rifle is like that because it's a Caldari gun. Not because it's a breach style rifle. Way back when, the breach weapons were all the CQC versions. They all had lower range but higher damage. Historically. The old BrAR, the breach SMG, the breach shotty, the breach ScP, all historically have had shorter ranges (by so e margin) then the regular guns. I Live for Tears
G Felix 303	Posted - 2014.12.05 06:46:00 - [28] - Quote Meeko Fent wrote: Vesta Opalus wrote: Meeko Fent wrote: IMO, the range should be toned down a bit (A historically CQC gun hitting FARTHER [By 4 meters] then its regular range counterpart? lulno), but reducing its damage will be the deathstroke to it, again. Its current DPS is something similar to the Regular AR, so nerfing it would drag it back into the dark dungeon w/ the Old Flay and the AV nades. And I hear the Dungeon Master is getting his whips out. Breach variants in this game have farther range, like the breach rail rifle (aka the rail rifle) vs. the assault rail rifle. I dont think this weapon is OP in any case, until I see some data from CCP. I do think the other plasma rifles are crap though, and need to be improved. The rail rifle is like that because it's a Caldari gun. Not because it's a breach style rifle. Way back when, the breach weapons were all the CQC versions. They all had lower range but higher damage. Historically. The old BrAR, the breach SMG, the breach shotty, the breach ScP, all historically have had shorter ranges (by so e margin) then the regular guns. I was always under the impression that the BrAR and BurstAR were originally placeholders for the RR and CR, respectively. If this is true, the BrAR has increased range and lower RoF to emulate the RR's niche. Dust can be frustrating. (Gò»°Gûí°)Gò»n+¦ Gö+GöüGö+)
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 19861	Posted - 2014.12.05 06:51:00 - [29] - Quote Joel II X wrote: Decrease range, and lower damage by 5 percent. Wasn't it increased by 14% last time? Like what the f-...? Oh, and increase Breach Shotgun to 3 per clip while we're at it. It was increased by 14% because previously it did an absolutely laughable amount of damage. Before the series of hotfixes it did less DPS than a flaylock on splash. The Federation is not a defined region of space, of planets, of mountains, rivers, or woods. It is a vision.
Pvt Numnutz Prophets of the Velocirapture 2017	Posted - 2014.12.05 09:41:00 - [30] - Quote Basic breach assault rifle: 2,460 ISK 58.1 base damage per shot 415.16 DPS 36 round mag 300 total rounds No kick No charge 74m effective range 56.78 accuracy rating Kaalakiota rail rifle: 47,220 ISK 51.7 base damage per shot 397.69 DPS 42 round mag 252 total rounds LOTS of kick 0.45s charge 100m effective range 54.47 accuracy rating For starters, I don't think a basic rifle should ever outclass a proto rifle. Master Skyshark rider Kaalaka dakka tamer



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