An HAV's primary role should be to take out hard targets. Infantry are soft targets, installations and other vehicles are hard for clarification.

HAVs should be slay-oriented as they can't hack or fit indoors or be stealthy or fast.

The primary turret of an HAV should ideally be to take out hard targets and be longer-ranged then most infantry weaponry.

I agree that HAVs should have a hard time taking out infantry, ignoring the morons who stay still (Like literally...) or run in perfectly straight lines towards the HAV at long range or decide to "Hug it out" with an HAV for extended periods of time with no legitimate counter-weapon.

Suppression should be possible as they should have OHK weapons (More or less) to make infantry want to be wary, though again the OHK weapons should take skill to hit infantry with (Like our railguns right now, I love the spool-up time, gorgeous perfect Large Turrets).

So in summary I would agree with your statement with my clarifying points above.

I also want to go on the record and say I think Large Blaster Turrets need to be reworked, and that an HAV with operational small turrets should make infantry be very, very afraid.

The 1.7 hatred of tanks has died down for me, though while I don't hate tanks, what I do loathe are the good pilots. I'm not talking about the ones who can farm noobs with their squad of tanks all day long and never die because they've become masters of fleeing in their Cal scouts when their tank is threatened, I'm talking about the ones who are just so good you can't kill them on your own. At this point in the game, I usually see tanks as free warpoints, boundless RE's, packed Lai Dais, and a plasma cannon make short work of any tank... but those pilots who know what they're doing? Good luck even getting near them. So far, I've only encountered one of these in the entire game. Calypso (Few numbers in there, can't recall em though) This ****** is my bane so far and despite running into him in game about four times, I've never been able to kill him. Always runs small rails on his Sica and Gunlogi and he/she certainly knows how to use them to repel infantry where the large turret fails. I've yet to see him die in general, but I'm still hopeful.

Things I dislike about tanking... True mentioned most of it. The role just doesn't feel all that rewarding anymore. Like scouts, it used to require a lot more skill. Activating modules at just the right times meant the difference between life and death, and while tankers were rare before 1.7, those who existed were exceptionally good. Tanks were generally more fun because of this, and due to their price tags, for most of the more casual players like myself, they were also more of a treat to run, a reward of sorts, like what proto was meant to be. The price tag drop though, as well as the low SP investment required to "tank" means that anyone can get in one and do alright if they don't suck completely. Militia tanks are perfectly viable if fit right and the pilot can back up the lack of modules and SP investment with skill, thus we see a lot more tanks on the battlefield and they become an annoyance rather than the great threat they were back in Chrome or even early Uprising.

Vehicles are awful. They need to be completely reworked from the ground up.

No racial parity
Lackluster customization/fitting options
Unnecessarily expensive
Worst vehicle interplay I have ever had the displeasure of experiencing
Too threatening to infantry in some cases (large blaster turret needs to be completely redone)


LAVs are horribly made and are completely unfit for any combat scenarios do to its moronic design. Physics are bad, handling is bad. Small turrets are death traps. Too expensive for what they give you.

I have no idea about Dropships, so I will just say they are badly implemented and thought out. Look to real-world roles that aerial vehicles fill, and emulate those.

HAVs are supposed to focus on large targets, not stupid soft infantry. Alas, there is a supreme lack of inter-vehicular combat due to LAVs being bad deathtraps, no MAVs, no MTACs, so really, there is little else for HAVs to target other than infantry and other HAVs. BORING.

VEHICLES ARE LAME.

Is that Calypso guy the guy that always seems to have a small rail gunner? If so, yeah that guy ******* wrecks or at least that two man team. The large rail not such an issue but the guy on the small rail never seems to miss when I'm trying to forge him. It's a nightmare dealing with those two.

So, the general idea is that it is too unfulfilling and boring, with lack of actual skill in input from the operator. It is more about slaying, as its focus has been shifted from having to do multiple things at once, tank battles are generally nonexistent and bland.

So, more food for thought:
What would be the best way to bring in more fun to tanking?
Is the power of AV scaring some tankers away from fielding tanks?
Is it the lack of profit to be made?
Is it the general lackluster in tank battle mechanics/modules?
Would bringing in more diversity in modules and vehicles solve some puzzles?
Should tank survivability versus AV be increased? Maybe just the Madrugar/Soma?

So, the general idea is that it is too unfulfilling and boring, with lack of actual skill in input from the operator. It is more about slaying, as its focus has been shifted from having to do multiple things at once, tank battles are generally nonexistent and bland.

So, more food for thought:
What would be the best way to bring in more fun to tanking?
Is the power of AV scaring some tankers away from fielding tanks?
Is it the lack of profit to be made?
Is it the general lackluster in tank battle mechanics/modules?
Would bringing in more diversity in modules and vehicles solve some puzzles?
Should tank survivability versus AV be increased? Maybe just the Madrugar/Soma?

I disagree with your general consensus. In all fairness, all roles outside of Logi's is a slayer role, by general consensus, and the general consensus of Logi's seems to be that Logi's should be able to slay too lol. People aren't generally creative, that doesn't mean you can't do many creative things with HAV's. Most people just think big tank me kill now, though.

I'd say bring the old modules and hulls back, swap things back to active modules but allow that more advanced style of gameplay to be more rewarding. For those who don't know what they're doing though, AV likely sends the less skilled fleeing to the forums to complain, but for the pilots who have it together, it's a joke.

Most of the time I've seen him, he's actually solo, he just swaps in between piloting and gunning, but yea, it is indeed a nightmare to try and take him out. One of the few I've come across that actually requires a two-three man team to down.

I was thinking passive reps forever was a good idea, but there should be an option for sort of like a rep booster, an active module that boosts the rep rate of a vehicle for some amount of time, having a cool down. This would encourage smart module activation and would reward smarter gameplay. The overall module system as has been pointed out before generally lacks what it used to have in diversity; you had different modules to choose from that made your tank different from others'.

I'd say bring the old modules and hulls back, swap things back to active modules but allow that more advanced style of gameplay to be more rewarding. For those who don't know what they're doing though, AV likely sends the less skilled fleeing to the forums to complain, but for the pilots who have it together, it's a joke.

Most of the time I've seen him, he's actually solo, he just swaps in between piloting and gunning, but yea, it is indeed a nightmare to try and take him out. One of the few I've come across that actually requires a two-three man team to down.

OK, so what reasoning do you give that there are no real HAV battles anymore?

I assure you, I'm definitely not Spkr 2.0 in any way. I just want HAVs to be something... More meaningful. And more fulfilling.

I can't answer a question that supposes something I don't agree with. HAV battles occur pretty much every time I enter a HAV. Only when the infantry AV dedicates hard to stopping me do I really get destroyed otherwise it takes another HAV to dominate me. And that's coming from someone that doesn't even have ADV/PRO modules.

So you think HAVs are perfect right now...

I want to see where the community sees shortcomings with HAVs as they stand at the moment. Would you like to see more modules reintroduced? What would you like to see more in an HAV?

So in the light of this question, what about vehicles pisses you off?

1. If you don't kill it, they go 30-0 and lose no ISK?
2. Is it because they instagank you?
3. Is it because all they're good for is camping CRUs?
4. Is it because they have no defined role?
5. Is it because they die too quickly to make a difference?
6. Do you feel that AV should be a more viable counter to HAVs and ADS than other HAVs or ADS?
7. Other? And please explain what.

For pilots:
1. When a tank on the enemy team appears, are you reluctant to field your own in fear of death?
2. Do you feel AV should be a thorn on your backside, while other vehicles the real threat?
3. Should Forge Guns be more effective than swarms?
4. Should Plasma Cannons be more effective than swarms?
5. Do you think AV or Anti Infantry is your primary role as a HAV/ADS pilot?

I will also post a possible solution if my suspicions are correct in the second post, which shall be reserved.

Perfect! I knew I could get more out of you!

As for the introduction of different modules, it would not be difficult and most entirely possible. The only reason they still aren't in game is because of balancing, as Rattati doesn't believe there is true balance in vehicles ATM.

The RE-introduction of modules wouldn't be difficult, as the assets exist and it would only be a matter of putting them back into the game code. Only numbers would be changed on them.

I would totally agree with you on the armor vehicle bit. Its not even just HAVs. Its all armor vehicles. I had proposed an idea to temporarily remove AV weapon damage profiles, as there is only one shield based AV weapon at the moment, which is entirely unfair to armor vehicles. What's more is that their hardeners also have less strength in comparison. The original intent was for armor hardeners to reflect an armor tank's strength as a vehicle that could take constant hits, and for shield HAVs to be hit and run specialists. Its why the armor hardener doesn't have as much resistance but lasts longer. However, the armor tanks strengths isnt good against the alpha based rail and missile shield based tanks, as the resists won't do you much good. At least not as much as the shield tank's would...

I was thinking passive reps forever was a good idea, but there should be an option for sort of like a rep booster, an active module that boosts the rep rate of a vehicle for some amount of time, having a cool down. This would encourage smart module activation and would reward smarter gameplay. The overall module system as has been pointed out before generally lacks what it used to have in diversity; you had different modules to choose from that made your tank different from others'.

We used to have that. On a Madrugar in the old days, the only module you didn't have to activate was an armor plate. I've juggled a rep, 3 hardeners, a scanner and a NOS. On a Gunnlogi, I used to juggle a booster and 3 hardeners.

Active modules are certainly not new, and there's a lot of us that perfected module management/activation in order to survive as well as take out vehicles.

It's called an Assault Drop Ship, and it's very expensive - some 200K ISK.

That's not at all expensive. My current Gunnlogi missile fit is 455k ISK, which is 1/3 the price my PC-quality fit used to cost.

In all fairness, currently a 200kish ADS will get swatted out of the sky in 2-3 swarm volleys aka a single load aka one person can shoot those things out of the sky. The good ADS cost far more. HAVs are only really more expensive than an ADS when you use 2 proto small turrets on the HAV. Because, turrets in general are ridiculously over priced.

That's not at all expensive. My current Gunnlogi missile fit is 455k ISK, which is 1/3 the price my PC-quality fit used to cost.

Pfff not even.

I loved it when Prototype turrets cost 981,000 ISK!