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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
15354
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Posted - 2014.12.02 23:43:00 -
[1] - Quote
As a Tank Operator (Aero keeps reminding me not to call them pilots) I feel its a matter of two things that irk me.
1.) A narrow and un-fufilling Skill tree that does not reward my SP investment, nor allow to me to specialise in specific types of tanking or racial groups tanks. It feels tacked on a poorly thought out.
2.) Lack of Vehicle Progression...... ever since 1.7 with the removal of Enforcers and prior to that the removal of Marauders...... tanks don't feel like they have an END GAME option. I put 20 Million SP into tanks and I'm done with what should be something like a 30 Million SP or higher role.
E.G- I buy Vehicle Command V, LAV Command III (or something I dunno since I don't care), and HAV Command I........ (and I have end game tank hulls).
No racial divisions into the role (each racial groups HAV should have its own separate skills to operate like drop-suits and ships in EVE.
No in depth skill trees. Armour Upgrades is all of three skills (one for accesses Armour Reppers, one Plating and Hardeners, and one for reducing the speed penalties of Armour plates.
Once upon a time Armour have 4 skills (Adaptation, Repair Systems, Plating, and Repairing) Shield had 5 skills (Adaptation, Boost Systems, Transporting, Extension, and Recharging), Vehicles also had core fitting skills and then more generic skills for scanners, Heat Sinks, Etc.
One Good thing is that the Turret Operation Tree is nice and fleshed out.
I honestly (and most will crucify me for saying this) loved HAV control when it was all about your skills investments, module selection, and plain tactical sense.
I said, "Empress, I do this, I thought that you knew this.
Can't stand non-believers and honest, the truth is...
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
15357
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Posted - 2014.12.02 23:56:00 -
[2] - Quote
LUGMOS wrote:
For pilots:
1. When a tank on the enemy team appears, are you reluctant to field your own in fear of death?
2. Do you feel AV should be a thorn on your backside, while other vehicles the real threat?
3. Should Forge Guns be more effective than swarms?
4. Should Plasma Cannons be more effective than swarms?
5. Do you think AV or Anti Infantry is your primary role as a HAV/ADS pilot?
1.) When the enemy team appears I want to drive right into the middle of them and rely on my modules and skill to carry me through the engagement in a manner befitting my role....but I'd rather have a little chat with that Gunnlogi over there so get the **** out of my way infantrymen!
2.) Oh hell yeah. They should be powerful units that continually threaten vehicles on the map requiring us to make use of our modules and continually refine out fits....at the same time no one AVer should ever lock down entire maps from inaccessible locations.
3.) Yes and no. The Forgegun is an alpha weapon..... this it should hit damn hard vs all targets. The swarms by comparison are more like DPS weapon but have the benefits of automatic tracking which helps them pick off smaller more mobile targets. I really am not qualified to answer.
4.) I dunno?
5.) Anti Vehicle for sure. You don't stick an Anti Infantry Gun the equivalent of a .50 Calibre Machine Gun to a Main Battle tank and try to pass it off as a 120mm Cannon..... you just don't. What you do is fit an actual 120mm cannon that wrecks other ground based vehicles and shoots high explosive ammunition that wrecks static emplacements like a mutha ******.
I said, "Empress, I do this, I thought that you knew this.
Can't stand non-believers and honest, the truth is...
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
15360
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Posted - 2014.12.03 00:07:00 -
[3] - Quote
LUGMOS wrote:TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote:LUGMOS wrote:TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote:They usually attract my attention because typically when I ignore vehicles the blueberries feed them corpses. If I didn't have to worry about being cloned out by Mcnobrain with 0/16 as their score I would just avoid vehicles. After all most are pretty easy to avoid and ignore, its just the hapless retards will lose the game for us if I don't get rid of them 9/10 times. So another who thinks it shouldn't be outright killing, but just a pain to infantry. OK! Nice! The isk economy is too ****** because CCP ignored district farming and locking for vehicles to be juggernaughts on the field at a high isk cost. It would ruin the game again as the head corps could just spam the best stupidly expensive vehicles to crush pubs because they have all dat moneh from a broken system that let beta players dominate and punished new players for not having stupid amounts of isk stockpiled. They work good now, the adv and proto fit ones just cost too much. They are far more then an annoyance as you put it. I used a tank earlier to completely turn the tables, if you are wise you can do a lot more to helping the team in a vehicle then on the ground. This isn't Eve. It has nothing outside of pvp, and a game that only favors the longest and richest will not have lasting appeal. Look at ******* APEX, this was CCP trying to milk money because they knew **** was unfair for newcomers. Why anyone would buy into such manipulation is beyond me, but such is the nature of fremiums selling power as a business model. Kids stealing credit cards from their parents make fremiums work. Soo... If tanks would have to make a conscious decision to kill or not to kill infantry, would you be satisfied? What if tanks could survive quite a while under fire, but couldn't really kill infantry? What I'm trying to get at is if people believe that I they should almost stay in their separate worlds, only intermingling if pushed to do so.
Oh no no no...... If you get hit by a tank shell.... you gonna die mate. You get caught in one to many AoE explosions you gonna die mate.
I already have a proposition in Feed back about altering the Blaster to better reflect Gallentean Heavy Battle Cannon.
Instead of wasting time with 205 round magazines and only being able to fire 48 rounds consecutively why not stream line it and let if fire plasma cannon rounds. People talk all the time about how Plasma Cannoning takes skill and how Large Blasters do not........well now the ******* do.
Direct Damage: 1092
Splash Damage: .25 of direct damage
Round Chambering: 6
Maximum Ammuntion Stored: 78
RoF: 60 RPM
Sustained DPS: 6552 (exactly the same as the current Ion Cannon...who'd have thunk it)
I said, "Empress, I do this, I thought that you knew this.
Can't stand non-believers and honest, the truth is...
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
15361
|
Posted - 2014.12.03 01:02:00 -
[4] - Quote
Crimson ShieId wrote:Quote:Is that Calypso guy the guy that always seems to have a small rail gunner? If so, yeah that guy ******* wrecks or at least that two man team. The large rail not such an issue but the guy on the small rail never seems to miss when I'm trying to forge him. It's a nightmare dealing with those two. Most of the time I've seen him, he's actually solo, he just swaps in between piloting and gunning, but yea, it is indeed a nightmare to try and take him out. One of the few I've come across that actually requires a two-three man team to down.
That's how I do it as well, Main Anti Tank Gun and switch on hardeners and to a Small Rails if infantry presents itself.
I said, "Empress, I do this, I thought that you knew this.
Can't stand non-believers and honest, the truth is...
|
True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
15361
|
Posted - 2014.12.03 01:04:00 -
[5] - Quote
LUGMOS wrote:Crimson ShieId wrote:LUGMOS wrote:So, the general idea is that it is too unfulfilling and boring, with lack of actual skill in input from the operator. It is more about slaying, as its focus has been shifted from having to do multiple things at once, tank battles are generally nonexistent and bland.
So, more food for thought:
What would be the best way to bring in more fun to tanking?
Is the power of AV scaring some tankers away from fielding tanks?
Is it the lack of profit to be made?
Is it the general lackluster in tank battle mechanics/modules?
Would bringing in more diversity in modules and vehicles solve some puzzles?
Should tank survivability versus AV be increased? Maybe just the Madrugar/Soma? I'd say bring the old modules and hulls back, swap things back to active modules but allow that more advanced style of gameplay to be more rewarding. For those who don't know what they're doing though, AV likely sends the less skilled fleeing to the forums to complain, but for the pilots who have it together, it's a joke. I was thinking passive reps forever was a good idea, but there should be an option for sort of like a rep booster, an active module that boosts the rep rate of a vehicle for some amount of time, having a cool down. This would encourage smart module activation and would reward smarter gameplay. The overall module system as has been pointed out before generally lacks what it used to have in diversity; you had different modules to choose from that made your tank different from others'.
EWWWWW please. Passive reps on Armour was the worst thing that was every done to HAV, and buffed pulsing Shield reps absolutely a big no no of shields where slow constant regen was acceptable.
Passive reps on armour are also too ******* easy and doesn't require any thought.
I said, "Empress, I do this, I thought that you knew this.
Can't stand non-believers and honest, the truth is...
|
True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
15367
|
Posted - 2014.12.03 02:19:00 -
[6] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:LUGMOS wrote:Crimson ShieId wrote:LUGMOS wrote:So, the general idea is that it is too unfulfilling and boring, with lack of actual skill in input from the operator. It is more about slaying, as its focus has been shifted from having to do multiple things at once, tank battles are generally nonexistent and bland.
So, more food for thought:
What would be the best way to bring in more fun to tanking?
Is the power of AV scaring some tankers away from fielding tanks?
Is it the lack of profit to be made?
Is it the general lackluster in tank battle mechanics/modules?
Would bringing in more diversity in modules and vehicles solve some puzzles?
Should tank survivability versus AV be increased? Maybe just the Madrugar/Soma? I'd say bring the old modules and hulls back, swap things back to active modules but allow that more advanced style of gameplay to be more rewarding. For those who don't know what they're doing though, AV likely sends the less skilled fleeing to the forums to complain, but for the pilots who have it together, it's a joke. I was thinking passive reps forever was a good idea, but there should be an option for sort of like a rep booster, an active module that boosts the rep rate of a vehicle for some amount of time, having a cool down. This would encourage smart module activation and would reward smarter gameplay. The overall module system as has been pointed out before generally lacks what it used to have in diversity; you had different modules to choose from that made your tank different from others'. We used to have that. On a Madrugar in the old days, the only module you didn't have to activate was an armor plate. I've juggled a rep, 3 hardeners, a scanner and a NOS. On a Gunnlogi, I used to juggle a booster and 3 hardeners. Active modules are certainly not new, and there's a lot of us that perfected module management/activation in order to survive as well as take out vehicles.
Hmmm you had a very odd build?
I remember my two armour fits being 2 hardeners and 1 repper or 2 reppers and one hardener.
Damage Control II and a Heat Sink II in the highs
I said, "Empress, I do this, I thought that you knew this.
Can't stand non-believers and honest, the truth is...
|
True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
15367
|
Posted - 2014.12.03 02:26:00 -
[7] - Quote
TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:Henrietta Unknown wrote:Summa Militum wrote:The only vehicles that **** me off are the dropships that can shoot you from head-on (not the ones that have turrets on the side of the drop ship, I am talking about the one with the turret in the front of the dropship facing forward) . I can be taking on a group of people single-handedly and kicking some serious ass and then the next thing I know the ground around me is being blown to hell and I die.
I give props to the guy in the dropship who just saved his team but at the same time that guy can go **** himself. It's called an Assault Drop Ship, and it's very expensive - some 200K ISK. That's not at all expensive. My current Gunnlogi missile fit is 455k ISK, which is 1/3 the price my PC-quality fit used to cost. In all fairness, currently a 200kish ADS will get swatted out of the sky in 2-3 swarm volleys aka a single load aka one person can shoot those things out of the sky. The good ADS cost far more. HAVs are only really more expensive than an ADS when you use 2 proto small turrets on the HAV. Because, turrets in general are ridiculously over priced.
Pfff not even.
I loved it when Prototype turrets cost 981,000 ISK!
I said, "Empress, I do this, I thought that you knew this.
Can't stand non-believers and honest, the truth is...
|
True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
15367
|
Posted - 2014.12.03 02:26:00 -
[8] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:Henrietta Unknown wrote:Summa Militum wrote:The only vehicles that **** me off are the dropships that can shoot you from head-on (not the ones that have turrets on the side of the drop ship, I am talking about the one with the turret in the front of the dropship facing forward) . I can be taking on a group of people single-handedly and kicking some serious ass and then the next thing I know the ground around me is being blown to hell and I die.
I give props to the guy in the dropship who just saved his team but at the same time that guy can go **** himself. It's called an Assault Drop Ship, and it's very expensive - some 200K ISK. That's not at all expensive. My current Gunnlogi missile fit is 455k ISK, which is 1/3 the price my PC-quality fit used to cost.
No tanks cost 1.5 Million ISK Spkr
I said, "Empress, I do this, I thought that you knew this.
Can't stand non-believers and honest, the truth is...
|
True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
15367
|
Posted - 2014.12.03 02:35:00 -
[9] - Quote
TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote:Mossellia Delt wrote:What annoys me is tanks not setting off my proxies, not taking damage from my forge gun and having my av nades bounce off of tanks. What annoys me tanking is my gun constantly resetting to the middle of the screen every 2 seconds. proxies really should go off instantly... I mean they freakin' beep warning people LAVs and injector tanks shouldnt be able to drive over them no matter how fast they are going...
They do though. They just don't always kill the HAV.
I said, "Empress, I do this, I thought that you knew this.
Can't stand non-believers and honest, the truth is...
|
True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
15382
|
Posted - 2014.12.03 07:35:00 -
[10] - Quote
Imp Smash wrote:Vehicles annoy me because they are hard to balance. Either they are super weak and die to every little AV, or they are stupid strong tank swarm/forge after swarm/forge and wipe the battlefield. Where is the trifecta of balance?
Well think about this. You know the Gunnlogi everyone talks about crushing easily right? Surely you have your fair share of Gunlogi kills?
Imagine that..... with the same total EHP.....but 40% easier to kill.....
I said, "Empress, I do this, I thought that you knew this.
Can't stand non-believers and honest, the truth is...
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