DUST Search - [Question] Why haven't ISK payouts been buffed in Pubs?

Ryme Intrinseca wrote:

KA24DERT wrote:

Ryme Intrinseca wrote:

ISK payouts should be more proportional to contribution. 30-10 and top of the board in advanced should generally break even. I don't know if we necessarily need to increase the size of the 'pie' so much as slice it differently (e.g. no payout for AFKers and others that don't leave the redline, give their ISK to high WP players instead).

My issue is that "breaking even" isn't good enough.

I don't know what the pot looks like for pubs, but yes, I agree with the idea that top Logis and Slayers should come away with the lion's share.

Perhaps there could also be increased ISK rewards for time spent near an objective.

Anything to put ISK into the wallets of the competitive player.

I would guess that in an average game the pot for the winners is something like:

350k
300
280
270
250
230
220
210
200
190
180
170
160
130 (AFK)
130 (AFK)
130 (AFK)

In that example there is 3.40mil ISK to be distributed, which seems enough to me. The problem is that some of it is getting eaten up by AFKers and other people who are barely playing. If you took the 390k away from the AFKers and distributed it among the top three players, their payouts would be more like 400-500k, which seems more reasonable.

PS - In 1.10 there will be +25% WP (and therefore extra ISK) for actions within 50m of objectives, which is a step in the right direction.

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KA24DERT TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 870	Posted - 2014.12.02 10:59:00 - [1] - Quote There's been enough threads already asking for higher payouts, and it makes sense. If you actually play to win in a pub match, it's hard to make a living. Die 10 times in an Advanced suit and you're in the red, even if you get 30 kills and top war points. I can't imagine what the newberries are going through. So, why hasn't CCP buffed payouts yet? This is easily fixed, as was made apparent during the last emergency hotfix to reduce payouts. Is this just a ploy to sell more BPOs and AUR gear? BAN ADVANCED GEAR FROM PUBS \| Mass Driver Advocate
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 17930	Posted - 2014.12.02 11:27:00 - [2] - Quote Direct isk payouts is something that is a question that needs to be answered carefully. For example we don't want people permanently running prototypes. CPM 1 Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior \\= Prototype Forge Gun=// Unlocked
Stevez Wingyip Krullefor Organization Minmatar Republic 13	Posted - 2014.12.02 11:30:00 - [3] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Direct isk payouts is something that is a question that needs to be answered carefully. For example we don't want people permanently running prototypes. This. I am sick of trying to get my friends into this game to have them get proto stomped after the battle academy and they never want to play again. There needs to be a MUCH longer battle academy so new players can get the SP they need to get the most basic HP skills.
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 2233	Posted - 2014.12.02 11:32:00 - [4] - Quote KA24DERT wrote: There's been enough threads already asking for higher payouts, and it makes sense. If you actually play to win in a pub match, it's hard to make a living. Die 10 times in an Advanced suit and you're in the red, even if you get 30 kills and top war points. I can't imagine what the newberries are going through. So, why hasn't CCP buffed payouts yet? This is easily fixed, as was made apparent during the last emergency hotfix to reduce payouts. Is this just a ploy to sell more BPOs and AUR gear? well lower end of the spectrum seem to be worse but higher end if you actually get like 1500wp+ you get a decent payout.. and for 2500+ its like 400k+ #[[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 2 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]]
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency 6262	Posted - 2014.12.02 11:34:00 - [5] - Quote It doesn't need to be changed. It has worked fine for more than two years. Why should we change a system that is not broken? Put your flags up in the sky. And wave them side to side. Show the world where you're from. Show the world we are one.
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency 6262	Posted - 2014.12.02 11:36:00 - [6] - Quote Stevez Wingyip wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Direct isk payouts is something that is a question that needs to be answered carefully. For example we don't want people permanently running prototypes. This. I am sick of trying to get my friends into this game to have them get proto stomped after the battle academy and they never want to play again. There needs to be a MUCH longer battle academy so new players can get the SP they need to get the most basic HP skills. I believe that video tutorials. Are the answer. Put your flags up in the sky. And wave them side to side. Show the world where you're from. Show the world we are one.
KA24DERT TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 871	Posted - 2014.12.02 22:45:00 - [7] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Direct isk payouts is something that is a question that needs to be answered carefully. For example we don't want people permanently running prototypes. That's silly. What happens when we get PvE? People will be grinding for their ISK in efficient organized raids, and then hit the pubs with all their prototype gear and officer/pirate drops. Saying "we don't want people running proto in pubs" is the same as saying "we don't want people having ISK". BAN ADVANCED GEAR FROM PUBS \| Mass Driver Advocate
hfderrtgvcd 1417	Posted - 2014.12.02 22:51:00 - [8] - Quote Battle rewards are on the roadmap You can't fight in here! This is the war room.
Moorian Flav 277	Posted - 2014.12.02 22:53:00 - [9] - Quote I like it the way it is. There is already an abundance of ISK out there due to PC being previously exploited. Besides, if you are running out of ISK, use basic/militia/BPO stuff a while to build back up your ISK bank like everyone else. If anything, CCP should be running special events and tournaments with huge ISK payouts for those willing to participate and take the time to fulfill the specified tasks. I don't troll; I tell the truth. I'm also known as "The ANTI-Propaganda Machine".
Atiim Titans of Phoenix 14080	Posted - 2014.12.02 22:53:00 - [10] - Quote KA24DERT wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Direct isk payouts is something that is a question that needs to be answered carefully. For example we don't want people permanently running prototypes. That's silly. What happens when we get PvE? People will be grinding for their ISK in efficient organized raids, and then hit the pubs with all their prototype gear and officer/pirate drops. Saying "we don't want people running proto in pubs" is the same as saying "we don't want people having ISK". He didn't say that they don't want people running PRO in PUBs, he simply said that he doesn't want people who only play PUBs to be able to run PRO gear 24/7. Which makes sense as you aren't engaging in anything of high-risk or long term importance. Not to mention that it would make ISK meaningless as everyone would have a theoretically infinite supply. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND

Sylwester Dziewiecki Interregnum. 451	Posted - 2014.12.02 23:04:00 - [11] - Quote Stevez Wingyip wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Direct isk payouts is something that is a question that needs to be answered carefully. For example we don't want people permanently running prototypes. This. I am sick of trying to get my friends into this game to have them get proto stomped after the battle academy and they never want to play again. There needs to be a MUCH longer battle academy so new players can get the SP they need to get the most basic HP skills. Problem with "proto stomped" is not that they running proto suits itself but that they stack tons of HP and are like a little tanks for someone that have just basic HP. KA24DERT wrote: There's been enough threads already asking for higher payouts, and it makes sense. If you actually play to win in a pub match, it's hard to make a living. Die 10 times in an Advanced suit and you're in the red, even if you get 30 kills and top war points. I can't imagine what the newberries are going through. So, why hasn't CCP buffed payouts yet? This is easily fixed, as was made apparent during the last emergency hotfix to reduce payouts. Is this just a ploy to sell more BPOs and AUR gear? You don't have to die that often, try not to break your team front-line and when you drop you may be pickup by Logibro, just try to do it behind some cover - it is easier then to rescue someone.. Gallente Speed Scout. EVE side of me: Nosum Hseebnrido
KA24DERT TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 871	Posted - 2014.12.02 23:21:00 - [12] - Quote Atiim wrote: KA24DERT wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Direct isk payouts is something that is a question that needs to be answered carefully. For example we don't want people permanently running prototypes. That's silly. What happens when we get PvE? People will be grinding for their ISK in efficient organized raids, and then hit the pubs with all their prototype gear and officer/pirate drops. Saying "we don't want people running proto in pubs" is the same as saying "we don't want people having ISK". He didn't say that they don't want people running PRO in PUBs, he simply said that he doesn't want people who only play PUBs to be able to run PRO gear 24/7. Which makes sense as you aren't engaging in anything of high-risk or long term importance. Not to mention that it would make ISK meaningless as everyone would have a theoretically infinite supply. Infinite ISK isn't a problem, it's what this game is based on. Pub contract payouts generate ISK out of thin air, and BPOs let you run infinite amounts of free gear. Now, in regards to pubs being a non "high-risk" activity, that's the self-fulfilling prophecy i'm talking about. It isn't high-risk because risk is not incentivized. The payouts aren't much better if you win than if you lose, and the payouts aren't much better if you're at the top or the bottom of the leaderboard. A decent ADV fit costs about 40-50k, die 10 times hacking/protecting a point and you're barely breaking even if you win, nevermind if you lose. BAN ADVANCED GEAR FROM PUBS \| Mass Driver Advocate
Meeko Fent Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State 2174	Posted - 2014.12.02 23:43:00 - [13] - Quote KA24DERT wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Direct isk payouts is something that is a question that needs to be answered carefully. For example we don't want people permanently running prototypes. That's silly. What happens when we get PvE? People will be grinding for their ISK in efficient organized raids, and then hit the pubs with all their prototype gear and officer/pirate drops. Saying "we don't want people running proto in pubs" is the same as saying "we don't want people having ISK". And people will die in PVE. And that will "put money in the pot", reducing the money the players get per match to a reasonable profit. Increasing the profit from pubs, which already provides a fine profit if you play well, or w/ cheap suits, will increase the abundance of ISK, making it easier to afford protostomp 24:7 I Live for Tears
Zatara Rought Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4935	Posted - 2014.12.03 00:05:00 - [14] - Quote KA24DERT wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Direct isk payouts is something that is a question that needs to be answered carefully. For example we don't want people permanently running prototypes. That's silly. What happens when we get PvE? People will be grinding for their ISK in efficient organized raids, and then hit the pubs with all their prototype gear and officer/pirate drops. Saying "we don't want people running proto in pubs" is the same as saying "we don't want people having ISK". Founder & CEO Fatal Absolution Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought Strive. No mattter what
Ryme Intrinseca Dead Man's Game RUST415 2159	Posted - 2014.12.03 08:07:00 - [15] - Quote ISK payouts should be more proportional to contribution. 30-10 and top of the board in advanced should generally break even. I don't know if we necessarily need to increase the size of the 'pie' so much as slice it differently (e.g. no payout for AFKers and others that don't leave the redline, give their ISK to high WP players instead).
Her Chosen Grade No.2 90	Posted - 2014.12.03 09:11:00 - [16] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Direct isk payouts is something that is a question that needs to be answered carefully. For example we don't want people permanently running prototypes. Why not? It's not the player's fault that CCP throws new players to slaughter because of a laughable NPE. Public contracts are low risk, high reward. AFKing can net more ISK because of the zero liability it has. Stop punishing players for playing hard.
KA24DERT TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 874	Posted - 2014.12.03 10:23:00 - [17] - Quote Ryme Intrinseca wrote: ISK payouts should be more proportional to contribution. 30-10 and top of the board in advanced should generally break even. I don't know if we necessarily need to increase the size of the 'pie' so much as slice it differently (e.g. no payout for AFKers and others that don't leave the redline, give their ISK to high WP players instead). My issue is that "breaking even" isn't good enough. I don't know what the pot looks like for pubs, but yes, I agree with the idea that top Logis and Slayers should come away with the lion's share. Perhaps there could also be increased ISK rewards for time spent near an objective. Anything to put ISK into the wallets of the competitive player. BAN ADVANCED GEAR FROM PUBS \| Mass Driver Advocate
jade gamester B.A.L.A.M.O.R.Y. G.L.O.R.Y. 43	Posted - 2014.12.03 12:40:00 - [18] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Direct isk payouts is something that is a question that needs to be answered carefully. For example we don't want people permanently running prototypes. Haven't we gone past that? I mean with past isk exploits people in certain corps will run proto till the end, I do get enjoyment with you reduce a proto to basic as he keeps losing the proto suit but I have been in games where people will happily burn 5mil isk and not flinch? Maybe an isk wipe :D King of contradiction all hail kingthunderbolt o7
Raptor Princess ALLOTEC INC 98	Posted - 2014.12.03 12:53:00 - [19] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: KA24DERT wrote: There's been enough threads already asking for higher payouts, and it makes sense. If you actually play to win in a pub match, it's hard to make a living. Die 10 times in an Advanced suit and you're in the red, even if you get 30 kills and top war points. I can't imagine what the newberries are going through. So, why hasn't CCP buffed payouts yet? This is easily fixed, as was made apparent during the last emergency hotfix to reduce payouts. Is this just a ploy to sell more BPOs and AUR gear? well lower end of the spectrum seem to be worse but higher end if you actually get like 1500wp+ you get a decent payout.. and for 2500+ its like 400k+ Since the fix to payouts after 1.9 dropped, I've never got more than about 300k ISK. Top of the leaderboard with 2975wp last week gave me under 300k ISK (I think it was 280k). Someone told me that the more BPOs played, the lower the payout.
Everything Dies Santa is coming...FOR BLOOD 1093	Posted - 2014.12.03 13:28:00 - [20] - Quote Raptor Princess wrote: Someone told me that the more BPOs played, the lower the payout. That could definitely be an issue if the "cost" of gear lost in battle plays a big role in determining payouts. My suggestion --instead of a flat increase to payouts-- would be to increase the amount of salvage from each battle. A player should expect to come away with at least 9 items of basic gear and 3 advanced, with the occasional proto item dropping as well. On its own the non-proto gear wouldn't be worth much, but it would allow players to stockpile some weapons/modules/etc. that they otherwise wouldn't have tried out. Mike Patton is the greatest singer in music. Proof

Ryme Intrinseca Dead Man's Game RUST415 2163	Posted - 2014.12.03 13:43:00 - [21] - Quote KA24DERT wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: ISK payouts should be more proportional to contribution. 30-10 and top of the board in advanced should generally break even. I don't know if we necessarily need to increase the size of the 'pie' so much as slice it differently (e.g. no payout for AFKers and others that don't leave the redline, give their ISK to high WP players instead). My issue is that "breaking even" isn't good enough. I don't know what the pot looks like for pubs, but yes, I agree with the idea that top Logis and Slayers should come away with the lion's share. Perhaps there could also be increased ISK rewards for time spent near an objective. Anything to put ISK into the wallets of the competitive player. I would guess that in an average game the pot for the winners is something like: 350k 300 280 270 250 230 220 210 200 190 180 170 160 130 (AFK) 130 (AFK) 130 (AFK) In that example there is 3.40mil ISK to be distributed, which seems enough to me. The problem is that some of it is getting eaten up by AFKers and other people who are barely playing. If you took the 390k away from the AFKers and distributed it among the top three players, their payouts would be more like 400-500k, which seems more reasonable. PS - In 1.10 there will be +25% WP (and therefore extra ISK) for actions within 50m of objectives, which is a step in the right direction.
Ryme Intrinseca Dead Man's Game RUST415 2163	Posted - 2014.12.03 13:45:00 - [22] - Quote Everything Dies wrote: Raptor Princess wrote: Someone told me that the more BPOs played, the lower the payout. That could definitely be an issue if the "cost" of gear lost in battle plays a big role in determining payouts. It is a major influence on the overall payout.
Ryme Intrinseca Dead Man's Game RUST415 2163	Posted - 2014.12.03 13:50:00 - [23] - Quote jade gamester wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Direct isk payouts is something that is a question that needs to be answered carefully. For example we don't want people permanently running prototypes. Haven't we gone past that? I mean with past isk exploits... Still plenty of ISK exploits, e.g. people who leave their PS3 on when they go to work so they can farm ISK and SP via AFK macros. That's why, on the maps where the ground spawn is outside the redline, you see people repeatedly spawn into the line of fire.
Raptor Princess ALLOTEC INC 98	Posted - 2014.12.03 14:04:00 - [24] - Quote Ryme Intrinseca wrote: KA24DERT wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: ISK payouts should be more proportional to contribution. 30-10 and top of the board in advanced should generally break even. I don't know if we necessarily need to increase the size of the 'pie' so much as slice it differently (e.g. no payout for AFKers and others that don't leave the redline, give their ISK to high WP players instead). My issue is that "breaking even" isn't good enough. I don't know what the pot looks like for pubs, but yes, I agree with the idea that top Logis and Slayers should come away with the lion's share. Perhaps there could also be increased ISK rewards for time spent near an objective. Anything to put ISK into the wallets of the competitive player. I would guess that in an average game the pot for the winners is something like: 350k 300 280 270 250 230 220 210 200 190 180 170 160 130 (AFK) 130 (AFK) 130 (AFK) In that example there is 3.40mil ISK to be distributed, which seems enough to me. The problem is that some of it is getting eaten up by AFKers and other people who are barely playing. If you took the 390k away from the AFKers and distributed it among the top three players, their payouts would be more like 400-500k, which seems more reasonable. PS - In 1.10 there will be +25% WP (and therefore extra ISK) for actions within 50m of objectives, which is a step in the right direction. I'm regularly top 3 and rarely get 300k. 280k is what I expect when I make 1k more WP than the person in second. And I've frequently gotten less than 100k in 11th before (with 5-0 and about 450-500wp)
Mobius Wyvern Sky-FIRE 5480	Posted - 2014.12.03 15:28:00 - [25] - Quote KA24DERT wrote: There's been enough threads already asking for higher payouts, and it makes sense. If you actually play to win in a pub match, it's hard to make a living. Die 10 times in an Advanced suit and you're in the red, even if you get 30 kills and top war points. I can't imagine what the newberries are going through. So, why hasn't CCP buffed payouts yet? This is easily fixed, as was made apparent during the last emergency hotfix to reduce payouts. Is this just a ploy to sell more BPOs and AUR gear? Run Minmatar Logi. Have everyone love you and get 5000+ WP in a match. Shayz shows how it's done. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
KA24DERT TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 875	Posted - 2014.12.04 22:15:00 - [26] - Quote ITT: People who want everyone to be poor because ISK is bad. BAN ADVANCED GEAR FROM PUBS \| Mass Driver Advocate
Michael Epic Bragian Order Amarr Empire 348	Posted - 2014.12.04 22:18:00 - [27] - Quote Stevez Wingyip wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Direct isk payouts is something that is a question that needs to be answered carefully. For example we don't want people permanently running prototypes. This. I am sick of trying to get my friends into this game to have them get proto stomped after the battle academy and they never want to play again. There needs to be a MUCH longer battle academy so new players can get the SP they need to get the most basic HP skills. There needs to be a standard gear mode where we can play when we're pissed off to blow off some steam or for the new players to get used to the maps and try out tactics.
Eruditus 920 Nemo Malus Felix 944	Posted - 2014.12.04 22:52:00 - [28] - Quote Michael Epic wrote: Stevez Wingyip wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Direct isk payouts is something that is a question that needs to be answered carefully. For example we don't want people permanently running prototypes. This. I am sick of trying to get my friends into this game to have them get proto stomped after the battle academy and they never want to play again. There needs to be a MUCH longer battle academy so new players can get the SP they need to get the most basic HP skills. There needs to be a standard gear mode where we can play when we're pissed off to blow off some steam or for the new players to get used to the maps and try out tactics. Suggestions such as this have been thrown around for as long as I've been here and the argument against it has always been the player count is too low to dilute it even further by adding additional modes. But I think we would grow the player count by retaining more players with a mode in between academy and anything goes pubs. FW is play to win. Pubs are play for WP since there is no material reward for winning. That is the sad truth. "Stay gold, Ponyboy..."
KA24DERT TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 877	Posted - 2014.12.04 23:02:00 - [29] - Quote Michael Epic wrote: Stevez Wingyip wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Direct isk payouts is something that is a question that needs to be answered carefully. For example we don't want people permanently running prototypes. This. I am sick of trying to get my friends into this game to have them get proto stomped after the battle academy and they never want to play again. There needs to be a MUCH longer battle academy so new players can get the SP they need to get the most basic HP skills. There needs to be a standard gear mode where we can play when we're pissed off to blow off some steam or for the new players to get used to the maps and try out tactics. No, there doesn't. What's to stop bored "PROTO" stompers from "STD" stomping? The longer battle academy is the right solution for that. But also, all that BS is off topic. This thread is for addressing the pitiful PUB payouts that put this game on the verge of Pay2Win, or more aptly, pay to play. BAN ADVANCED GEAR FROM PUBS \| Mass Driver Advocate
Eruditus 920 Nemo Malus Felix 944	Posted - 2014.12.04 23:22:00 - [30] - Quote KA24DERT wrote: Michael Epic wrote: Stevez Wingyip wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Direct isk payouts is something that is a question that needs to be answered carefully. For example we don't want people permanently running prototypes. This. I am sick of trying to get my friends into this game to have them get proto stomped after the battle academy and they never want to play again. There needs to be a MUCH longer battle academy so new players can get the SP they need to get the most basic HP skills. There needs to be a standard gear mode where we can play when we're pissed off to blow off some steam or for the new players to get used to the maps and try out tactics. No, there doesn't. What's to stop bored "PROTO" stompers from "STD" stomping? The longer battle academy is the right solution for that. But also, all that BS is off topic. This thread is for addressing the pitiful PUB payouts that put this game on the verge of Pay2Win, or more aptly, pay to play. So your against a standard mode for fear of stomping. But larger ISK payouts makes it easier for players to run proto for stomping. I'm afraid I don't follow your inconsistent logic. "Stay gold, Ponyboy..."



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