sadly soraya your having to fight CCPs rep here, history points to the fact that CCP are awful at making new games... i think the community can safely assume legion is not happening for a long time (years) because if it was impending we would be seeing something by now.

with valk also coming up (if that ever comes out itself) its a smart assumption that required resources are focused their.

i dont really have much faith in the company not to cashcow dust until the ps3 install base moves along. and then close the game down and just focus on EvE again with Valk being a one development due to novel tech making it an easy sell.

the community has nothing to base any good faith on from CCP or CPMs until that changes i cant see legion communty not being hostile to being told everything fine and working well. that has just simply never been the case with anything CCP has ever made.

....i dont really have a point here other than your posts always come across as the community not being reasonable which in some cases probably fair but in this one... in regards to CCP developments and are we ever actually ever going to see any kind of progress outside of talk... all evidence points to it will be talk for years... dont wait around

ZDub when have the CPM been anything else. they are focus group nothing more luckily this CPM cycle i feel safe enough that they get shooters at least...unlike the last CPM guys who where just EvE players :\

frankly the CPM are PR method of us giving them greif than us giving CCP hassle, i hardly doubt the CPM have any meaningful impact that could not be sourced by just straight up asking on the forums which is what rattia does and seems to be getting better results, lets be honest the CPM are a distraction group designed to make us feel like we are engaged in the process.

I assume that DUST will continue to evolve while the playerbase is around/paying for it. What CCP need to do in my opinion is let us know that Legion is being developed in parallel and will take over once DUSt has reached its logical conclusion and can be developed no further.

But until we hear it from CCP wtf is going on over there? Cus what we heard last year was we are moving development to PC hoorah!! Even as someone who is primarily a PC gamer it was a touch confusing why they would do it.... having just started creating a community of console players.

I think you misunderstand the CPM. They are supposed to be our voice to CCP, not the other way around. However, about 90% of Soraya's posts are defending CCP and why they aren't talking. He's not supposed to be a CCP apologist, it just gives the impression that the CPM are Shanghai's community rep team and little else. Its a poor focus of effort and it's a bad culture to be developing in a group like the CPM, I'm calling it where I see it.

i hardly doubt the CPM have any meaningful impact that could not be sourced by just straight up asking on the forums which is what rattia does and seems to be getting better results

Don't even get me started on this bullshit. The difference between the CPM in EVE and the CPM in Dust is pretty damn stark. We have had every indication so far that CCP Shanghai barely even listens to you all, and they clearly have you so bound up in NDAs that every time you try and say anything you just get labeled as apologists or ignored because you can't back up any of your statements.

Why is the damn "Marketing Firewall" so thick?! You realize other developers are letting people see the earliest and most broken bits of their games and it's actually getting them more support? More players coming on board?

We have more transparency with the EVE development team than ever before, and the Dust development team can't even be bothered to produce DevBlogs about anything other than developer profiles.

The CPM are incredibly powerful when implemented correctly. However, because we don't have anything like the CSM Minutes that Eve Online has (basically a giant transcript of the conversations that the CSM and CCP have during their bi-yearly meetings) we can't even provide civilian oversight of our elected representatives, something that I was going to press hard for had I been elected because it ties in with that whole "Community First" approach I had going on but c'est la vie.

The problem with the current CPM, I find, is that they - from an outsider's view - appear to have issue prioritizing things that will benefit us in the long run. I personally think that the current CPM, as well as CCP, are playing checkers when they should be playing chess. In essence, they're clouded by the tunnel vision of the now rather than focusing on the things that are going to matter later. This is an amateur's theory, mind you, as I know just as much as the next guy in the community.

But, consider the fact that we have yet to have any sort of drive for further community interaction by the CPM (third-party dev support, volunteer programs, etc). Apart from white-tagged (CPM made) consolidated threads asking for specialized feedback, there isn't much in the way of actually -INVOLVING- the community. This could either be because the correct questions aren't being asked by the CPM, CCP is stonewalling, or it legitimately cannot be done at current and we're simply not being informed of such. The latter is equally as dangerous as without being informed of such we continue to provide feedback on something that just isn't going to happen in the near future.

My biggest fear is that the current CPM simply aren't asking the hard questions and that they are only focused on the now. Worse yet, I fear that that is all CCP is allowing them to be. We'll never really know because it's all behind the curtains and there is yet to be a single person that's broken that mold.

Third-party dev support is basically entirely reliant on CREST. You might've noticed there's been a lot of work done on it by CCP FoxFour in the last few months, but it's still very far from what either EVE or DUST needs. And yes, I do ask you to bear in mind, not to assume any additional success you would make if you were in our shoes, because you aren't. And in some cases, you wouldn't. Also, please bear in mind that I do support these objectives, and ask about things like the ISD when possible.

As you say, unfortunately, there's no way for us to show you. As for the subtle hint that someone should break the NDA, I am doubtful you'll find any takers there. Both because nobody wants the legal trouble, and because we care about the community, and we're aware that breaking the NDA would do severe harm to the CPM's ability to interact with CCP on the level that we do, and deliver player feedback in such a direct manner.

Sorya im sure you are doing what you can. I actually have no problem with you as a cpm as at least you fecking talk to us =ƒÿå.

However the wall of NDA will constantly undermine anything you say. We simple have no proof what you are saying is happening it's all just words. Their is simply noway for anyone to know what cpm doing and achieving.

The idea of NDAs is antiquated EVE comp are both projects that hugely by their nature everyone knows what's happening and what's being developed and both those games have very strong core fanbase.

NDAs only came about when video games where in their infancy and everyone was worried someone else would steal their idea. They are simply not needed anymore... unless your building junk games that don't work...


i forgot what the original topic was a while back.....cpm need to show us what their actually doing...its all talk from some guy with tag at the moment

NDA's are still widely used in the industry.
They're everywhere, literally everywhere.

However the wall of NDA will constantly undermine anything you say. We simple have no proof what you are saying is happening it's all just words. Their is simply noway for anyone to know what cpm doing and achieving.

Should we submit ideas that are low-hanging fruit, like small balancing tweaks, or are we completely open to the realm of fantasy and submit ideas like a legitimate Commander suit/role or Minmatar/Amarr vehicles? Even still, I wonder if it even matters as, again, there is no acknowledgement or responses given to either. How do we know that CCP has read them? How do we know that they're even plausible? What kind of game is CCP trying to make and what is the best feedback to give them to help them achieve that goal?

Are the CPM asking -those- kinds of questions or are they resigned to just talking about what's in the next update?

There's a lot of things that they discuss with us that most certainly belong under the bounds of an NDA. Unfortunately, it's impossible to explain what those are without also breaking it. :/ What I can tell you is I do my best to be completely honest, and not mislead in any way.



Answer is both. Bearing in mind that small low-hanging fruit can probably be added into releases already on the roadmap, whereas larger things would likely end up on a backlog for a future release, as they may take more resources than we have to devote to a side feature. Minmatar/Amarr vehicles, mind you, have already been discussed as possibly starting out as recolors of our existing vehicles so we can get them out with hotfix-level effort.

The way it's intended to show you the Trello is being read is for Rattati's own Trello to be publicly visible, so people can see when issues or suggestions hit his personal radar. I know he said he was working on cleaning that up a bit so it was presentable, I will follow up with him on where progress is on that this week.



We ask a LOT of questions, both short-term and long-term. We've been scheduling meetings with CCP Rouge periodically to talk about the long-term future. Our meetings with CCP Rattati tend to be more of a short-term focus, though short-term may be even a few updates out in that context.

So, the problem is, you can't see us passing on your voice to CCP. Because it's behind closed doors. In blunt honesty, you have no ability to judge my job competency. (That's problematic in itself, which is a valid complaint. But criticism of my posts as somehow not doing my job are not.) Because my job is not to post publicly. What information I do my best to convey by correcting misinformation and such is extra.

When you're too strung up in your own assumption of right that you miss broadside clues as to where things are, because you'd rather see me as spinning some marketing line as opposed to conveying my honest opinion as closely as I can within the confines of my limitations, it just says something about you.

The NDA has now mostly been for all the important parts removed from the Game Development of Dust 514 mostly; when you guys find out about something its only about on average a week after cpm finds out about it.

What will NOT change is how the NDA covers the internal affairs of CCP and its Business; most of it doesn't need to be known but there are issues that CPM has identified as critical for public knowledge and we keep pressuring CCP to get it out.

could you at least say your meeting CCP just knowing meeting are happening would be better than nothing. hell even a discussing activity under NDA or game balance or something.

But no, you gotta be all "trolly" because its fun and that's who you are. Well be aware that people read what you post.

It's been a year, Soraya. You mean that in a year there hasn't been any measurable progress on Legion? If so, that's ******* terrifying. If so, we'll have an alpha sometime in Q4 2019.