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Aeon Amadi
Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance
7360
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Posted - 2014.11.27 09:38:00 -
[1] - Quote
CCP Frame wrote:Hey guys,
We are not planning to make any announcements about or show anything new for DUST 514 or Project Legion at Fanfest, but CCP Rattati and CCP Rouge will be on hand to talk to attendees and participate in all the usual activities with everyone such as pub crawls and roundtables.
I'm willing to wager $10 that CCP Shanghai is working on another project (not Legion) at this point.
Long-Term Roadmap
Nothing to show for Legion
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Aeon Amadi
Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance
7360
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Posted - 2014.11.27 09:47:00 -
[2] - Quote
Aoena Rays wrote:And this is general discussion about DUST 514 how?
Wow, do I really need to explain this..?
Okay, so if the development studio that's working on Dust 514 and Project Legion is working on another project.... then that means that they're not working on either of those things anymore. Which means all the revenue (money, if you didn't know) you're dumping into the game is being spent on something that has absolutely nothing to do with it's (Dust's) longevity.
On the train now? Kthnx.
Lot of the community left after the Legion announcement because it basically meant they were abandoning Dust 514. And other then the work Rattati/Logibro and the gang have been shelling out, they pretty much have. Imagine if they came out and said they were working on something else instead..? Get it now?
Long-Term Roadmap
Nothing to show for Legion
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Aeon Amadi
Chimera Core
7651
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Posted - 2015.01.02 07:58:00 -
[3] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Mobius, I feel the people working on DUST have a long-term commitment to their players. I think we're all very well aware that the PS3 platform has a limited lifespan, but obviously CCP is not ready to announce anything more in that department at this time.
CCP doesn't seem to be ready to announce anything at any time. Part of the reason for discontent within the community is because of the silence game they keep playing, something we expected would change after Fanfest because the big surprise was out. It doesn't seem like anything was learned from the mistakes at Fanfest.
Aeon's Links
In an effort to be "positive" I will agree to everything CCP does.
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Aeon Amadi
Chimera Core
7655
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Posted - 2015.01.02 23:35:00 -
[4] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Just because there is nothing that can be announced doesn't mean it's not "measurable progress".
We have no doubt that they've made great strides but you can't say that they're not playing the Silent Game and then say that they just don't have anything they're ready to show. That's contradictory. The community should be involved as early as possible and it has shown time and time and time again that the earlier we are involved, the better off it'll be. CCP Rattati himself has shown that this has amazing results as we can often weigh in with community crowdsourced feedback.
Do -NOT- let Legion be another "retrospect and hindsight" tragedy.. There are no more excuses for why this should happen.
Aeon's Links
In an effort to be "positive" I will agree to everything CCP does.
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Aeon Amadi
Chimera Core
7655
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Posted - 2015.01.03 06:04:00 -
[5] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Aeon, it's not really possible for me to explain further within the limits of the NDA. Would if I could. :/
Thanks, DaReaper. I try and say as much as I can get away with. ;)
That's fine. It's not your job to tell us, it's your job to represent us and the questions we are asking. It's the developers' job to answer and explain further.
Aeon's Links
In an effort to be "positive" I will agree to everything CCP does.
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Aeon Amadi
Chimera Core
7660
|
Posted - 2015.01.03 22:01:00 -
[6] - Quote
steadyhand amarr wrote:ZDub when have the CPM been anything else. they are focus group nothing more luckily this CPM cycle i feel safe enough that they get shooters at least...unlike the last CPM guys who where just EvE players :\
frankly the CPM are PR method of us giving them greif than us giving CCP hassle, i hardly doubt the CPM have any meaningful impact that could not be sourced by just straight up asking on the forums which is what rattia does and seems to be getting better results, lets be honest the CPM are a distraction group designed to make us feel like we are engaged in the process.
The CPM are incredibly powerful when implemented correctly. However, because we don't have anything like the CSM Minutes that Eve Online has (basically a giant transcript of the conversations that the CSM and CCP have during their bi-yearly meetings) we can't even provide civilian oversight of our elected representatives, something that I was going to press hard for had I been elected because it ties in with that whole "Community First" approach I had going on but c'est la vie.
The problem with the current CPM, I find, is that they - from an outsider's view - appear to have issue prioritizing things that will benefit us in the long run. I personally think that the current CPM, as well as CCP, are playing checkers when they should be playing chess. In essence, they're clouded by the tunnel vision of the now rather than focusing on the things that are going to matter later. This is an amateur's theory, mind you, as I know just as much as the next guy in the community.
But, consider the fact that we have yet to have any sort of drive for further community interaction by the CPM (third-party dev support, volunteer programs, etc). Apart from white-tagged (CPM made) consolidated threads asking for specialized feedback, there isn't much in the way of actually -INVOLVING- the community. This could either be because the correct questions aren't being asked by the CPM, CCP is stonewalling, or it legitimately cannot be done at current and we're simply not being informed of such. The latter is equally as dangerous as without being informed of such we continue to provide feedback on something that just isn't going to happen in the near future.
Then, you have to consider the age old question: What is Dust 514 supposed to be? Tactical, twitch? MMO, lobby? Grind-game or story-teller? It's the one question that has yet to ever be answered but they still tell the press that they love hearing our feedback and continuing dialogue. Incidentally... We give them feedback on our ideal of what the game should be because we have nothing to really go off of otherwise.
My biggest fear is that the current CPM simply aren't asking the hard questions and that they are only focused on the now. Worse yet, I fear that that is all CCP is allowing them to be. We'll never really know because it's all behind the curtains and there is yet to be a single person that's broken that mold.
EDIT: Just wanted to mention the seemingly failed Community Crowdsourcing Trello which seems to have been completely abandoned and is now controlled by self-appointed moderators as a good example of what I'm trying to illustrate.
Aeon's Links
In an effort to be "positive" I will agree to everything CCP does.
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Aeon Amadi
Chimera Core
7719
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Posted - 2015.01.04 16:35:00 -
[7] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:But, consider the fact that we have yet to have any sort of drive for further community interaction by the CPM (third-party dev support, volunteer programs, etc). Apart from white-tagged (CPM made) consolidated threads asking for specialized feedback, there isn't much in the way of actually -INVOLVING- the community. This could either be because the correct questions aren't being asked by the CPM, CCP is stonewalling, or it legitimately cannot be done at current and we're simply not being informed of such. The latter is equally as dangerous as without being informed of such we continue to provide feedback on something that just isn't going to happen in the near future. Third-party dev support is basically entirely reliant on CREST. You might've noticed there's been a lot of work done on it by CCP FoxFour in the last few months, but it's still very far from what either EVE or DUST needs. And yes, I do ask you to bear in mind, not to assume any additional success you would make if you were in our shoes, because you aren't. And in some cases, you wouldn't. Also, please bear in mind that I do support these objectives, and ask about things like the ISD when possible.
Lol.
I don't assume anything and I try not to insinuate that I would have done a better job at something I've never had the opportunity to attempt myself. But then again, it'd all be wrapped up in The Quiet Game anyway, so how could either of us know?
Soraya Xel wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:My biggest fear is that the current CPM simply aren't asking the hard questions and that they are only focused on the now. Worse yet, I fear that that is all CCP is allowing them to be. We'll never really know because it's all behind the curtains and there is yet to be a single person that's broken that mold. As you say, unfortunately, there's no way for us to show you. As for the subtle hint that someone should break the NDA, I am doubtful you'll find any takers there. Both because nobody wants the legal trouble, and because we care about the community, and we're aware that breaking the NDA would do severe harm to the CPM's ability to interact with CCP on the level that we do, and deliver player feedback in such a direct manner.
Wasn't a "hint", subtle or otherwise, to break the NDA. Make no mistake about that. Now, the CPM coming out and saying, "Yes, we've asked about this", isn't - or rather, shouldn't be - a breach of NDA. To my knowledge there's no where that we [the community] can go to see what the CPM or CCP has asked about, let alone read, besides the forums.
Having someway to know that we are being acknowledged is well within the capacity for CCP, something that they're pretty bad at and have a notoriety for being bad at, be it because of time management or what have you. It's also been something the community has asked for, repeatedly, since Closed Beta. We had some marked success with the 'weekly feedback updates"... which then became the bi-monthly updates... which then phased out of existence around Fanfest.
In it's stead we have the Community Crowdsourcing Trello which seemed like a really cool olive branch that just went to waste. It's just another mock-up of the 'Features and Ideas Discussion' forum category in the same way that the Jita Speaker's Corner was on the Eve forums. It also has the same problem that we've had since Fanfest: We dunno what to submit ideas/feedback for. Legion is completely in the dark and the extent of the Dust 514 development is nebulous.
Should we submit ideas that are low-hanging fruit, like small balancing tweaks, or are we completely open to the realm of fantasy and submit ideas like a legitimate Commander suit/role or Minmatar/Amarr vehicles? Even still, I wonder if it even matters as, again, there is no acknowledgement or responses given to either. How do we know that CCP has read them? How do we know that they're even plausible? What kind of game is CCP trying to make and what is the best feedback to give them to help them achieve that goal?
Are the CPM asking -those- kinds of questions or are they resigned to just talking about what's in the next update?
Are we even going to know whether or not those questions are being answered to begin with?
Aeon's Links
In an effort to be "positive" I will agree to everything CCP does.
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Aeon Amadi
Chimera Core
7719
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Posted - 2015.01.04 16:55:00 -
[8] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:steadyhand amarr wrote:Sorya im sure you are doing what you can. I actually have no problem with you as a cpm as at least you fecking talk to us =ƒÿå.
However the wall of NDA will constantly undermine anything you say. We simple have no proof what you are saying is happening it's all just words. Their is simply noway for anyone to know what cpm doing and achieving.
The idea of NDAs is antiquated EVE comp are both projects that hugely by their nature everyone knows what's happening and what's being developed and both those games have very strong core fanbase.
NDAs only came about when video games where in their infancy and everyone was worried someone else would steal their idea. They are simply not needed anymore... unless your building junk games that don't work...
i forgot what the original topic was a while back.....cpm need to show us what their actually doing...its all talk from some guy with tag at the moment
NDA's are still widely used in the industry. They're everywhere, literally everywhere.
Yup. I'm under NDA for a justifiable reason (I work for a private military contractor that does maintenance for the Air Force).
My mom? Under NDA for her job as well. She works at a uniform cleaning service. NDAs are everywhere, be it a justifiable reason or a really stupid one.
Aeon's Links
In an effort to be "positive" I will agree to everything CCP does.
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Aeon Amadi
Chimera Core
7723
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Posted - 2015.01.04 18:36:00 -
[9] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:steadyhand amarr wrote:However the wall of NDA will constantly undermine anything you say. We simple have no proof what you are saying is happening it's all just words. Their is simply noway for anyone to know what cpm doing and achieving. There's a lot of things that they discuss with us that most certainly belong under the bounds of an NDA. Unfortunately, it's impossible to explain what those are without also breaking it. :/ What I can tell you is I do my best to be completely honest, and not mislead in any way. Aeon Amadi wrote:Should we submit ideas that are low-hanging fruit, like small balancing tweaks, or are we completely open to the realm of fantasy and submit ideas like a legitimate Commander suit/role or Minmatar/Amarr vehicles? Even still, I wonder if it even matters as, again, there is no acknowledgement or responses given to either. How do we know that CCP has read them? How do we know that they're even plausible? What kind of game is CCP trying to make and what is the best feedback to give them to help them achieve that goal? Answer is both. Bearing in mind that small low-hanging fruit can probably be added into releases already on the roadmap, whereas larger things would likely end up on a backlog for a future release, as they may take more resources than we have to devote to a side feature. Minmatar/Amarr vehicles, mind you, have already been discussed as possibly starting out as recolors of our existing vehicles so we can get them out with hotfix-level effort. The way it's intended to show you the Trello is being read is for Rattati's own Trello to be publicly visible, so people can see when issues or suggestions hit his personal radar. I know he said he was working on cleaning that up a bit so it was presentable, I will follow up with him on where progress is on that this week. Aeon Amadi wrote:Are the CPM asking -those- kinds of questions or are they resigned to just talking about what's in the next update? We ask a LOT of questions, both short-term and long-term. We've been scheduling meetings with CCP Rouge periodically to talk about the long-term future. Our meetings with CCP Rattati tend to be more of a short-term focus, though short-term may be even a few updates out in that context.
See, and that's all you had to say to reassure me and I'm a skeptical cynical **** by nature. Thank you for that.
Aeon's Links
In an effort to be "positive" I will agree to everything CCP does.
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