DUST Search - Assault Suit feedback.

Breakin Stuff wrote:

I think it's time to drop this "jack of all trades" mindset when we consider how assaults should perform.

We have a generalist setup in DUST. We call these generalists "frames."

I firmly believe assault should be considered mainline/vanguard infantry and treated accordingly. No more of this "little bit of everything" attitude.

The mission of the assault is to locate, close with and destroy the enemy. Anything else should be considered a bonus.

Sentinel suits are bonused for defense and carry heavy weapons. They should be treated as mobile hardpoint and fire SUPPORT, not as the main attack line.

Logis are support already. They just need survival and speed buffs.

Commandos should be adding firepower in close for assault pushes as well as point defense against vehicles for a squad.

Scouts should be target locators, infiltration and sentry killers. They should be the ones murdering outriders and solo artists, not disrupting entire squads. Scouts fighting down other classes within that class biliwick should be an indication of a damned good scout, not a mad bombing RE flinger.

Assaults should be the mainline. the other suits should be supporting an assault attack or defense, not substituting for an assault group.

Making assault suits the jacks of all trades means they can be the master of none.

I am not a primary assault player. I focus on sentinel and commando. But my view is that the assault squad should provide the most effective mainline force with the others acting in specific roles or acting as force multipliers, not as universal substitutes for having assault players.

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Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5275	Posted - 2014.11.24 11:07:00 - [1] - Quote I think it's time to drop this "jack of all trades" mindset when we consider how assaults should perform. We have a generalist setup in DUST. We call these generalists "frames." I firmly believe assault should be considered mainline/vanguard infantry and treated accordingly. No more of this "little bit of everything" attitude. The mission of the assault is to locate, close with and destroy the enemy. Anything else should be considered a bonus. Sentinel suits are bonused for defense and carry heavy weapons. They should be treated as mobile hardpoint and fire SUPPORT, not as the main attack line. Logis are support already. They just need survival and speed buffs. Commandos should be adding firepower in close for assault pushes as well as point defense against vehicles for a squad. Scouts should be target locators, infiltration and sentry killers. They should be the ones murdering outriders and solo artists, not disrupting entire squads. Scouts fighting down other classes within that class biliwick should be an indication of a damned good scout, not a mad bombing RE flinger. Assaults should be the mainline. the other suits should be supporting an assault attack or defense, not substituting for an assault group. Making assault suits the jacks of all trades means they can be the master of none. I am not a primary assault player. I focus on sentinel and commando. But my view is that the assault squad should provide the most effective mainline force with the others acting in specific roles or acting as force multipliers, not as universal substitutes for having assault players. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Spectral Clone Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3176	Posted - 2014.11.24 11:45:00 - [2] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: The mission of the assault is to locate, close with and destroy the enemy. locate Give assaults in general a boost in scan precision. destroy the enemy Give gal and cal decent "damage time on target" bonuses (similar to amarr and minmatar assaults). Both of the above fixed. EVE: Legion, also known as: Schroedinger's Game, EVE: Limbo, or just "Not-a-game-yet".
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5281	Posted - 2014.11.24 12:34:00 - [3] - Quote Spectral Clone wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: The mission of the assault is to locate, close with and destroy the enemy. locate Give assaults in general a boost in scan precision. destroy the enemy Give gal and cal decent "damage time on target" bonuses (similar to amarr and minmatar assaults). Both of the above fixed. Doesn't fix them in relation to the other suits. I am of the opinion that the other suits need to be adjusted into deeper support roles. Giving the gallente and caldari a good bonus isn't magically going to inspire a meta shift away from sentinel and scout spam. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Spectral Clone Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3178	Posted - 2014.11.24 12:40:00 - [4] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Spectral Clone wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: The mission of the assault is to locate, close with and destroy the enemy. locate Give assaults in general a boost in scan precision. destroy the enemy Give gal and cal decent "damage time on target" bonuses (similar to amarr and minmatar assaults). Both of the above fixed. Doesn't fix them in relation to the other suits. I am of the opinion that the other suits need to be adjusted into deeper support roles. Giving the gallente and caldari a good bonus isn't magically going to inspire a meta shift away from sentinel and scout spam. I agree that the weapon bonus is not the main thing here, but giving assault the best passive scan precision in the game will change the meta. EVE: Legion, also known as: Schroedinger's Game, EVE: Limbo, or just "Not-a-game-yet".
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5282	Posted - 2014.11.24 12:47:00 - [5] - Quote I disagree fully. I think de-nerfing the rifles and then bonusing the suits to apply better damage will change some of the meta. Precision won't do much because you will still be able to detect assault logi and fatty easily. You still won't detect scouts. EWAR is a red herring for assault efficacy. But I think tweaking the other suits (or the heavy weapons) to move them away from mainline killing is the answer. Assaults are bluntly better statted and more powerful than when they were kings of the battlefield. Their primary weapons are just crap for killing. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 13370	Posted - 2014.11.24 13:17:00 - [6] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Assaults are bluntly better statted and more powerful than when they were kings of the battlefield. Their primary weapons are just crap for killing. Everything is relative. You have to remember that since the days of the Assault, everything aside from Logis got numerous buffs and bonuses, power creep came in and now even though Assaults are better than ever, they're still weaker than average. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 5039	Posted - 2014.11.24 13:19:00 - [7] - Quote Buffing the core infantry rifles (RR, CR, ScR, AR) will also buff scouts and logis, though indirectly. I see light-assault scouts with CRs and ARs amassing stupid high kills already; giving their weapon a buff would only make matters worse. If a buff happens, it needs to happen to the assault dropsuits' stats and commando bonuses so the buff doesn't inadvertently make scouts any more OP. My advice to you, playa...
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 13371	Posted - 2014.11.24 13:30:00 - [8] - Quote Oh and yes, I agree with this, 100%. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++
Cavani1EE7 Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance 561	Posted - 2014.11.24 13:54:00 - [9] - Quote I'd prefer a profile buff rather than a precision one. And also the only assault here underperforming his role is the CalAssault, due to four main reasons: lolRR lolShieldTanking The bonus The cal scout being better than it in every aspect except HP Take a bow
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 634	Posted - 2014.11.24 14:05:00 - [10] - Quote As far as Ambush goes, protostompers already favor a MedFrame mix. The "uber slayer squads" (like Kaizuki Sniper and Company) are all running Assault. Haven't seen them in Scout suits since the +slot buff to Assaults. Confined maps still favor Sentinel Spam, but that's a problem more to do with Sentinels and HMGs than Assault Frames. As for Assault Lite, these trouble makers are in for a kick in the pants if Rattati rolls out Scout Efficacy Bonuses (as expected). TL;DR: There will be less need for combat buffs to Assault after problem units are tuned.

BL4CKST4R La Muerte Eterna Dark Taboo 3368	Posted - 2014.11.24 14:41:00 - [11] - Quote Cavani1EE7 wrote: I'd prefer a profile buff rather than a precision one. And also the only assault here underperforming his role is the CalAssault, due to four main reasons: lolRR lolShieldTanking The bonus The cal scout being better than it in every aspect except HP My CalAssault is great sorry you got a bad batch supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5292	Posted - 2014.11.24 14:43:00 - [12] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: As far as Ambush goes, protostompers already favor a MedFrame mix. The "uber slayer squads" (like Kaizuki Sniper and Company) are all running Assault. Haven't seen them in Scout suits since the +slot buff to Assaults. Confined maps still favor Sentinel Spam, but that's a problem more to do with Sentinels and HMGs than Assault Frames. As for Assault Lite, these trouble makers are in for a kick in the pants if Rattati rolls out Scout Efficacy Bonuses (as expected). TL;DR: There will be less need for combat buffs to Assault after problem units are tuned. This is not a statement that I think yhere is an inherent problem to the assault suit stats/bonusing. That is all covered far more completely elsewhere. This is more my statement I believe that the word "generalist" should be eliminated from considerations of balance. I think the assault conceptually should fit best as the go-to suit for general infantry combat. The main offensive line. The vanguard enemy force. A lot of problems with DUST seem to stem from a lack of doctrinal vision. Everyone wants to have the customization and freedom of fitting and wrongly believe having a primary intended focus diminishes that. Assaults should be "generalist" in the same vein that a marine or soldier in a line infantry can be a combat engineer. If you can't remove an obstacle with explosives then you clearly weren't using enough. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 13372	Posted - 2014.11.24 14:46:00 - [13] - Quote Cavani1EE7 wrote: I'd prefer a profile buff rather than a precision one. And also the only assault here underperforming his role is the CalAssault, due to four main reasons: lolRR lolShieldTanking The bonus The cal scout being better than it in every aspect except HP So that's why according to Rattati's stats (from a couple of weeks ago, not sure about now), the Gal Assault is the least used Assault suit? Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 634	Posted - 2014.11.24 14:50:00 - [14] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: This is more my statement I believe that the word "generalist" should be eliminated from considerations of balance. I think the assault conceptually should fit best as the go-to suit for general infantry combat. The main offensive line. The vanguard enemy force. Understood and agreed. And I believe Rattati is on the same page. He has said on a number of occasions that Assault should be the go-to slayer suit.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5293	Posted - 2014.11.24 14:57:00 - [15] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: This is more my statement I believe that the word "generalist" should be eliminated from considerations of balance. I think the assault conceptually should fit best as the go-to suit for general infantry combat. The main offensive line. The vanguard enemy force. Understood and agreed. And I believe Rattati is on the same page. He has said on a number of occasions that Assault should be the go-to slayer suit. Which makes me incredibly happy to hear. Im a sentinel player. I joined the HMG club because being the demon of evil that forces you to hide so my little buddies can dive in and chop you up appeals. Unfortunately I am a giant ball of shooty mcbangbang that eats people in close. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 5069	Posted - 2014.11.24 15:07:00 - [16] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Assaults are bluntly better statted and more powerful than when they were kings of the battlefield. Their primary weapons are just crap for killing. Everything is relative. You have to remember that since the days of the Assault, everything aside from Logis got numerous buffs and bonuses, power creep came in and now even though Assaults are better than ever, they're still weaker than average. As far as weapons, I don't think directly de-nerfing the weapons is the way to go. Rather de-nerf the weapons using Assault bonuses. Yes, give straight up damage buffs. I think Commando bonuses should turn into clip size and ammo carry amount bonuses to act as fire support, literally turning the Rifles into LMG's. And as far as AV... Maybe even have the clip size bonuses apply to AV If not then just ammo carry amount. I agree with the furry one. I have said for a long time that I felt that the Assault suit should get a class Damage bonus. I also really like his suggestion of switching the Commando bonus to a clip size bonus, which would lend itself to the ability to lay down suppressive fire, which is the Heavy Frame role. The Minmatar Assault should retain its clip size bonus. I donGÇÖt see the Min Assault and the Commando having overlap with the same bonus, as the difference in health and speed between these suits would dictate that these suits would make use of their clip size bonus differently. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5294	Posted - 2014.11.24 15:18:00 - [17] - Quote I have no problem with the idea of assaults having a damage bonus. However I think rate of fire might be more appropriate as a general assault role bonus. Let the commandos "hot load" weapons with specialist ammo for damage or something. Similar bonusing different method of application. I also think sentinels should be converted to long range fire support but I doubt that will ever be a thing. People are too married to the idea that they need to be the CQC kings. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Kaeru Nayiri OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 213	Posted - 2014.11.24 20:43:00 - [18] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: I think it's time to drop this "jack of all trades" mindset when we consider how assaults should perform. We have a generalist setup in DUST. We call these generalists "frames." I firmly believe assault should be considered mainline/vanguard infantry and treated accordingly. No more of this "little bit of everything" attitude. The mission of the assault is to locate, close with and destroy the enemy. Anything else should be considered a bonus. Sentinel suits are bonused for defense and carry heavy weapons. They should be treated as mobile hardpoint and fire SUPPORT, not as the main attack line. Logis are support already. They just need survival and speed buffs. Commandos should be adding firepower in close for assault pushes as well as point defense against vehicles for a squad. Scouts should be target locators, infiltration and sentry killers. They should be the ones murdering outriders and solo artists, not disrupting entire squads. Scouts fighting down other classes within that class biliwick should be an indication of a damned good scout, not a mad bombing RE flinger. Assaults should be the mainline. the other suits should be supporting an assault attack or defense, not substituting for an assault group. Making assault suits the jacks of all trades means they can be the master of none. I am not a primary assault player. I focus on sentinel and commando. But my view is that the assault squad should provide the most effective mainline force with the others acting in specific roles or acting as force multipliers, not as universal substitutes for having assault players. This is what I want in my Dust514. This and this and this and this and everything. ALL THE THING.
Kaeru Nayiri OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 213	Posted - 2014.11.24 20:48:00 - [19] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: I agree with the furry one. I have said for a long time that I felt that the Assault suit should get a class Damage bonus. I also really like his suggestion of switching the Commando bonus to a clip size bonus, which would lend itself to the ability to lay down suppressive fire, which is the Heavy Frame role. The Minmatar Assault should retain its clip size bonus. I donGÇÖt see the Min Assault and the Commando having overlap with the same bonus, as the difference in health and speed between these suits would dictate that these suits would make use of their clip size bonus differently. Also all of this +1
Spectral Clone Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3180	Posted - 2014.11.24 20:54:00 - [20] - Quote Assault suits are not stealth suits. EVE: Legion, also known as: Schroedinger's Game, EVE: Limbo, or just "Not-a-game-yet".

True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 15012	Posted - 2014.11.24 22:03:00 - [21] - Quote Spectral Clone wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: The mission of the assault is to locate, close with and destroy the enemy. locate Give assaults in general a boost in scan precision. destroy the enemy Give gal and cal decent "damage time on target" bonuses (similar to amarr and minmatar assaults). Both of the above fixed. EW EW EW so missing the point. I said, "Empress, I do this, I thought that you knew this. Can't stand non-believers and honest, the truth is...
Victor Moody Stahl Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 151	Posted - 2014.11.25 00:30:00 - [22] - Quote I like. A lot in fact. At present my playstyle is, I would say, about 50/50 support-y/shooty; this is part of why I chose the Amarr Logi (it's usable enough, at least, for both). At present, if I wanted to use an assault suit for anything whatsoever... it would be the Amarr Assault as a dedicated LR platform. Because the heat bonus is far and above superior for running the LR, and if we consider proto rigs/mods/skills, then three Complex Damage mods pretty much equals/slightly beats the Amarr commando bonus combined with the solo damage mod it would almost always fit. That said, it may also be because I favor more supportive roles, because it offers a greater potential diversity- even within a given aspect of "support"- than simple "shoot those red dots for lots of +50s". Meh, who can say these days. Buff Logis \| Nerf Scouts
Zindorak G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 1339	Posted - 2014.11.25 01:49:00 - [23] - Quote Im happy on how my Amarr assault is atm. AScR isn't very good but i mainly use Scr and LR. Whats LR optimal? Targets seem closer than they are in the scope. Pokemon master and Tekken Lord Gk0 Scout yay :)
Finn Colman Immortal Guides 64	Posted - 2014.11.25 02:25:00 - [24] - Quote Assaults should definitely be the top slayers, as should be evidenced by their names. The little Min with the little voice.
IZI doro Terminal Courtesy Proficiency V. 16	Posted - 2014.11.25 03:33:00 - [25] - Quote Assault Bonus: 3% to Module Efficacy; 3% to CPU/PG Fitting Optimization *The very general bonus rewards specialization, but also aids adaptability. One can be good in everything but the best when properly prepared. Modules run better on the assault and customizing the suit is much easier. The assault suit in my opinion should simply enhance whatever fit it was designed to do. Not necessarily the "jack-of-all-trades" or the "slayer" but the "prepared specialist." If the fit is meant to focus on combat, then the stacked Damage mods and HP mods will be definitely better. If the fit is mean to be a hacker, then the stacked codebreakers will be best ran on this suit. Runner? Stack KinCats. EWAR? Stack Precision Enhancers and Range Amplifiers. The Assault Suit should offer a platform where any role can be met, but true shines when specialized. Getting more out of their equipment, while being able to bring anything to the battlefield is what an Assault suit should be. Ignorance is only a problem when left untreated. Stop the spread of ignorance with a daily dose of knowledge!
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5321	Posted - 2014.11.25 10:59:00 - [26] - Quote No. Assault. If it's named assault it should be optimized to attack and fight. There is no real focused infantry line killer role in DUST. Not by suit class. The assault should be that line killer. The logi is a utility suit. Build off that for utility roles. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2917	Posted - 2014.11.25 12:19:00 - [27] - Quote The Assault does not need any more buffs to combat performance... The only thing Id like to see happen are a scan range buff so that they can't be snuck up on by Heavies, a SLIGHT profile buff, and MOAR REGEN. Like way more regen. Min Assault, the one i use, should have 3/4 delays, or 2/3 delays, with a 30 recharge rate, and a 2.5 armor rep rate. "Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 5096	Posted - 2014.11.25 12:46:00 - [28] - Quote Spectral Clone wrote: Assault suits are not stealth suits. No, but they should be the counter to stealth suits. Since we are getting concentric ring scanning, maybe something can be done with that? - Give Assault suits a base scan range of 15m. - Instead of the rings being 25%, 75%, 100% range make them 50%, 75%, 100% for Assault. - Give Assault suits a major bonus to scanning in the inner ring (near range) scanning. Scouts are supposed to be the counter to Heavies. Assaults are supposed to be the counter to Scouts. Therefore it should be harder for a Scout to sneak up on an Assault. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5325	Posted - 2014.11.25 12:55:00 - [29] - Quote Ehhhh hard RPS is crap. Assaults should have a better CHANCE against scouts than fatties. Just like AV should have a decent chance against tanks. I don't think making the RPS as absolute as a lot of people think it should be is healthy EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.


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Pokemon master and Tekken Lord

Gk0 Scout yay :)