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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
5275
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Posted - 2014.11.24 11:07:00 -
[1] - Quote
I think it's time to drop this "jack of all trades" mindset when we consider how assaults should perform.
We have a generalist setup in DUST. We call these generalists "frames."
I firmly believe assault should be considered mainline/vanguard infantry and treated accordingly. No more of this "little bit of everything" attitude.
The mission of the assault is to locate, close with and destroy the enemy. Anything else should be considered a bonus.
Sentinel suits are bonused for defense and carry heavy weapons. They should be treated as mobile hardpoint and fire SUPPORT, not as the main attack line.
Logis are support already. They just need survival and speed buffs.
Commandos should be adding firepower in close for assault pushes as well as point defense against vehicles for a squad.
Scouts should be target locators, infiltration and sentry killers. They should be the ones murdering outriders and solo artists, not disrupting entire squads. Scouts fighting down other classes within that class biliwick should be an indication of a damned good scout, not a mad bombing RE flinger.
Assaults should be the mainline. the other suits should be supporting an assault attack or defense, not substituting for an assault group.
Making assault suits the jacks of all trades means they can be the master of none.
I am not a primary assault player. I focus on sentinel and commando. But my view is that the assault squad should provide the most effective mainline force with the others acting in specific roles or acting as force multipliers, not as universal substitutes for having assault players.
EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
5281
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Posted - 2014.11.24 12:34:00 -
[2] - Quote
Spectral Clone wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:
The mission of the assault is to locate, close with and destroy the enemy.
locateGive assaults in general a boost in scan precision. destroy the enemyGive gal and cal decent "damage time on target" bonuses (similar to amarr and minmatar assaults). Both of the above fixed.
Doesn't fix them in relation to the other suits. I am of the opinion that the other suits need to be adjusted into deeper support roles. Giving the gallente and caldari a good bonus isn't magically going to inspire a meta shift away from sentinel and scout spam.
EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
5282
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Posted - 2014.11.24 12:47:00 -
[3] - Quote
I disagree fully.
I think de-nerfing the rifles and then bonusing the suits to apply better damage will change some of the meta.
Precision won't do much because you will still be able to detect assault logi and fatty easily. You still won't detect scouts. EWAR is a red herring for assault efficacy.
But I think tweaking the other suits (or the heavy weapons) to move them away from mainline killing is the answer.
Assaults are bluntly better statted and more powerful than when they were kings of the battlefield. Their primary weapons are just crap for killing.
EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
5292
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Posted - 2014.11.24 14:43:00 -
[4] - Quote
Vitantur Nothus wrote:As far as Ambush goes, protostompers already favor a MedFrame mix. The "uber slayer squads" (like Kaizuki Sniper and Company) are all running Assault. Haven't seen them in Scout suits since the +slot buff to Assaults.
Confined maps still favor Sentinel Spam, but that's a problem more to do with Sentinels and HMGs than Assault Frames. As for Assault Lite, these trouble makers are in for a kick in the pants if Rattati rolls out Scout Efficacy Bonuses (as expected).
TL;DR: There will be less need for combat buffs to Assault after problem units are tuned.
This is not a statement that I think yhere is an inherent problem to the assault suit stats/bonusing. That is all covered far more completely elsewhere.
This is more my statement I believe that the word "generalist" should be eliminated from considerations of balance.
I think the assault conceptually should fit best as the go-to suit for general infantry combat. The main offensive line.
The vanguard enemy force.
A lot of problems with DUST seem to stem from a lack of doctrinal vision. Everyone wants to have the customization and freedom of fitting and wrongly believe having a primary intended focus diminishes that.
Assaults should be "generalist" in the same vein that a marine or soldier in a line infantry can be a combat engineer.
If you can't remove an obstacle with explosives then you clearly weren't using enough.
EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
5293
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Posted - 2014.11.24 14:57:00 -
[5] - Quote
Vitantur Nothus wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:
This is more my statement I believe that the word "generalist" should be eliminated from considerations of balance. I think the assault conceptually should fit best as the go-to suit for general infantry combat. The main offensive line. The vanguard enemy force.
Understood and agreed. And I believe Rattati is on the same page. He has said on a number of occasions that Assault should be the go-to slayer suit.
Which makes me incredibly happy to hear.
Im a sentinel player. I joined the HMG club because being the demon of evil that forces you to hide so my little buddies can dive in and chop you up appeals.
Unfortunately I am a giant ball of shooty mcbangbang that eats people in close.
EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
5294
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Posted - 2014.11.24 15:18:00 -
[6] - Quote
I have no problem with the idea of assaults having a damage bonus.
However I think rate of fire might be more appropriate as a general assault role bonus.
Let the commandos "hot load" weapons with specialist ammo for damage or something.
Similar bonusing different method of application.
I also think sentinels should be converted to long range fire support but I doubt that will ever be a thing.
People are too married to the idea that they need to be the CQC kings.
EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
5321
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Posted - 2014.11.25 10:59:00 -
[7] - Quote
No.
Assault. If it's named assault it should be optimized to attack and fight.
There is no real focused infantry line killer role in DUST. Not by suit class. The assault should be that line killer.
The logi is a utility suit. Build off that for utility roles.
EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
5325
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Posted - 2014.11.25 12:55:00 -
[8] - Quote
Ehhhh hard RPS is crap.
Assaults should have a better CHANCE against scouts than fatties. Just like AV should have a decent chance against tanks.
I don't think making the RPS as absolute as a lot of people think it should be is healthy
EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
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