How many of you would prefer Cal Assaults got a new bonus of reduced kick and charge up time?

Perhaps 5% reduced kick per level 10% reduced charge time (3% reduced charge time if they unnerf the current .6 charge up back to .3)

How many of you would like to see the assault class given the 10% damage increase commando's currently receive?

Lastly...how many of you would use the commando class if you did not have the 10% damage buff...but were given bonuses to the ability for your weapon to sustain their DPS longer (extra ammo, increase reload speed, etc), an extra 300 ehp per suit to compensate as well as a grenade slot?
Commando's become a true heavy suit using light weapons but with more mobility and 2 light weapons. :P

Oh...and anyone feel like the logi could get a little bit of a move speed buff?

Thanks!

Edit: So the conclusions thus far:

The reduced kick has a majority for support.

Less than a majority like the charge reduction, lot's of feedback saying the charge time of the RR just needs to be reduced.

Majority support for assaults to have the commando bonus...but a lot of people precluding that support for that needs to depend on finding a great way to buff commando's.

SO! We more feedback on how best to buff the commando in the wake of losing the 10% damage bonus.

Mixed support for logi's move speed being buffed.

How many of you would prefer Cal Assaults got a new bonus of reduced kick and charge up time?

Perhaps 5% reduced kick per level 10% reduced charge time (3% reduced charge time if they unnerf the current .6 charge up back to .3)

How many of you would like to see the assault class given the 10% damage increase commando's currently receive?

Lastly...how many of you would use the commando class if you did not have the 10% damage buff...but were given bonuses to the ability for your weapon to sustain their DPS longer (extra ammo, increase reload speed, etc), an extra 300 ehp per suit to compensate as well as a grenade slot?
Commando's become a true heavy suit using light weapons but with more mobility and 2 light weapons. :P

Oh...and anyone feel like the logi could get a little bit of a move speed buff?

Thanks!

Edit: So the conclusions thus far:

The reduced kick has a majority for support.

Less than a majority like the charge reduction, lot's of feedback saying the charge time of the RR just needs to be reduced.

Majority support for assaults to have the commando bonus...but a lot of people precluding that support for that needs to depend on finding a great way to buff commando's.

SO! We more feedback on how best to buff the commando in the wake of losing the 10% damage bonus.

Mixed support for logi's move speed being buffed.

He probably did, but it seems he doesn't really care. Just seems to be trying to find supporters for what he wants pushed through.

Damage buff would make assaults more viable against heavies

300 ehp? What's the average current average hp of a proto commando now?

Being a commando would be cool in theory if I had a significant more ehp pool than an assault but he had the regen and damage.

Sounds balanced to me. Might see rep logi's on commando's then.

Assaults shouldn't be able to 1v1 a heavy. And I can solo most heavies right now. We don't need more dps if the assaults get OP they gonna get nerfed. So be reasonable when you ask for something

Lol in a cqc environment the AR (highest cqc variant rifle) does like 450 dps.

The HMG is 792.

You fought a bad heavy.

2x the ehp...and WAAAAAY higher DPS.

And the proof is in the pudding..assaults and logi PC participation rates are pretty much nill because shotgun scouts > all but a blob of heavies.

In 1.7 you couldn't 1v1 a heavy unless he was worse than you.

And yes since 1.7 we nerfed a bunch of the rifles DPS...and haven't nerfed HMG dps.

I use a duvolle TAC and I've 1v1d a lot of heavies just takes about 2 clips

Sure, so have I. They were bad heavies. Got a capture card? You should fight a PC match in an assault suit with a tac. See how that goes in CQC.

I don't have an issue with this..I just know there is a LOT of gal assaults who do not want to see the bonus changed because it enhances their CQC abilities and DOES enhance certain weapons long range capacity (TAC and burst)

I actually find the assertion that gal does less damage further away to be flawed.

ALL weaponry does less damage at whatever range is intended to be "too far" but gallente have 1 definitive long range weapon (tac) a medium and feasibly long range weapon (burst) and 2 I would suppose cqc to medium weapons (normal and breach)

That's what I do I love the CH the most for using my duvolle Tac and no I don't camp up high

CH?

Cargo Hub

Oh look at that my tard detector started going off in this comments direction.

Well I am excited to see this. PC match later you'll be on?

But he's right, assault damage output is fine, if the problem are heavies HP why not just nerf heavies HP or resistances?

Premise

"There is too much overlap between the Assault and Commando." This is something I hear very often, and it definitely has its share of truth. Over the course of my Dust career I've dabbled in every role, but by far my most used suits are the Assault and Commando. While I can tell apart the very subtle differences between the suits and what would be a better choice in a certain situation, it has gotten to the point where after the Uprising 1.8 respec I skilled into every class except the Assault because it was too similar to the Commando to warrant another couple million of my SP. What's even more worrisome is CCP notices this as well as evident by the Commando not even existing in the current build of Project Legion. However, for the purposes of this thread let's keep the discussion to what can be done to differentiate the Assault and Commando through hotfixes in Dust 514. If successful, maybe we can see the Commandos return in Legion Smile


My Proposal

Let me stress that this is just my opinion on what would make the two roles distinct. Please take it for nothing more. Use it as a starting ground to bring your own proposals to the table, or don't and bring up new proposals completely unrelated to how I do it! The point is, let's all come up with ideas and provide constructive feedback to each other.

So let me begin. Currently there isn't much differentiating the two. Both specializations bring hard hitting firepower to the table, while the Assaults get a little more mobility and a smaller hitbox whereas Commandos get two light weapons and more EHP. These are some great starting points, but not nearly enough to truly differentiate the two. I would believe the problem really starts to come into play when you examine the bonuses. The Assaults generally get bonuses that extend the fight, such as Amarr being able to fire laser weaponry longer, Minmatar being able to fire more projectile rounds before reloading, and Caldari being able to reload rails faster to continue shooting again sooner. The Commandos on the other time all have bonuses that shorten the fight, with flat DPS bonuses to down the enemy quicker. When you consider that the Assault is the one with less EHP that means it is less survivable in full out firefights which means it doesn't make sense that it would want to extend the fight. Really, the bonuses are backwards. Assaults should be trying to end a fight as soon as possible, whereas a Commando should be extending it (the Dust in-game client calls Commandos "the ultimate suppression fighters"). So let's start with this:

Assault Class: 2% increased damage to light weapons and sidearms per level
Amarr Assault: 5% decreased heat build up to laser weaponry per level
Caldari Assault: 5% increased magazine size to hybrid - rail weaponry per level
Gallente Assault: 5% increased magazine size to hybrid - blaster weaponry per level
Minmatar Assault: 5% increased magazine size to projectile weaponry per level
*adjusted based on Kagehoshi's feedback

Alright so now time for the Commando. This is a little trickier because it's not as simple as simply taking all the old assault, because for one they weren't that great to begin with, secondly the Caldari Assault's bonus overlaps with the Commando class bonus, and thirdly the Gallente Assault's bonus doesn't really fit with the theme of "the ultimate suppression fighter." So what would work? Well if we are going to go for making them suppression fighters then ammo capacity seems like a logical place to look at. And if it is going to be ammo capacity, then it will have to be something significant to make it feel worth it. So how about this:

Commando Class: 20% increased ammo capacity of light weapons and sidearms per level
Amarr Commando: 5% increased reload speed of laser weaponry per level
Caldari Commando: 5% increased reload speed of hybrid - rail weaponry per level
Gallente Commando: 5% increased reload speed of hybrid - blaster weaponry per level
Minmatar Commando: 5% increased reload speed of projectile and explosive weaponry per level
*adjusted based on Kagehoshi's feedback

Do note that for both the Assault and Commando, all bonuses apply to both light weapons and sidearms. This is because one should not be penalized for wanting to use a sidearm in the light weapon slot, as it is a cascading system. And this actually paves the way for the Assault to have two light weapon slots as discussed for Project Legion and still be distinctive enough from the Commando.


Conclusion

The Assault and Commando now fill two very distinctive roles. The Assault class as the speed and mobility to charge in bases or flank the enemy and then deal with them quickly, whereas the Commando is less mobile but still able to keep up with the squad and has the EHP to provide constant suppression fire with up two twice the normal ammo capacity and a fast reload speed to boot! The Commando may not be doing much killing as it won't have the strongest weapons (the Assault will) but it will be able to constantly fire for a long duration, even if it knows it is not hitting anyone, and become that "ultimate suppression fighter."

Says the guy in the same corp as the CPM proposing these changes. My conflict of interest detector is going off all over in this threads direction.

On the contrary. I have no issue with none of the changes being implemented.
-irrelevant parts snipped-
Supported the RR CQC nerfs.

On the contrary. I have no issue with none of the changes being implemented.

The only thing I am absolutely certain should be fixed is the RR charge time and HMG damage reduced. (bring back the crazy hipfire kick or add in hipfire dispersion)

But neither of those things are being debated here...those are tertiary issues.

These are issues the community has been debating a long time (obv).

So feel free to call me out about pushing my agenda..I took the ideas from the communities feedback.

From people just like you.

So feel free to conclude otherwise because you can...but it's simply not true.

I support nerds to my scout suits/coak

Supported the RR CQC nerfs.

Supported the Burst HMG being debuffed...and tons more.

-_- hmg is fine the reason the assault isn't used in PC is because it doesn't have that thing that makes it awesome
Sentinels: high hp, HMG, resistances
Scouts : 2 equip. slots, dampened, fastest, smallest hit box, best passive scans, can have decent amount of HP
Logi : 3 or 4 equip slots so they can do a lot at once
Commandos: 2 light weapons, extra DMG and fast reloading
Assault: good amount of HP and speed
See the assaults don't have anything that give them that wow factor that's why a lot of people don't use assault suits

Lol, you say that...but the numbers in PC say

Assaults/Logi's/Commando's all suck in PC.

Scouts and heavies.

How many of you would prefer Cal Assaults got a new bonus of reduced kick and charge up time?

Perhaps 5% reduced kick per level 10% reduced charge time (3% reduced charge time if they unnerf the current .6 charge up back to .3)

How many of you would like to see the assault class given the 10% damage increase commando's currently receive?

Lastly...how many of you would use the commando class if you did not have the 10% damage buff...but were given bonuses to the ability for your weapon to sustain their DPS longer (extra ammo, increase reload speed, etc), an extra 300 ehp per suit to compensate as well as a grenade slot?
Commando's become a true heavy suit using light weapons but with more mobility and 2 light weapons. :P

Oh...and anyone feel like the logi could get a little bit of a move speed buff?

Thanks!

Edit: So the conclusions thus far:

The reduced kick has a majority for support.

Less than a majority like the charge reduction, lot's of feedback saying the charge time of the RR just needs to be reduced.

Majority support for assaults to have the commando bonus...but a lot of people precluding that support for that needs to depend on finding a great way to buff commando's.

SO! We more feedback on how best to buff the commando in the wake of losing the 10% damage bonus.

Mixed support for logi's move speed being buffed.

Why even bother with feedback if you already had your mind made up OP?

If you have a better idea..post it!

Why even bother with feedback if you already had your mind made up OP?

I have one: Leave the Commando's bonus as is.

Unless of course, you'd like players running around with more HP yet being just as fast as an Assault vaporizing anything that isn't stacking 1000+ eHP near-instantly while also having a second bonus which off-sets their only weakness.

I think that's quite the imagination you got there lol

I have barely 800 ehp on my cal assault.

did you know the min scout has more pg than the cal assault?

I just learned today.

6 slots 2 equips vs 8 slots 1 equip. :(

Aren't min supposed to possess the least fitting space?