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Brainstorming CR Mechanics

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Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 319	Posted - 2014.11.18 08:13:00 - [1] - Quote The CR balancing mechanics are not effective lets think of some unique ideas to increase the fun and skill cap of the weapon. Lets stay away from direct stat changes the devs can handle any balance alterations they choose if any. Stay on topic I don't care if you think it needs changed or not this is just a brainstorming session so try not to get your panties in a bunch. I think making it manual reload could be a cool mechanic when you're in combat is when it becomes a balancing factor during those moments of excitement when you hit that trigger and hear click. The Impossible Dream-Wizard Talk @MMoMerc
The Master Race Immortal Guides 319	Posted - 2014.11.18 08:13:00 - [2] - Quote The CR balancing mechanics are not effective lets think of some unique ideas to increase the fun and skill cap of the weapon. Lets stay away from direct stat changes the devs can handle any balance alterations they choose if any. Stay on topic I don't care if you think it needs changed or not this is just a brainstorming session so try not to get your panties in a bunch. I think making it manual reload could be a cool mechanic when you're in combat is when it becomes a balancing factor during those moments of excitement when you hit that trigger and hear click. The Impossible Dream-Wizard Talk @MMoMerc
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 319	Posted - 2014.11.18 08:16:00 - [3] - Quote How about a actual jamming mechanic (not like the ion bug) a rng roll for reload it is a projectile weapon and this happens quite often with open bolt systems. Bright Steel wrote: Only if you fired too quickly, like more than 2 burst a second. Otherwise i would be pissed if I randomly died when it jammed, cause that's what would happen. If that did happen I would expect the others to experience random malfunctions... I like that, leaving it up to the player to screw themselves it would also likely put an end to turbo you sneaky bugger :D. Not to get off topic, but I wish they would have done something like that with the cloak delay. Like a damage debuff instead of just not being able to fire that way scouts would have a chance to expose themselves. The Impossible Dream-Wizard Talk @MMoMerc
The Master Race Immortal Guides 319	Posted - 2014.11.18 08:16:00 - [4] - Quote How about a actual jamming mechanic (not like the ion bug) a rng roll for reload it is a projectile weapon and this happens quite often with open bolt systems. Bright Steel wrote: Only if you fired too quickly, like more than 2 burst a second. Otherwise i would be pissed if I randomly died when it jammed, cause that's what would happen. If that did happen I would expect the others to experience random malfunctions... I like that, leaving it up to the player to screw themselves it would also likely put an end to turbo you sneaky bugger :D. Not to get off topic, but I wish they would have done something like that with the cloak delay. Like a damage debuff instead of just not being able to fire that way scouts would have a chance to expose themselves. The Impossible Dream-Wizard Talk @MMoMerc
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 14743	Posted - 2014.11.18 08:46:00 - [5] - Quote Is this really necessary? I see no reason why the CR is not already in a good place. "The moment passed in thunder and calamitous intent and yet no order was given to retreat or give their ground"
xAckie Ghost. Mob 463	Posted - 2014.11.18 09:59:00 - [6] - Quote Why do people use CR? Cause everyone is stacking armour. Change that meta. And everyone will change weapon.
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 319	Posted - 2014.11.18 10:22:00 - [7] - Quote Most people are duel tanks even with the ability to is not an effective alternative, armor stacking is Inherent for all classes except ck. Comment in the thread below if you would like to discuss it further: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2402432#post2402432 Please if you would like to take part in this thread please to by all means do, but enough with these attempts to stifle any productivity this thread might have. Discussion is an exchange of knowledge; an argument an exchange of ignorance. The Impossible Dream-Wizard Talk @MMoMerc
The Master Race Immortal Guides 319	Posted - 2014.11.18 10:22:00 - [8] - Quote Most people are duel tanks even with the ability to it is not an effective alternative, armor stacking is Inherent for all classes except ck. Comment in the thread below if you or anyone would like to discuss CR balance further: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2402432#post2402432 Please if you or anyone would like to take part in this thread please to by all means do, but enough with these attempts to stifle any productivity this thread might have. Discussion is an exchange of knowledge; an argument an exchange of ignorance. The Impossible Dream-Wizard Talk @MMoMerc
Fizzer XCIV Heaven's Lost Property Negative-Feedback 1149	Posted - 2014.11.18 10:28:00 - [9] - Quote I'm an Amarr Assault with only a single Enhanced Shield Extender. I'm made out of armor, really... The CR kills me more than any of the other rifles, understandably. I don't see the issue with it really... I don't feel like it kills me too fast, or that I need the enemies weapon to jam so I can get an easy kill. It doesn't need to be nerfed. Please, make my Opus pretty...
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5100	Posted - 2014.11.18 10:41:00 - [10] - Quote xAckie wrote: Why do people use CR? Cause everyone is stacking armour. Change that meta. And everyone will change weapon. Oh my god someone figured out the secret! Silence him!!! No seriously it really is that simple. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.

Zindorak G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 1302	Posted - 2014.11.18 12:56:00 - [11] - Quote What? Is this weapon not good enough? Pokemon master and Tekken Lord Gk0 Scout yay :)
abdullah muzaffar G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 52	Posted - 2014.11.18 12:58:00 - [12] - Quote If the cr were ever to recieve a nerf, it would be removing that useless scope
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5105	Posted - 2014.11.18 13:05:00 - [13] - Quote Zindorak wrote: What? Is this weapon not good enough? Yes it fails to instagib people and give you the winning entry for Publisher's Clearing House all at once. Clearly underpowered. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Happy Violentime OMFGZOMBIESRUN 890	Posted - 2014.11.18 13:38:00 - [14] - Quote Blueprint For Murder wrote: The CR balancing mechanics are not effective lets think of some unique ideas to increase the fun and skill cap of the weapon. Lets stay away from direct stat changes the devs can handle any balance alterations they choose if any. Stay on topic I don't care if you think it needs changed or not this is just a brainstorming session so try not to get your panties in a bunch. I think making it manual reload could be a cool mechanic when you're in combat is when it becomes a balancing factor during those moments of excitement when you hit that trigger and hear click. Honestly dude, stay the **** away from the forums with your tarded ideas. The CR is fine as it is and really doesn't require being tweaked at all.
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 320	Posted - 2014.11.18 13:41:00 - [15] - Quote You seem upset. lol You might be right just consider this thread for fun. The Impossible Dream-Wizard Talk @MMoMerc
Finn Colman Immortal Guides 57	Posted - 2014.11.18 15:00:00 - [16] - Quote The CR is my primary weapon, for no other reason than the fact that it works well with the tactics I use (to clarify further, I use a speed tanked scout). I think that the jamming idea sounds interesting, just as an idea at the very least. Brainstorming is fun so why not contribute. I like the idea of adding a few different firearm malfunctions, or at least just to think about it. Mechanically these ideas below are tailored more towards gameplay than realism and any numbers are off the top of my head. Hangfire: There is a slight delay between a trigger pull and the firing of the burst/bullet. Squib load: Jam, must press the reload button prior to attempting to fire, or in 3 bursts (CR) or 10 bullets (ACR)--each of these bullets failing to escape the barrel--there will be moderate splashback damage from the pressure build-up. Slamfire: Gun may shot a round when it loads into the chamber, causing an extra bullet to fire even if the trigger was not pulled. Only happens after firing or reloading, as this is when a new bullet will be fed into the chamber. Hammer follow: Causes the gun to fire faster than it was designed to, however the condition will deteriorate to the point where it jams completely, and the only way to stop the hammer follow or fix the perma-jam caused by it will be to use a supply depot, or a nanohive. Just some fun ideas to toss around, probably not really a great idea for actual gameplay, beyond the occasional jam coming up when you fire too fast. The little Min with the little voice.
KenKaniff69 2502	Posted - 2014.11.18 18:00:00 - [17] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Is this really necessary? I see no reason why the CR is not already in a good place. ?
Militia Locus Grenade Militia BPO's 43	Posted - 2014.11.18 18:03:00 - [18] - Quote I guess i'm not the only one who thinks this guy is an idiot and should stop posting. From all of us here Go BIomass Yourself
Finn Colman Immortal Guides 59	Posted - 2014.11.19 23:22:00 - [19] - Quote Militia Locus Grenade wrote: I guess i'm not the only one who thinks this guy is an idiot and should stop posting. From all of us here Go BIomass Yourself May I quote The Joker, "Why so serious?" The little Min with the little voice.
Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 8088	Posted - 2014.11.19 23:33:00 - [20] - Quote Personally, I want the gun to have a slower "Burst" ROF, and in exchange, deal more damage per burst. Kinda like the BR from Halo, that thing my not be the fastest with ROF, but those bursts HURT. Bullet Hell and Duct-Tape? Count me in! FA recruits get free officer BPO's. Enlist today. Must be a scrub to enter.

Kalante Schiffer Ancient Exiles. 820	Posted - 2014.11.19 23:42:00 - [21] - Quote Me being an ex resistance fall of man player reloading after every kill became ingrained into my brain. To this day i still reload after every kill or assist. I do not see how this could be a balancing mechanic loL. The CR is fine, i dare you to use that thing in PC (against good players) and pull a 4.0 kd. PC slayer of gods.
Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 8090	Posted - 2014.11.20 00:03:00 - [22] - Quote Kalante Schiffer wrote: Me being an ex resistance fall of man player reloading after every kill became ingrained into my brain. To this day i still reload after every kill or assist. I do not see how this could be a balancing mechanic loL. The CR is fine, i dare you to use that thing in PC (against good players) and pull a 4.0 kd. I dare most people to go into PC and pull 4.0 K/D's. Bullet Hell and Duct-Tape? Count me in! FA recruits get free officer BPO's. Enlist today. Must be a scrub to enter.
Imp Smash molon labe. General Tso's Alliance 408	Posted - 2014.11.20 00:47:00 - [23] - Quote Well, the CR is one of the rifles (like SCR and RR) that always remain above the average in KDR and Purchases. It may be -15% to shields but even in my shield tanked Cal sent suit it sure doesn't feel that way o.O More time to let meta develop needed.
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 345	Posted - 2014.11.20 05:36:00 - [24] - Quote Imp you should check out this link https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2402432#post2402432 it will explain why. The Impossible Dream-Wizard Talk @MMoMerc
The Master Race Immortal Guides 351	Posted - 2014.11.20 05:36:00 - [25] - Quote Imp you should check out this link https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2402432#post2402432 it will explain why. The Impossible Dream-Wizard Talk @MMoMerc
Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 8101	Posted - 2014.11.20 06:03:00 - [26] - Quote How many times are you going to be told that your ideas are terrible before you actually start to examine your own work? Like for crying out loud! Redline "Pings?" That just makes it easier for me to redline stomp. Sidearm only scouts? BRB, gonna take away the LW slot from Logi's while I'm at it. Commandos getting a bonus to SIDE SEAT DRIVING??? Mybofibrils give you a DB PENALTY? Heavy Laser? I can get behind that, but the thing you proposed will only be used to massacre infantry at range with single sweep. Especially since you REMOVED the overheat. Seriously. If one person says you have terrible ideas, pay him no heed. If two people tell you that you have terrible ideas start to wonder. If three people tell you that you have terrible ideas, pick up a book on critical thinking. Bullet Hell and Duct-Tape? Count me in! FA recruits get free officer BPO's. Enlist today. Must be a scrub to enter.
Imp Smash molon labe. General Tso's Alliance 414	Posted - 2014.11.20 06:24:00 - [27] - Quote Blueprint For Murder wrote: Imp you should check out this link https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2402432#post2402432 it will explain why. Roger. I'll check it out now.
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 347	Posted - 2014.11.20 06:51:00 - [28] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: How many times are you going to be told that your ideas are terrible before you actually start to examine your own work? Like for crying out loud! Redline "Pings?" That just makes it easier for me to redline stomp. Sidearm only scouts? BRB, gonna take away the LW slot from Logi's while I'm at it. Commandos getting a bonus to SIDE SEAT DRIVING??? Mybofibrils give you a DB PENALTY? Heavy Laser? I can get behind that, but the thing you proposed will only be used to massacre infantry at range with single sweep. Especially since you REMOVED the overheat. Seriously. If one person says you have terrible ideas, pay him no heed. If two people tell you that you have terrible ideas start to wonder. If three people tell you that you have terrible ideas, pick up a book on critical thinking. Red line - at that point it really doesn't matter because your not likely to recover and to be fair this was thought up when we were under the restriction of no client patches. Instead of restricting scouts to side arms everyone gets to play scout the way they want as long as what they want is to play a cloaked shotgun scout. The commando idea fits lore and would be ******* epic. It is pretty easy to see who is juicing and who isn't :D I didn't remove the overheat, It would not seize, and the overheat would kill you if you let the weapon rip to long. Obviously if 3 people think it is a bad idea it must be /rolls eyes go read a book kid. There are 50 mouth breathers for every productive person on these forums, and the reason there is so much trouble getting positive change. Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Plato The Impossible Dream-Wizard Talk @MMoMerc
The Master Race Immortal Guides 351	Posted - 2014.11.20 06:51:00 - [29] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: How many times are you going to be told that your ideas are terrible before you actually start to examine your own work? Like for crying out loud! Redline "Pings?" That just makes it easier for me to redline stomp. Sidearm only scouts? BRB, gonna take away the LW slot from Logi's while I'm at it. Commandos getting a bonus to SIDE SEAT DRIVING??? Mybofibrils give you a DB PENALTY? Heavy Laser? I can get behind that, but the thing you proposed will only be used to massacre infantry at range with single sweep. Especially since you REMOVED the overheat. Seriously. If one person says you have terrible ideas, pay him no heed. If two people tell you that you have terrible ideas start to wonder. If three people tell you that you have terrible ideas, pick up a book on critical thinking. Red line - at that point it really doesn't matter because your not likely to recover and to be fair this was thought up when we were under the restriction of no client patches. Instead of restricting scouts to side arms everyone gets to play scout the way they want as long as what they want is to play a cloaked shotgun scout. At least they finally balanced scouts.... cough... The commando idea fits lore and would be ******* epic. It is pretty easy to see who is juicing and who isn't :D I didn't remove the overheat, It would not seize, and the overheat would kill you if you let the weapon fire to long instead. If you were able to conceptualize it you would see how difficult it would be to use in AI and AV. Obviously if 3 people think it is a bad idea it must be /rolls eyes go read a book kid. There are 50 mouth breathers for every productive person on these forums, and the reason there is so much trouble getting positive change. It is like a real life zombie movie lol... brains.....BRAINZ! Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Plato The Impossible Dream-Wizard Talk @MMoMerc
VikingKong iBUN T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K 220	Posted - 2014.11.20 08:48:00 - [30] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: Personally, I want the gun to have a slower "Burst" ROF, and in exchange, deal more damage per burst. Kinda like the BR from Halo, that thing my not be the fastest with ROF, but those bursts HURT. I agree with this. The reason the Minmatar continue to use the weapons they do is supposedly because they are so reliable. A burst weapon that takes 10 bursts to kill someone is in no way reliable, in fact it is totally unnecessary for it to fire in bursts at all. I see no reason for a rifle to be fired exclusively in burst mode unless you can actually rely on a single burst to do a significant amount of damage. The fact that you can fire it pretty much automatic also seriously undermines the ACR, a standard CR can get almost as many bullets out in the same time, and deals a lot more damage. Unless you really can't deal with the scope and want the iron sights, there is no reason to use an ACR over the standard. CR is pretty much the only weapon I use, I have it almost maxed (fitting optimization is still 4). I would hate to see my favorite weapon completely nerf'd to ****, but I just can't say I fully agree with the way it is.

Stupid Blueberry Hyasyoda Terrestrial Acquisitions Firm 600	Posted - 2014.11.20 11:09:00 - [31] - Quote xAckie wrote: Why do people use CR? Cause everyone is stacking armour. Change that meta. And everyone will change weapon. Stop ignoring this guy, please. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Haajakin Kalen.
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 351	Posted - 2014.11.20 11:25:00 - [32] - Quote The answer is in the thread I posted earlier I was trying to stay somewhat on topic here. In order to change the meta they would have to give shields a similar capacity to armor which would be a poor choice instead of balancing one weapon. It would require generalization of shields and armor killing the uniqueness of ck/gk and dumbing down the game. It would also require every weapon to be re balance because profile values would change across the board completely destroying the progress the devs have made. The Impossible Dream-Wizard Talk @MMoMerc
The Master Race Immortal Guides 355	Posted - 2014.11.20 11:25:00 - [33] - Quote The answer is in the thread I posted earlier I was trying to stay somewhat on topic here. In order to change the meta without raping ak/gk they would have to give shields a similar capacity to armor which would be a poor choice instead of balancing one weapon. It would require generalization of shields and armor killing the uniqueness of ck/gk and dumbing down the game. It would also require every weapon to be re balance because profile values would change across the board completely destroying the progress the devs have made. The Impossible Dream-Wizard Talk @MMoMerc
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5168	Posted - 2014.11.20 12:48:00 - [34] - Quote Blueprint For Murder wrote: The answer is in the thread I posted earlier I was trying to stay somewhat on topic here. In order to change the meta without raping ak/gk they would have to give shields a similar capacity to armor which would be a poor choice instead of balancing one weapon. It would require generalization of shields and armor killing the uniqueness of ck/gk and dumbing down the game. It would also require every weapon to be re balance because profile values would change across the board completely destroying the progress the devs have made. No, It would require the playerbase to realize that there is more than one way to play. Shields are already viable. The fact that no one seems to recognize or accept this is not the fault of the CR. It's the fault of map design and the desire to always dive in close and brawl. Most FPS gamers are conditioned by the FPS game industry to favor the in close kill. They are also conditioned to rage about how shotguns are OP from three meters away. OHK??? NO SKILL SCRUB GUN! Proceeds to try and use shotgun. Fails. Gets thrashed by shotgun. OHK??? NO SKILL SCRUB GUN! EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 353	Posted - 2014.11.20 12:55:00 - [35] - Quote You could use the info from the other thread, but since the info doesn't really matter to you. Go ahead and give me your magic fit that defies math and I will give you the calculations for it or even better please prove me wrong I welcome the though of it. The Impossible Dream-Wizard Talk @MMoMerc
The Master Race Immortal Guides 355	Posted - 2014.11.20 12:55:00 - [36] - Quote You could use the info from the other thread, but since the info doesn't really matter to you. Go ahead and give me your magic fit that defies math and I will give you the calculations for it or even better please prove me wrong I welcome the thought of it. The Impossible Dream-Wizard Talk @MMoMerc
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5169	Posted - 2014.11.20 13:00:00 - [37] - Quote Blueprint For Murder wrote: You could use the info from the other thread, but since the info doesn't really matter to you. Go ahead and give me your magic fit that defies math and I will give you the calculations for it or even better please prove me wrong I welcome the thought of it. Given the CR is meant to chop armor and just about everyone is running armor and getting chopped up I'd say working as intended. Ive almost completely swapped to cal/min fits. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 353	Posted - 2014.11.20 13:02:00 - [38] - Quote Listen do the math yourself if you don't believe me... I am pretty sure most people duel tank anyway. The Impossible Dream-Wizard Talk @MMoMerc
The Master Race Immortal Guides 355	Posted - 2014.11.20 13:02:00 - [39] - Quote Listen do the math yourself if you don't believe me... I am pretty sure most people duel tank anyway... and as if it wasn't obvious by the over performance of projectile weapons. The Impossible Dream-Wizard Talk @MMoMerc
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5170	Posted - 2014.11.20 13:47:00 - [40] - Quote Blueprint For Murder wrote: Listen do the math yourself if you don't believe me... I am pretty sure most people duel tank anyway... and as if it wasn't obvious by the over performance of projectile weapons. I don't dual tank on any suit. I have found doing so handicaps more than helps. And projectiles aren't overperforming. They are meant to kill armor. 80% of the dropsuits I see are amarr or gallente unless they're scouts. Projectiles are most effective against these suits. The exception comes when shield suits try to brawl. Since the EHP is lower overall they die fast because you cannot recover fast enough in CQC to make up for the buffer that armor has. When shield suits are used as intended in skirmish and long range combat they excel. But when most blue and red dots are using armor suits with armor destroying weapons the numbers skew, especially with the recent RR nerfs. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.

Finn Colman Immortal Guides 60	Posted - 2014.11.20 15:11:00 - [41] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: I don't dual tank on any suit. I have found doing so handicaps more than helps. And projectiles aren't overperforming. They are meant to kill armor. 80% of the dropsuits I see are amarr or gallente unless they're scouts. Projectiles are most effective against these suits. The exception comes when shield suits try to brawl. Since the EHP is lower overall they die fast because you cannot recover fast enough in CQC to make up for the buffer that armor has. When shield suits are used as intended in skirmish and long range combat they excel. But when most blue and red dots are using armor suits with armor destroying weapons the numbers skew, especially with the recent RR nerfs. We won't even discuss how mist cal/min players rush into close combat with the enthusiasm of an amarr sentinel. I remember having to get used to the fact that, as someone who exclusively uses Min suits (mostly 'cause they're fast), I could not simply go head to head with most enemies. I actually found that I performed better when I traded some shield extenders and armor plates for kincats, shield energizers, and shield regulators. I had to outwit my opponents rather than outgun them for the most part, and I would pop in and out of cover very quickly. My enemies don't regen the same amount that I do when by the time that I pop back out. Rinse, repeat, and eventually they go down. Given, there is usually at least one smart red who figures out that they should just flush me out of cover. The moment they do that I have the choice either to run and possibly get away (or more likely, get gunned down), or to stay and let them destroy me nearly 100% of the time. Needless to say, I run every time that a such an enemy appears. Fact is though, most people follow EHP > all else. The few of us that wise up enough to stray from this idea aren't really representative of the whole. Most people just tank EHP as much as they can, unless they dedicate their fit to a specific role (eg. scan-tower scouts, logis, etc.). When using something in a way that it is not optimized for, it will tend to be less effective than something that is optimized for that purpose, and people generally aren't smart enough to realize this. Personally I feel that I see a fairly balanced number of each weapon except the Plasma Rifle. The little Min with the little voice.


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