DUST Search - It's time to remove cloaks from the game

One Eyed King wrote:

Zatara Rought wrote:

One Eyed King wrote:

While I like the idea of a delay, I think a good 1 second where a scout is fully visible before they are able to use a weapon is plenty.

Anything more, and you make it too much of a liability. Remember, cloaks are not by and large completely invisible, whatever any of your half thunderbolt video making CPM brethren might say.

If a cloaked scout is spotted and engaged, 3 seconds is WAAAAY to long for them to return fire. Especially considering in such an instance they are already at a significant HP advantage. One second is already well beyond the TTK for most, if not all, dampened scouts.

Uncloaked =/= Visible

It would be a liability for offensive combat purposes. But for recon and the like it'd be fine.

And if you do get seen and engaged as a scout..you just run...that's precisely what happens in game in most situations.

When you are caught in the open, without any cover to run to, it is more a matter of desperation. It would be nice if we could speed tank and maybe be a little more evasive in the open, but I don't think that is a possibility.

I don't get where you are going with the uncloaked does =/= visible, can you elaborate?

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NextDark Knight Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 593	Posted - 2014.11.13 01:00:00 - [61] - Quote Hmm.. Maybe you can add a drone to fly behind a player for a 3rd person view.. Might help some players and put drones in the game. Yeah, +1 for cloakie tanks :) Over 60+ Million SP and full proto in all Caldari Suits. No matter how hard CCP tries Dust just won't die on PS3/Xbox.
Lynn Beck Delta Vanguard 6 2212	Posted - 2014.11.13 01:02:00 - [62] - Quote Sure and while we're at it, remove MInmatar Scouts. They're not scouts, they're assassins, something everyone explicitly hates in scouts. Meanwhile in HAWKEN... Scout class has rocket launcher and Heavy class Shotgun. Meanwhile in Star Wars Battlefront 2... Bothans have cloak, flamethrower and remote explosives. Meanwhile in Crysis.... Meanwhile in Mechwarrior.... Meanwhile... In all seriousness, the Cloak is just not performing as intended, and as such is being repurposed to fit said role. The intended purpose of Clack was "an insertion tool, to get a scout reliably within range, or to traverse open terrain." Currently it performs that admirably, however there is not enough drawbacks/limitations to limit the "instashotgunfromclack" gameplay that is going on now. General John Ripper -BAM! I'm Emeril Lagasse. This message was approved by the 'Nobody Loved You' Foundation
Zindorak Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 1279	Posted - 2014.11.13 01:14:00 - [63] - Quote Lets remove the mexicans from the game, im tired of their lag. Lol no ok removing cloaks is as stupid as banning mexicans from the game Pokemon master and Tekken Lord Gk0 Scout yay :)
Operative 1174 Uuali The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 64	Posted - 2014.11.13 01:24:00 - [64] - Quote TooMany Names AlreadyTaken wrote: I don't care if they're cloaked or not, I can still see them. Fix your eyesight. I can also hear them, get better headphones. If you listen carefully, you can hear them walking around. BS arguement under the circumstances of this game. I'm better than laser focused; I'm hybrid focused.
Operative 1174 Uuali The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 64	Posted - 2014.11.13 01:25:00 - [65] - Quote Mossellia Delt wrote: Sneaking up? Someones not running a scanner BS arguement under the circumstances of this game. I'm better than laser focused; I'm hybrid focused.
Protocake JR USA Caucasians 1590	Posted - 2014.11.13 01:41:00 - [66] - Quote Zindorak wrote: Lets remove the mexicans from the game, im tired of their lag. Lol no ok removing cloaks is as stupid as banning mexicans from the game Away with the illegals!!!!
Zatara Rought Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4452	Posted - 2014.11.13 01:58:00 - [67] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: Zatara Rought wrote: One Eyed King wrote: While I like the idea of a delay, I think a good 1 second where a scout is fully visible before they are able to use a weapon is plenty. Anything more, and you make it too much of a liability. Remember, cloaks are not by and large completely invisible, whatever any of your half thunderbolt video making CPM brethren might say. If a cloaked scout is spotted and engaged, 3 seconds is WAAAAY to long for them to return fire. Especially considering in such an instance they are already at a significant HP advantage. One second is already well beyond the TTK for most, if not all, dampened scouts. Uncloaked =/= Visible It would be a liability for offensive combat purposes. But for recon and the like it'd be fine. And if you do get seen and engaged as a scout..you just run...that's precisely what happens in game in most situations. When you are caught in the open, without any cover to run to, it is more a matter of desperation. It would be nice if we could speed tank and maybe be a little more evasive in the open, but I don't think that is a possibility. I don't get where you are going with the uncloaked does =/= visible, can you elaborate? If you get caught in the open..delay or no delay you're ****** unless you close the distance or win a strafe battle. As for the uncloaked =/= visible, what i mean is exactly what i said. Just because you're uncloaked doesn't mean you can't be in cover, unscanned, out of someone's FoV. I never saw roner, or fusion, or catdog, or frost kitty, but they didn't have cloaks. Cloaks should not be offensive combat oriented. B3RT > PFBHz > TEAM > MHPD > IMPS > FA They call me ~Princess Zatata~ Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought
Spaceman-Rob Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 603	Posted - 2014.11.13 02:02:00 - [68] - Quote LUGMOS wrote: Spaceman-Rob wrote: sneaking up on us unseen and shooting us in the back. Tell me again; how is the cloak the problem here? Because without that bloody cloak they wouldn't be able to seek up on me. Don't any of you remember what it was like before cloaks, are your memories that short? we never had this problem before.
KING CHECKMATE Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 5866	Posted - 2014.11.13 02:04:00 - [69] - Quote STOP.FEEDING.IT. The best Damage mod is a HEADSHOT....
Spaceman-Rob Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 603	Posted - 2014.11.13 02:15:00 - [70] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: STOP.FEEDING.IT. Can't wait to see you in game, jump in your squad and call you out for being a ****. I take it you use the shotgun cloak combo and that's why you keep calling me a troll.

Mobius Wyvern Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 5429	Posted - 2014.11.13 02:23:00 - [71] - Quote Mossellia Delt wrote: Sneaking up? Someones not running a scanner Scanners were nerfed at the request of Scouts who claimed that the buffed scanner stats would render them useless. Now you still need a Proto Scanner on a Gallente Logi just to find a Scout running a single Dampener. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 264	Posted - 2014.11.13 02:24:00 - [72] - Quote They completely broke them for any scout trying to be sneaky so they might as well get rid of them. The only thing cloaks accomplish now is killing off their player base... they are about to lose one more. The Impossible Dream and Wizard Talk
Forlorn Destrier Havok Dynasty 2972	Posted - 2014.11.13 02:45:00 - [73] - Quote Spaceman-Rob wrote: I think we can all agree that we've had enough of shotgun scouts sneaking up on us unseen and shooting us in the back. Bringing cloaks to Dust was a big mistake and they must go. Sign below and leave a comment if you agree. Troll post is troll. EDIT: to paraphrase a catchphrase - "Your lack of adaptability does not constitute an emergency for me" I am the Forgotten Warhorse, the Lord of Lightning
Henchmen21 Planet Express LLC 1104	Posted - 2014.11.13 02:49:00 - [74] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: Henchmen21 wrote: Apothecary Za'ki wrote: Spaceman-Rob wrote: I think we can all agree that we've had enough of shotgun scouts sneaking up on us unseen and shooting us in the back. Bringing cloaks to Dust was a big mistake and they must go. Sign below and leave a comment if you agree. leave them with the cloak.. but replace the light weapon slot with sidearm slot. I ran across a dual light weapon scout the other day, it was quite effective I'll have to admit. The only suit that can use two light weapons are Commandos. There is no dual light weapon scout. Oh didn't catch that, I meant dual sidearm. Your game f'ing sucks, but I'll still play it, damn you! Turns out I wont.
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 5828	Posted - 2014.11.13 02:55:00 - [75] - Quote Henchmen21 wrote: One Eyed King wrote: Henchmen21 wrote: Apothecary Za'ki wrote: Spaceman-Rob wrote: I think we can all agree that we've had enough of shotgun scouts sneaking up on us unseen and shooting us in the back. Bringing cloaks to Dust was a big mistake and they must go. Sign below and leave a comment if you agree. leave them with the cloak.. but replace the light weapon slot with sidearm slot. I ran across a dual light weapon scout the other day, it was quite effective I'll have to admit. The only suit that can use two light weapons are Commandos. There is no dual light weapon scout. Oh didn't catch that, I meant dual sidearm. A lot of scouts do actually run them. I use NKs, and use them in my primary slot, as do a lot of other knifers. I like having the flexibility to do so, but unlike others, wouldn't want to force people into the same play style by replacing the light weapons slot with another side arm slot. Thunderbolt. verb and noun. "James thunderbolted in his pants." "I lit a bag of thunderbolt on fire on CCP's doorway"
Powerh8er The Rainbow Effect 518	Posted - 2014.11.13 02:58:00 - [76] - Quote Getting ****** in the arse by scouts only hurts when they use remotes or shotguns. cloaks can stay, nerf shotguns and remotes.
Mr Machine Guns 926	Posted - 2014.11.13 02:59:00 - [77] - Quote maybe instead of getting rid the cloak you bring back the ability to scan 360 degrees
LAVALLOIS Nash QcGOLD 284	Posted - 2014.11.13 03:01:00 - [78] - Quote Cloaks are just another thing that hobbles Dust from ever reaching potential. All you people hoping for a PS4 port can forget about it. Consoles are for the casual market, and casuals are scared off by cloak users. Where do you find hardcore I-must-have-success-at-any-price-or-my-life-isnt-worth-living types? On PC of course. Dust is already a hard game to learn. The maps are vast and unintuitive, theres a million different fittings and combinations, squads of vets who spend all day wielding Sentinel and Scout *K.0 proto fits vs new players in milita gear. On top of that, there are also invisible players who come along and kill people doing the most inoffensive things, like resupplying on a hive or manning a turret. So should cloaks be removed? No, but as long as they stay, you should expect Dust/Legion to never reach its potential. Think about it. Lets say PvE happens in Legion. What will new players play? Fair and balanced PvE, or invisible douchebag vets shooting you in the back? Ive seen it happen in other games. PvE becomes the majority because PvP gets too frustrating.
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 265	Posted - 2014.11.13 03:23:00 - [79] - Quote LAVALLOIS Nash wrote: Cloaks are just another thing that hobbles Dust from ever reaching potential. All you people hoping for a PS4 port can forget about it. Consoles are for the casual market, and casuals are scared off by cloak users. Where do you find hardcore I-must-have-success-at-any-price-or-my-life-isnt-worth-living types? On PC of course. Dust is already a hard game to learn. The maps are vast and unintuitive, theres a million different fittings and combinations, squads of vets who spend all day wielding Sentinel and Scout *K.0 proto fits vs new players in milita gear. On top of that, there are also invisible players who come along and kill people doing the most inoffensive things, like resupplying on a hive or manning a turret. So should cloaks be removed? No, but as long as they stay, you should expect Dust/Legion to never reach its potential. Think about it. Lets say PvE happens in Legion. What will new players play? Fair and balanced PvE, or invisible douchebag vets shooting you in the back? Ive seen it happen in other games. PvE becomes the majority because PvP gets too frustrating. There is a bit of a learning curve for this game, but it is by no means that encumbering. What does encumber is that you have to learn to exploit in order to play it which along with the imbalances kills any real strategic or RP aspects of the game. Strategy: exploit MM - Strategy: OHK player - Strategy: Highest Range/Dps Weapon - Strategy: turn off ps4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tG-7RutsoEk I am done playing this piece of trash game from now on I am a red line sniper. The Impossible Dream and Wizard Talk
Joel II X Bacon with a bottle of Quafe 4549	Posted - 2014.11.13 03:26:00 - [80] - Quote Mossellia Delt wrote: Sneaking up? Someones not running a scanner No Margin of Error on a cloaked scout is hilarious, even if they run away. Am I the only one who thinks this?

Joel II X Bacon with a bottle of Quafe 4550	Posted - 2014.11.13 03:31:00 - [81] - Quote LAVALLOIS Nash wrote: Cloaks are just another thing that hobbles Dust from ever reaching potential. All you people hoping for a PS4 port can forget about it. Consoles are for the casual market, and casuals are scared off by cloak users. Where do you find hardcore I-must-have-success-at-any-price-or-my-life-isnt-worth-living types? On PC of course. Dust is already a hard game to learn. The maps are vast and unintuitive, theres a million different fittings and combinations, squads of vets who spend all day wielding Sentinel and Scout *K.0 proto fits vs new players in milita gear. On top of that, there are also invisible players who come along and kill people doing the most inoffensive things, like resupplying on a hive or manning a turret. So should cloaks be removed? No, but as long as they stay, you should expect Dust/Legion to never reach its potential. Think about it. Lets say PvE happens in Legion. What will new players play? Fair and balanced PvE, or invisible douchebag vets shooting you in the back? Ive seen it happen in other games. PvE becomes the majority because PvP gets too frustrating. Um, consoles aren't exclusive to the console market, just as Dust as is infested with casuals (mostly due to the fact that it's F2P), we have a small community of 'hardcore' players. That's like saying, "PC are for the white collared gentlemen because they all work in cubicles."
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 10229	Posted - 2014.11.13 03:32:00 - [82] - Quote Lynn Beck wrote: Sure and while we're at it, remove MInmatar Scouts. They're not scouts, they're assassins, something everyone explicitly hates in scouts. Meanwhile in HAWKEN... Scout class has rocket launcher and Heavy class Shotgun. Meanwhile in Star Wars Battlefront 2... Bothans have cloak, flamethrower and remote explosives. Meanwhile in Crysis.... Meanwhile in Mechwarrior.... Meanwhile... In all seriousness, the Cloak is just not performing as intended, and as such is being repurposed to fit said role. The intended purpose of Clack was "an insertion tool, to get a scout reliably within range, or to traverse open terrain." Currently it performs that admirably, however there is not enough drawbacks/limitations to limit the "instashotgunfromclack" gameplay that is going on now. Precisely this. CCP Rattati is also looking into the possibility of extending the decloak delay to at least 1 second so that we can be sure there is enough to keep the scout from instantly firing the shotgun upon decloaking. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Lynn Beck Delta Vanguard 6 2213	Posted - 2014.11.13 03:38:00 - [83] - Quote Spaceman-Rob wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: STOP.FEEDING.IT. Can't wait to see you in game, jump in your squad and call you out for being a ****. I take it you use the shotgun cloak combo and that's why you keep calling me a troll. As a matter of fact, he's a Caldari Assault with a highly "ow" tastic Rail Rifle. Suck on those, loser. General John Ripper -BAM! I'm Emeril Lagasse. This message was approved by the 'Nobody Loved You' Foundation
Killar-12 The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 3411	Posted - 2014.11.13 03:38:00 - [84] - Quote Rob, you're shitting up the forums, that's my job. http://evil-guide.tripod.com/
SILENTSAM 69 SONS of LEGION RISE of LEGION 730	Posted - 2014.11.13 03:41:00 - [85] - Quote If anything the cloak needs to be improved. It is far too easy to see a cloaked person. It doesn't matter what race or abilities, the bright shimmer is very obvious to see. Cloaked scouts are quite easy to kill since I always get the first few shots before they can uncloak and begin to fire. Make the shimmer less bright and obvious to see. Hell even snipers can just pick them off as they run across the field. If you think the shimmer is not bright then play with your screen settings.
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 265	Posted - 2014.11.13 03:47:00 - [86] - Quote The delay doesn't matter because scouts are the leaders in dampening it is the reason scouts can opt to not use the cloaks at all. The difference is being actually and figuratively invisible which is no difference at all merely semantics. The Impossible Dream and Wizard Talk
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 10230	Posted - 2014.11.13 04:00:00 - [87] - Quote Blueprint For Murder wrote: The delay doesn't matter because scouts are the leaders in dampening it is the reason scouts can opt to not use the cloaks at all. The difference is being actually and figuratively invisible which is no difference at all merely semantics. A low enough dps that prey gets a chance to react is what needs to happen. I would rather see the delay removed and something like 90% dmg reduction when firing from cloak field that way scouts get a chance to expose themselves instead of just waiting .33 or 1sec. to ohk someone not that this would really addresses the issue either. And that is why EWAR being looked into by CCP Rattati and his team. He's already hosting a topic on it. The EWAR changes along with the decloak delay will go a long way in improving the game. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Dusters Blog Galactic News Network 764	Posted - 2014.11.13 13:44:00 - [88] - Quote the cloak needs three things to balance it out 1) cloak disrupted if cloaked suit takes weapon damage. 2) louder sound when cloaking/uncloaking. 3) mandatory cool-down time for uncloaking early The PS2 Whiteboard Project https://docs.google.com/document/d/14yCg0oUUyqJUTCSzIRx4z_dhS1aXHbubI0Hb3H6x5Is/edit
Mex-0 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 151	Posted - 2014.11.13 21:08:00 - [89] - Quote I love how the people whining about scouts are those who have never played as them. I used the bolt pistol before it was (OP) cool.
Vesta Opalus Bloodline Rebellion Capital Punishment. 177	Posted - 2014.11.13 21:33:00 - [90] - Quote Spaceman-Rob wrote: I think we can all agree that we've had enough of shotgun scouts sneaking up on us unseen and shooting us in the back. Bringing cloaks to Dust was a big mistake and they must go. Sign below and leave a comment if you agree. Im a pretty big critic of how cloaking and dampening works in this game, but I dont think they should be removed. I think we need an actual counter to the cloak/dampening combo implemented in the game. Also I think the graphical effect on the cloak needs to be made more consistent so certain lighting doesnt make it horribly obvious and some lighting doesnt make it completely invisible. If we're never going to get that counter though, yeah as a second option I'd rather not have cloaks in the game.



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