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Thumb Green
Raymond James Corp
1704
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Posted - 2014.11.12 17:53:00 -
[31] - Quote
People just need to stop fcking worrying about the redline and the cowards that hide in it. The most they are is a nuisance
Zatara Rought wrote:
Addressing fixes to the redline system to Soraya is pointless.
He doesn't see it as a problem worthy of improvement.
Because it isn't.
I'm surprised Maynard hasn't been assassinated yet.
Join us in our Pumpkin Crushing
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jace silencerww
Krullefor Organization
Minmatar Republic
84
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Posted - 2014.11.12 18:09:00 -
[32] - Quote
Fizzer XCIV wrote:The further into the redline someone is, they less damage they should do.
If someone is 100m into the redline, they should only be doing about 50% damage.
But if they are only 20m in there, its probably okay that they do 100%.
I had the same idea but it was only to snipers and large rail turrets. the reason being people need a way to fight out of your redline. so make a orange zone that is from your redline and goes out 30 meters & reds are shooting from this zone they are doing less damage as well. |
Vrain Matari
Mikramurka Shock Troop
Minmatar Republic
2306
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Posted - 2014.11.12 18:28:00 -
[33] - Quote
When we have Discussions about redline mechanics we have three separate topics that all get lumped under 'redline':
Enemy Redline Mechanics
Meant to stop enemy camping friendly back spawn point. Proposed fix: Ghost Kaiser's works perfectly: Friendly MCC starts bombarding the enemy when they encroach into the redline. Would also like to add to this several small, medium and large hardened AV and AI high-scan-precision medium-range turrets meant to protect the deeper redline. Maybe turrets with permanent auto-repair built in.
The bombardment would be a low-to-medium damage wide area effect meant to make life uncomfortable and shortish for enemy mercs pressing into the redline, but such that a fast scout could still go deep if they were set up for it, say maybe 30 hp/s. Also include the Mass Driver shaking effect to kitten up peeps aiming. With the right fit this bombardment damage could be tanked, but aiming would still be problematic, and for fast tanky mercs or vehicles going going deeper they'd have the turrets waiting to greet them.
Ghost Kaiser make a good point, immersion is important. Both the bombardment and turret mechanics maintain immersion and are hot-fixable. They are actually the kind of thing the MMC Commander would have done.
Friendly Redline Mechanics
Meant to encourage mercs' participation in battles. Many other systems influence a player's decision to stay in the redline(matchmaking, tiers, ISK payouts, WP payouts, passive sp dole, etc.). These systems are not good or bad - the ultimate answer here is how do we make the game more enjoyable/rewarding/addictive to play so that players don't hide behind the redline's skirts? Carrot and stick mechanics will work for this if we can't come up with a brilliant piece of game design. Rattai has already taken the first crude steps by doubling WP payouts and halving the passive in-match sp dole(that the CCP mommy-state imposed on us without consultation and which has done untold damage to this game).
However, sniping at range can be a viable tactical choice for infantry or vehicle and can also contribute to a win when done right so we have to be careful.
My proposed answer is a danger-pay bonus: mercs fighting outside of the redline get bonuses to their WP and ISK payouts. Redline fighters still get rewarded for their kills, but mercs doing mid and close range work get rewarded more. If that sniper wants the bigger payout he has to come out of the redline. Let that redline sniping tank have 50 WP for a kill, but give the tank supporting infantry at a point 75 WP. I would actually like to see a more sophisticated mechanic than this but we're hotfixing here so this'll have to do.
One other small tweak: no passive sp for mercs in the redline. On the battlefield yes, ok, include some passive but in the redline absolutely nothing. This means if you're in the redline you earn your keep by killing or you earn nothing at all.
Camped Redline Exit Mechanics
For experienced mercs it can be difficult and expensive to get out of the redline but we can do it: a cloaked damped uplink scout plus some patience and luck will get the job done, but it might take so long that there's no hope of turning the match around. Also wrt getting out of redline using a cloaked uplinked scout: it sure is nice having 50 million sp, maxxed cores and proto suit skills: this scenario is not especially realistic for a new player, so what can they do? Spawn an expensive LAV and head out on a suicide run?
I'd really like to see a 'glider suit' option for exiting the MMC and covering ground - prolly basic light frame only and with significant drawbacks(e.g. side arm only, ehp, fitting capacity) but with a mandatory pre-fitted uplink and codebreaker and enough glide range/control to give a redlined noob merc a viable but risky option and maybe the added bonus of forcefeeding them the concept of uplink deployment.
Another feature that would really allow players to turn a redline match around quickly: the ability to hack uplinks. Not sure if hot fixable - prolly not.
PSN: RationalSpark
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Leadfoot10
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
2138
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Posted - 2014.11.12 18:58:00 -
[34] - Quote
Anything we can do to stop the redline from being exploited as a safe zone is welcomed.
Sounds like an easy way to make it happen, although I'd be worried that all it would effectively do would be to push them into the field of battle for a second then running back into their safe zone in the redline (particularly for tanks).
Regardless, I'd support such a change. Liked. |
Thumb Green
Raymond James Corp
1704
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Posted - 2014.11.12 19:09:00 -
[35] - Quote
I find it interesting that players from corps associated with redlining are the most vehement about getting rid of it or otherwise making it easier to kill the people inside it (an observation that includes much more than this thread alone).
I'm surprised Maynard hasn't been assassinated yet.
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Zatara Rought
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
4426
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Posted - 2014.11.12 19:12:00 -
[36] - Quote
Thumb Green wrote:I find it interesting that players from corps associated with redlining are the most vehement about getting rid of it or otherwise making it easier to kill the people inside it (an observation that includes much more than this thread alone).
Trust me I was talking about this when I was in Subdreddit just the same. ;)
B3RT > PFBHz > TEAM > MHPD > IMPS > FA
They call me ~Princess Zatata~
Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought
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Thumb Green
Raymond James Corp
1704
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Posted - 2014.11.12 19:14:00 -
[37] - Quote
Zatara Rought wrote:Thumb Green wrote:I find it interesting that players from corps associated with redlining are the most vehement about getting rid of it or otherwise making it easier to kill the people inside it (an observation that includes much more than this thread alone). Trust me I was talking about this when I was in Subdreddit just the same. ;)
Which is also a corp that was associated with redlining.
I'm surprised Maynard hasn't been assassinated yet.
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Sev Alcatraz
685
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Posted - 2014.11.12 19:15:00 -
[38] - Quote
Your the last person who need a a say in anything fuk off
Disgruntled vet
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CUSE WarLord
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
101
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Posted - 2014.11.12 19:26:00 -
[39] - Quote
Zatara Rought wrote:What about 1 minute in the enemy redline?
Just wondering. shooting in and out of the redline doing only 20% damage is a great idea. make it so.
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Soldner VonKuechle
SAM-MIK
General Tso's Alliance
938
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Posted - 2014.11.12 19:26:00 -
[40] - Quote
How about a cpm response to either vellceolot or vrain mataris ideas. Since they're fairly balanced and could actually accomplish something.
Give me ammo types or give me burst RRs! Death is irrelevant.
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shaman oga
The Dunwich Horror
3143
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Posted - 2014.11.12 19:29:00 -
[41] - Quote
What about increase the damage of the null cannons if a team hold all of them?
(in skirmish of course)
Join channel: FW Kickstarter
More people in = more FW matches
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
5239
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Posted - 2014.11.12 19:31:00 -
[42] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:And people think I'm a troll.
Bravo though.
Reducing damage fired across the redline is a terrible idea.
It's weird that nearly everything scrubby you support and everything that hurts scrubby gameplay you are against.
I wish my avatar was Minmatar.
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
5239
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Posted - 2014.11.12 19:32:00 -
[43] - Quote
Apothecary Za'ki wrote:Vell0cet wrote:A better redline fix: make the redline timer function like the cloak. Increase the time in the enemy redline significantly to something like 1 minute, but you don't immediately reset your timer when you exit. Instead it slowly regens back (up to the max limit) at something like a 2:1 ratio (i.e. 2 minutes out of the redline will allow you to have 1 minute in). This timer persists through death, so suicide runs can't be spammed. Also you cannot recive reps and your armor/shields won't recharge when in the enemy redline.
This means you can run into the redline to take out that annoying sniper, rail tank, enemy installation, etc. but you can't camp the enemy's spawn in a sustained/coordinated manner. this will only encourage redline stomping INSIDE the redline.
exactly, which would be awesome
I wish my avatar was Minmatar.
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Thumb Green
Raymond James Corp
1705
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Posted - 2014.11.12 19:45:00 -
[44] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:
It's weird that nearly everything scrubby you support and everything that hurts scrubby gameplay you are against.
Thor Odinson42 wrote:Apothecary Za'ki wrote:Vell0cet wrote:A better redline fix: make the redline timer function like the cloak. Increase the time in the enemy redline significantly to something like 1 minute, but you don't immediately reset your timer when you exit. Instead it slowly regens back (up to the max limit) at something like a 2:1 ratio (i.e. 2 minutes out of the redline will allow you to have 1 minute in). This timer persists through death, so suicide runs can't be spammed. Also you cannot recive reps and your armor/shields won't recharge when in the enemy redline.
This means you can run into the redline to take out that annoying sniper, rail tank, enemy installation, etc. but you can't camp the enemy's spawn in a sustained/coordinated manner. this will only encourage redline stomping INSIDE the redline. exactly, which would be awesome
Want to talk about scrubby?
I'm surprised Maynard hasn't been assassinated yet.
Join us in our Pumpkin Crushing
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Joel II X
Bacon with a bottle of Quafe
4548
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Posted - 2014.11.12 19:48:00 -
[45] - Quote
Can we see our own redline?
Perhaps a green line? Seriously.
If you meant that that would work both ways, anyways. |
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
5240
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Posted - 2014.11.12 19:53:00 -
[46] - Quote
Thumb Green wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:
It's weird that nearly everything scrubby you support and everything that hurts scrubby gameplay you are against.
Thor Odinson42 wrote:Apothecary Za'ki wrote:Vell0cet wrote:A better redline fix: make the redline timer function like the cloak. Increase the time in the enemy redline significantly to something like 1 minute, but you don't immediately reset your timer when you exit. Instead it slowly regens back (up to the max limit) at something like a 2:1 ratio (i.e. 2 minutes out of the redline will allow you to have 1 minute in). This timer persists through death, so suicide runs can't be spammed. Also you cannot recive reps and your armor/shields won't recharge when in the enemy redline.
This means you can run into the redline to take out that annoying sniper, rail tank, enemy installation, etc. but you can't camp the enemy's spawn in a sustained/coordinated manner. this will only encourage redline stomping INSIDE the redline. exactly, which would be awesome Want to talk about scrubby?
Either let people hunt in the redline or accelerate the damage to the MCC when you have all points capped.
It's not fun when the only thing you can do is hide in a corner to avoid sniper fire or run along the redline hoping to see a target once in a while.
I wish my avatar was Minmatar.
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Thumb Green
Raymond James Corp
1706
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Posted - 2014.11.12 20:06:00 -
[47] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:
Either let people hunt in the redline or accelerate the damage to the MCC when you have all points capped.
It's not fun when the only thing you can do is hide in a corner to avoid sniper fire or run along the redline hoping to see a target once in a while.
You can already hunt in the redline. With a fast enough scout you can get in fairly far (can make it to enemy ground spawn on some maps) and back out. Accelerated damage to the MCC with all points capped is perfectly acceptable to me as it doesn't directly punish the team that's been redlined.
The second part of your comment has more to do with matchmaking than it does the redline.
I'm surprised Maynard hasn't been assassinated yet.
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Powerh8er
The Rainbow Effect
516
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Posted - 2014.11.12 20:33:00 -
[48] - Quote
How about if you stay too long in the red line some wild commisar bots come and execute you / or just simply the friendly turret installations targets you. |
Jacques Cayton II
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
1042
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Posted - 2014.11.12 20:45:00 -
[49] - Quote
Zatara Rought wrote:What about 1 minute in the enemy redline?
Just wondering.
No because sometimes one side is obviously winning and to save isk the redline IS the only chance. Unless their was a surrender option like a team vote then yes.
Also i love carpet
We fight for the future of the State not our
personal goals
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Zatara Rought
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
4433
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Posted - 2014.11.12 20:53:00 -
[50] - Quote
I think regardless of redline mechanics to combat one sided matches we need to implement a mercy timer.
If your team is redlined and you hold no objectives in a skirm you get a timer before you sound the retreat, surrender, and end the game.
B3RT > PFBHz > TEAM > MHPD > IMPS > FA
They call me ~Princess Zatata~
Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought
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NextDark Knight
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
593
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Posted - 2014.11.12 23:39:00 -
[51] - Quote
We should have reinforced group deploy and a escalation mechanic to allow for more reinforcements to be spawned into battle.
Once 6 players are ready to deploy a RDV will spawn in on the battlefield and deploy the troops together calculated away from the enemy.
For the escalation 4 to 6 additional players are deployed on the losing team to help turn things around..
Over 60+ Million SP and full proto in all Caldari Suits. No matter how hard CCP tries Dust just won't die on PS3/Xbox.
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Imp Smash
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
364
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Posted - 2014.11.13 00:08:00 -
[52] - Quote
Zatara Rought wrote:What about 1 minute in the enemy redline?
Just wondering.
Then there might as well be no redline at all?
I like the idea of shooting in/out of the redline making you do 20% damage. But then I imagine it would be impossible to fight your way out of the redline once redlined :(
Vell0cet wrote:Make the redline timer function like the cloak. Increase the time in the enemy redline significantly to something like 1 minute, but you don't immediately reset your timer when you exit. Instead it slowly regens back (up to the max limit) at something like a 2:1 ratio (i.e. 2 minutes out of the redline will allow you to have 1 minute in). This timer persists through death, so suicide runs can't be spammed. Also you cannot recive reps and your armor/shields won't recharge when in the enemy redline.
This means you can run into the redline to take out that annoying sniper, rail tank, enemy installation, etc. but you can't camp the enemy's spawn in a sustained/coordinated manner.
That's surprisingly reasonable. If you want to go stomp in the redline fine -- but you will be at a combat disadvantage. People will get impatient, invariably do this, get killed by the redlined team, which will give the team trying to break out of the redline a window of opportunity to make a push.
ESPECIALLY if you add a mechanic where if you get killed in the enemy redline you have a 30 sec revive timer. Redlined team can make it out, set up shop somewhere, and you have a battle again.
Nah -- it sounds good in theory -- but I'm sure it'll work terrible in real life. Still, earned a like from me! |
Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
10228
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Posted - 2014.11.13 00:13:00 -
[53] - Quote
If this is a brazen attempt of nerfing redline sniping, it's a ****-poor attempt if I ever saw one. The sniper range has been nerfed enough as it is to the point that I don't even need my proto Minscout very much anymore to reach a redline sniper unless it was in Manus Peak with the enemy on the south side mountain.
On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
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Soraya Xel
Abandoned Privilege
Top Men.
4705
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Posted - 2014.11.13 00:16:00 -
[54] - Quote
Thumb Green wrote:People just need to stop fcking worrying about the redline and the cowards that hide in it. The most they are is a nuisance Zatara Rought wrote:
Addressing fixes to the redline system to Soraya is pointless.
He doesn't see it as a problem worthy of improvement.
Because it isn't.
^^
THIS
Zatara Rought wrote:I think regardless of redline mechanics to combat one sided matches we need to implement a mercy timer.
If your team is redlined and you hold no objectives in a skirm you get a timer before you sound the retreat, surrender, and end the game.
As I've said before, this is something I can get behind.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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Symbioticforks
Pure Evil.
Capital Punishment.
933
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Posted - 2014.11.13 00:26:00 -
[55] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Crippling the redline mechanic is a horrifically bad idea, because the redline is actually an important mechanic. Redline problems are usually actually other problems, that led to redlining. Fixing those, as well as redline placement in some cases, would be far more beneficial. The actual mechanic of the redline works fine, and should not be changed. DarthPlagueis TheWise wrote:what if fatal absolution made 20% less isk in a pub than anyone else I support this idea.
Crippling snipers with a range reduction to put half a dirty band aid on the red line mechanic is a "horrifcally bad idea"
because I'll never shut up about it until snipers have their ranges back for role fulfillment.
Sniping Dust 514 (video series)
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Vell0cet
Vengeance Unbound
RISE of LEGION
2525
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Posted - 2014.11.13 00:37:00 -
[56] - Quote
Imp Smash wrote:Zatara Rought wrote:What about 1 minute in the enemy redline?
Just wondering. Then there might as well be no redline at all? I like the idea of shooting in/out of the redline making you do 20% damage. But then I imagine it would be impossible to fight your way out of the redline once redlined :( Vell0cet wrote:Make the redline timer function like the cloak. Increase the time in the enemy redline significantly to something like 1 minute, but you don't immediately reset your timer when you exit. Instead it slowly regens back (up to the max limit) at something like a 2:1 ratio (i.e. 2 minutes out of the redline will allow you to have 1 minute in). This timer persists through death, so suicide runs can't be spammed. Also you cannot recive reps and your armor/shields won't recharge when in the enemy redline.
This means you can run into the redline to take out that annoying sniper, rail tank, enemy installation, etc. but you can't camp the enemy's spawn in a sustained/coordinated manner. That's surprisingly reasonable. If you want to go stomp in the redline fine -- but you will be at a combat disadvantage. People will get impatient, invariably do this, get killed by the redlined team, which will give the team trying to break out of the redline a window of opportunity to make a push. ESPECIALLY if you add a mechanic where if you get killed in the enemy redline you have a 30 sec revive timer. Redlined team can make it out, set up shop somewhere, and you have a battle again. Nah -- it sounds good in theory -- but I'm sure it'll work terrible in real life. Still, earned a like from me!
Thanks. I think if we came up with enough ways to penalize the stompers, this could work well in practice. I like your idea of an increased respawn delay.
Best PvE idea ever!
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Quasar Storm
0uter.Heaven
282
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Posted - 2014.11.13 00:42:00 -
[57] - Quote
I like it. Will fix issues for tankers as well & make the redline a safe-zone only. The problem is, Most of the maps don't have very good terrain for snipers & the best mountains to get in position in happens to be in the redline most of the time. I used to be a tower sniper, So I'm sure other snipers have other spots. Snipers probably wouldn't use Officer Sniper Rifles unless they are drunk.
They should make the redline where you can't do damage shooting out of it, But players can't do damage shooting into it either. I mean it acts like a safe-haven zone for most already, Why not just complete that idealism? However if you chill in the redline & do not participate with your team's progression, You shouldn't make any WP & very minimal ISK. If you want to be rewarded, You must risk your assets & fight with your team.
ADS & Tank pilot.
Drifting on Stormy Seas.
The "Eh" Team
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LUGMOS
YELLOW JESUS EXP FORCE
793
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Posted - 2014.11.13 00:43:00 -
[58] - Quote
If it is possible to add a damage reduction to the redline, why not just make sniper rifles and railgun turrets do like zero damage from the redline? Then, you could even expend the redline some (only if at all necessary) without making redline sniping viable, but giving more of a buffer for people being stomped.
Quafe
A question doesn't always have an answer, but a problem does,
So what is DUST? A problem or a question?
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Kain Spero
Goonfeet
3789
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Posted - 2014.11.13 00:45:00 -
[59] - Quote
Zatara Rought wrote:What about 1 minute in the enemy redline?
Just wondering.
Yes please. If possible remove the redline from PC and maybe FacWar. Gotta stop holding hands somewhere.
Owner of Spero Escrow Services
Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
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