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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 9 post(s)
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 12844	Posted - 2014.10.29 14:20:00 - [31] - Quote Excellent post Rattati, exactly what me and many other people have been asking for! Also, if I am reading the data correctly, it looks like the Assault PR is still underperforming? It's quite a bit below average, it had a spike and then dropped down. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 12844	Posted - 2014.10.29 14:22:00 - [32] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: laser rifle is a suppression weapon Laser rifle is a killing rifle Saying it's not a general rifle because it's unique It's not suppression it's a killing tool just like every other rifle There seems to be a massive misunderstanding about what a suppression weapon is. There is no universe where a suppression weapon is not a killing weapon, or ineffective at doing so. The modern machinegun is amazingly tooled and optimized for killing. It is a suppression weapon. Suppression weapons are weapons designed to vomit out a continuous trail of death that presents an enemy with only two options: Hide or Die. Binary choice, no exceptions unless the suppression weapon operator is doing it wrong. Laser rifle outranges most weapons in the game and at long range is amazingly effective at getting across this message. If you don't dive for cover I'm melting your face off faster than the gumby with the assault rifle 20 yards away. Suppression weapons combine two traits: 1: range, because if the enemy is close he can overrun you. keep him at range. 2: Obnoxious killing power if you stand in the way. I actually find the laser rifle beautifully designed. The warm up period allows it to be a ludicrously damaging weapon if you don't dive for cover while not being overly effective at everything else. It gives your opponent a few moments to realize "oh **** I should probably dive for cover" instead of instantly melting you, like the laser at max power does. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1478	Posted - 2014.10.29 14:24:00 - [33] - Quote So what I'm seeing here, is that the rifle was roughly balanced and you decided to hit it with a harsh nerf anyways, because you didn't like the fact that it was being used in a game where the map design accommodates two things - long range poking or short-ish range brawling. Range is king in shooters and always has been unless map design puts you in knife-fights all the time. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 12844	Posted - 2014.10.29 14:27:00 - [34] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: So what I'm seeing here, is that the rifle was roughly balanced and you decided to hit it with a harsh nerf anyways, because you didn't like the fact that it was being used in a game where the map design accommodates two things - long range poking or short-ish range brawling. Range is king in shooters and always has been unless map design puts you in knife-fights all the time. Oh MINA, Arkena was right when he told me you are the most amusing poster on the forums! Here, have a cookie, you made me laugh. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1279	Posted - 2014.10.29 14:27:00 - [35] - Quote Daddrobit wrote: Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: I have no doubt that RR needed to be addressed. My point is that there may be serious design concerns that are making the weapon difficult to balance without fully painting into a corner similar to something like the LR. I do believe that the new amount of recoil is simply too high...it far exceeds any of the other weapons in this regard now. For the RR...higher recoil means more diffculty in applying it's already lowest in class DPS at it's optimal range and that doesn't strike me as a good thing. The problem is that almost anything done to lower perceived or real CQC effectiveness will also directly impact it's ability to engage at long range as well. Also, the recoil clearly feels much to high for the ARR if that is a short / mid-range oriented weapon. From what I hear, the hipfire seems a bit too out of whack in comparison to the other rifles. -However- CCP Rattati wrote: the Rail RifleGÇÖs Close Combat ability was reduced severely by increasing Kick and Charge-up Time, with no change to ADS Dispersion or Kick. This means that it's optimal range effectiveness has -not- been affected. Outside of 30-ish meters up to its effective of 100, the ADS should almost always be used and the recoil with operations up is completely manageable. 1) Not sure if you mean hip fire out of whack in terms of too good or too bad. One thing that does throw off CQC hipfire discussions is how damage per shot (alpha) effects this. My impression is the strongest asset in CQC the RR (and Breach AR for that matter has) is alpha damage. You have land few shots and the slow rate of fire lets you track the targets longer. 2) When using the RR at range it certainly can dominate in open terrain. The recoil is still quite noticable particularly when compared to other rifles. The weapon was designed for sustained long range fire and at range the combination of charge time and recoil both work to degrade the weapons ability to deliver it's lowest in-class level of DPS. That said, you are quite correct that ADS is the way to go with the weapon generally. My point is that it's a bit too similar to the LR to be a general use infantry weapon. . "Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero Skype: jaysyn.larrisen Twitter: @JaysynLarrisen
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1280	Posted - 2014.10.29 14:30:00 - [36] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: Maiden, the LR is not a general use rifle in any sense of the word. It does not generally get used it has very specific engagement ranges and lets be honest its not very popular because while it is an awesome weapon to use in very specific circumstances, it falls flat on its face when someone gets close or the type of level does not permit good positioning (Say indoors or in confined complexes). @ CCP - Awesome Dev blog. Its great that there are actual stats and graphs to back this all up. I always knew RR`s were the most used thing in pubs but I didn't realise it was quite like this. Hopefully we are getting closer to achieving balance. (Will the Combat Rifle be next?) If you insert "RR" for "LR" in your initial sentence you just described the RR quite accurately. "Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero Skype: jaysyn.larrisen Twitter: @JaysynLarrisen
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1479	Posted - 2014.10.29 14:41:00 - [37] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: It doesn't really matter though, no single rifle should be doing 50% of all Rifle kills. We could also just have nerfed damage until it was not as extremely good at all ranges, hurting the weapons primary function. I believe that if your game is designed in such a manner that one weapon is clearly the best suited to fighting at the most common engagement range, it should indeed be grabbing 50% of all kills. I am more than willing to agree that rail rifle prevalence was disproportionate and that part of the issue with it was that it performed equally across all races of suit. However these are not problems with the rail rifle in and of itself, but problems with overall game design. Can you provide data for how many kills rail rifles were getting 'per spawn' at ranges under 30m, compared to other weapons? Because it doesn't seem like the data you have supports the nerf that was made. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1281	Posted - 2014.10.29 14:43:00 - [38] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Tesfa Alem wrote: This is a bit of an eye opener and thanks for sharing. However, it still looks like a crucial element is missing, how rifles are being used in game. In my humble opinion, there is no reason for all ten rifles to be getting equal amounts of kills per spawn. Do you take into conideration for example usage and design philosophy first and see if the gun is overperforming or tweak the numbers to follow design philosphy afterwards? Using the Rail Rifle: Design to be a long range in line with caldari lore. Is there data to show that wow, the RR is getting alot of close range kills this is unusual for a longe range weapon? Or rather the RR is getting alot of kills everywhere lets nerf the CQC because its long range weapon? Before any proposal i'm sure you do need the stats to back you up. I'm curious as too what stats unrelated to kills are taken into consideration, also other factors such as ease of use, fitting costs, market purchases, damage output etc. By this reasoning its easy to see why shotguns remain untouched, a scout might one shot a medium frameor two/ three shot a heavy and get killed right afterwards by another scout, it might look just fine according to these metrics bu IMO unbalanced in terms of gameplay. It doesn't really matter though, no single rifle should be doing 50% of all Rifle kills. We could also just have nerfed damage until it was not as extremely good at all ranges, hurting the weapons primary function. CCP Rattati...I"m not sure I'm reading this with the intent you are trying to convey. To me, what you just said is that the reason for over (or even underpreformance) is irrelevant and that using nerfs and buffs to bring your usage percentages into your internal tolerance is your answer. I may be misreading your intent but that is what it sounds like. If I was reading it right...it seems a little short sighted or i really don't understand what you want the optimal % usage spread to be (i.e. 15% usage, +/- 2%). This also doesn't address that the nature of the game drives you to certain types of combat engagements to secure victory. Looking why things are outliers exist should be very important, perhaps as important as simply identifiing the outlier, because you may not acutally be solving the root problem. As to nerfing damage...I actually think you could make a good case for that. I honestly think the weapon usage concept wasn't on good ground and you are doing a solid job at working with it...it strikes me as one of the most difficult weapons to get into a sweet spot. "Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero Skype: jaysyn.larrisen Twitter: @JaysynLarrisen

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 9610	Posted - 2014.10.29 16:23:00 - [39] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: So what I'm seeing here, is that the rail rifle was roughly balanced and you decided to hit it with a harsh nerf anyways, because you didn't like the fact that it was being used in a game where the map design accommodates two things - long range poking or short-ish range brawling. Range is king in shooters and always has been unless map design puts you in knife-fights all the time. :narrows eyes: ...not sure if serious "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1479	Posted - 2014.10.29 16:26:00 - [40] - Quote ^Completely serious. There hasn't been any data provided that suggests that the RR was overperforming in CQC or that it was even getting a much much higher KDR than other weapons. Just a lot of data that says "people like using it". Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 9613	Posted - 2014.10.29 16:28:00 - [41] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Because it doesn't seem like the data you have supports the nerf that was made. I believe it does, and have made a detailed fact based argument to support it. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 9613	Posted - 2014.10.29 16:32:00 - [42] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: ^Completely serious. There hasn't been any data provided that suggests that the RR was overperforming in CQC or that it was even getting a much much higher KDR than other weapons. Just a lot of data that says "people like using it". lol, if it wasn't being used in CQC, why does an exclusive CQC nerf bother you, ADS wasn't touched. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1479	Posted - 2014.10.29 16:41:00 - [43] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: ^Completely serious. There hasn't been any data provided that suggests that the RR was overperforming in CQC or that it was even getting a much much higher KDR than other weapons. Just a lot of data that says "people like using it". lol, if it wasn't being used in CQC, why does an exclusive CQC nerf bother you, ADS wasn't touched. Because it paints it into a corner like the laser rifle, you are turning a racial servicemans weapon (a weapon that should be functional across all ranges) into a specialist weapon (like the laser or massdriver or PLC). You are dramatically and arbitrarily limiting a weapons ability to play the objective in skirmish or domination style matches, simply because it is 'used' more frequently than you think it should be. I'd still like to see data provided for KDA's at various ranges, if you actually have such information. I'll point you towards Jasyn Larrisen's posts because he's better at expressing the underpinning issues of this. There are so many better ways that you could have done this Rattati. I'm not saying that the weapon didn't need to be tweaked or that I want it completely undone - I'm saying that what was done is overdone. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 4140	Posted - 2014.10.29 16:43:00 - [44] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: ^Completely serious. There hasn't been any data provided that suggests that the RR was overperforming in CQC or that it was even getting a much much higher KDR than other weapons. Just a lot of data that says "people like using it". lol, if it wasn't being used in CQC, why does an exclusive CQC nerf bother you, ADS wasn't touched. Here's your tear vial Rattati. Go collect while they are still fresh. If you can't wow them with logic, then collect the prize. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Boot Booter Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 1004	Posted - 2014.10.29 16:45:00 - [45] - Quote Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: laser rife isn't a general use battle rifle Da fun it isn't it has the same abilities as all the other long range rifle lr performs the same role as rr tar and cr how is it not a rifle it has rifle in its name lol i don't see why ccp doesn't track it the lr is way more deadly than scr sniper rifle has rifle in its name.... is that a general use weapon as well? What defines general use ..how is rr a general use weapon but lr not..they cover the same range profiles and both kill efficiently The term general use can't refer to popular or sniper would be general use and lr not ..but in raw killing potential the lr equals every other rifle it's range profile equates to the rr ..it's viable in ar ranges but harder to use I don't see how laser rifle us not a general use rifle So explain to me how is lr not a general use rifle Dude its just not, the rifles are assault rifle, Combat rifle, scrambler rifle, and rail rifle, as well as all their beautiful variants (some of which I'm still waiting for!) . One major rifle type for each race. Furthermore we have other weaponry that was not included in those balancing charts and function as more "niche" weapons If you will; plasma cannon, mass driver, laser rifle, swarm launcher, and sniper rifle. I'm sure Mr Rattati looks at those too though, so don't worry. What happened to the repair tool glow? Why won't CCP answer? Conspiracy?
Boot Booter Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 1004	Posted - 2014.10.29 16:57:00 - [46] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: ^Completely serious. There hasn't been any data provided that suggests that the RR was overperforming in CQC or that it was even getting a much much higher KDR than other weapons. Just a lot of data that says "people like using it". lol, if it wasn't being used in CQC, why does an exclusive CQC nerf bother you, ADS wasn't touched. Because it paints it into a corner like the laser rifle, you are turning a racial servicemans weapon (a weapon that should be functional across all ranges) into a specialist weapon (like the laser or massdriver or PLC). You are dramatically and arbitrarily limiting a weapons ability to play the objective in skirmish or domination style matches, simply because it is 'used' more frequently than you think it should be. I'd still like to see data provided for KDA's at various ranges, if you actually have such information. I'll point you towards Jasyn Larrisen's posts because he's better at expressing the underpinning issues of this. There are so many better ways that you could have done this Rattati. I'm not saying that the weapon didn't need to be tweaked or that I want it completely undone - I'm saying that what was done is overdone. Let me just stop you there. "Because it paints it into a corner like the laser rifle, you are turning a racial servicemans weapon (a weapon that should be functional across all ranges)" Using this philosophy the rail rifle would function over the largest range compared to other rifles simply because it has a greater optimal range. Essentially saying anyone who uses the rail rifle gets to enjoy more functional range compared to other rifles. This was balanced initially through dps vs range however data shows that the rail rifle was still overperforming despite falling in line with the dps vs range equation. This essentially pointed to the fact that it was too easy to use. Following, to keep the weapon in line with lore, Rattati reduced it's CQC effectiveness. Other options could have been reduced dps, reduced ads effectiveness, etc. Be happy with what you got. What happened to the repair tool glow? Why won't CCP answer? Conspiracy?
Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command 812	Posted - 2014.10.29 17:09:00 - [47] - Quote Awesome data. Those graphs are informative and also nice to look at. Thanks for sharing. You didn't show any range data, so I'm not going to comment on that. But if you're worried that short range rifles are underused while long range rifles are overused you could adapt the DPS/range-ratio you used to align the rifles a few hotfixes ago. Maybe versatility is just more highly appreciated by the players than expected. On the other hand they say too many cooks spoil spoil the broth. I think in game design it's most important to have one person with a vision and a few other people to bounce ideas back and forth.
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1479	Posted - 2014.10.29 17:14:00 - [48] - Quote Boot Booter wrote: Let me just stop you there. "Because it paints it into a corner like the laser rifle, you are turning a racial servicemans weapon (a weapon that should be functional across all ranges)" Using this philosophy the rail rifle would function over the largest range compared to other rifles simply because it has a greater optimal range. Essentially saying anyone who uses the rail rifle gets to enjoy more functional range compared to other rifles. This was balanced initially through dps vs range however data shows that the rail rifle was still overperforming despite falling in line with the dps vs range equation. This essentially pointed to the fact that it was too easy to use. Following, to keep the weapon in line with lore, Rattati reduced it's CQC effectiveness. Other options could have been reduced dps, reduced ads effectiveness, etc. Be happy with what you got. I would have happily taken reduced DPS. I think that there's a lot of problems with the DPS vs Range scale. To change the direction of this discussion a little bit I think that due to the way this game has been designed, the rail rifle comes out as the clear option for anything that isn't 'short range' partially because it performs equally across all suits (unlike the scrambler rifle which should be the true top performer). If you look at a map like spine crescent a rail rifle user standing on either end of the bridge can still be in effective cover yet fire at the other end of the bridge or at the closest socket to them while most people who want to shoot at them have to close pretty big open stretches of ground. Other weapons can't do this - this points mostly to an issue with map design as most of the 'engagement' ranges in this game are suited well towards the rail rifle. Anything that ISNT suited to the rail rifle like the inner sockets of iron delta ends up being the playground of the HMG. The problem was never with the rail rifles CQC, but its range and the common engagement ranges of this game. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 9644	Posted - 2014.10.29 17:16:00 - [49] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: ^Completely serious. There hasn't been any data provided that suggests that the RR was overperforming in CQC or that it was even getting a much much higher KDR than other weapons. Just a lot of data that says "people like using it". lol, if it wasn't being used in CQC, why does an exclusive CQC nerf bother you, ADS wasn't touched. Because it paints it into a corner like the laser rifle, you are turning a racial servicemans weapon (a weapon that should be functional across all ranges) into a specialist weapon (like the laser or massdriver or PLC). You are dramatically and arbitrarily limiting a weapons ability to play the objective in skirmish or domination style matches, simply because it is 'used' more frequently than you think it should be. I'd still like to see data provided for KDA's at various ranges, if you actually have such information. I'll point you towards Jasyn Larrisen's posts because he's better at expressing the underpinning issues of this. There are so many better ways that you could have done this Rattati. I'm not saying that the weapon didn't need to be tweaked or that I want it completely undone - I'm saying that what was done is overdone. Just like the AR is painted into a corner by having very short range? Arbitrarily? It means "based solely on one's opinion", does this seem a very arbitrary process? "Used" more? No, it kills more. The Chart shows Kills, not Spawns. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound RISE of LEGION 2069	Posted - 2014.10.29 17:19:00 - [50] - Quote Once again, the ARR needs less hipfire kick. If its supposed to be the RR CQC option, then it does not perform its role properly at all. Reduce the kick, while at the same time reducing the range to 60m. Please Rattati, tell me your thoughts on these changes. Proof that Rattati/CCP do listen to the playerbase.

Gabriella Grey THE HANDS OF DEATH RUST415 203	Posted - 2014.10.29 17:20:00 - [51] - Quote MINA Longstrike You have to pay attention to what was done to rail rifles.... The assault rail rifle has taken charge as being the close combat variant and the normal rail rifle is now better suited for long range. Rattati is on the ball with this and couldn't be anymore right. Just as there are different type of assault rifles, scrambler rifles, and combat rifles so are they for rail rifles. Balance demands it so start making fittings that use the other type of rail rifle. Best regards! *Always Grey Skies* Leader of the Alpaca Commandos
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1479	Posted - 2014.10.29 17:24:00 - [52] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Just like the AR is painted into a corner by having very short range? Arbitrarily? It means "based solely on one's opinion", does this seem a very arbitrary process? "Used" more? No, it kills more. The Chart shows Kills, not Spawns. I've also strongly felt that the AR should have more range because it's currently stuck in the same playground as the HMG I have spoke openly about this whenever the idea of range as a gallente assault bonus has come up. The AR needs more range on just the base rifle. The chart has missed the key point of data that I've been asking for and that is what range are these kills occurring at. I'm fairly confident that you will see that most of the RR's kills happening at about 45-75m. It really seems like there are two options - Rail rifle for long ranges because standoff engagements can be forced, or HMG for short range because almost no other weapon can compare to its dps. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound RISE of LEGION 2069	Posted - 2014.10.29 17:26:00 - [53] - Quote Let me clarify some things about my opinions. When the RR received the 4x increase to hipfire kick, the ARR also received a 4x increase to hipfire kick. This is what my issue is. If this was an accident I'd like it fixed posthaste. If it was intentional, I'd like to know why so I can understand the reasoning better and can formulate a proper opinion on it. Proof that Rattati/CCP do listen to the playerbase.
Gabriella Grey THE HANDS OF DEATH RUST415 203	Posted - 2014.10.29 17:28:00 - [54] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: Once again, the ARR needs less hipfire kick. If its supposed to be the RR CQC option, then it does not perform its role properly at all. Reduce the kick, while at the same time reducing the range to 60m. Please Rattati, tell me your thoughts on these changes. Many of the proficient people in PC that use the assault rail rifle are swearing that it's fine and opening up other weapons access to be competitive. The biggest thing for the assault rail rifle would be if it had the long charge as the other variant has, but that is not the case. I will get on my Caldari account and test these things out for myself but I still value my sources as they are avid players looking for competitive balanced common ground across the game. *Always Grey Skies* Leader of the Alpaca Commandos
JIAF-PR 103	Posted - 2014.10.29 17:28:00 - [55] - Quote I take that is being discussed about weapons here to ask: about projectile weapons that was the change of -5% against shield and +10% against armor to -15% against shield and + 15% againts armor? not this supposed to be are very effective and powerful weapons like the Minmatar description says? Sorry for my English, JIAF-PR "Los grandes no son grandes sino porque estamos de rodillas. Levantémonos" GÇô Pedro Albizu Campos
Gabriella Grey THE HANDS OF DEATH RUST415 203	Posted - 2014.10.29 17:29:00 - [56] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Just like the AR is painted into a corner by having very short range? Arbitrarily? It means "based solely on one's opinion", does this seem a very arbitrary process? "Used" more? No, it kills more. The Chart shows Kills, not Spawns. I've also strongly felt that the AR should have more range because it's currently stuck in the same playground as the HMG I have spoke openly about this whenever the idea of range as a gallente assault bonus has come up. The AR needs more range on just the base rifle. The chart has missed the key point of data that I've been asking for and that is what range are these kills occurring at. I'm fairly confident that you will see that most of the RR's kills happening at about 45-75m. It really seems like there are two options - Rail rifle for long ranges because standoff engagements can be forced, or HMG for short range because almost no other weapon can compare to its dps. If that is done you are ignoring Laser weapons completely. We are trying to balance the game not keep the status quo of unbalance. *Always Grey Skies* Leader of the Alpaca Commandos
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound RISE of LEGION 2069	Posted - 2014.10.29 17:45:00 - [57] - Quote Gabriella Grey wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: Once again, the ARR needs less hipfire kick. If its supposed to be the RR CQC option, then it does not perform its role properly at all. Reduce the kick, while at the same time reducing the range to 60m. Please Rattati, tell me your thoughts on these changes. Many of the proficient people in PC that use the assault rail rifle are swearing that it's fine and opening up other weapons access to be competitive. The biggest thing for the assault rail rifle would be if it had the long charge as the other variant has, but that is not the case. I will get on my Caldari account and test these things out for myself but I still value my sources as they are avid players looking for competitive balanced common ground across the game. The ARR is supposed to be good in CQC, but it is not. This is my issue. Not only is my DPS lower than the other assault variants, but the kick means I have to stop shooting, charge back up, and then continue firing, lowering my damage output even more. I also want it to get a range reduction to 60m. The current 71 is too far for an assault weapon to be. It's 3m less than the base RR. EDIT: In any case, I'd like to hear it from Rattati what he thinks since he is the final authority on changes. Proof that Rattati/CCP do listen to the playerbase.
Gabriella Grey THE HANDS OF DEATH RUST415 203	Posted - 2014.10.29 17:52:00 - [58] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: Gabriella Grey wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: Once again, the ARR needs less hipfire kick. If its supposed to be the RR CQC option, then it does not perform its role properly at all. Reduce the kick, while at the same time reducing the range to 60m. Please Rattati, tell me your thoughts on these changes. Many of the proficient people in PC that use the assault rail rifle are swearing that it's fine and opening up other weapons access to be competitive. The biggest thing for the assault rail rifle would be if it had the long charge as the other variant has, but that is not the case. I will get on my Caldari account and test these things out for myself but I still value my sources as they are avid players looking for competitive balanced common ground across the game. The ARR is supposed to be good in CQC, but it is not. This is my issue. Not only is my DPS lower than the other assault variants, but the kick means I have to stop shooting, charge back up, and then continue firing, lowering my damage output even more. I also want it to get a range reduction to 60m. The current 71 is too far for an assault weapon to be. It's 3m less than the base RR. EDIT: In any case, I'd like to hear it from Rattati what he thinks since he is the final authority on changes. This could work for the weapon too. I'll post my insights on it in a bit. going to try the weapon out now. *Always Grey Skies* Leader of the Alpaca Commandos
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 9039	Posted - 2014.10.29 17:52:00 - [59] - Quote I appreciate the graphs and all, but as I said before (with Rattati noting himself) is that you can't gather stats that are fully representative of a weapon's effectiveness when the variant models cost significantly more ISK than the base models of the same tier. Amarr are the good guys Join "PIE Ground Control" for secure Amarr FW syncing and orbital support
Vesta Opalus Bloodline Rebellion Capital Punishment. 117	Posted - 2014.10.29 17:56:00 - [60] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: blah blah blah Please comment and give feedback Keep up the good work Rattati, its good to see balancing dust with a thoughtful consideration of actual data P.S. please fix the assault rail rifle so that the bullets end up where the sights point, not just under it.



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