Switching to fotm shouldn't be the reply, and if tankers died this fast I'm sure they'd rage.
There's a difference between having no chance of survival and having the skill to evade death.
If you lock onto me with swarms I have no hope of any skill based manouver helping me to escape. Swarms don't account for strafing, cover and all those cheap tricks we use to evade Fire... If swarms are coming I am 100% gonna die and that shouldn't be the case.... The av balance vs ads is badly broken with swarms, there is too much dmg potential with very little Isk loss and it's simply too easy to kill an ads

TTK on an ADS is identical to the TTK on an HAV.

I kill a python in 3 shots. I kill a gunnlogi in 3 shots. TTK is identical unless tye gunnlogi sacrifices a useful gun turret to spike their tank hard.

Same with an Incubus and madrugar. Three shots unless the driver forgoes a more useful main gun.

Are you saying the ADS needs to be more resilient and hard to kill than an HAV?

Serious question.

Also when I have two 5m SP assaults focus fire on my sentinel my max skill sentinel usually dies. Why should an ADS be different facing two enemy AV?

HAVs die by the numbers vs. Two AV with a level of haste that is amazing. When I pair off with another forge gunner even an overtanked HAV dies in around seven seconds.

Making ADS able to tank and deal with AV teams would actually make them more resilient than an HAV because of speed.

Teamwork is deadly. Tank drivers have learned that when an area has multiple AV it's time to be somewhere else immediately where there are not multiple AV.

Actually in my experience and after experimenting heavily it require two basic swarms to have the same chance of killing an ADS as a single advanced forge gun.

Not very likely unless you are hovering. When I ran my ADS fights with my minmando and basic swarms we calculated that it would take between six and eight shots to kill the ADS. Two swarmers would need to have proto skills to be at 1.4 second lock times.

Most players who moonlight AV stop at 3 or they don't go past 1. They just want the 4th shot and cheaper fitting.

The thing that kills most ADS pilots is the psychological need to hover. When you hover and simply hang out over a pack of infantry you set yourself in a position where any AV gunner can pretty much guarantee two hits before you can fully react.

Hovering over a sentinel isn't bright, but I don't see many ADS drivers doing that. But when they see infantry they immediately go into hover mode to farm kills.

There is no opening attack run. They don't do a run bombarding infantry then pulling away to see if swarms and forge guns have fired.

When they get over a pack of infantry they simply hang there until someone gets mad and tries to kill them.

When you're blasting ground troops do you sit there until AV arrives or are you picking off 1-3 targets then moving off before the inevitable rage respawns with AV weapons?

If you say you sit around until AV shows up then you are the type of pilot I live for. As AV I don't have to hunt you, chase you. I know where you are and where you will be.

The ADS pilots I can't drop are long gone by the time I get to their last location.

Kill a few infantry, then leave. Find another target area and kill a few more. Don't stick around and farm. If you farm then you will inevitably become part of the harvest. As much as the ADS still needs tweaks the mindset, tactics and methods need to change as well.

Right now he who has the initiative and the intel will almost slways win in AV/V. Dropship pilot habits mean that AV always has the intel. Change the habits and you change the equation.

The only thing tou need to stop a swarm lock is 150 meters of distance.

If you abuse this then forge guns are your sole worry.

ADS is in a bad place at the moment as the time to kill is way too short and the rate of fire nerf didn't help either but I've gotten used to it.

Idc what the trolls say, flying is hard and less rewarding than most other play styles
If I can go 40-0 in a scout, 40-0 in a tank....then why am I forced to die repeatedly in an ads that doesn't serve its purpose efficiently.... Swarms need a nerf or ads needs a buff, as proto av and proto ads It's too easy to knock out the ads alone, let alone combine with friendly tanks, fg, swarm launchers, ads and rail lavs

"14 potential AV"? At any given time, you're immune to all damage from 90% of the players on the field. If one or two go get an AV fit, you're still immune to most of the people on the field.

Meanwhile, all 16 players can kill the AV users.

The TTK of a Maxed Swarmer vs an ADS (assuming best fits) is:

• Python: 12.02s
• Incubus: 6.01s

*Assumes 0m away from Target

Notice that with a base speed of 50m/s, you can still escape the Swarmer's lock range in 3.5s, which is shorter than the TTK of any of the Dropships listed.

The Incubus may be much more susceptible to Swarms than the Python, but I don't see how this is a problem considering how Swarm Launchers are Explosives (-20/+20). That would be like a Shield Tanker trying to take on a SCR head-on as opposed to attacking it by surprise and wondering why you keep dying.

... going 40-0 with a scout, a heavy or a logi as long as those damn ADS pilots aren't able to. It's a really hipocritical idea that ground troops will always stick to.

To be fair, anyone and everyone can shoot back at a Scout, Heavy or Logi.

Not sure if you're the right guy to ask or not, but would increasing the ADS / DS acceleration or top speed help?

I'd like that, but probably not. It would just lead to more militia swarms complaining why their 0isk suit can't kill my 375k ADS.

Again, I'd like it, but probably not. Decreasing the homing would be better, rewards ADS who use cover to avoid fire.

The same is true of vehicles, every single player has free unlimited swarm missiles. Every player has acess to installations, militia tanks with militia railguns, militia kamikazee ships, militia heavy suits and militia forge guns.

SP cost 0

Anyone and everyone can shoot at vehicles.

[...]

If I can go 40-0 in a scout, 40-0 in a tank....then why am I forced to die repeatedly in an ads that doesn't serve its purpose efficiently.... Swarms need a nerf or ads needs a buff, as proto av and proto ads It's too easy to knock out the ads alone, let alone combine with friendly tanks, fg, swarm launchers, ads and rail lavs

The only thing that needs a buff is your ability to fit and fly Dropships.

As long as CCP listens to the so-called majority in the forums, which basically mean people who are too bad to actually play the game, things wont get better.

AS you can see, you posted something that was half-way ranty but in no way false and all you get is troll soup up the anus. Ignorance will always drive change, specially if they cry the hardest. Most ADS pilots actually prefer to play the game instead of being in the forums 24/7 so they will not be heard above all the **** most of these forum warriors crap through their mouths at a rate so fast you don't know how it's physically possible that their anus isn't vacuming all oxygen of the room they are sitting in...

The same is true of vehicles, every single player has free unlimited swarm missiles. Every player has acess to installations, militia tanks with militia railguns, militia kamikazee ships, militia heavy suits and militia forge guns.

SP cost 0

Anyone and everyone can shoot at vehicles.

TTK on an ADS is identical to the TTK on an HAV.

I kill a python in 3 shots. I kill a gunnlogi in 3 shots. TTK is identical unless tye gunnlogi sacrifices a useful gun turret to spike their tank hard.

Same with an Incubus and madrugar. Three shots unless the driver forgoes a more useful main gun.

Are you saying the ADS needs to be more resilient and hard to kill than an HAV?

Serious question.

Also when I have two 5m SP assaults focus fire on my sentinel my max skill sentinel usually dies. Why should an ADS be different facing two enemy AV?

HAVs die by the numbers vs. Two AV with a level of haste that is amazing. When I pair off with another forge gunner even an overtanked HAV dies in around seven seconds.

Making ADS able to tank and deal with AV teams would actually make them more resilient than an HAV because of speed.

Teamwork is deadly. Tank drivers have learned that when an area has multiple AV it's time to be somewhere else immediately where there are not multiple AV.

The TTK of a Maxed Swarmer vs an ADS (assuming best fits) is:

• Python: 12.02s
• Incubus: 6.01s

*Assumes 0m away from Target

Notice that with a base speed of 50m/s, you can still escape the Swarmer's lock range in 3.5s, which is shorter than the TTK of any of the Dropships listed.

The Incubus may be much more susceptible to Swarms than the Python, but I don't see how this is a problem considering how Swarm Launchers are Explosives (-20/+20). That would be like a Shield Tanker trying to take on a SCR head-on as opposed to attacking it by surprise and wondering why you keep dying.

3. You know those silly little turrets that you have on your ADS that you wish you could remove because why should you share your dropship with other people? Let two people onto your ADS and use them.

Lets see Installations have a massive blindspot, militia tanks at best can get points for damaging a standard dropship with one shot, militia forge guns can barely strip shields on a Incubus, militia swarms can barely strip shields on a LAV, kamikaze dropships would work assuming they are flying a Python and don't see you before its to late.

I've seen more ADS pilots on the forums whining about AV then anything else lately.

The TTK of a Maxed Swarmer vs an ADS (assuming best fits) is:

• Python: 12.02s
• Incubus: 6.01s

*Assumes 0m away from Target

Notice that with a base speed of 50m/s, you can still escape the Swarmer's lock range in 3.5s, which is shorter than the TTK of any of the Dropships listed.

The Incubus may be much more susceptible to Swarms than the Python, but I don't see how this is a problem considering how Swarm Launchers are Explosives (-20/+20). That would be like a Shield Tanker trying to take on a SCR head-on as opposed to attacking it by surprise and wondering why you keep dying.

I actually need to start testing the PLC against dropships soon

The same is true of vehicles, every single player has free unlimited swarm missiles. Every player has acess to installations, militia tanks with militia railguns, militia kamikazee ships, militia heavy suits and militia forge guns.

SP cost 0

Anyone and everyone can shoot at vehicles.

ADS is in a bad place at the moment as the time to kill is way too short and the rate of fire nerf didn't help either but I've gotten used to it.

What needs to be done is a little buff to the ADS ehp to reflect the swarm launcher increased effectiveness either that or an increase in the cpu/pg for better fitting.

Please note guys I'm infantry and an ADS pilot and believe me when I say SL is dumbs easy filthy PoS weapon for skilless players (me!) to go killing tanks/dropships.

All you need to do is aim, lock on and fire into the air three times before they even know what hit them then reload and so it again... just wow very easy mode.

This is how you make a post when you want your feedback disregarded.

If this is true, and a swarmer is coming at you, why do you shoot back with your HMG? I'm sure you can switch up in the middle of the firefight with ease. (Actually, unlike the infantry you're shooting, you really can switch yourself from a vehicle to infantry easily. You just jump out.)

The reality is, at any given time, most of the people on the field cannot shoot at you, but you can shoot at them. Trying to argue this point is completely non-constructive.

The ADS nerf has separated the pros from the scrubs. It's actually quite refreshing.

All this crying from these sub-par pilots while I watch Lions-Fan and Derrith still dropping 20+ kills in a PC.

I stole F.A. 's pilot (could ve been derrith not sure) Python in a PC by the way, and downed two more.

Man, stop the hero worship.

I stole F.A. 's pilot (could ve been derrith not sure) Python in a PC by the way, and downed two more.

Man, stop the hero worship.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure it wasn't you. The only person to ever steal one of my ADS in a PC was Yoshi. And even then, that wasn't much of an accomplishment on his end, my pilot suit has the protection of a bad condom.

And I'm definitely sure it wasn't me, because I've never seen you PC before.

Well, now that I got the war room spirit out of me, what the heck was this thread about again?