DUST Search - Yet another ads thread

Breakin Stuff wrote:

Actually in my experience and after experimenting heavily it require two basic swarms to have the same chance of killing an ADS as a single advanced forge gun.

Not very likely unless you are hovering. When I ran my ADS fights with my minmando and basic swarms we calculated that it would take between six and eight shots to kill the ADS. Two swarmers would need to have proto skills to be at 1.4 second lock times.

Most players who moonlight AV stop at 3 or they don't go past 1. They just want the 4th shot and cheaper fitting.

The thing that kills most ADS pilots is the psychological need to hover. When you hover and simply hang out over a pack of infantry you set yourself in a position where any AV gunner can pretty much guarantee two hits before you can fully react.

Hovering over a sentinel isn't bright, but I don't see many ADS drivers doing that. But when they see infantry they immediately go into hover mode to farm kills.

There is no opening attack run. They don't do a run bombarding infantry then pulling away to see if swarms and forge guns have fired.

When they get over a pack of infantry they simply hang there until someone gets mad and tries to kill them.

When you're blasting ground troops do you sit there until AV arrives or are you picking off 1-3 targets then moving off before the inevitable rage respawns with AV weapons?

If you say you sit around until AV shows up then you are the type of pilot I live for. As AV I don't have to hunt you, chase you. I know where you are and where you will be.

The ADS pilots I can't drop are long gone by the time I get to their last location.

Kill a few infantry, then leave. Find another target area and kill a few more. Don't stick around and farm. If you farm then you will inevitably become part of the harvest. As much as the ADS still needs tweaks the mindset, tactics and methods need to change as well.

Right now he who has the initiative and the intel will almost slways win in AV/V. Dropship pilot habits mean that AV always has the intel. Change the habits and you change the equation.

The only thing tou need to stop a swarm lock is 150 meters of distance.

If you abuse this then forge guns are your sole worry.

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manboar thunder fist Dead Man's Game RUST415 154	Posted - 2014.10.12 12:18:00 - [1] - Quote so... Here we are yet again You want swarms to rip drop ships like hmgs through militia suits I want to be able to escape more than 1 person with av Every time I come across even 2 basic swarm launchers I have a high chance of dying. My rof has been nerfed to the point I can't kill madrugars at all... And I'm losing at least 2 pythons a match when I fly because everyone has av You can't account for 1 v 1 av balance when there is typically 2 ads and 14 potential av players Before you go on making crude comments about skill... The escape system vs av requires not much skill at all... Swarm/fg hits... You thrust... Swarm/fg hits, you're flying fast, usually third volley impacts But it's stupid when I'm dying to basic swarms over 480 m away from launch site. I should have the window to be able to kill a swarmer, not just get hit by 1 swarm and run away, come back in a minute Idc what the trolls say, flying is hard and less rewarding than most other play styles If I can go 40-0 in a scout, 40-0 in a tank....then why am I forced to die repeatedly in an ads that doesn't serve its purpose efficiently.... Swarms need a nerf or ads needs a buff, as proto av and proto ads It's too easy to knock out the ads alone, let alone combine with friendly tanks, fg, swarm launchers, ads and rail lavs NERF SCOUTS, NERF TANKS, NERF AV, NERF ASSAULTS, NERF LOGIS, NERF HEAVIES nerf life Delta- bye bye ads, bye bye scr
Bahirae Serugiusu Vendetta Reactionary Force 170	Posted - 2014.10.12 12:24:00 - [2] - Quote No one is forcing you to play ADS every match. And if a swarm launcher has a lock on you then a rate of fire buff isn't going to change that. And also if you get killed by AV then why on earth are you spawning another ADS and attempting the same thing just to fail again?
Atiim 12907	Posted - 2014.10.12 12:33:00 - [3] - Quote I die about two times every match because everyone on the enemy team has a gun. HTFU. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
medomai grey WarRavens Capital Punishment. 1012	Posted - 2014.10.12 14:24:00 - [4] - Quote I don't see solid argument from the OP. "I don't want to die" is not a valid argument for 2 against 1 being "unfair". What percentile of Dust514's infantry arsenal belongs to the category of machine guns?
manboar thunder fist Dead Man's Game RUST415 154	Posted - 2014.10.12 14:31:00 - [5] - Quote There's a difference between balance and systematic eradication NERF SCOUTS, NERF TANKS, NERF AV, NERF ASSAULTS, NERF LOGIS, NERF HEAVIES nerf life Delta- bye bye ads, bye bye scr
manboar thunder fist Dead Man's Game RUST415 154	Posted - 2014.10.12 14:35:00 - [6] - Quote Switching to fotm shouldn't be the reply, and if tankers died this fast I'm sure they'd rage. There's a difference between having no chance of survival and having the skill to evade death. If you lock onto me with swarms I have no hope of any skill based manouver helping me to escape. Swarms don't account for strafing, cover and all those cheap tricks we use to evade Fire... If swarms are coming I am 100% gonna die and that shouldn't be the case.... The av balance vs ads is badly broken with swarms, there is too much dmg potential with very little Isk loss and it's simply too easy to kill an ads NERF SCOUTS, NERF TANKS, NERF AV, NERF ASSAULTS, NERF LOGIS, NERF HEAVIES nerf life Delta- bye bye ads, bye bye scr
Bahirae Serugiusu Vendetta Reactionary Force 170	Posted - 2014.10.12 14:59:00 - [7] - Quote manboar thunder fist wrote: Switching to fotm shouldn't be the reply, and if tankers died this fast I'm sure they'd rage. There's a difference between having no chance of survival and having the skill to evade death. If you lock onto me with swarms I have no hope of any skill based manouver helping me to escape. Swarms don't account for strafing, cover and all those cheap tricks we use to evade Fire... If swarms are coming I am 100% gonna die and that shouldn't be the case.... The av balance vs ads is badly broken with swarms, there is too much dmg potential with very little Isk loss and it's simply too easy to kill an ads 1. Tankers do rage problem is that half the time they are idiots and drive down main street thinking they can go one man army. 2. Swarm launchers do nothing to infantry, forge guns take a while to charge and aren't the most effective AP weapons, and if you get hit by a plasma cannon you deserve it. Unless you are using a Commando suit YOU ARE WORTHLESS AGAINST INFANTRY 3. You know those silly little turrets that you have on your ADS that you wish you could remove because why should you share your dropship with other people? Let two people onto your ADS and use them. Use the same tactics that I use with my Militia Sica that has no points put into it. Be careful. Don't fly down the middle of the map expecting to be invincible, go slow take your time and keep an eye on your surroundings. And if EVERYONE is carrying around swarm launchers then why are you unable to destroy a Madrugar and spawning more ADS when its clear it isn't going to work.
manboar thunder fist Dead Man's Game RUST415 155	Posted - 2014.10.12 21:59:00 - [8] - Quote Lol it's so great to have a forum where every post isn't a troll going Deal with it Nice that balance is in the game, rattati check your statistics, there is a problem with ads balance and it needs to be fixed. You promised if things got out of hand you would have a change before the next hotfix, nearly all ads pilots rarely fly anymore, even m+¦bius wyvern, the man behind the sidearm changes and a solid voice has admitted his Python is a pile of junk now. Fix it, the ads community is small and hardly appreciated as it is NERF SCOUTS, NERF TANKS, NERF AV, NERF ASSAULTS, NERF LOGIS, NERF HEAVIES nerf life Delta- bye bye ads, bye bye scr
Miokai Zahou WarRavens Capital Punishment. 403	Posted - 2014.10.13 00:25:00 - [9] - Quote ADS is in a bad place at the moment as the time to kill is way too short and the rate of fire nerf didn't help either but I've gotten used to it. What needs to be done is a little buff to the ADS ehp to reflect the swarm launcher increased effectiveness either that or an increase in the cpu/pg for better fitting. Please note guys I'm infantry and an ADS pilot and believe me when I say SL is dumbs easy filthy PoS weapon for skilless players (me!) to go killing tanks/dropships. All you need to do is aim, lock on and fire into the air three times before they even know what hit them then reload and so it again... just wow very easy mode. Noob isn't really a status, it's the online equivalent of a 5-year old calling you a poopy fart head.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 5843	Posted - 2014.10.13 05:40:00 - [10] - Quote Not sure if you're the right guy to ask or not, but would increasing the ADS / DS acceleration or top speed help? Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley

Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3615	Posted - 2014.10.13 07:57:00 - [11] - Quote TTK on an ADS is identical to the TTK on an HAV. I kill a python in 3 shots. I kill a gunnlogi in 3 shots. TTK is identical unless tye gunnlogi sacrifices a useful gun turret to spike their tank hard. Same with an Incubus and madrugar. Three shots unless the driver forgoes a more useful main gun. Are you saying the ADS needs to be more resilient and hard to kill than an HAV? Serious question. Also when I have two 5m SP assaults focus fire on my sentinel my max skill sentinel usually dies. Why should an ADS be different facing two enemy AV? HAVs die by the numbers vs. Two AV with a level of haste that is amazing. When I pair off with another forge gunner even an overtanked HAV dies in around seven seconds. Making ADS able to tank and deal with AV teams would actually make them more resilient than an HAV because of speed. Teamwork is deadly. Tank drivers have learned that when an area has multiple AV it's time to be somewhere else immediately where there are not multiple AV.
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 230	Posted - 2014.10.13 09:55:00 - [12] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: TTK on an ADS is identical to the TTK on an HAV. I kill a python in 3 shots. I kill a gunnlogi in 3 shots. TTK is identical unless tye gunnlogi sacrifices a useful gun turret to spike their tank hard. Same with an Incubus and madrugar. Three shots unless the driver forgoes a more useful main gun. Are you saying the ADS needs to be more resilient and hard to kill than an HAV? Serious question. Also when I have two 5m SP assaults focus fire on my sentinel my max skill sentinel usually dies. Why should an ADS be different facing two enemy AV? HAVs die by the numbers vs. Two AV with a level of haste that is amazing. When I pair off with another forge gunner even an overtanked HAV dies in around seven seconds. Making ADS able to tank and deal with AV teams would actually make them more resilient than an HAV because of speed. Teamwork is deadly. Tank drivers have learned that when an area has multiple AV it's time to be somewhere else immediately where there are not multiple AV. Teamwork should be deadly, of course. My issue however is 1 v 2 forge gunners, TTK goes way down, but forge rounds are not impossible to dodge. Two forgers shooting at an ADS or any Vehicle have an high opourtunity to score a kill, and under fire, its my flying skill vs forge gun aiming skill that dictate whether i live or die. Proto suit vs 2 Militia suits are the same thing. The odds are in the enemy's favor but its still your "gungame" vs theirs. Swarms are not like that at all, we all know how they work, 1.4 seconds to lock, auto track, with more speed, more manueverability, and swarmers will always get the first shot/first hit off before they can even render. There is nothing a pilot can do to avoid getting hit. Its all about whether you can tank 3 swarms to survive or 4 from 1 player before you hit max range. I agree that vs forge guns, vehicle combat is as balanced as its ever going to get. I wouldn't change a thing. With swarms its disgustedly unbalanced. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3615	Posted - 2014.10.13 10:17:00 - [13] - Quote Actually in my experience and after experimenting heavily it require two basic swarms to have the same chance of killing an ADS as a single advanced forge gun. Not very likely unless you are hovering. When I ran my ADS fights with my minmando and basic swarms we calculated that it would take between six and eight shots to kill the ADS. Two swarmers would need to have proto skills to be at 1.4 second lock times. Most players who moonlight AV stop at 3 or they don't go past 1. They just want the 4th shot and cheaper fitting. The thing that kills most ADS pilots is the psychological need to hover. When you hover and simply hang out over a pack of infantry you set yourself in a position where any AV gunner can pretty much guarantee two hits before you can fully react. Hovering over a sentinel isn't bright, but I don't see many ADS drivers doing that. But when they see infantry they immediately go into hover mode to farm kills. There is no opening attack run. They don't do a run bombarding infantry then pulling away to see if swarms and forge guns have fired. When they get over a pack of infantry they simply hang there until someone gets mad and tries to kill them. When you're blasting ground troops do you sit there until AV arrives or are you picking off 1-3 targets then moving off before the inevitable rage respawns with AV weapons? If you say you sit around until AV shows up then you are the type of pilot I live for. As AV I don't have to hunt you, chase you. I know where you are and where you will be. The ADS pilots I can't drop are long gone by the time I get to their last location. Kill a few infantry, then leave. Find another target area and kill a few more. Don't stick around and farm. If you farm then you will inevitably become part of the harvest. As much as the ADS still needs tweaks the mindset, tactics and methods need to change as well. Right now he who has the initiative and the intel will almost slways win in AV/V. Dropship pilot habits mean that AV always has the intel. Change the habits and you change the equation. The only thing tou need to stop a swarm lock is 150 meters of distance. If you abuse this then forge guns are your sole worry.
Dust User KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 824	Posted - 2014.10.13 10:38:00 - [14] - Quote lol This guy's tears.
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 230	Posted - 2014.10.13 12:22:00 - [15] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Actually in my experience and after experimenting heavily it require two basic swarms to have the same chance of killing an ADS as a single advanced forge gun. Not very likely unless you are hovering. When I ran my ADS fights with my minmando and basic swarms we calculated that it would take between six and eight shots to kill the ADS. Two swarmers would need to have proto skills to be at 1.4 second lock times. Most players who moonlight AV stop at 3 or they don't go past 1. They just want the 4th shot and cheaper fitting. The thing that kills most ADS pilots is the psychological need to hover. When you hover and simply hang out over a pack of infantry you set yourself in a position where any AV gunner can pretty much guarantee two hits before you can fully react. Hovering over a sentinel isn't bright, but I don't see many ADS drivers doing that. But when they see infantry they immediately go into hover mode to farm kills. There is no opening attack run. They don't do a run bombarding infantry then pulling away to see if swarms and forge guns have fired. When they get over a pack of infantry they simply hang there until someone gets mad and tries to kill them. When you're blasting ground troops do you sit there until AV arrives or are you picking off 1-3 targets then moving off before the inevitable rage respawns with AV weapons? If you say you sit around until AV shows up then you are the type of pilot I live for. As AV I don't have to hunt you, chase you. I know where you are and where you will be. The ADS pilots I can't drop are long gone by the time I get to their last location. Kill a few infantry, then leave. Find another target area and kill a few more. Don't stick around and farm. If you farm then you will inevitably become part of the harvest. As much as the ADS still needs tweaks the mindset, tactics and methods need to change as well. Right now he who has the initiative and the intel will almost slways win in AV/V. Dropship pilot habits mean that AV always has the intel. Change the habits and you change the equation. The only thing tou need to stop a swarm lock is 150 meters of distance. If you abuse this then forge guns are your sole worry. I hear what you're saying, but you have to also take into account the way dropships work at the moment and compare attack habits. My preferred approach is to ask on comms where the action is at. I go into a dive from altitude, throw my ship in a half spin to throw off some momentum, throw down a few missiles (prioitry is equipment first then troops) then take off again. You have to go into a spinning hover mode just to get the DPs down to kill anything. Render range means i have to close in under 100 M. No troops renders for the pilot beyond 175 m. The only way to attacking from beyond that is to hover, presenting a nice meal for forge gunners, rail installations and swarms as well. I will try to take a video to show exactly what i mean. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
Atiim 12933	Posted - 2014.10.13 12:34:00 - [16] - Quote Miokai Zahou wrote: ADS is in a bad place at the moment as the time to kill is way too short and the rate of fire nerf didn't help either but I've gotten used to it. The TTK of a Maxed Swarmer vs an ADS (assuming best fits) is: Python: 12.02s Incubus: 6.01s *Assumes 0m away from Target Notice that with a base speed of 50m/s, you can still escape the Swarmer's lock range in 3.5s, which is shorter than the TTK of any of the Dropships listed. The Incubus may be much more susceptible to Swarms than the Python, but I don't see how this is a problem considering how Swarm Launchers are Explosives (-20/+20). That would be like a Shield Tanker trying to take on a SCR head-on as opposed to attacking it by surprise and wondering why you keep dying. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3617	Posted - 2014.10.13 13:09:00 - [17] - Quote Forge gun TTK is in between Atiim's TTK numbers. Optimal scenario for a forge gun is 6.75 seconds with a maxed ishukone assault forge. For both dropships. TTK is identical for both. This assumes that neither the second nor third shot misses. This prospect is unlikely given dropship wild escape maneuvers. Assuming a miss on the third (most likely outcome) the gunner must line up and lead the 4th. Normal TTK on an ADS is 9 seconds or four shots if the gunner pulls off the hail mary. Third shot usually misses. Reload means dropship always escapes.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 4151	Posted - 2014.10.13 14:09:00 - [18] - Quote "14 potential AV"? At any given time, you're immune to all damage from 90% of the players on the field. If one or two go get an AV fit, you're still immune to most of the people on the field. Meanwhile, all 16 players can kill the AV users. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
XxGhazbaranxX Eternal Beings Dark Taboo 1749	Posted - 2014.10.13 14:12:00 - [19] - Quote manboar thunder fist wrote: Idc what the trolls say, flying is hard and less rewarding than most other play styles If I can go 40-0 in a scout, 40-0 in a tank....then why am I forced to die repeatedly in an ads that doesn't serve its purpose efficiently.... Swarms need a nerf or ads needs a buff, as proto av and proto ads It's too easy to knock out the ads alone, let alone combine with friendly tanks, fg, swarm launchers, ads and rail lavs This is exactly the problem. people think that just because you are in an ADS you shouldn't be able to do any of this. Most of the player base doesn't even understand how difficult it is to pilot an ADS much less be EFFECTIVE with it. All they see is that their militia swarms for which they invested no sp for can't kill a highly specialized role. SWARMERS don't want to mimando up to get the best of their swarms, yet us pilots have to super specialize to be half effective on the Battlefield. It's all pissing and moaning because they want their unspecialized asses to be able to defeat your specialized ass in an easy manner. ** going 40-0 with a scout, a heavy or a logi as long as those damn ADS pilots aren't able to. It's a really hipocritical idea that ground troops will always stick to. As long as CCP listens to the so-called majority in the forums, which basically mean people who are too bad to actually play the game, things wont get better. AS you can see, you posted something that was half-way ranty but in no way false and all you get is troll soup up the anus. Ignorance will always drive change, specially if they cry the hardest. Most ADS pilots actually prefer to play the game instead of being in the forums 24/7 so they will not be heard above all the ** most of these forum warriors crap through their mouths at a rate so fast you don't know how it's physically possible that their anus isn't vacuming all oxygen of the room they are sitting in... Final thought is, your fighting a losing battle. all you are doing is opening more cans of worms. Let it go or CCP will only witness the uneducated(in piloting), the biased and the trolls. P.S. GOD I HOPE THIS DOESN'T GET ME BANNED BUT I JUST COULDN'T TAKE IT ANYMORE Plasma Cannon Advocate Dust 514 Survivor
XxGhazbaranxX Eternal Beings Dark Taboo 1749	Posted - 2014.10.13 14:14:00 - [20] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: "14 potential AV"? At any given time, you're immune to all damage from 90% of the players on the field. If one or two go get an AV fit, you're still immune to most of the people on the field. Meanwhile, all 16 players can kill the AV users. AV'rs aren't defenseless and this is a game of choice. You don't equip a swarm on a logi suit, then if you dont want to be as vulnerable you use a commando. There is no excuse. An ADS has no such options. There are only 1 or two viable fits that are still super easy to kill with the current balance. immunity by choice, because that infantry can easy switch it up. They are not stuck in their specific role. 90% of damage on the field yes but only because most people are too lazy to switch to av Plasma Cannon Advocate Dust 514 Survivor

XxGhazbaranxX Eternal Beings Dark Taboo 1750	Posted - 2014.10.13 14:22:00 - [21] - Quote Atiim wrote: Miokai Zahou wrote: ADS is in a bad place at the moment as the time to kill is way too short and the rate of fire nerf didn't help either but I've gotten used to it. The TTK of a Maxed Swarmer vs an ADS (assuming best fits) is: Python: 12.02s Incubus: 6.01s *Assumes 0m away from Target Notice that with a base speed of 50m/s, you can still escape the Swarmer's lock range in 3.5s, which is shorter than the TTK of any of the Dropships listed. The Incubus may be much more susceptible to Swarms than the Python, but I don't see how this is a problem considering how Swarm Launchers are Explosives (-20/+20). That would be like a Shield Tanker trying to take on a SCR head-on as opposed to attacking it by surprise and wondering why you keep dying. I agree but, we also have to take into consideration acceleration and knockback of swams. Most of the time it's not 1v1 and we cannot see swarmers until it's too late most fo the time. TTK for a maxed out swarmer that is unspecialized (mimando is fully specialized anything else is half assed even with proficiency 5) Not taking into consideration fits that could well include damage mods. ADS pilots have to go all out with their skills or they don't fly, it should be the same for someone who wants to be capable to 1v1 them. I see King bolly kill ads all the time even before th swarm balance. This is a group of people that want an unfair sp/power advantage over a player that, if he were on the ground, would not be able to do half of what the swarmer could because the pilots sp is in vehicle skills Plasma Cannon Advocate Dust 514 Survivor
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 5849	Posted - 2014.10.13 14:45:00 - [22] - Quote XxGhazbaranxX wrote: ... going 40-0 with a scout, a heavy or a logi as long as those damn ADS pilots aren't able to. It's a really hipocritical idea that ground troops will always stick to. To be fair, anyone and everyone can shoot back at a Scout, Heavy or Logi. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 230	Posted - 2014.10.13 15:03:00 - [23] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: XxGhazbaranxX wrote: ... going 40-0 with a scout, a heavy or a logi as long as those damn ADS pilots aren't able to. It's a really hipocritical idea that ground troops will always stick to. To be fair, anyone and everyone can shoot back at a Scout, Heavy or Logi. The same is true of vehicles, every single player has free unlimited swarm missiles. Every player has acess to installations, militia tanks with militia railguns, militia kamikazee ships, militia heavy suits and militia forge guns. SP cost 0 Anyone and everyone can shoot at vehicles. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
Derrith Erador Fatal Absolution 2857	Posted - 2014.10.13 15:03:00 - [24] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Not sure if you're the right guy to ask or not, but would increasing the ADS / DS acceleration or top speed help? I'd like that, but probably not. It would just lead to more militia swarms complaining why their 0isk suit can't kill my 375k ADS. Again, I'd like it, but probably not. Decreasing the homing would be better, rewards ADS who use cover to avoid fire. FAs official perv and lech. My dream is to turn 80 and become a dirty old man chasing skirts.
CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 1968	Posted - 2014.10.13 16:26:00 - [25] - Quote Hopefully Rattati goes ahead with some small turret variations, I feel that would be nice for ADS pilots. At that point the only balancing issues is the lack of WP`s for dropship pilots of all types. Oh that and the disparity between shields and armour dropship ramming. "Also I think knives are a good idea, big f**k-off shiny ones" "Guns for show, Knives for a pro" MY LIFE FOR AIUR!
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 5857	Posted - 2014.10.13 18:08:00 - [26] - Quote Derrith Erador wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Not sure if you're the right guy to ask or not, but would increasing the ADS / DS acceleration or top speed help? I'd like that, but probably not. It would just lead to more militia swarms complaining why their 0isk suit can't kill my 375k ADS. Again, I'd like it, but probably not. Decreasing the homing would be better, rewards ADS who use cover to avoid fire. Roger dodger. Here to help if you need me. o7 Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 5857	Posted - 2014.10.13 18:11:00 - [27] - Quote Tesfa Alem wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: XxGhazbaranxX wrote: ... going 40-0 with a scout, a heavy or a logi as long as those damn ADS pilots aren't able to. It's a really hipocritical idea that ground troops will always stick to. To be fair, anyone and everyone can shoot back at a Scout, Heavy or Logi. The same is true of vehicles, every single player has free unlimited swarm missiles. Every player has acess to installations, militia tanks with militia railguns, militia kamikazee ships, militia heavy suits and militia forge guns. SP cost 0 Anyone and everyone can shoot at vehicles. If swarms killed infantry or swarms were a sidearm, then you might have a point. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Atiim 12936	Posted - 2014.10.13 18:21:00 - [28] - Quote manboar thunder fist wrote: [...] If I can go 40-0 in a scout, 40-0 in a tank....then why am I forced to die repeatedly in an ads that doesn't serve its purpose efficiently.... Swarms need a nerf or ads needs a buff, as proto av and proto ads It's too easy to knock out the ads alone, let alone combine with friendly tanks, fg, swarm launchers, ads and rail lavs The odds of you going 40/0 in a Scout or HAV were extremely less compared to the odds of you going 40/0 inside an Assault Dropship, as the ADS (pre-Charlie) was practically risk-free. For example, if someone decent begins firing at a Scout, they're going to die unless they have cover nearby. If someone decent began firing at an ADS, the ADS would teleport to the redline and be fully repaired before the AB cooled down. The only thing that needs a buff is your ability to fit and fly Dropships. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Derrith Erador Fatal Absolution 2860	Posted - 2014.10.13 18:44:00 - [29] - Quote Atiim wrote: The only thing that needs a buff is your ability to fit and fly Dropships. Leaving this here. But on a real note, ADS is in a bad place currently. Not impossible to fly for the experienced, but this page should explain what I mean. And with that, I'd also like to ask you a question, if you were to become a diehard pilot, would you skill level 5 into python instead of getting something else? FAs official perv and lech. My dream is to turn 80 and become a dirty old man chasing skirts.
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 1230	Posted - 2014.10.13 21:04:00 - [30] - Quote Before I can actually answer about balance I need to know what you think balance is and what metric we can use to determine it. KDR? What do you think the average KDR is for ADS pilots and what should it be? How about weapon consumed per spawn, that is how many swarms are lost for every ADS? Should it be an equal amount of ISK used? I don't have the data but I'd be willing to bet that either measure favors ADS pilots by a huge amount. Still, pilots are complaining and we want them to fly. I'd support tweaking ROF and turn radius of swarms again. I think collision damage should change and prices should drop more. Because, that's why.



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