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Lynn Beck Fooly Cooly. 2101	Posted - 2014.09.25 20:19:00 - [1] - Quote CCP: Bravo on the previous patches, you've actually made me reinstall, and play 1-3 matches a day, congratulations on that. However, you're seriously making me HATE being a Minmatar: on the projectile profile update- WHY did you make it Psuedo Explosive?! Against a STANDARD calsent using a Six Kin ACR on a MK.0 Commando, WITH Prof 2 or 3, it took me THREE clips to drop his shields, and he stood there, pelleting me with 40m HMG. Using my SMG: i like it, although it struggles WAY too much against shield, EVEN Galscout's 90 shields seems to take 6-8 shots to clear(SK9M Breach with Prof 3), which is ridiculous considering it's ripping apart my 448/369 HP before i even drop his shields. In terms of my Flaylock: Bravo again, i haven't checked numbers, but i got 4 splash kills on severely wounded targets using it. Everything else Minmatar though, is absolutely completely **** now(unless you're a heathen and carry Fluxes, or use Imperial things -shudder-) In terms of a Sidearm my ACR is pretty fine n dandy General John Ripper -BAM! I'm Emeril Lagasse. This message was approved by the 'Nobody Loved You' Foundation
Lynn Beck Fooly Cooly. 2101	Posted - 2014.09.25 20:24:00 - [2] - Quote As for a proposal/request: Can we PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THINGS KITTEN, change Projectile to -5%/+5%, as that follows the EVElopedia which states: goes to copy/paste taken from HERE: Quote: Projectile ammunition always does some amount of kinetic damage, as well as one or more other types depending on the ammo. Projectile ammunition can cover a wide range of damage types and uses, so you can select something to use for general situations, or you can tailor your choice to certain damage types. This complete abandonment of EVE's design in favor of "wahh wahh CR eat shield, must break CR, OH, CR eat armor? MAKE IT SO!" General John Ripper -BAM! I'm Emeril Lagasse. This message was approved by the 'Nobody Loved You' Foundation
Cpt McReady Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 61	Posted - 2014.09.25 20:28:00 - [3] - Quote Lynn Beck wrote: As for a proposal/request: Can we PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THINGS KITTEN, change Projectile to -5%/+5%, as that follows the EVElopedia which states: goes to copy/paste This complete abandonment of EVE's design in favor of "wahh wahh CR eat shield, must break CR, OH, CR eat armor? MAKE IT SO!" agree
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3187	Posted - 2014.09.25 20:52:00 - [4] - Quote Lynn Beck wrote: As for a proposal/request: Can we PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THINGS KITTEN, change Projectile to -5%/+5%, as that follows the EVElopedia which states: goes to copy/paste taken from HERE: Quote: Projectile ammunition always does some amount of kinetic damage, as well as one or more other types depending on the ammo. Projectile ammunition can cover a wide range of damage types and uses, so you can select something to use for general situations, or you can tailor your choice to certain damage types. This complete abandonment of EVE's design in favor of "wahh wahh CR eat shield, must break CR, OH, CR eat armor? MAKE IT SO!" It's a bit different when you have 5 damage types in Dust but only 4 in EVE, and a system where weapons deal a single type of damage opposed to multiple types like in EVE. Not saying the 5/5 is bad, but you also can't really make the EVE comparison in this case either. Hotfix Delta Sentinel eHP Calcs
Malleus Malificorum Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 95	Posted - 2014.09.25 20:56:00 - [5] - Quote Lynn Beck wrote: As for a proposal/request: Can we PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THINGS KITTEN, change Projectile to -5%/+5%, as that follows the EVElopedia which states: goes to copy/paste taken from HERE: Quote: Projectile ammunition always does some amount of kinetic damage, as well as one or more other types depending on the ammo. Projectile ammunition can cover a wide range of damage types and uses, so you can select something to use for general situations, or you can tailor your choice to certain damage types. This complete abandonment of EVE's design in favor of "wahh wahh CR eat shield, must break CR, OH, CR eat armor? MAKE IT SO!" -5/+5 is as bad as 0/0. It has no SIGNIFICANT drawback against anything while having a huge bonus to armor (because proficiency). If you're going to quote eve ammo types, maybe you should look at the damage weightings for them. Carbonized Lead: +60% range, 3:3 explosive:kinetic, 6 damage Nuclear: +40% range 5:2 explosive:kinetic, 7 damage Proton: +20% range 3:4 Em:kinetic, 7 damage Depleted Uranium: +0% range 3:3:2 Explosive:kinetic:Thermal, 8 damage Titanium Sabot: -12.5% range, 3:6 explosive:kinetic, 9 damage Fusion: -20%range, 8:2 explosive:kinetic, 10 damage Phased Plasma: -37.5% range, 2:8 kinetic:thermal 10 damage EMP: -50% range, 5:4:2 em:explosive:kinetic, 11 damage. While projectiles benefit from really getting to select their ammo types, practically any of the 'good' damage:range variants rely heavily on explosive damage weightings. Fusion is the definitive projectile ammo type offering by far the best damage for range and is entirely likely the ammo that almost all minmatar weapons in dust use. Hybrid weapons on the other hand are split almost 50/50 for their use of kinetic and thermal damage (and presumably the weapons in dust play up to each races preferred profile with caldari using hybrid slugs that emphasise the kinetic portions, and the gallente converting the charges into plasma before firing them, playing up the thermal profile). The main point is, -5/+5 is not a 'balanced' profile, it doesn't fair poorly against any target and so murders with impunity. -15/+15 is a balanced profile, as it fairs poorly against shields especially at range and performs exceptionally versus armor (and you realise, the invention of shields probably almost destroyed conventional ballistic weaponry right? Minmatar guns are shooting ****ing phased plasma / fusion warhead tipped bullets!) Weep not poor children, For life is this way, Murdering beauty and passion.
Maken Tosch Dust University Ivy League 9544	Posted - 2014.09.25 21:45:00 - [6] - Quote Lynn Beck wrote: Everything else Minmatar though, is absolutely completely **** now(unless you're a heathen and carry Fluxes, or use Imperial things -shudder-) In terms of a Sidearm my ACR is pretty fine n dandy Not entirely so. As a Minmatar Scout, I carry the unique benefit that comes with the Nova Knives in which it does equal bonus damage to both shields and armor which is why a lot of heavies fear us so much. Of course, it's already known that the Nova Knives are Caldari tech in nature but the fact that a Minmatar is the only race that takes full advantage of such a potent weapon is the point I'm trying to make here. As of right now, 90% of all Sentinal and Commando kills that I have under my belt have been achieved with one charged hit -- a few of which were Galmando Thale Snipers. The remaining 10% have been likely to be proto bears which only required one more hit which doesn't really need that much damage dealt for the sliver of armor the target has left after the initial hit. PS: Only an Amarrian would call anyone a heathen, not someone who is Matari. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 16706	Posted - 2014.09.25 21:45:00 - [7] - Quote We don't have specialized ammo; you're mostly shooting titanium or carbonized lead right now. Also for the game's sake it brings advantages to shield tanking. Earlier today won against a gal sentinel because my shields held out longer than his armor did and I murdered the ever loving crap out of that armor. CPM 1 Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior \\= Prototype Sniper Rifles =// Unlocked
Maken Tosch Dust University Ivy League 9544	Posted - 2014.09.25 21:49:00 - [8] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: We don't have specialized ammo; you're mostly shooting titanium or carbonized lead right now. That's another thing to consider. We don't have the ability to change the ammo type of our weapons but we can least fit two weapons to cover both shields and armor. Sometimes on my fake-assault fits I would carry an assault rifle mixed in with an SMG. Clear shields with AR and then follow up with SMG to take out the armor. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Cheydinhal Guard Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 201	Posted - 2014.09.25 22:01:00 - [9] - Quote Flux grenades are your best bet for now. Earlier today a I faced a CalSent while I was in my trusty Min assault. He got cocky when he realized that I was using a CR, but one flux grenade later he was dead at my feet. I like to run the ScP on it too. It's a great combination, even if it is kind of heathen-ish I can wait an entire hour in about 10 minutes. Impressive, i know.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 16707	Posted - 2014.09.25 22:05:00 - [10] - Quote The whole idea is to make the game interesting between armor and shield meta game play; instead of having one shoe ignores all. CPM 1 Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior \\= Prototype Sniper Rifles =// Unlocked

hfderrtgvcd 539	Posted - 2014.09.25 22:40:00 - [11] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: The whole idea is to make the game interesting between armor and shield meta game play; instead of having one shoe ignores all. ffs dude, its an fps not a real time strategy game. If I shoot at someone they should die. Damage profiles should give slight advantages, not completely tilt a fight into someone's favor because of the suit they're wearing. You can't fight in here! This is the war room.
castba Merc-0107 596	Posted - 2014.09.25 23:36:00 - [12] - Quote Do you even laser? How can you even complain about +15% to armour? -15% against an extreme shield tank 800 hp is nothing compared to -20% against an extreme armour tanked 1300 hp suit. Perhaps use a laser/projectile set up on your commando? "When everything is OP, nothing is" - CCP Ratatti
Lynn Beck Fooly Cooly. 2106	Posted - 2014.09.26 01:41:00 - [13] - Quote With lasers, they have the single HIGHEST DPS ratings, SCR can psuedo-alpha strike my 900 HP minassault, SCP can 1 hit headshot me, and Laser Rifle can melt ANY suit within an overheat, so their ONLY disadvantage, if that's what you call it, is against 1300 armor sents. Laser: in eve it is still effective against armor, but not as effective as against shields(from what i've heard, but it makes sense to me.) Hybrid: Plasma/Rail are both the same in EVE, but they generally fare worse against armor than shield. Projectile: the most equally balanced amongst the tank types - but has a SLIGHT tendency towards Armor. Main drawback of this ammo is the short optimal, and is a lot more "random" at applying damage at range. Missiles: Used more or less equally by all races(gallente use Drones in place of missiles), their ammo types are single damage type, and are the only weapons with travel time. To carry this into DUST, IDEALLY Projectile would take Rail's damage profile, and Rail would join Hybrid, OR since Rails might behave differently in atmosphere than space- keep its current profile and give Projectile the -5% +5%, although i personally found no problem with -5% +10%, just that the weapons needed to follow EVE in terms of range. Technically has a longer range than Plasma Hybrid, but comparatively to the other races' ranges, is very, VERY short - however it has a VERY long Effective. Example numbers: AR Optimal 35 Effective 60, CR Optimal 38 or 40 Effective 90-120, SCR Optimal 50 Effective 75-80, RR Optimal 60 Effective 140. However, I do not propose this happen, as it would throw off many variables i do not know, nor do I care enough to go through and change each one. General John Ripper -BAM! I'm Emeril Lagasse. This message was approved by the 'Nobody Loved You' Foundation
Lynn Beck Fooly Cooly. 2106	Posted - 2014.09.26 01:53:00 - [14] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: We don't have specialized ammo; you're mostly shooting titanium or carbonized lead right now. Also for the game's sake it brings advantages to shield tanking. Earlier today won against a gal sentinel because my shields held out longer than his armor did and I murdered the ever loving crap out of that armor. It brings shield tanking into being valid again because... why? Against ARs it melts, against Rail Rifles it melts, against SCRs it's nonexistent, against Shotguns you might as well be running a Sentinel to get 1 more shot of life out of that suit, against Snipers you're only fooling yourself if you think shield tanking will be ideal against them, I fail to see any single weapon that TRUELY manages to be disadvantaged against shields, even ones that are SUPPOSED to be(cough rail rifle). All other weapons with "major" differences in their damage types carry HUGE increases in performance than others: MD has splash range and moderately high alpha, SCR/LR/ScrP have headshot modifiers, or insane amounts of damage/heat increase, Rail weapons gain huge range and alpha damage, Plasma weaponry (most of them at least) either do so much alpha that shields are irrelevant(or total HP for that matter), or they have a high enough DPS/mag empty time that they're not ever disadvantaged against shield tankers. But my CR/ACR has the lowest damage/mag out of all rifles, has the shortest mag empty time, and now suffers HORRIBLY against shields. Oh, and the DPS, range, headshot modifiers, and any other "special" ability that this thing could have are removed, because the CR WAS OP, but: Just like the Flaylock, it must now live in mediocrity or "support" weapon status for the next 3 years or until CCP shuts off DUST. Remember when the Flaylock was first introduced? people cried RIVERS of tears and had that thing ripped to pieces within the month, and every time I(or another Minmatar/rocket pistol enthusiast) said "dude, we can't have a useless gun, PLEASE do something to make it usable" everyone says Quote: Naaaaah man, We can't bring that back to its' previous OPness. And here we are again. CR is now a finisher weapon, with no cool feature to it other than "looks like Scar, make dakka", and when i say "hey guys, this isnt' a general use rifle, this is a support weapon now." you all say Quote: Naaaaah man, We can't bring that back to its' previous OPness. So thanks, you all hate Minmatar to the point where you want the CR to be a Minmatar Commando's SIDEARM, but then will cry more rivers of tears to make your Sniper Rifle or Ion Pistol "beastmode/viable" General John Ripper -BAM! I'm Emeril Lagasse. This message was approved by the 'Nobody Loved You' Foundation
castba Merc-0107 597	Posted - 2014.09.26 02:26:00 - [15] - Quote Lynn Beck wrote: With lasers, they have the single HIGHEST DPS ratings, SCR can psuedo-alpha strike my 900 HP minassault, SCP can 1 hit headshot me, and Laser Rifle can melt ANY suit within an overheat, so their ONLY disadvantage, if that's what you call it, is against 1300 armor sents. aSCR is more of an accurate comparison to the aCR which was your example. 1300 armour hp sentinel is painful to take down with the aSCR. Other suits are not as bad, but when there are 800 armour assaults running around... Besides a cal heavy, can you name another suit that is tough to take down with either the aCR or the CR? "When everything is OP, nothing is" - CCP Ratatti
Maken Tosch Dust University Ivy League 9547	Posted - 2014.09.26 02:47:00 - [16] - Quote hfderrtgvcd wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: The whole idea is to make the game interesting between armor and shield meta game play; instead of having one shoe ignores all. ffs dude, its an fps not a real time strategy game. If I shoot at someone they should die. Damage profiles should give slight advantages, not completely tilt a fight into someone's favor because of the suit they're wearing. I'm actually ok with letting the suit be a factor among many on who wins in a fire fight. You might disagree with it, but you and I have no choice to agree to disagree. Eve Online may have only minor differences in damage dealt to shield or armor, but you have to consider that Eve Online is a spaceship MMO that utilizes point-to-point mechanics where all turrets are automatically aimed for you, obstructions are non-existent, and the deciding factor between two ships fighting is your ship's transverse velocity, max speed, effective range, profile, damage resistance between the two ships, and fitting for the situation. Dust relies on players manually aiming their guns in a game that has a ton of obstructions and the battlefield is mostly 2 dimensional for infantry. The determining factors between two mercs fighting each other are the dropsuit size, weapon types used, fitting for the situation, profiles, obstructions, and EHP. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Crimson Cerberes Hammer Of Light Vanguard of the Phoenix 593	Posted - 2014.09.26 03:15:00 - [17] - Quote Hey look it is lynn, if memory serves, you can ignore 100% of what this person says about balance. No seriously. There will never be a time when a minmatar weapon is good enough, or an amarr weapon is bad enough for lynn, guaranteed. Just look at his/her arguments already, as if the CR is not the premier PC rifle and has been since it's introduction. "We are not ever going to respec weaponry and dropsuit command because the majority of our Aurum gear falls within those
Lynn Beck Fooly Cooly. 2107	Posted - 2014.09.26 06:27:00 - [18] - Quote Haha, look my fans have gathered around! Do you seriously think you're going to make me upset or something at your comment? "Aww boohoo! Someone on the internet who's a nobody doesn't like me, i think i'll go kill myself now" You wish, buddy. General John Ripper -BAM! I'm Emeril Lagasse. This message was approved by the 'Nobody Loved You' Foundation
Lynn Beck Fooly Cooly. 2107	Posted - 2014.09.26 06:29:00 - [19] - Quote castba wrote: Lynn Beck wrote: With lasers, they have the single HIGHEST DPS ratings, SCR can psuedo-alpha strike my 900 HP minassault, SCP can 1 hit headshot me, and Laser Rifle can melt ANY suit within an overheat, so their ONLY disadvantage, if that's what you call it, is against 1300 armor sents. aSCR is more of an accurate comparison to the aCR which was your example. 1300 armour hp sentinel is painful to take down with the aSCR. Other suits are not as bad, but when there are 800 armour assaults running around... Besides a cal heavy, can you name another suit that is tough to take down with either the aCR or the CR? Calscout, Calassault, Galscouts who twintank, Anything with over 300 shields, anything out past 50m or so, anything with a RR, anything with a Bolt Pistol, anything with a SCR(when i'm in a 270/450 Min Assault) And any heavy except Min. General John Ripper -BAM! I'm Emeril Lagasse. This message was approved by the 'Nobody Loved You' Foundation
zzZaXxx Vengeance Unbound 587	Posted - 2014.09.26 06:51:00 - [20] - Quote Lynn Beck wrote: CCP: Bravo on the previous patches, you've actually made me reinstall, and play 1-3 matches a day, congratulations on that. However, you're seriously making me HATE being a Minmatar: on the projectile profile update- WHY did you make it Psuedo Explosive?! Against a STANDARD calsent using a Six Kin ACR on a MK.0 Commando, WITH Prof 2 or 3, it took me THREE clips to drop his shields, and he stood there, pelleting me with 40m HMG. Using my SMG: i like it, although it struggles WAY too much against shield, EVEN Galscout's 90 shields seems to take 6-8 shots to clear(SK9M Breach with Prof 3), which is ridiculous considering it's ripping apart my 448/369 HP before i even drop his shields. In terms of my Flaylock: Bravo again, i haven't checked numbers, but i got 4 splash kills on severely wounded targets using it. Everything else Minmatar though, is absolutely completely **** now(unless you're a heathen and carry Fluxes, or use Imperial things -shudder-) In terms of a Sidearm my ACR is pretty fine n dandy Well for one thing the fact that this may be bringing Calsents out of hiding is a big positive. We'll have to see but my view for now is this: armor has been king for a while, and that means you may find some standard Calsents but very few proto, whereas proto amarr sentinals are quite common. People will keep running them and Galsent because a) they skilled into them and b) BARs and TARs are also a threat now. Have you had the pleasure yet of popping from behind cover with your ACR and drilling down an Amarr sent? It's a beautiful thing. ACR rips through armor like butter now. Also Delta will bring a lot of Gal Assaults out. They'll be dangerous to Min Assault/Commando, but we'll be just as dangerous to them, and more mobile. Same goes for Amarr. For Minassault I'd say stick and move, wittle down shields and then come out to brawl when they're into armor. For the slow Commando, consider the plasma cannon. It shoots fast and straight now. The one shot clip is a non factor because you're just taking your one shot to take down their shields and change and then go to work with CR. Capiche?

zzZaXxx Vengeance Unbound 587	Posted - 2014.09.26 06:56:00 - [21] - Quote Cpt McReady wrote: Lynn Beck wrote: As for a proposal/request: Can we PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THINGS KITTEN, change Projectile to -5%/+5%, as that follows the EVElopedia which states: goes to copy/paste This complete abandonment of EVE's design in favor of "wahh wahh CR eat shield, must break CR, OH, CR eat armor? MAKE IT SO!" agree JIRA: NO
zzZaXxx Vengeance Unbound 587	Posted - 2014.09.26 07:23:00 - [22] - Quote Lynn Beck wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: We don't have specialized ammo; you're mostly shooting titanium or carbonized lead right now. Also for the game's sake it brings advantages to shield tanking. Earlier today won against a gal sentinel because my shields held out longer than his armor did and I murdered the ever loving crap out of that armor. It brings shield tanking into being valid again because... why? Against ARs it melts, against Rail Rifles it melts, against SCRs it's nonexistent, against Shotguns you might as well be running a Sentinel to get 1 more shot of life out of that suit, against Snipers you're only fooling yourself if you think shield tanking will be ideal against them, I fail to see any single weapon that TRUELY manages to be disadvantaged against shields, even ones that are SUPPOSED to be(cough rail rifle). All other weapons with "major" differences in their damage types carry HUGE increases in performance than others: MD has splash range and moderately high alpha, SCR/LR/ScrP have headshot modifiers, or insane amounts of damage/heat increase, Rail weapons gain huge range and alpha damage, Plasma weaponry (most of them at least) either do so much alpha that shields are irrelevant(or total HP for that matter), or they have a high enough DPS/mag empty time that they're not ever disadvantaged against shield tankers. But my CR/ACR has the lowest damage/mag out of all rifles, has the shortest mag empty time, and now suffers HORRIBLY against shields. Oh, and the DPS, range, headshot modifiers, and any other "special" ability that this thing could have are removed, because the CR WAS OP, but: Just like the Flaylock, it must now live in mediocrity or "support" weapon status for the next 3 years or until CCP shuts off DUST. Remember when the Flaylock was first introduced? people cried RIVERS of tears and had that thing ripped to pieces within the month, and every time I(or another Minmatar/rocket pistol enthusiast) said "dude, we can't have a useless gun, PLEASE do something to make it usable" everyone says Quote: Naaaaah man, We can't bring that back to its' previous OPness. And here we are again. CR is now a finisher weapon, with no cool feature to it other than "looks like Scar, make dakka", and when i say "hey guys, this isnt' a general use rifle, this is a support weapon now." you all say Quote: Naaaaah man, We can't bring that back to its' previous OPness. So thanks, you all hate Minmatar to the point where you want the CR to be a Minmatar Commando's SIDEARM, but then will cry more rivers of tears to make your Sniper Rifle or Ion Pistol "beastmode/viable" Breath. Calm down a bit bro. Give it a week. You/we need to learn the new meta. I respect what you're saying and you have a point. -10% shields/+5% armor is a major shift to what CR/ACR/SMG do, and it is a bit of a nerf, but a bit of a nerf is balanced. Projectile isn't just a finisher now. It's The Finisher. If their shields are up they have a chance, but when shields are down we will destroy anything in front of us. That puts us at more of a disadvantage when exchanging fire at range. Don't even think about trading with Cal Assault rail rifles at long range now. Avoid any such situation because if the RR doesn't get you the TAR or ScR will. It's all about the Min Assault mobility. I can run almost non stop for an entire match. That means if a flank is flankable...I'll be flanking it. And that means that by the time we're squaring off I've either torn down your shields in one surprise hit or I've been ducking and weaving through cover and whittled them down. Either way you're into armor and if you show yourself for 1.5 seconds my CR will EAT you. And if it's not working out I can run away and then own your face from cover when you give chase. And what are you saying about damage and headshot multipliers being removed? CR has undergone no change but dmg profile. ACR has new dmg profile + does 4% more dmg but has more dispersion now. No other changes.
Lynn Beck Fooly Cooly. 2107	Posted - 2014.09.26 07:33:00 - [23] - Quote zzZaXxx wrote: -snip- So you're saying then, for my Swarm launcher Minmando(which I skilled into knowing would be a huge want in PC(lol)) That i should use something utterly NOT bonused, then? I'd be better off with an AR or RR then, correct? As for shield tanking now becoming viable because the least effective non Rail/Explosive weapon got it's anti shield capability nerfed is... how? SCRs still nullify shields completely. GARs make shield tankers wish they were either Tanks or Armor tanked, while Rail Rifles(which are penalized against Shield) still manage to chew through it in CQC/Range/Med, and yet when a CR/SMG suddenly gets nerfed to make "Shields more viable" then... what, exactly? I'm still going to play, sure, but i'm probably not going to enjoy it, I'll simply play with my 9 other weapons, and possibly delete all minmatar gear that isn't Flaylock/Breach SMG from my fits. Hello shotgun/SMG, on a Min Assault. I guess what i'm trying to say is, A/CR is genuinely disadvantaged now, and gains little to nothing for it, compared to a SCR which gains Headshot, Charge, and Range for... "ooh, that 800 armor took me 1 extra shot to kill than shields" Maybe 3/4, but still hardly a "hard counter". General John Ripper -BAM! I'm Emeril Lagasse. This message was approved by the 'Nobody Loved You' Foundation
zzZaXxx Vengeance Unbound 588	Posted - 2014.09.26 07:46:00 - [24] - Quote Meh. At this point you need to back up what you're saying with some examples, illustrations, etc.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3185	Posted - 2014.09.26 08:00:00 - [25] - Quote For those quoting EVE you're doing it wrong. Minmatar primary damage is explosive (armor busting) but with selectable ammo for sepecific things. Amarr primary laser damage is EM/Thermal: shield destroyer weapons. Crap vs. Armor tank. Gallente is thermal/kinetic. Balanced against both with a slight edge over shields. Caldari prever kinetic/thermal. Balanced with slight edge over armor.
Cpt McReady Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 64	Posted - 2014.09.26 08:13:00 - [26] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: minmatar primary weapons deal partially explosive damage but with selectable ammo that let them deal largely other damage types to punch through defenses. fixed.
Lynn Beck Fooly Cooly. 2107	Posted - 2014.09.26 09:05:00 - [27] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: For those quoting EVE you're doing it wrong. Minmatar primary damage is explosive (armor busting) but with selectable ammo for sepecific things. Amarr primary laser damage is EM/Thermal: shield destroyer weapons. Crap vs. Armor tank. Gallente is thermal/kinetic. Balanced against both with a slight edge over shields. Caldari prever kinetic/thermal. Balanced with slight edge over armor. Projectiles universally deal Kinetic, while Explosive is a sub-damage type, usually higher than their main damage, but still a sub damage. Lasers also come with Conflagration- an Explosive crystal. Sooo yeah. General John Ripper -BAM! I'm Emeril Lagasse. This message was approved by the 'Nobody Loved You' Foundation
castba Merc-0107 599	Posted - 2014.09.26 09:16:00 - [28] - Quote Lynn Beck wrote: castba wrote: Lynn Beck wrote: With lasers, they have the single HIGHEST DPS ratings, SCR can psuedo-alpha strike my 900 HP minassault, SCP can 1 hit headshot me, and Laser Rifle can melt ANY suit within an overheat, so their ONLY disadvantage, if that's what you call it, is against 1300 armor sents. aSCR is more of an accurate comparison to the aCR which was your example. 1300 armour hp sentinel is painful to take down with the aSCR. Other suits are not as bad, but when there are 800 armour assaults running around... Besides a cal heavy, can you name another suit that is tough to take down with either the aCR or the CR? Calscout, Calassault, Galscouts who twintank, Anything with over 300 shields, anything out past 50m or so, anything with a RR, anything with a Bolt Pistol, anything with a SCR(when i'm in a 270/450 Min Assault) And any heavy except Min. Wasn't sure if you were serious... ... Now I know you are just trolling. "When everything is OP, nothing is" - CCP Ratatti
Malleus Malificorum Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 99	Posted - 2014.09.26 09:24:00 - [29] - Quote Lynn Beck wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: For those quoting EVE you're doing it wrong. Minmatar primary damage is explosive (armor busting) but with selectable ammo for sepecific things. Amarr primary laser damage is EM/Thermal: shield destroyer weapons. Crap vs. Armor tank. Gallente is thermal/kinetic. Balanced against both with a slight edge over shields. Caldari prever kinetic/thermal. Balanced with slight edge over armor. Projectiles universally deal Kinetic, while Explosive is a sub-damage type, usually higher than their main damage, but still a sub damage. Lasers also come with Conflagration- an Explosive crystal. Sooo yeah. But that's **ing wrong idiot. https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Conflagration_S Conflag: Range -50% 7.7:7.7 EM:THERMAL 15.4 damage Exactly 50% em / therm. I'd really appreciate it if you stopped trying to pull references from eve, as it's clear with even the most cursory knowledge you don't have a goddamn *ing clue what you're talking about. No laser crystal does anything other than EM or Therm (in varying amounts). No hybrid charge does anything other than kinetic or thermal in varying amounts. As far as 'projectiles doing kinetic' yes, they do some* kinetic on every charge - however the best damage:range charges have EXTREME AMOUNTS OF EXPLOSIVE DAMAGE. Specialist rounds (therm/em/kin) tend to lose either a lot of damage, a lot of range or have other very nasty penalties associated with them in comparison to the explosive rounds. You're spouting all of these things and I doubt you've ever even played eve, nor are you even resorting to google to factcheck your information. Weep not poor children, For life is this way, Murdering beauty and passion.
Malleus Malificorum Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 99	Posted - 2014.09.26 21:15:00 - [30] - Quote I hope you see that conflag doesn't actually do explosive. Weep not poor children, For life is this way, Murdering beauty and passion.

Lynn Beck Fooly Cooly. 2111	Posted - 2014.09.27 01:14:00 - [31] - Quote Malleus Malificorum wrote: Lynn Beck wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: For those quoting EVE you're doing it wrong. Minmatar primary damage is explosive (armor busting) but with selectable ammo for sepecific things. Amarr primary laser damage is EM/Thermal: shield destroyer weapons. Crap vs. Armor tank. Gallente is thermal/kinetic. Balanced against both with a slight edge over shields. Caldari prever kinetic/thermal. Balanced with slight edge over armor. Projectiles universally deal Kinetic, while Explosive is a sub-damage type, usually higher than their main damage, but still a sub damage. Lasers also come with Conflagration- an Explosive crystal. Sooo yeah. But that's **ing wrong idiot. https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Conflagration_S Conflag: Range -50% 7.7:7.7 EM:THERMAL 15.4 damage Exactly 50% em / therm. I'd really appreciate it if you stopped trying to pull references from eve, as it's clear with even the most cursory knowledge you don't have a goddamn *ing clue what you're talking about. No laser crystal does anything other than EM or Therm (in varying amounts). No hybrid charge does anything other than kinetic or thermal in varying amounts. As far as 'projectiles doing kinetic' yes, they do some* kinetic on every charge - however the best damage:range charges have EXTREME AMOUNTS OF EXPLOSIVE DAMAGE. Specialist rounds (therm/em/kin) tend to lose either a lot of damage, a lot of range or have other very nasty penalties associated with them in comparison to the explosive rounds. You're spouting all of these things and I doubt you've ever even played eve, nor are you even resorting to google to factcheck your information. My bad, i meant Scorch. My point was that Lasers had Explosive damage. General John Ripper -BAM! I'm Emeril Lagasse. This message was approved by the 'Nobody Loved You' Foundation
Malleus Malificorum Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 99	Posted - 2014.09.27 03:44:00 - [32] - Quote Lynn Beck wrote: Malleus Malificorum wrote: Lynn Beck wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: For those quoting EVE you're doing it wrong. Minmatar primary damage is explosive (armor busting) but with selectable ammo for sepecific things. Amarr primary laser damage is EM/Thermal: shield destroyer weapons. Crap vs. Armor tank. Gallente is thermal/kinetic. Balanced against both with a slight edge over shields. Caldari prever kinetic/thermal. Balanced with slight edge over armor. Projectiles universally deal Kinetic, while Explosive is a sub-damage type, usually higher than their main damage, but still a sub damage. Lasers also come with Conflagration- an Explosive crystal. Sooo yeah. But that's **ing wrong idiot. https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Conflagration_S Conflag: Range -50% 7.7:7.7 EM:THERMAL 15.4 damage Exactly 50% em / therm. I'd really appreciate it if you stopped trying to pull references from eve, as it's clear with even the most cursory knowledge you don't have a goddamn *ing clue what you're talking about. No laser crystal does anything other than EM or Therm (in varying amounts). No hybrid charge does anything other than kinetic or thermal in varying amounts. As far as 'projectiles doing kinetic' yes, they do some* kinetic on every charge - however the best damage:range charges have EXTREME AMOUNTS OF EXPLOSIVE DAMAGE. Specialist rounds (therm/em/kin) tend to lose either a lot of damage, a lot of range or have other very nasty penalties associated with them in comparison to the explosive rounds. You're spouting all of these things and I doubt you've ever even played eve, nor are you even resorting to google to factcheck your information. My bad, i meant Scorch. My point was that Lasers had Explosive damage. STILL WRONG ****HEAD. Absolutely ZERO laser crystals do anything other than thermal or em in varying amounts. https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Scorch_S You were linked to a place where you could have checked this. Lasers do not do explosive damage. EVER. Weep not poor children, For life is this way, Murdering beauty and passion.
Lynn Beck Fooly Cooly. 2111	Posted - 2014.09.27 04:31:00 - [33] - Quote Malleus Malificorum wrote: Lynn Beck wrote: Malleus Malificorum wrote: Lynn Beck wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: For those quoting EVE you're doing it wrong. Minmatar primary damage is explosive (armor busting) but with selectable ammo for sepecific things. Amarr primary laser damage is EM/Thermal: shield destroyer weapons. Crap vs. Armor tank. Gallente is thermal/kinetic. Balanced against both with a slight edge over shields. Caldari prever kinetic/thermal. Balanced with slight edge over armor. Projectiles universally deal Kinetic, while Explosive is a sub-damage type, usually higher than their main damage, but still a sub damage. Lasers also come with Conflagration- an Explosive crystal. Sooo yeah. But that's **ing wrong idiot. https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Conflagration_S Conflag: Range -50% 7.7:7.7 EM:THERMAL 15.4 damage Exactly 50% em / therm. I'd really appreciate it if you stopped trying to pull references from eve, as it's clear with even the most cursory knowledge you don't have a goddamn *ing clue what you're talking about. No laser crystal does anything other than EM or Therm (in varying amounts). No hybrid charge does anything other than kinetic or thermal in varying amounts. As far as 'projectiles doing kinetic' yes, they do some* kinetic on every charge - however the best damage:range charges have EXTREME AMOUNTS OF EXPLOSIVE DAMAGE. Specialist rounds (therm/em/kin) tend to lose either a lot of damage, a lot of range or have other very nasty penalties associated with them in comparison to the explosive rounds. You're spouting all of these things and I doubt you've ever even played eve, nor are you even resorting to google to factcheck your information. My bad, i meant Scorch. My point was that Lasers had Explosive damage. STILL WRONG ****HEAD. Absolutely ZERO laser crystals do anything other than thermal or em in varying amounts. https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Scorch_S You were linked to a place where you could have checked this. Lasers do not do explosive damage. EVER. Getting upset at a person having information wrong, excellent. I could've sworn there was a laser crystal that had Explosive, and i'm not even sure how that came up. General John Ripper -BAM! I'm Emeril Lagasse. This message was approved by the 'Nobody Loved You' Foundation
Malleus Malificorum Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 100	Posted - 2014.09.27 05:04:00 - [34] - Quote You're trying to claim that your information was correct when A) it wasn't and it was referenced that it wasn't and B) you couldn't be bothered to even check this information and C) YOU WERE TRYING TO CONSTRUCT AN ARGUMENT BASED OFF OF THIS INCORRECT INFORMATION. So yes, I'm allowed to be mad when you're basing your arguments off of fallacies and incorrect information. Weep not poor children, For life is this way, Murdering beauty and passion.
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1555	Posted - 2014.09.27 06:30:00 - [35] - Quote Lynn Beck wrote: Against a STANDARD calsent using a Six Kin ACR on a MK.0 Commando, WITH Prof 2 or 3, it took me THREE clips to drop his shields, and he stood there, pelleting me with 40m HMG. You should probably go back into retirement. lol
Kaze Eyrou Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 675	Posted - 2014.09.27 16:23:00 - [36] - Quote Lynn Beck wrote: As for a proposal/request: Can we PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THINGS KITTEN, change Projectile to -5%/+5%, as that follows the EVElopedia which states: goes to copy/paste taken from HERE: Quote: Projectile ammunition always does some amount of kinetic damage, as well as one or more other types depending on the ammo. Projectile ammunition can cover a wide range of damage types and uses, so you can select something to use for general situations, or you can tailor your choice to certain damage types. This complete abandonment of EVE's design in favor of "wahh wahh CR eat shield, must break CR, OH, CR eat armor? MAKE IT SO!" Actually, I made a thread about it somewhere in General, let me look... Closed Beta Vet // Logi Bro // @KazeEyrou
Heimdallr69 Nyain San General Tso's Alliance 3723	Posted - 2014.09.27 16:26:00 - [37] - Quote Lynn Beck wrote: As for a proposal/request: Can we PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THINGS KITTEN, change Projectile to -5%/+5%, as that follows the EVElopedia which states: goes to copy/paste taken from HERE: Quote: Projectile ammunition always does some amount of kinetic damage, as well as one or more other types depending on the ammo. Projectile ammunition can cover a wide range of damage types and uses, so you can select something to use for general situations, or you can tailor your choice to certain damage types. This complete abandonment of EVE's design in favor of "wahh wahh CR eat shield, must break CR, OH, CR eat armor? MAKE IT SO!" Do it for the ASCR too then. The weapon that's been 20/-20 since being created, in an armor infested game. Now you know why I stopped using the ASCR and it can only shoot 51 bullets before overheating on amarr lvl 5. Removed inappropriate content - CCP Logibro


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