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Hotfix Delta - Flaylock Review

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CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 7982	Posted - 2014.09.25 11:49:00 - [1] - Quote Dear Flaylockers, what are your first thoughts on the Flaylock. Overall, most of the feedback about the improved sidearms has been good, but neutrat at best for the Flaylock. Some swear by it, but others feel the buff wasn't enough. Quick comments? We will look at the data tomorrow and plan the Known Issues reaction plan. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3140	Posted - 2014.09.25 11:55:00 - [2] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Dear Flaylockers, what are your first thoughts on the Flaylock. Overall, most of the feedback about the improved sidearms has been good, but neutrat at best for the Flaylock. Some swear by it, but others feel the buff wasn't enough. Quick comments? We will look at the data tomorrow and plan the Known Issues reaction plan. Haven't even had a chance to test it yet. Will do so even though all my sidearm skills are a joke.
BL4CKST4R La Muerte Eterna Dark Taboo 3117	Posted - 2014.09.25 12:09:00 - [3] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Dear Flaylockers, what are your first thoughts on the Flaylock. Overall, most of the feedback about the improved sidearms has been good, but neutrat at best for the Flaylock. Some swear by it, but others feel the buff wasn't enough. Quick comments? We will look at the data tomorrow and plan the Known Issues reaction plan. I like it when used with my AR, splash radius could be a drop higher like 1.6M nothing more. I honestly only use it for splash because it delivers a deadly blow to strafers and landing a shot on them is not easy, it is good for dealing with heavies but because of their explosive resistance most of my damage is nullified. I honestly don't see a purpose to the headshot damage because of the arc but it's nice that's it's there. It could also use 1 more shot in the clip just one. Damage and splash damage is pretty good. supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
MEDICO RITARDATO Dead Man's Game 286	Posted - 2014.09.25 12:23:00 - [4] - Quote NeedS a little more splash radius, like 1.80 CCP why do you hate shield?
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 16679	Posted - 2014.09.25 12:39:00 - [5] - Quote Specialist Variant Magazine Ammo needs to be bumped up to 3 from 2. So far its a great anti armor finisher but something I wouldn't open with as a heavy user with the flaylock. Against fast moving targets from a slow moving shooter it performs rather poorly. Flay locks best engagement range is about 10-20 meters below and they're just too fast to track and you run the risk of hurting yourself. As a previous flaylock user the temptation ious urge to go for foot shots is far to strong when I know i should be going for body shots. The improve projectile speed looks to be learnable though so I will need additional time to get used to it to see if I can sync it with target movement and get more body shots directly. As an ambushing weapon its nearly lethal as you can dump the entire magazine and kill most folks before they start to respond. Splash seems fair for a side arm. Fitting was no issue for me but I have been told it has been an issue for new players and starter fits. Need to investigate. CPM 1 Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior \\= Prototype Sniper Rifles =// Unlocked
BlazeXYZ xCosmic Voidx Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 236	Posted - 2014.09.25 12:44:00 - [6] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Dear Flaylockers, what are your first thoughts on the Flaylock. Overall, most of the feedback about the improved sidearms has been good, but neutrat at best for the Flaylock. Some swear by it, but others feel the buff wasn't enough. Quick comments? We will look at the data tomorrow and plan the Known Issues reaction plan. It's not that good when they jump and that's why I still rely on my smg as a finisher. How about normalizing the blast radius to 1.75. Is blast radius ground radius The Blazing Intellect Machine
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 5206	Posted - 2014.09.25 13:32:00 - [7] - Quote I believe that RoF is still too low. It doesn't turn out sufficient ooomph fast enough to finish off heavies. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Chief-Shotty WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 257	Posted - 2014.09.25 13:34:00 - [8] - Quote I was hoping to use the direct damage more but i find it nigh impossible in overall combat. Unless, the target is stationary or extremely predictable for whatever reason. I seem to rely on the splash more than i was hoping for. Also, i don't sense a faster projectile or maybe its a laggy firing animation. Other sidearms are able to kill full health suits (SMG / BoltPisotl / ScrPistol ) but i feel the FP is only good as a finisher in mid-engagements when your primary runs out. Can't use when fighting uphill and in 1v1 unless that target is weak (you'll get out dps'd while you try ankle shooting) Needs Improvement - May need one or more adjustments 1.) A Faster Projectile Speed (Ease of direct shots) If not this route then use 2 (but not both) 2.) More Overall damage (splash-general use. direct-greater reward for hitting dead on-target) 3.) Maybe a RoF increase? 4.) Perhaps a reticule change (its kind of hard to determine impact point especially since the rounds drops over distance It can be kind of misleading until you figure it out but something on the table. The positives 1) Splash normalization is great. I can still get targets within the splash with all tiercide models 2) Fitting cost is ok ( I don't have problems with it at least) 3) The weapon is usable. I have in fact got some sweet kills (just other sidearms do more) Other than that, I've found some use of the weapon(a certain situational weapon but not a go-to weapon). Its a very niche role but i still think it lacks performance vs other delta sidearms. 9/10 i find myself fitting an SMG for a more reliable backup. I'll continue to test 8-Time New Eden Mass Driver Champion Min Commando Combat Rifle and Mass Driver = FUN and Tears OMG the Tears!! :)
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 3390	Posted - 2014.09.25 13:42:00 - [9] - Quote Is there any way to have a flaylock's reticle be like a mini-mass driver? That might help accouting for projectile drop. He imposes order on the chaos of organic evolution...
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4358	Posted - 2014.09.25 14:08:00 - [10] - Quote In 5 matches I was killed once by a Flaylock Pistol, which is probably the first time I have been killed by one in months. I have been killed a lot by Militia Magsec SMGGÇÖs and Militia Bolt Pistols. It seems a lot of people are experimenting. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.

Lonewolf Heavy Chaotic Company 129	Posted - 2014.09.25 14:19:00 - [11] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: Is there any way to have a flaylock's reticle be like a mini-mass driver? That might help accouting for projectile drop. I think this idea is probably the best way to make it easier to use the flaylock, just scale the mass driver reticle to work for the drop on the flaylock. I loved the damage on it for Heavy vs Heavy combat. Right as a my HMG runs out of ammo I pull it out and nail the other heavy to get the kill. The splash/blast is pretty nice to have again and it doesn't feel OP like it used to be. The increase to projectile speed helps a ton when fighting lighter targets. My only complaint is that it is pretty hard to use when there is even a little lag. Overall, great way to get they flaylock back on its feet! Blueberries are delicious and an essential part of my diet ;) Commando/Heavy Willing to PC for anyone for a low price
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1846	Posted - 2014.09.25 15:24:00 - [12] - Quote I am liking the FL in its current incarnation. I haven't really had enough time with it to suggest changes though. Now with more evil.
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 2245	Posted - 2014.09.25 15:46:00 - [13] - Quote It's working, but it leaves me wanting to fit an smg again, tbh. Splash is ok and projectile velocity is good, damage seems good as a finisher but weak if opponent is close to full EHP. The main buff the Flaylok needs is to RoF, given its other limitations when the Flaylok gets unholstered in a firefight it means the situation is desperate, i'm with Adipem Nothi on this one. Ripley's suggestion re the reticule would be a welcome improvement and give the weapon a slightly expanded role without buffing other balancing stats and also would require some practice/skill to make work. Testing today I fit the specialist GN-20 because of fitting requirements and learned the hard way that it had a two shot clip. Never again - that variant is dead to me now. If i can't fit the Flaylok in lieu of a SMG i prolly won't use it. The SMG reliably puts more damage on target in more situations, and is much better at getting a merc out of a bad spot. PSN: RationalSpark
Broonfondle Majikthies Dogs of War Gaming 1318	Posted - 2014.09.25 16:28:00 - [14] - Quote Still trying to get a good field for testing. - Please note I have not had a good chance for testing the proto pistol yet - So far I'd say the projectile speed increase is only barely noticeable and, well frankly, the range increase is redundant. Damage wise its not exactly spectacular but its more solid than before. I have to agree that the reduction of the clip for the specialist severely limits its use. Its more optimal to simply change out a mod for a outright better pistol that costs less. The splash is nice and focused but still has functionality to finish off an opponent that has been taken down to the bare minimum of health and then blast them out of cover. Otherwise it does at least allow the lower tiered pistols to be a little more reliable. In short I'd like more time. Its not a weapon you can just use independently so getting the best out of it still requires synergy with other weapons and equipment. One could argue that this is still its greatest weakness but that's the damage model. "The air smells damp and oppressive, like a wet nun" "Why am I talking to a lightbulb? Illuminate me"
Crimson ShieId Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 927	Posted - 2014.09.25 16:58:00 - [15] - Quote It's at least better, but just as before, the weapon isn't competitive in the least. It has less damage output than the other pistols, shorter ranges than the Bolt Pistol, less ammo than even a Breach Scrambler Pistol, and the projectile drop combined with the speed makes it almost impossible to hit a strafing target unless you aim for the legs. It's certainly viable as a sidearm at this point, but unlike all the other sidearms, it's not something that can really be relied upon for anything beyond a few chuckles. Still better than the Burst ScP though... Nova Knives are best sidearm.
Syeven Reed Sebiestor Field Sappers 881	Posted - 2014.09.25 20:09:00 - [16] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Dear Flaylockers, what are your first thoughts on the Flaylock. Overall, most of the feedback about the improved sidearms has been good, but neutrat at best for the Flaylock. Some swear by it, but others feel the buff wasn't enough. Quick comments? We will look at the data tomorrow and plan the Known Issues reaction plan. Ive used it a few times with a fail-fit since delta. The faster projectile works really well but the splash could benefit from being a little bigger. My main bug though is that it now costs PWG, I had fits where it complimented because of that unique feature. Word Crimes EvE - 21 Day Buddy Trial
PLAYSTTION GamersForChrist 213	Posted - 2014.09.25 20:40:00 - [17] - Quote Damage is good but you can't hit people very easily. an increased splash radius by 0.10m-0.50m would make it easy to score hits. 44/4 in a BPO Scout (1.8) 40/5 in a Proto Assault(1.7) 35/0 in a Proto Heavy(1.8) Open Beta Vet-30mil sp R.I.P Dust514
Lightning35 Delta514 48TH SPECIAL OPERATIONS FORCE 91	Posted - 2014.09.25 21:42:00 - [18] - Quote Ok, so I'm you asked, and I'll answer. A tiny splash increase is needed. Ammo amount is good. Needs still a bit more damage buff but it's getting there. A bit quicker speed to teach target to. Other than that, it's good. Also I thought id metion, how about an assault version with 6 rounds, increased rof and splash radius at the cost of redused damage per round? 37 kills with nova knives
Zindorak 1.U.P 948	Posted - 2014.09.25 23:19:00 - [19] - Quote I hate having only 2 shots on the specialist Pokemon master! Death to all Swarm scrubs CCP please buff AScR and normal AR :(
Miokai Zahou WarRavens Capital Punishment. 393	Posted - 2014.09.26 00:46:00 - [20] - Quote There needs to be an increase to the splash damage radius to 1.8m as the rate of fire is still to low to make decent body shots. Also an increase damage bonus to direct hits should be considered as the low rate of fire makes it very hard to hit strafing and jumping targets. Fitting wise it's fine but then I'm already maxed out in the core skills but for a beginner it might be too much. Over all its ok at best and at worst mercs should use another side arm for more effectiveness and ease of use. Noob isn't really a status, it's the online equivalent of a 5-year old calling you a poopy fart head.

Ronan Elsword Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 296	Posted - 2014.09.26 01:13:00 - [21] - Quote As a finisher and a scout killer I've found it to be a useful sidearm as of late. Also great for run away nova knife victims. *Ode to the days before AA Hipfire was better than ads*
Justin Tymes Dem Durrty Boyz General Tso's Alliance 759	Posted - 2014.09.26 01:55:00 - [22] - Quote It's useless against jumpers or targets on stairs it needs a bit more splash. THe DPS is better but still fairly low mainly because of the shield extenders. Every other sidearm can get passed tanking disadvantage, the Flaylock flat-out can't. Which makes it more of a finisher if anything. You have to use another weapon or a Flux to get the most out of it. There are just better sidearms available. The Flaylock is too situational, and as of now, is strictly a Amarr Logi sidearm due to the low fitting cost.
zzZaXxx Vengeance Unbound 587	Posted - 2014.09.26 05:58:00 - [23] - Quote Haven't used it since the previous nerf but I do know that splash radius is the key factor. If it's too big it destroys EVERYTHING. (We know Core at 2m is too much.) However, if it's too small it can't hit anything consistently, unless you're so close that you're hitting yourself too, which is bad...very bad. The extra rocket in clip helps a lot I think by just giving you another try to land that alpha.That takes a little pressure off of splash radius to make things right. The increased damage just puts it where it needs to be: significant alpha that will make guys do the oh-sh*t-Flaylock! dance. But if that dance too often saves them due to inadequate splash then it will fade back into obscurity. 1.5 is minimum. I'm guessing 1.6 is as far as you could push it without sliding back into the bad old days. But let it ride for a bit I say.
zzZaXxx Vengeance Unbound 587	Posted - 2014.09.26 06:05:00 - [24] - Quote Justin Tymes wrote: It's useless against jumpers or targets on stairs it needs a bit more splash. THe DPS is better but still fairly low mainly because of the shield extenders. Every other sidearm can get passed tanking disadvantage, the Flaylock flat-out can't. Which makes it more of a finisher if anything. You have to use another weapon or a Flux to get the most out of it. There are just better sidearms available. The Flaylock is too situational, and as of now, is strictly a Amarr Logi sidearm due to the low fitting cost. Yes, situational. Like when you find you have a breach AR that tears shields off with a quickness in CQC and you'd love to blap that armor down quick before you have to reload. Or when you've one-shotted their shields with a shotgun and want to finish em off quick before they know whats goin on. It is situational, but situational is good. There are more flexible sidearms if that's what you want. It's good to have some that fit different situations perfectly.

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 8027	Posted - 2014.09.26 07:12:00 - [25] - Quote Boosting radius to 1.75, it's not performing as intended "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Broonfondle Majikthies Dogs of War Gaming 1319	Posted - 2014.09.26 07:25:00 - [26] - Quote I think the Flaylocks greatest weakness is actually the competition. Lets face it. We have a Bolt pistol that can 2 shot a lot of mid frames. That weapon is hitscan with and aim assist along with a weapon with great range and punch. Against that the Flaylock really needs something to reward the extra skill. I really don't want the splash increased however. It would feel wrong from a pistol. "The air smells damp and oppressive, like a wet nun" "Why am I talking to a lightbulb? Illuminate me"
zzZaXxx Vengeance Unbound 588	Posted - 2014.09.26 07:37:00 - [27] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Boosting radius to 1.75, it's not performing as intended Nice! Decisive action! I love it. Forget what I said. Actually just after a hotfix is the best time to go ahead and make follow up changes because things are already in flux. We haven't settled into a new meta that we would then get royally pissed about you screwing with. We're still figuring this one out. Tweak away with abandon during the chaos! Take it up to 1.75 and then keep it there or bring it down. It's all good. Much better to speed up the process and find balance more quickly. I hope you'll take the same approach with the rest of the changes.
zzZaXxx Vengeance Unbound 588	Posted - 2014.09.26 07:42:00 - [28] - Quote Along the lines of what I was just saying, it seems there are multiple other sidearms that could use some follow up tweaks while they're still in flux. i.e. Bolt Pistol, Breach and Burst Scrambler Pistols, Ion Pistol, Assault SMG
Zindorak 1.U.P 994	Posted - 2014.09.26 11:22:00 - [29] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Boosting radius to 1.75, it's not performing as intended Yes thank you Pokemon master! Death to all Swarm scrubs CCP please buff AScR and normal AR :(
BlazeXYZ xCosmic Voidx Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 246	Posted - 2014.09.26 13:01:00 - [30] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Boosting radius to 1.75, it's not performing as intended Thank you The Blazing Intellect Machine

sabre prime Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 566	Posted - 2014.09.26 13:03:00 - [31] - Quote In the hotfix delta spreadsheet, for the flaylock pistol it says "Projectile speed from x to Y". But what were the numbers for "x" and "y"? Anybody know? The slow blade penetrates the shield.
Egonz4 DARKSTAR ARMY 435	Posted - 2014.09.26 13:49:00 - [32] - Quote Ahem, I know yoa all have been waiting for my opinion (ok not really) so here it goes....I dont know yet. I played for the first time yesterday and wasnt that successful... mainly cuz I'm a bit rusty from playing desti y too much.... but I will say, boy its fun...with the extra shot added to it, it makes people panic and they just bunny hop.....will do an official review she. I know more. The master of the flaylock has spoken. Master of The Flaylock

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 8049	Posted - 2014.09.26 13:56:00 - [33] - Quote https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=176136&find=unread "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Chief-Shotty WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 262	Posted - 2014.09.26 15:24:00 - [34] - Quote Is it possible for a slight RoF increase? 8-Time New Eden Mass Driver Champion Min Commando Combat Rifle and Mass Driver = FUN and Tears OMG the Tears!! :)
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 2249	Posted - 2014.09.26 17:58:00 - [35] - Quote Broonfondle Majikthies wrote: I think the Flaylocks greatest weakness is actually the competition. Lets face it. We have a Bolt pistol that can 2 shot a lot of mid frames. That weapon is hitscan with and aim assist along with a weapon with great range and punch. Against that the Flaylock really needs something to reward the extra skill. I really don't want the splash increased however. It would feel wrong from a pistol. I was thinking the same thing. If this was the Dust of a year ago the buffs we just received to the Flaylok would have been fine but in the interim suits have gotten much stronger and the newer weapons were designed with those suits in mind. Face it, the Flaylok is a relic, just like this old minmatar fighter.... PSN: RationalSpark
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 2249	Posted - 2014.09.26 18:06:00 - [36] - Quote Chief-Shotty wrote: Is it possible for a slight RoF increase? Seconded. Weapon is a bit limited in terms of the situations where i would actually want to pull it out - from behind or if able to catch the target unawares, fine, but in a face to face with a ScP or bolt pistol i'd rather run away than face them with my Flaylok, tbh. Also, like Broonfondle Majikthies, feel that we have to keep the weapon's splash under control or the thing will become full of cheeze. The revision to 1.75m should be ok PSN: RationalSpark
Llast 326 An Arkhos 4627	Posted - 2014.09.26 18:26:00 - [37] - Quote Pretty happy with what has been done, good job. One note The Breach Bring the RoF up from 55 to 70(?) (I do not have a full handle on exactly how much that increases the rate, but I know it should be less than the Standard but more than it is) The increased missile speed coupled with no increase in RoF has made it so that you can't get the two shots off fast enough to be viable. A slight increase in the Breaches RoF would bring it in line with the other Flaylocks. Low splash is fine on the Breach, direct hits are great and I like this weapon that way. KRRROOOOOOM
Chief-Shotty WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 265	Posted - 2014.09.27 09:41:00 - [38] - Quote sabre prime wrote: In the hotfix delta spreadsheet, for the flaylock pistol it says "Projectile speed from x to Y". But what were the numbers for "x" and "y"? Anybody know? I think it was changed from x = 8000 <---- Old Projectile speed y = 9000 <---- Current Projectile speed That is all we know, still don't even know what that means. I don't really notice much of a difference to be honest. Given i didn't use the flaylock much pre-delta. I did occasionally for laughs though. 8-Time New Eden Mass Driver Champion Min Commando Combat Rifle and Mass Driver = FUN and Tears OMG the Tears!! :)
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3239	Posted - 2014.09.27 10:01:00 - [39] - Quote Hey rattati the flaylock shot speed is not visually faster. I am still having the same aiming issues. The projectile typically is useless versus a moving target past 10m and direct hits are incredibly difficult to lead properly. I had been hoping for a 25-50% speed boost so it wouldn't be so easy to dodge. The +1/8th isn't giving any perceivable advantage.
sabre prime Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 571	Posted - 2014.09.27 11:03:00 - [40] - Quote Chief-Shotty wrote: sabre prime wrote: In the hotfix delta spreadsheet, for the flaylock pistol it says "Projectile speed from x to Y". But what were the numbers for "x" and "y"? Anybody know? I think it was changed from x = 8000 <---- Old Projectile speed y = 9000 <---- Current Projectile speed That is all we know, still don't even know what that means. I don't really notice much of a difference to be honest. Given i didn't use the flaylock much pre-delta. I did occasionally for laughs though. Ah. Thanks for the clarification. But they are still two completely arbitrary number with no SI units attached. That's not science! Also, I would give you a like, but I can't see my damn like button. The slow blade penetrates the shield.

bogeyman m Minmatar Republic 419	Posted - 2014.09.27 16:21:00 - [41] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: Is there any way to have a flaylock's reticle be like a mini-mass driver? That might help accouting for projectile drop. This. Duct tape 2.0 ... Have WD-40; will travel.
Viktor Hadah Jr Negative-Impact Gentlemen's.Club 5180	Posted - 2014.09.28 06:17:00 - [42] - Quote I've been playing with the militia flaylock practicing for the event it is okay at being able to kill people, but it is sh*t when you compare it to other sidearms ability to kill. i can get in the 20's on good games with mlt flaylock but with the mlt ion or bolt i can easily get 30+ EVE 21 Day Trial
Chief-Shotty WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 294	Posted - 2014.10.06 06:08:00 - [43] - Quote Well i don't want to see this thread die so a quick bump here. Although we are amidst the sidearm challenge i feel the other pistols still easily nudge out the flaylock in ability in direct combat or just sidearms in general. The biggest gripe that i would like to see fixed for hot fix echo is a reticule change..I believe a more accurate targeting reticule may solve problems estimating range and drop. I believe the community will back the a 'mini' version of the mass driver reticule will fit right in with the flaylock's mission. I also still recommend a faster projectile and perhaps a damage boost as well. I just not sure if it should be splash or direct damage. I would like more direct damage with a faster projectile... 8-Time New Eden Mass Driver Champion Min Commando Combat Rifle and Mass Driver = FUN and Tears OMG the Tears!! :)
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3411	Posted - 2014.10.06 07:42:00 - [44] - Quote Projectile is too slow still. Applying the damage is still a pain in the ass.
Kaeru Nayiri Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 77	Posted - 2014.10.06 19:52:00 - [45] - Quote I used to use the Breach Scrambler Pistol as my secondary weapon, main weapon being Nova Knives. Due to PG constraints and new PG values, I dusted off some flaylocks I had lying around that I hadn't used in a long time. Wow, this is my old new favourite sidearm. I really really love the flaylock in this iteration. I realize others may have good ideas on how to make it better, but I just want to say, in my very-anecdotal-opinion, I really love it. I am even considering the Breach variant for headshots on immobile targets (people hacking, using a LAV turret, etc).


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